MKIII - refuses to focus!!

[spike38]

Hi There all MkIII users is always use the 300 2.8 L with either a 1.4 or the 2x tele on. The problem is that occassonaly it refuses to focus at all and the green light just flashes in the view finder. You have to physically manually focus it near the focus distance and its pops in!, FRUSTRATING!!!!

Does anyone else have this issue.

PS. I always use AF always.

Thanks in advance

[GYRob]

Have you loaded FW 1.1.3 that stops a lot of that - also the limit switch being set right makes a diffrence.
Rob.

[spike38]

Hi yes i did, and since then have had other focus related issues, such as the focus floats in and out on static subject using AI. even tried Rob Galbraiths -1 focus adjustment.
in a burst on a static object first one will be spot on then a couple of soft ones then perhaps 2 sharp one ect. I appreciate that AI isn't really for static subjects but it should still perform a lot better than this!

read yesterday on DP review that one guys was having so much trouble he was going to revert back to 1.1.2, it may well be that 1.1.3 doesn't work too hot with the faulty sub mirror, so will wait until they fix that as well

Also which limit switch were you refering to?

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mike

[GYRob]

The distance switch on the len's - often if this is set from closest to infinity the lens may strugle if it gets out of focus and carn't find enough contrast to regain focus .
Iv never trusted A1SERVO on Any camera to give good results on a static subject .
I will take the shot say if a bird lands rather than miss it changing setting's but then go to 1 shot to try to nail it properly.
Rob.
eddit i dont think there is a 1.1.2 has he got a mk3 ?
1.1.8then 1.1.1 Now 1.1.3 and 1.1.4 is said to be out maby next week.

[IanC_UK]

1.1.2 is the firmware released to a very few pro's in Tokyo (i think it was Tokyo anyway) for a sporting event, it was never released to general public.

[Harold Stiver]

I agree with GYRob, this sounds like a limiting switch problem. The limiting switch is on the barrel of the lens and typically adjusts for two or three distances to guide the lens as to where you wish to focus. One of the choices is "x" to infinity, so look for the infinity symbol and you'll know you have the right switch. It should be in your documentation as well.

[spike38]

Hi Guys now i know which switch you were refereng to
yes its set from 6m to infi most of the time. i thought you were refereing to a
CF in menu set III. I experienced my problem again at the weekend when i was
was out with a very experience canon user, who was at a loss as well. He though it may have been a faulty tele unit so next time we go out i will use his to see i can replicate the problem, yes you were right about the 1.1.2 it was only released as a beta vesion so it may be back to 1.1.1, The canon guy i just mentioned has got so sick of his MKIII that he has sold all his canon gear and bough a Nikon D200 and D3, whick he swears has a greater dynamic range and better ISO proformance than any of the canon line up, Time and the results will tell. thanks for all you advise.

lets hope that 1.1.4 will be a little more stable

[GYRob]

well good luck with it.
side note - Most are haveing great results with 1.1.3 either on a submirrow fixed one or not.
Rob.

[spike38]

Thanks rob i will relook at my custom function set III to see if there is a problem their.
It's not that it does produce the goods its just a little irratic. much better than the
5D i sold to get it anyway. Just sometime when there's some action its a little slow off the mark.

[IanC_UK]

Have a read through this, it may help :)

http://www.usa.canon.com/uploadedimages/FCK/Image/2007/MARK%20III%20Suggested%20Settings%20121207/EOS1D_1DsMark_IIIoptimizingAFsettings_Final.pdf

[paul goode]

Just a thought, have you tried enabling and disabling C.fn III-5 to see if that makes any difference

Paul

[spike38]

I will try your suggestions and keep you posted

[chinny]

Spike any update?

[spike38]

Spike any update?

Tried with the suggestions posted here but not too much luck
even tried downloading the 1dMkIII CF settings as suggested by canon (90% of mine were spot on), However its is going in
on Monday to get the sub mirrow fix and should be back by next Thursday
so i'm hopeing that has something to do with it, will keep you posted and let you know how it goes and if there is an improvement overall.

Like i said earlier i even got a fellow photographer who used this cam for 10 months to use it for an hour while we were out last week and he said he thought it was very sluggish in response, compared to his. I will get the contacts of the lens cleaned this weekend as well to see it this has any improvement.

