Getting a mention in the bird report.

[cjay]

Are you one of these birders who are annoyed at the same initials appearing after rare birds in your county bird report? Well here are a few tips for getting your initials in.

Take a look at your county reports & see which birds get very little lines. Usually very common birds. Observe these birds in the field & try to find a plumage aberration ie Pied Blackbirds, leucistic Starlings etc all could make the pages of your report. Or look at unusual behaviour, which could make the press.
Another good one is earliest & latest dates of migrants. If you spend an inordinate amount of time birding. (Like me)Look hard for early spring migrants & really go out of your way in autumn to record the last ones of the year. Guaranteed to get some initials.

Also last dates rarities were seen. Usually worth a mention.
Exceptional numbers of birds like counting roosting flocks of Starlings, Black headed Gulls etc. Take a walk around your local park is there any Muscovy ducks. Many birders do not record these so you can be the only one & get your name in print. Feral pigeons are another good one & so are escapes. Look out for Budgies or falcons with jesses on. Last but not least, if you do attend a Twitch send in your description in that night. Many Twitchers leave it until the end of the year or the month before sending in their description. By getting yours in first you may not get the finders initials after yours but you will not be mentioned as et al.

Good birding

Colin J.

[cuddy]

Some good tips there Colin, i have had a few problems this year with my records committee and im beginning to feel like stopping sending in records.

One tip i might add if you are the finder state this on your record card, two of my finds were given to other birders who are more regular contributers but who did not find the birds.

[Stephen Dunstan]

As someone who helps write a report it always surprises me how many birds we can't 'find the finder' for. In recent years they have included good Lancs birds like Hoopoe and Richard's Pipit. This doesn't include cases where the finder doesn't submit but we know who they are and credit them anyway.

Stephen.

[Bluetail]

You've been reading Bill Oddie's "Little Black Bird Book", Colin!

Cuddy, I know exactly what you mean. As I've mentioned before I've had birds attributed to me which I didn't find (even though I always stated very clearly that I wasn't the finder). I assume that records committees think that observers will be offended if they're not credited for taking the trouble. Generally speaking, they may even be right - but, personally, I couldn't give a damn. I simply don't send supporting descriptions in now.

Jason

[cjay]

One always hears of problems with Rare bird committees I have had only one record chucked out in my time. It was an early Tree Pipit in March.

Our Suffolk report has a good article about how to submit records & what sort of description they are looking for. It just stops the stringers from getting in.

CJ

[logos]

Never been able to understand why reports include initials anyway, I thought such reports were about birds rather than people. The inclusion of initials just makes reports harder to read.

If you don't send a report in it remains just that, a report rather than a record. If a bird is not properly recorded you may as well not have seen it, except for your own selfish reasons of course.

Spud

[Michael Frankis]

Never been able to understand why reports include initials anyway, I thought such reports were about birds rather than people. The inclusion of initials just makes reports harder to read.
Hi Spud,

Because, when tested by vote, the majority of report contributors / bird club members want it. It may not be scientifically justifiable, but it is democratically justifiable. And (as far as I am concerned!) if contributors' vanity helps get more records submitted, so be it.

But woe betide the author/editor who puts down the wrong initials!

Michael

[logos]

I'd like to know when and how this lamentable trend began. Are records from someone vain enough to want to see their initials in print really that reliable I wonder?

Spud

[Stephen Dunstan]

Spud,

You make a fair point, but the BBRC do it so it is no surprise counties follow suit.

Several years ago Cumbria dropped all initials from reports for one year, it was reinstated for rarities after an outcry.

Stephen.

[Tim Allwood]

spot on Spud!

Some people don't want to be part of the 'scene' and if you don't play by the rules of the 'scene' you leave yourself open to criticism. We have a lot of birds in Norfolk supressed (see latest BBRC report) that I see no reason at all to doubt but people do (at a high level) just because no-one else has seen them.

One thing that has stopped me from sending in recs of good birds in the past is the fact that I don't want to see my initials after things - it seems to be an anally retentive game to me..although I have sent in this years rares. I don't twitch either so feel no guilt here.

As Spud says surely it's about the birds and not getting your cred up. After all in the grand scheme of thre world's birds and their conservation, who's seen what minor rarity in the U.K. is totally irrelevant.

[Bluetail]

After all in the grand scheme of thre world's birds and their conservation, who's seen what minor rarity in the U.K. is totally irrelevant.
Who remembers anyway? Who was it that added Yellow-throated Vireo to the British List? Grateful as I am, I'm blowed if I know. What proportion of the regular twitching community remembers, I wonder?

