[tom mckinney]

Originally Posted by The Moore-hen

Yes he is! Sorry Tom..must have been thinking of Magnus Magnusson...

I'm always confusing them as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEbJhLoD7DQ

[Xenospiza]

Originally Posted by The Moore-hen

Well said Loundbirder! I think you make many valid points - few had the bottle to contradict the pied piper..why is this? When we are talking experts we are talking Lars Svensson, Magnus Robb, Dick Forsman etc (note the lack of British!) - these people know their birds...

Just check who co-wrote that article on the Green Warbler complex in Dutch Birding.
Why do they keep quiet — aren't they consulted, or don't they want to get sucked in? I guess it is easier to comment on birds in the UK when you don't have to deal with some of the people in real life...

[username]

Originally Posted by Xenospiza

Just check who co-wrote that article on the Green Warbler complex in Dutch Birding.
Why do they keep quiet — aren't they consulted, or don't they want to get sucked in? I guess it is easier to comment on birds in the UK when you don't have to deal with some of the people in real life...

'Some' reasons why 'they' keep quiet..

'they' don't want to endure trial and potential ridicule on tinternet..
'they' are unwilling to put their 'reps' on the line...
'they' genuinely don't like publicity..

'they' really can't be arsed with it all?.....

[Ilya Maclean]

Cheers for the all the nice comments folks. Just glad it’s all over (bar the possible western Turkish Green Warbler that looks & sounds like a Greenish hypothesis). Now I can get back to birding the patch in peace;-)

Hope the Autumn still turns up one or two other goodies...

I'm sure I’ll bump in to a few of you if your ever down this way. Give me a shout if you are.

Cheers

Ilya

[TringBirder]

Originally Posted by Gastronaut

It isn't as simple as that Roy. Some people saw it when it wasn't tucked away under the canopy of all those sycamores and was showing in good light, down to 20m, low down in the bare branches of a willow against a dark background. This is when it was seen to have an extensive yellow wash that wasn't apparent when it was in the shade and not just an artefact of sunlight through foliage. This is what Martin Elliott's sketch was based on and why it looked different to what Ilya saw, he'd already left by then. John Martin's photo has the front of the bird in shade and the rear end overexposed. This is a fair representation of the conditions in which most people saw it, but as was reported on the first two days, the bird looked rather different when it was out in the open to when it was in amonst foliage.
Still, it did call like a Greenish so if that's the be all and end all then it's case solved.

Hi Gastronaut
I wasn't really saying it was simple, sorry if you thought that, just that some people to fail to consider or realise the impact that reflection off foliage and lighting conditions can have on a bird's appearence. It is interesting to note that one of Jim Lawrence's pics shows the bird in the open with little obvious yellow on the underparts whereas Josh Jones mentions obvious yellow throat. Conversely Martin's excellent painting is annotated with the fact that there was no yellow on the chin, centre of the throat or centre of the belly and a faint wash on the flanks. So it would seem that people are perceiving the same bird differently. I am not disputing the fact that the bird had yellow on the underparts merely pointing out that it doesn't seem to have strong lemon-yellow on most of the underparts as might reasonably be expected on a fresh 1st-winter Green Warbler. Of course terminology might be hampering this discussion. You yourself mention yellow wash. To me wash means a faint, insipid hint of colour, again not a rich, strong lemon-yellow colour as you would expect the colouration of a fresh Green Warbler's underparts to be.

Roy

[TringBirder]

P.S. I also looked at Martin's painting and that reinforced my view that it was not a Green Warbler.

Earlier people mentioned the lack of British experts and I just thought you are kidding me. They are out there it is just that they don't go about shouting the fact that they are experts and wasn't there a quote about a prophet not being recognised in their own land. I am not going to mention names but they are out there. You only have to look at the authors of some of the standard reference books Shorebirds etc to find some of them.

[marklhawkes]

Originally Posted by Ilya Maclean

Hope the Autumn still turns up one or two other goodies...

Ilya

After that Shrike and this Warbler, you must be crying out for something like a nice Black and White Warbler...... no expert opinions needed for those little humbugs

[hummerman]

A few posts back i made a tongue in cheek request,but no takers,so i'll try again,if say Ilya hadn't of procured his superb call recording,would a certain birders Gravitas"swayed more people to go and see the bird,i ask because who has final say on what we all accept as a Tick or not.or what allegiance to follow.

[marklhawkes]

The BBRC have final say about identification (in most birders eyes anyway)

[JoanT]

Originally Posted by Doctor Twitchings

Well LGRE is very experienced, and no doubt has seen plenty of Greenish Warblers, but if Magnus Robb thinks it's a Greenish based on the call you recorded this morning (bloody well done by the way), then it might be a tall order to get it accepted as a Green Warbler.