I will post next week after i have had a chance to test it, i will get my friend to test it also and let you know what he thinks as well

Spike

[NickRno77]

Just a thought, have you tried enabling and disabling C.fn III-5 to see if that makes any difference

Paul

C.fn III-5 should be set to 0, Roy Howell had the same problem with his 40D and 300mm f/2.8 when he had set to 1 by mistake I think?

Have a read here:-

http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/Technique/1DIII_guide/1diii_guide.html Les explains this CF very well.

Spike, I would also advise you set all your C.fn III back to defaults, there is no way your MKIII should be sluggish especially acquiring AF.

[RoyH]

Spike38
Yes Nick is right, check Auto focus/Drive . C.Fn III -1 think this was off its now On works fine with my 40d / 300f2.8.
Roy.

[spike38]

cheers guys will check it when the can comes back on Thursday

from memory i think that CFIII 5 is set to 1, will try it on 1 when it comes back

[NickRno77]

cheers guys will check it when the can comes back on Thursday

from memory i think that CFIII 5 is set to 1, will try it on 1 when it comes back

Spike, I think you should be on C.Fn III-5-0 which is default. Below is explanation of C.Fn III-5

Will camera try to force itself to focus if AF point suddenly sees totally out-of-focus subject?
If tracking a moving subject and the AF point suddenly loses that subject (for example, it now appears on a very distant
background, or an extremely close foreground subject), the camera’s out-of-the-box behavior is to try to re-focus on the
new subject after a brief period of time. (As described earlier, C.Fn III-2 dictates how quickly this happens.) However,
this can also be influenced by the following:

C.Fn III-5-0 — camera will try to re-focus on a new, totally out-of-focus subject; lens will “hunt” if necessary
C.Fn III-5-1 — “hunting” is restricted; if a new subject is totally out-of-focus, the camera won’t try to search to focus on it
Some nature photographers who shoot birds in flight, and similar subjects, report that this Custom Function
improves the performance and consistency of their in-flight shots. If they’re tracking one or more birds, and
the active AF point momentarily loses the bird and sees the sky in the background, the system won’t try to
force the camera to re-focus on the blank sky. This can dramatically speed-up the process of re-focusing
on the subject they were originally tracking.

[spike38]

Thanks nik will try that out this weekend, that may improve things for me
just gitten the camera back from getting the sub mirror fixed won't know how it performs until the weekend hopefully this will solve my AI problems as well
A work of warning for user sending in for the fix forgot to back-up all my CF's and
they have been reset all to factory defaults, so back them up first.
I will keep you posted on the fix and let you know if t has helped

many thanks Spike

[NickRno77]

Thanks nik will try that out this weekend, that may improve things for me
just gitten the camera back from getting the sub mirror fixed won't know how it performs until the weekend hopefully this will solve my AI problems as well
A work of warning for user sending in for the fix forgot to back-up all my CF's and
they have been reset all to factory defaults, so back them up first.
I will keep you posted on the fix and let you know if t has helped

many thanks Spike

Spike, Look forward seeing how you get on, not such a bad thing setting the CF's back to default especially AF custom functions, I would advise you leave AF CF's as default for a while and see how you get on, I change nothing, I have not needed to calibrate any of my lenses either.

News is that Canon Europe are giving 1 year warranty from day of mirror fix;)

Cheers

[spike38]

Hi nick

You are right Canon is giving a one year warrenty extresion from the date of the fix
and i also got a complimentary 2gig CF card as well.

Early indications are that the one shot is sharper than it was origionaly which i though was ok, haven't tried the AF in AI yet may get a chance tomorrow, I am helping a friend out later shooting a wedding so i may have a better idea how it performs later
will keep you posted.

many thanks Spike

[spike38]

Well the cam is back fro CPS had a chance to test it in The Canary islands for a weeks in quite hot temps, Its a lot better than it was focus frops out occassionally but not as
bad as before. One observation: When i was shooting at 10FPS i seemed to get more keepers that were in focus, perhaps the lens doesn't have time to readjust as much as with 5FPS?, Anyway happy up to now any one interested in some of the pics can take a look here, thanks for all the feedback from forum members there experience has helped no end