Jason

[Tim Allwood]

Andy Birch from memory Jason

sad or what!!!

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I think with the getting your name in bird reports for finding rarities, this probably is quite childish but I think it also motivates people to go out and find things and just get out in the field more generally. Then again, I suppose if the kudos of seeing your initials in print is a reflection of your ability to find and identify rare birds then perhaps, just to make it a really good test, they should put initials next to all the rejected records as well - just so we can all make as accurate an assessment as possible of someone's abilities. ;)

[Gerry Hooper]

I found a Whitethroat on Nov. 25 one year, it got in the reports, can't remember if my name was there or not.
I enjoy reading the reports for the various ways a birds sighting is written up. e.g.Was noted, appeared, peaked ,lingered,remained,reported, found,passed,was identified...
While sites attract,hold , claim,
Amazing how many ways there are of saying almost the same thing.

[Michael Frankis]

One thing that has stopped me from sending in recs of good birds in the past is the fact that I don't want to see my initials after things - it seems to be an anally retentive game to me.
Hi Tim,

I'm sure if you asked for anonymity in the BBRC report, or anywhere else, that would be granted no problem.

Michael

[Harry Hussey]

Hi all,
While I have no problem with my name appearing after a record that I was involved with finding and/or identifying(not that this is important:after all,in such a small birding community as we have here it's usually common knowledge who has found a given bird!),I would be deterred from submitting a description of a bird that I had seen but not found(even where the finder and/or identifier haven't submitted one).
There was a heated debate on the IBN a while back about "slip-streaming" i.e.finders of rarities taking offence at what they perceived to be attempts to claim false credit by individuals submitting their own descriptions of said rarities.The IRBC welcome as many descriptions of a given bird as is possible,as a feature may be apparent on the views obtained at a later date than that on which the bird is found,but this can lead to "bad blood" and ill-feeling,so is not worth the trouble?
I do think,however,that it is possible to get one's name withheld in such cases,in which case I would be more likely to submit such reports.Still feel bad about submitting a description of an Avocet that I didn't find and being the only observer to do so:my name really shouldn't be after that one....;)
Harry H

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Harry,

I've got a Black-winged Stilt to my name in British Birds (87: 521) that I didn't find, but was the only person to submit any notes from the day it was first found.

And I only submitted any notes myself because 'the crowd' were saying it was an adult, but I'd seen a whitish trailing edge on the secondaries when it flew, which (as far as I could tell) made it a first-summer, so I put notes in to give what I thought was the correct age.

Michael

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I got my name in for a White-rumped Sand, which I didn't find but the finder asked me to put in a description because he knew that I'd seen (and heard) certain features he hadn't. That seems to me to be a good way of organising things, although it probably works best in 'smaller' birding communities (this happened in Islay) where not many birders actually get to see the bird and they all know each other anyway.

[Jasonbirder]

Blimey....can`t believe i`ve missed this thread...beneath such an inocuous title lurks plenty of controversy!!

My thoughts for what they`re worth...

If you don't send a report in it remains just that, a report rather than a record. If a bird is not properly recorded you may as well not have seen it.

Mmm...why exactly? At risk of being shot down in flames, in my locality I never bother to submit anything to the county records commitee...Essentially its one clique of local birders who I don`t know or happen to bird with - thats no slur on their integrity or competancy or dedication, its just that they move in different circles have different agendas etc - If i find something I put the news out and anyone can come and see it - thats the point to me, not having it mentioned as a a figure in the middle of a dry systematic list lost in an obscure county report thats read once then filed away in a box for the next ten years!!

Never been able to understand why reports include initials anyway, I thought such reports were about birds rather than people

Thats a little bit dry isn`t it...I`ve always thought there were two elements to Birdwatching, the Bird being one the watching being the other!!! Which I suppose leads on to the fact that as birders we`ve all got a tendancy to be a little bit precious about ourselves! Birding at whatever level, UK or abroad is at heart an essentially trivial lesiure activity - it doesn`t really have any wider implications or benefits as long as we enjoy it fantastic but lets not kid ourselves about contributing to the sum of scientific knowledge or anything like that!

(I`m ducking for cover now!!) ;)

[logos]

I'm not sure why you're remotely interested in whether names go against records if you don't actually contribute any of your reports.

You don't sem to understand the fundamental difference between a report and a record.

When you've reached maturity perhaps things will become clearer.