Look under entry for Tuesday 3 Nov 2009

http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/

Further comments from sound specialist and expert Magnus Robb

Joan

[The Moore-hen]

Originally Posted by TringBirder

P.S. I also looked at Martin's painting and that reinforced my view that it was not a Green Warbler.

Earlier people mentioned the lack of British experts and I just thought you are kidding me. They are out there it is just that they don't go about shouting the fact that they are experts and wasn't there a quote about a prophet not being recognised in their own land. I am not going to mention names but they are out there. You only have to look at the authors of some of the standard reference books Shorebirds etc to find some of them.

Sorry TringBirder i certainly wasn't trying to insinuate that there are no British experts, more the fact that the 'final say' on controversial rares in the UK usually comes from abroad (not talking acceptance here). A controversial bird is debated in detail on forums, with many opinions stated but then when a foreign expert has their say we are all happy (and 99% of the time they are right...ooops forgot the french bloke and that Minsmere Curlew ). Usually before all this the 'Messiah' has his say and his band of followers all agree...but as Monty Python would say 'He's not the Messiah...he's a very naughty boy....

[username]

Originally Posted by JoanT

Look under entry for Tuesday 3 Nov 2009

http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/

Further comments from sound specialist and expert Magnus Robb

Joan

Still not entirely happy is 'he'...? Think he's flogging a dead horse/warbler tho....!
Interesting this 'background' call he mentions of green apparently sounding like greenish...not sure what to make of that...but like i've said before..there may be the 'odd' variant' call..[as happens with many species]. Always interested in variant calls....

ps...i like these occasional chiffchaffs which i've observed in recent years that sing like willow warblers...all very strange]....!

[Jan Van den Broeck]

I have been following threads on rare bird alerts for some time just because I enjoy reading the human factor of this whole business. What would be nice is if the experts would give some info on these birds in opus. For example, I was trying to learn about Green Warbler but there is zero info on this very same website.
Jan

[Colin]

The degree of yellowness or lack of brought back to my faded memory something which happened when I was seawatching some years ago. Presumably this warbler has been described by what was seen by looking through optics.

I cannot remember the species involved but I vaguely remember it was a gull sp. which was variously described during this seawatch has having a slight yellowness to the white parts. Some said that there appeared to be a very very slight tinge of grey to it whereas others were adamant that there was a very slight hint of pinkness. Yet others said it was brilliant white. These various descriptions were attributed to the differing optics that the various observers were using. This could be an additional factor at work with this warbler in addition to the variable sun/shade/leaf dappling described in various posts. Just a thought, but I am not challenging the outcome of this identification.

[TringBirder]

Alan Lewis said earlier that all 73 (I think), of the calls uttered by this bird were the same disyllabic call typical of Greenish. The fact that there is a background call in Turkey resembling, therefore presumably not identical to, the Church Cove Greenish is hardly conclusive. From what others have said, and I have seen/heard from the recording, not one call uttered by this bird was diagnostic of Green. It is thought that Greenish should/could turn up in Turkey and a background bird may not have been seen by the person making the recording. Remember on plumage the Church Cove bird, as far as I and others can tell, has little if anything going for it as a Green. I have no doubt that worn breeding and post-breeding adult Green Warblers can be drab, but can fresh 1st-winter birds, and I am sure the Church Cove bird was a 1st-winter bird, be as washed-out as that on the underparts. One of the big pro-Green features was the supercilium, but it appears that even that reached the forehead - it shouldn't on Green.

[lewis20126]

Originally Posted by TringBirder

Alan Lewis said earlier that all 73 (I think), of the calls uttered by this bird were the same disyllabic call typical of Greenish.

Tringbirder

This is the case and it is one cut - happy to email the file to anyone interested before 8am 2moro (PM me your email) but it is 10MB. Away now until early december so late requests may have to wait.

There has been some good discussion above and on the S**fbirds thread but IMO the bird was a relatively bog standard Greenish. I've plenty of both spp (spring and winter in the case of nitidus)

Cheers, alan

[TringBirder]

Alan,

Thanks for confirming the bit about calls. Since it looked and called like a Greenish the fact that Green Warbler possibly has a similar call makes no real difference - it really was a Greenish.

Roy

[Steve Dunn]

Originally Posted by Loundbirder

Hi Ilya.
Your reporting of this bird was first class mate. In fact it was mainly due to your information and your total conviction in what you had seen, that I decided not to go for this bird and save myself a £100 petrol bill.

Del.

Originally Posted by Loundbirder

Despite advice to the contrary from Ilya, and the guys at Birdnet. I went very early Saturday morning for a 320 mile drive to west cornwall.
No one to blame but myself really, as I really should have known better.

LB

Ermmm, So did you go or not Del??