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8468554@N03

Spike

[GYRob]

Well the cam is back fro CPS had a chance to test it in The Canary islands for a weeks in quite hot temps, Its a lot better than it was focus frops out occassionally but not as
bad as before. One observation: When i was shooting at 10FPS i seemed to get more keepers that were in focus, perhaps the lens doesn't have time to readjust as much as with 5FPS?, Anyway happy up to now any one interested in some of the pics can take a look here, thanks for all the feedback from forum members there experience has helped no end

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8468554@N03

Spike
Now thats very odd as it should be more accurate at 5fps as the digi 3 processor has more time to get the ajustment right .
I have mine set to 6fps and although iv only done 1 test it seemd better than 10fps.
but pleased your happeyier with it.
Rob.

[paul goode]

I finally got round to trying my replacement mkIII out on the local black headed gulls in similar light to when I'd used my first mkIII.
The results were very encouraging, no problems tracking the gull I was focussing on even with other gulls in front and behind and trees and cars for a backdrop. I was also impressed that following a single bird against a background of trees using all focus points the results were good.
This was all at 10fps with CF III-2 set to the slowest setting. Moving it from there I think speeded up the initial focus acquisition but meant in the chaos of having about 6 gulls in shot at one time the focus would move off the target bird too quickly
Comparing results to my 1st mkIII shows a much higher keeper rate especially considering I was shooting against the noisiest backgrounds I could find.

Paul

[NickRno77]

Well the cam is back fro CPS had a chance to test it in The Canary islands for a weeks in quite hot temps, Its a lot better than it was focus frops out occassionally but not as
bad as before. One observation: When i was shooting at 10FPS i seemed to get more keepers that were in focus, perhaps the lens doesn't have time to readjust as much as with 5FPS?, Anyway happy up to now any one interested in some of the pics can take a look here, thanks for all the feedback from forum members there experience has helped no end

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8468554@N03

Spike
Spike,

Good to here the MKIII is better, like the eagle shot

fuerteventura 24 1 0318-Edit

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8468554@N03/2223061921/

:t:

[pierre le suisse]

well good luck with it.
side note - Most are haveing great results with 1.1.3 either on a submirrow fixed one or not.
Rob.
I am not sure thats he case, many on the eos forum think the fix and the firmware update have not corrected the focussing problems with this camera. Also Rob Galbraith is unconvinced by the fix.

[GYRob]

I am not sure thats he case, many on the eos forum think the fix and the firmware update have not corrected the focussing problems with this camera. Also Rob Galbraith is unconvinced by the fix.
At the time i wrote that things were looking good and even my own short test made me think my mk3 was performing better however over the last 3 days iv given my mk3 far more test's and now im sure the fix has not fully worked and sometimes it just refuses to focus on what should be an easy subject.
Rob.

[Photovisions]

Hi Rob and all
Bit late to this thread, but I am not clear on which are the best settings. I have read widely on the net and also spoken to a few MkIII owners and guess what - there is widely conflicting information!

My stance is that for normal shots, just leave the camera in default settings. Birds in flight represent a different scenario and I have found that C. FnIII when set to focus search off (1), improves focus of BIF. If you have it set to 0, and then a BIF drifts off your focus point, the camera starts to hunt up and down the focus travel leaving you hopelessly out of focus.

However, you musn't leave it set a 1 for normal shots, because it does seem to confuse the camera if you are trying to focus something when it is already way out of focus.

Do you agree with this? I have just bought a 1Ds MkIII and am still learning. Im still not sure on what speed to put the tracking sensitivity on for BIF after trying both ends of the spectrum. I will test it on a moving car (its good fun doing this as they all slow down!!) to see how many keepers I get.

Adrian

[spike38]

At the time i wrote that things were looking good and even my own short test made me think my mk3 was performing better however over the last 3 days iv given my mk3 far more test's and now im sure the fix has not fully worked and sometimes it just refuses to focus on what should be an easy subject.
Rob.

Hi Rob

I'm not saying that its fixed, but, like i said its much better than it was before. I still have my share of OOF pics but not as many. Coming from a 5D which was hopeless at tracking BIF. I have not used any other 1d bodies so i don't have a benchmark to compair it against. Yes i agree after reading several forums since i came back that the consesus seems to imply that the fix didn't work, however it seems to have improved mine from what it was, so that a bonus as it was hopeless. I don't think that we are never going to get to the bottom of this unless Canon come completly clean (which they won't).