Spud

[Jane Turner]

Thats a little bit dry isn`t it...I`ve always thought there were two elements to Birdwatching, the Bird being one the watching being the other!!! Which I suppose leads on to the fact that as birders we`ve all got a tendancy to be a little bit precious about ourselves! Birding at whatever level, UK or abroad is at heart an essentially trivial lesiure activity - it doesn`t really have any wider implications or benefits as long as we enjoy it fantastic but lets not kid ourselves about contributing to the sum of scientific knowledge or anything like that!

(I`m ducking for cover now!!) ;)

First Volley :)

It doesn't have to be trivial! Summitting your record.. and that's all records, not just rarities is just about the ONLY way the that birders can make a positive contribution. I don't know about your county Jason, but all birds submitted to Cheshire are painstakingly entered into a database so that the records can be recalled, trends spotted etc etc.

Better still if you can combine your birding activity with a BTO survey.

[Jasonbirder]

Oh dear, oh dear exactly how would you define my post as immature?

Was it

Not submitting reports to the county recorder?

* Perhaps when they accept reports by EMail, don`t work 2 years in arrears and don`t expect a full description for species as easy to ID as Short-eared Owl I`ll start!

Implying that county reports are less than vital in the great scheme of things?

* I`ve got hundreds of the bl**dy things i`m a sucker for buying them or aquiring them - but they mustly reside in storage boxes in my loft for all the use I get out of them!

Stating that Birding is as much about the observer as the bird?

* Well the philosphy of birding is a topic for another day, but you`d be a brave man to say that your observations are completely objective rather than somewhat subjective!!!

Or was it stating that birding is entirely trivial!!!

* Which of course it is - from something as worthy as a breeding bird census to as self-absorbed as driving to Kent to see a Desert Wheatear (that`ll be me tomorrow!) its just a hobby, a lesiure activity no more important than a round of golf or sitting in and watching Eastenders - its only value is what we as birders get out of it and nothing more - we`re not rebuilding Iraq or improving the NHS for christsakes!!!

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Jason,

We may not be rebuilding Iraq or the NHS, but birding records do contribute enormously to conservation - without the accumulated records published over the last 200 years or so, we would know nothing about the state our birds are in, nor how best to protect them and their environment. And that, I reckon, is more important than the state of the NHS.

Do please send your records in to your recorder!

Michael

[logos]

I rest my case.

Spud

[Jasonbirder]

No - there is big difference between immaturity and merely disagreeing with your opinion - feel free to point out what you consider to be immature and be careful to differentiate it from that which you merely consider incorrect!

[Harry Hussey]

Was it

Not submitting reports to the county recorder?

* Perhaps when they accept reports by EMail, don`t work 2 years in arrears and don`t expect a full description for species as easy to ID as Short-eared Owl I`ll start!

Implying that county reports are less than vital in the great scheme of things?

* I`ve got hundreds of the bl**dy things i`m a sucker for buying them or aquiring them - but they mustly reside in storage boxes in my loft for all the use I get out of them!

Since the Cork Bird Report folded back in the mid 90's,it has become apparent just how valuable a good county report is.As things stand,such occurrences as the increase in records of Common Buzzard in the county,the incredible Black Redstart inlux this spring,the rise and rise of Med.Gull,the decline in wintering Bewick's Swans etc will remain poorly documented,if at all.

Stating that Birding is as much about the observer as the bird?

* Well the philosphy of birding is a topic for another day, but you`d be a brave man to say that your observations are completely objective rather than somewhat subjective!!!

Following that argument,even the most stringent scientific data must be somewhat subjective,as it was collated by a human being!;)

Or was it stating that birding is entirely trivial!!!

* Which of course it is - from something as worthy as a breeding bird census to as self-absorbed as driving to Kent to see a Desert Wheatear (that`ll be me tomorrow!) its just a hobby, a lesiure activity no more important than a round of golf or sitting in and watching Eastenders - its only value is what we as birders get out of it and nothing more - we`re not rebuilding Iraq or improving the NHS for christsakes!!!

I wouldn't say that it's entirely trivial,especially the more "scientific" end such as breeding/wintering bird surveys etc,and even finding rare birds has some merit.Twitching is probably the most trivial form of birding(not knocking it,do more than my fair share myself!),but even this can raise the observer awareness of difficult identification issues,thus making further such discoveries more likely(I dare say that if I find myself in a position to go for an Isabelline Wheatear then the species will lose some of its fearsome reputation in terms of field identification,and the same could be said for Blyth's Pipit?).
I agree that such things as rebuilding Iraq and improving the NHS(or the health service over here,which also leaves a lot to be desired),along with many other activities,are more important,but birding is one of the few hobbies where amateurs can contribute something tangible(after all,if one plays a bit of weekend football it doesn't alter the balance of power in the Champions League!)
Good luck with the Desert Wheatear,wish one had reached us here(may do yet?)!
Harry H

[logos]

No - there is big difference between immaturity and merely disagreeing with your opinion - feel free to point out what you consider to be immature and be careful to differentiate it from that which you merely consider incorrect!

It requires a certain degree of maturity to be able to see the big picture as opposed to your own petty concerns.

Spud

[Jasonbirder]

But surely the point is that all of our concerns as birders are essentially petty concerns

As a birder I am fascinated by all things related to birds and bird records....but no doubt a keen Golfer is fascinated by the handicaps of the other players at his Golf club - it doesn`t make either of them important in a broader sense.

Data about birds is interesting to birders - but no-one else.

The data contributing to records is a facile argument - 99.99% of the time these records are for birders, by birders - of limited utility or relevence outside the community of birders.

It doesn`t diminish their interest, importance or relevence to us as birders but outside of it - its just trivia.

Take a landmark scholarly publication such as Sylvia Warblers or Pipits and Wagtails, that has taken years and years of observations, records, illustrations and photographs by a dedicated team of expert observers. They have contributed immensely to our knowledge of Taxonomy and Identification - but in a wider sense it they are of no more importance than the latest Geoffrey Archer novel - their only significance is that which we as Birders imbue them with!

Sorry!!!

[logos]

Data about birds is interesting to birders - but no-one else

I think you'll find that it's of interest to legislators who have sufficient breadth of vision to appreciate that such data can be used as an index of the health of the environment.

[Jasonbirder]

If our democratic representatives paid the slightest attention to the sort of Data that Birders produce our agricultural and fisheries policies would be vastly different to what they are currently.

As to any interest to the general public - bear in mind that "Foster" the escaped Vulture in East Anglia attracted more public and media interest than any bird related story I can remember in a long, long time!

[Michael Frankis]

If our democratic representatives paid the slightest attention to the sort of Data that Birders produce our agricultural and fisheries policies would be vastly different to what they are currently.Hi Jason,

They have done in the past, and will do eventually, though it does take time - and a lot of hard evidence - to convince them.

Without data from birders sounding early warnings, we'd still be spraying DDT, aldrin, dieldrin, etc, etc, etc, and using PCBs widely in industry, to the cost of both birds, and mankind.

Michael

[logos]

I take it then that you are unaware of thwe concept of the Environmental Impact Assessment. One of the first places that those responsible for developing such assessments look is in county bird reports.

As an aside, if the quality of the records in such reports was compromised by careless inclusion of unverified records od scarce species an opposition barrister would have a field day (excuse the pun) in court.

Spud

[Jasonbirder]

Not unaware of them....just unaware (unfortunately) of many instances where reccomendations are made and acted upon in favour of conservation related interests.

To get back to something less contentious though this:
if the quality of the records in such reports was compromised by careless inclusion of unverified records of scarce species an opposition barrister would have a field day

summoned up a wonderful image of Rumpole of the Bailey cross-examining some Barbour clad birder in court, as to whether he was sure he`d really noted all the relevent features of a Marsh Warbler and that it wasn`t just a common or garden Reed Warbler!!!

[Michael Frankis]

To get back to something less contentious though this:

summoned up a wonderful image of Rumpole of the Bailey cross-examining some Barbour clad birder in court, as to whether he was sure he`d really noted all the relevent features of a Marsh Warbler and that it wasn`t just a common or garden Reed Warbler!!!
Hi Jason,

That sort of thing does actually happen! - been to a public enquiry as an expert witness myself and was questioned by a high-up QC (tho' it was about trees, not birds). A gruelling experience, too, but I succeeded in convincing them on the details ;)

Michael

[Brian Stone]

Not unaware of them....just unaware (unfortunately) of many instances where reccomendations are made and acted upon in favour of conservation related interests.

The benefits can be indirect. I regularly supply data collected by our local club to EIAs and normally ask for a small donation to the Club's finances in return. At the moment that is being fed into local conservation work and an attempt to aid the recovery of Tree Sparrow populations (with some signs of success). Even if the data fails to have a direct impact on the proposed development, the requirement to take account of it in the first place will have a small beneficial effect.

[cjay]

Wel I must say this thread has been popular. What turned out to be a tongue in cheek look at bird reports has been turned into a hot debat about submitting records. This thread has been very enlightening.