My guess is that they will be working on update model to replace it soon and hope that this sorry state of affairs will get swept under the mat!

Will it loose customers?, perhaps, but a lot of people have so much money tied up in the lens' that i doubt it. The biggest problem we all face in the future is getting a good second-hand price, no one want a camera that doesn't function correctly.

All we can do is wait in urnest for the next Firmware update and hope that it helps improve things a lot more. Didn't they use the same focusing unit in the 1dsmkIII?, does this have any problems?

many thanks for the Posts Spike

[GYRob]

Hi Adrian
i agree with your cfn 3 setting, as for tracking speed THIS really depends on IF the camera will get a good focus on the bird in the first place if it does either will produce good tracking, in my tests often switching between fast and slow to see which gave the best result's it was almost inposible to say one way or another ( this was on gulls in flight ) many times slow worked and many times it didn't And it was the same when on Fast .
Now on lots of shots i knew i was spot on with the focus point yet the camera just did nothing unless i kept pumping the shutter button Not ideal when holding a 500f4.
So this ment i did not get a good focus lock to start with so on slow tracking this would be the worst setting when the shutter is held half pressed as it takes ages for the camera to try to get focus or try to refocus -at least on fast it gives you time to try to get focus as you know earlyier that Nothing is happerning .
im going to try the other tracking speed's but in all honesty as sometimes it wont focus to start with i can see me sending it back yet again.
Rob.
Rob

[GYRob]

Hi Spike
i too think it is a little better but the fix has not worked the way it should have .
Many Non birders will never know or find a problem as in lots of shooting it does not show up .
I think this is why many were/are happy with the fix even i was untill last weeks proper testing.
Rob.

[Photovisions]

Rob

If you have C.FnIII 5 set to focus search off, then it will be difficult to lock on a BIF if focus is initially way out. I have tended to focus on something distant before locking onto a bird, so that my focus is nearly there to begin with.

I still have to work out what the best tracking speed and I believe the setting is much different from the MkII models, perhaps where some people have gone wrong with the newer MkIII models.

The Canon paper suggests C. Fn III-2 set to moderately slow, C.Fn III 5 to 1 for fast action in bright daylight (set 1) which I assume is most appropriate for BIF. This however, will mess with non action shots and needs to be changed accordingly. Good fun if you are shooting a BIF and then notice a rare bird on a perch that will stay for only a few seconds!

Lastly, what are you using for focus points, C. Fn 8? Canon suggest 0 or 1.

Adrian


Hi Adrian
i agree with your cfn 3 setting, as for tracking speed THIS really depends on IF the camera will get a good focus on the bird in the first place if it does either will produce good tracking, in my tests often switching between fast and slow to see which gave the best result's it was almost inposible to say one way or another ( this was on gulls in flight ) many times slow worked and many times it didn't And it was the same when on Fast .
Now on lots of shots i knew i was spot on with the focus point yet the camera just did nothing unless i kept pumping the shutter button Not ideal when holding a 500f4.
So this ment i did not get a good focus lock to start with so on slow tracking this would be the worst setting when the shutter is held half pressed as it takes ages for the camera to try to get focus or try to refocus -at least on fast it gives you time to try to get focus as you know earlyier that Nothing is happerning .
im going to try the other tracking speed's but in all honesty as sometimes it wont focus to start with i can see me sending it back yet again.
Rob.
Rob

[GYRob]

Rob

If you have C.FnIII 5 set to focus search off, then it will be difficult to lock on a BIF if focus is initially way out. I have tended to focus on something distant before locking onto a bird, so that my focus is nearly there to begin with.

I still have to work out what the best tracking speed and I believe the setting is much different from the MkII models, perhaps where some people have gone wrong with the newer MkIII models.

The Canon paper suggests C. Fn III-2 set to moderately slow, C.Fn III 5 to 1 for fast action in bright daylight (set 1) which I assume is most appropriate for BIF. This however, will mess with non action shots and needs to be changed accordingly. Good fun if you are shooting a BIF and then notice a rare bird on a perch that will stay for only a few seconds!