How many birders never submit records or take notes or keep comprehensive records?

Why don't birders submit records?

& Why is it that the same observers find all the rarities?

Do they only look for rare birds & exclude evrything else?
what is the secret?

Colin J.

[Jasonbirder]

Well, I keep very detailed notes - at one point I had the urge to get them all up on the web as a website, but the work involved beat me! (This years goes up to Feb so i`m somewhat behind!)

As I have been roundly condemned for I don`t submit them to my county recorder - can`t be bothered, despise the idea of submitting anything by post (if its important enough to be dealt with...its important enough to be dealt with now! If it can wait 6 months to be looked at, its not worth looking at!)

Rarely find anything rare....my local patch inland is as close to a bird desert as you could find (this years highlight 1 (yes 1) Garganey) have been fortunate enough to find bits and bobs at the coast but not heaps - don`t get in the field enough for the odds to tilt my way (pressures of earning a living eh!)

The main secret to finding rare birds is - be in the field as much as possible - time looking is the factor that will tilt the odds in your favour

[Jane Turner]

But surely the point is that all of our concerns as birders are essentially petty concerns

The data contributing to records is a facile argument - 99.99% of the time these records are for birders, by birders - of limited utility or relevence outside the community of birders.



Take a species such as Twite. I found to my horror that in 2002 all of N.Derbyshire's Twite feed in set aside two fields. The good news is that the information was made available to local landowners and the food crop is secured.

With EU grants available for producing habitat with a PROVEN record of attracting threatened species such as Skylark, Corn Bunting, Lapwing etc, there is more and more reason to submit sightings.

Individual records, unless they are from one site over a large period of time, seldom show any useful trends, but the combined casual sightings of a large number of observers can be very useful.

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Colin J,

How many birders never submit records or take notes or keep comprehensive records?
Quite a few,I'd say

Why don't birders submit records?
Various reasons,ranging from laziness and apathy to grudges between goups of birders!

& Why is it that the same observers find all the rarities?

Do they only look for rare birds & exclude evrything else?
what is the secret?
Well,there is an element of concentrating on finding the rarer species.Other factors that help are spending as much time as possible in the field,having a good eye(and ear)for detail and persistence(nobody finds rare birds every week,or month,and even a given year can be poor!).
I wouldn't class myself as a "first class" rarity finder yet,as I haven't really found enough yet.Nevertheless,I have the impression that this year was poor for me in respect to finds,but this is mainly due to the exceptional year that I had last year:I've found more this year than in any previous year before 2002(5 description species and a rare subspecies this year,but only one of these(Semi-P Sand)requires a description in the UK.Probably only about 5 description species last year also,come to think of it,but one of these is a "mega" anywhere in Europe....)
Harry H

[cjay]

I think one of the secrets of finding all the rarities is looking at everything that moves, say along a hedgrow or local Lake. Large groups of birders spread along a coastal stretch with mobiles could shorten the odds.

I birdwatch on my own because I like it that way.

I am with people all week & need time on my own.
Many birders in Suffolk who find rarities go around in a group.

CJ

[Jane Turner]

I think the trick is to be endlessly optimistic. if you are expecting to see something you are more likely to.

Of course that needs to be tempered with a ruthless attitude to ruling rarities out too.

[Tim Allwood]

the same people find the birds because they go out looking at the right time in the right place and have a lot of field experience and know when to pursue something. There's lots of birders every weekend in Norfolk but the regulars are the ones who keep turning things up (on the same days as there are lots of visitors)

Point is I guess most vistors are after birds that are already there and hence don't actually look for much. I found my rares this year by not chasing what was there and finding similar stuff just down the road

just to wind u up a bit more Jase - I reckon luck plays a very small part in it. I used to think luck was the case until I started actively looking for the rares.

Oh, and bird alone or with one other - seems to work.