Lastly, what are you using for focus points, C. Fn 8? Canon suggest 0 or 1.

Adrian
I do change them round a bit but this is my setup.
My cfn3 settings
1 = 0
2=fast
3=0
4=1
5=1
6=0
7=2
8=0 but ajust it now and then.
9=0
10=1 have mine set to single point.
11=0
12=2
13=1
14=0
15=0
16=6fps and 4 fps.
CFN 2 left at default.
the only one iv changed on CFN 1 is 11 i have it set to partial.
Rob

[Photovisions]

Hi Rob

My settings for BIF differ slightly.
I have C. FnIII 2 set to Medium slow
C. FnIII 8 -1 enable L&R shift points
C. FnIII 9 -1 inner 9
C. FnIII 10 -0

All others are the same. I had good success with BIF with these settings, but had to make sure I changed focus search on for other shots.

Adrian

I do change them round a bit but this is my setup.
My cfn3 settings
1 = 0
2=fast
3=0
4=1
5=1
6=0
7=2
8=0 but ajust it now and then.
9=0
10=1 have mine set to single point.
11=0
12=2
13=1
14=0
15=0
16=6fps and 4 fps.
CFN 2 left at default.
the only one iv changed on CFN 1 is 11 i have it set to partial.
Rob

[GYRob]

intresting and im going to go with you on cfn 3-2 i tried it today and found it to be better as long as you can get on the bird early enough in the first place Then the camera did not lose focus so quickly infact a momentery lose of the bird could be picked up again quite well .
the others are just prefrence but my next try is to set cfn 8-1 .
I have tried exspand to surrounding points but the camera has always shown just the centre point as being used when viewed in broswer.
Rob.

[paul goode]

Interesting this,

With my 1d mkIII and 500mm f4 with CFIII 2 set to +2 and CFIII 5 set to 1 the camera basically doesn't work. CFIII 5 more often than not stops the lens attempting to AF and if it does get a focus lock it loses it too quickly

I'm happy with CFIII 5 set to 0 and CFIIII 2 set to -2 unless its dull and there isn't much contrast when I use -1 or 0. As I said earlier in this thread I'm happier with my new mkIII compared to the 1st one but I suppose as I don't do my tests with a 300 f2.8 wide open my opinion will count for nowt ;)

[GYRob]

Interesting this,

With my 1d mkIII and 500mm f4 with CFIII 2 set to +2 and CFIII 5 set to 1 the camera basically doesn't work. CFIII 5 more often than not stops the lens attempting to AF and if it does get a focus lock it loses it too quickly

I'm happy with CFIII 5 set to 0 and CFIIII 2 set to -2 unless its dull and there isn't much contrast when I use -1 or 0. As I said earlier in this thread I'm happier with my new mkIII compared to the 1st one but I suppose as I don't do my tests with a 300 f2.8 wide open my opinion will count for nowt ;)

i see what your saying about cfn 5-1 but as i always pree focus at an aprox disdance its never been a problem for me useing 5-1
Rob.

[Photovisions]

Hi Paul

Interesting that you are happy with C. FnIII 5 set to 0, as I find with focus search on and if my focus point loses the BIF, then the camera focus goes hunting and I have lost several seconds. Now it may be that you have more expertise with keeping the focus point on the bird and I need to practice more, but for anything other than a slow flying bird, such as a heron, I find it very hard.

Adrian

Interesting this,

With my 1d mkIII and 500mm f4 with CFIII 2 set to +2 and CFIII 5 set to 1 the camera basically doesn't work. CFIII 5 more often than not stops the lens attempting to AF and if it does get a focus lock it loses it too quickly

I'm happy with CFIII 5 set to 0 and CFIIII 2 set to -2 unless its dull and there isn't much contrast when I use -1 or 0. As I said earlier in this thread I'm happier with my new mkIII compared to the 1st one but I suppose as I don't do my tests with a 300 f2.8 wide open my opinion will count for nowt ;)

[GYRob]

Hi Paul

Interesting that you are happy with C. FnIII 5 set to 0, as I find with focus search on and if my focus point loses the BIF, then the camera focus goes hunting and I have lost several seconds. Now it may be that you have more expertise with keeping the focus point on the bird and I need to practice more, but for anything other than a slow flying bird, such as a heron, I find it very hard.

Adrian

Yes same for me .btw when you have this set
enable L&R shift points have you ever seen any point other than centre being used when viewd in zoombrowser asuming you have centre as the main point.
Rob.

[Photovisions]

Yes same for me .btw when you have this set
enable L&R shift points have you ever seen any point other than centre being used when viewd in zoombrowser asuming you have centre as the main point.
Rob.

Hi Rob..

To be honest, I have not used zoombrowser to look at images, however, I have seen two points through the viewfinder.

I will do a test soon on how well C. FNIII 5 works by asking my son to run towards me and fire off a sequence of images. If he runs towards me, then achieving a good focus point should be easy.

Adrian

[paul goode]

Hi Paul

Now it may be that you have more expertise with keeping the focus point on the bird and I need to practice more, but for anything other than a slow flying bird, such as a heron, I find it very hard.

Adrian

PostcardCV can testify to the amount of swearing going on at Gigrin Farm which proves that tracking birds in flight isn't my strong point ;)
I just find it quicker when the lens has gone off to infinity to refocus on a tree or something than to wait for the af to start up again with cfIII -5 enabled. I haven't spent that much time working it out but even manually pre-focussing with my setup doesn't always restart the af.

Paul

[GYRob]

Opps lol FIX mk2 for the Mk3 http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9264
Rob.

[Photovisions]

I ran the test with my son running towards me. I used Al Servo, ISO 1600, 1/8000 sec, tracking speed low then high and C.FnIII 5 set to focus search off. I was pleased with the results and having C. Fn III-2 set to slow or high made little difference, although this really relates to how quickly focus is achieved once lost. Virtually all shots were in focus, except a couple where my son moved his arm across his chest and the focus latched onto that.

Rob - I wonder if Rob Galbraiths discussion also applies to the 1Ds MkIII?

Adrian

[GYRob]

I ran the test with my son running towards me. I used Al Servo, ISO 1600, 1/8000 sec, tracking speed low then high and C.FnIII 5 set to focus search off. I was pleased with the results and having C. Fn III-2 set to slow or high made little difference, although this really relates to how quickly focus is achieved once lost. Virtually all shots were in focus, except a couple where my son moved his arm across his chest and the focus latched onto that.

Rob - I wonder if Rob Galbraiths discussion also applies to the 1Ds MkIII?

Adrian
cfn-2 would not make a diffrence in this sort of shot.

i dont think RG comment's applies to the 1dsmk3 as it has a totally diffrent mirrow box set up and sensor as it's full frame so thoese parts are not the same also it does not have to reach 10fps either.
so if it had a problem even if the same it would be a seperate non connected fault.
Rob.

[GYRob]

it shows your focus was working well if it grabed his arm to so that's all good.
Rob.

[Photovisions]

Hi Rob

Yes, C. FnIII 2 is for how quickly focus attempts to regain when lost.
I agree that my focus seems to work well.
I asked about RG comments as although there are differences, there are also many similarities between 1D and 1Ds. Time will tell.
Adrian

[spike38]

Thanks for you CF sets and advice this will come in most use full
i see another fix is one that cards too, which is suppose to fix the root cause
of the problem. Should have waited to get the submirror fixed as now will have to go back in, but hopefully this time that will be it. I will check you sugesstion against my presets and let your know ]

Many thanks spike

[spike38]

I do change them round a bit but this is my setup.
My cfn3 settings
1 = 0
2=fast
3=0
4=1
5=1
6=0
7=2
8=0 but ajust it now and then.
9=0
10=1 have mine set to single point.
11=0
12=2
13=1
14=0
15=0
16=6fps and 4 fps.
CFN 2 left at default.
the only one iv changed on CFN 1 is 11 i have it set to partial.
Rob

Hi Rob
tweeked all my settings to your set as above out tomorrow will let you know how i get on

Spike

[GYRob]

Hi Rob
tweeked all my settings to your set as above out tomorrow will let you know how i get on

Spike
IV been playing and now have AF tracking set to moderatly slow it has given very good result's up to now, all others are the same
Rob.

[GYRob]

so how did you get on Spike ??
Rob.