[Surreybirder]

This thread covers so many issues...!
Looking at our most recent bird report (Surrey 1999!), very few records are credited to an observer. But there is a list of observers near the end.
I do tend to submit records that I think are of interest but don't have the time to follow all the guidelines at the back of the report. (Perhaps this needs explanation: there is a list of all species likely to be seen in Surrey followed by the sort of records required for each species. So, for example, Buzzard (A) means that all records are required (Yes, they're still scarce here!) and rough-legged buzzard (A,D) means all records with a description. It's only quite recently that buzzard was (A, D), so obviously the guidelines must be revised regularly. blackcap (F&L,T,W) means first and last dates, territory counts and winter records--although, come to think of it, I'm not sure that F&L has any meaning for a species that winters!)
The place I fall down is on birds like bullfinch, green and great spotted woodpeckers (all A)--I just don't have the time or patience. So I tend to put in general comments such as 'common in TQ3444').
I have to admit that I do like to see my initials when I've found a county rarity--OK, I'm vain! But to some extent I think I've earned it by the time I've gone to the trouble of writing a description and telling other birders about it so that it can be verified.
I personally think it's nonsense to suggest that there is no scientific value in sending in records. The trend towards earlier egg-laying dates is one of the most telling arguments to show that global warming is affecting the UK, to take just one example. All sorts of things can be learned by analysing trends of bird populations.
But records of common birds may be more significant than those of rarities.
Thanks for starting this threat, Colin!

[Surreybirder]

PS
I wonder how many people submit mammal, dragonfly, butterfly, moth, cricket, spider records??
I tend to be influenced by how interested the county recorder is in my records!

[cjay]

PS
I wonder how many people submit mammal, dragonfly, butterfly, moth, cricket, spider records??
I tend to be influenced by how interested the county recorder is in my records!

Me. I spend many nights from October to December sending them into each recorder.

It is my obligation as a Naturalist to publish my observations & get them recorded for the future.

[Tim Allwood]

I do feel that although twitching is trivial in the nicest possible way birding on the whole isn't. Thru birds I've visited many countries and seen the way that we as individuals can make a difference - witness the Gurney's Pitta campaign run by the OBC - all dedicated volunteers. We have numerous other conservation initiatives that are making a positive contribution and raising awareness of conservation in many developing countries. I started watching inland reservoirs at about 10 and it went from there.

Aspects of the UK scene are trivial and tiresome but remember what it can lead to.....I met a young bloke from UK in Malaysia who shuns the UK birding scene for its petty squabbles and laughable debates but he's seen getting on for 4,000 species and he's still under 30 (doesn't mean anything in itself I know but shows a certain level of interest in birds!)

There are a lot of excellent birders out there you just don't know who aren't in the 'scene' and are opting out of it. I think a lot of UK birders judge others by their very insular outlook - if your not in the loop then 'who are you?'

[Jasonbirder]

just to wind u up a bit more Jase - I reckon luck plays a very small part in it. I used to think luck was the case until I started actively looking for the rares

;) Just can`t ignore `em can I - I rise to the bait like a Trout to a Mayfly!

I`ve argued this before in another thread - I still can`t help but feel that finding rare birds is mainly a product of being in the field -

being in the right place at the right time is important - but not rocket science, doesn`t take a genius to work out you`ll stand more chance of finding Rarities on the East Coast in October after Easterlies than in Shropshire on a sunny day in July does it! (I know theres more to it than that but the pattern of rarity & sub-rarity occurances is generally well documented and understood), as long as you keep your eyes and ears open then surely its a function of time spent out - thats more a function of work/family commitments and personal location than birding skill.

If all rarities were Blyths Reed`s or Humes Y-B`s i`d be tempted to agree, but the bulk of rarities are birds that the average birder should be able to ID without too many problems.....Just look through this months BB - for every Paddyfield Warbler there`s a White Stork or Desert Wheatear.

The example i`ve used before - the Hoopoe I found which flew in off the sea whilst I was Seawatching and right through my scope view - pure blind chance, no calculation or even observation needed!

Not to decry the guys that consistently find rarities, but its usually the guys who are out in the field regularly and/or live in good bird rich areas!

Maybe thats just envy - i`d swap my local patch for any coastal patch of scrub and I`d reckon i`d do better finding rarities than if God himself worked my local pool on a regular basis!!

Hehehe

[pauco]

Hi Michael.
After working in the NHS for nearly 30 years, I
think the state of it is very Important. peoples
health care being one, after all birding is just a
hobby!!! are have I missed somthing?
bert.

[cjay]

Spot on there Tim if you are not in the click, then who are you?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Michael.
After working in the NHS for nearly 30 years, I
think the state of it is very Important. peoples
health care being one, after all birding is just a
hobby!!! are have I missed somthing?
bert.
Hi Bert,

I'm not saying that the NHS isn't important - just saying that I consider the health of our environment is even more important. Without care for the health of the environment, we'd probably all be dying of DDT poisoning now. And birds were - to use a very accurate simile - the canary that raised the alarm

[Michael Frankis]

just to wind u up a bit more Jase - I reckon luck plays a very small part in it. I used to think luck was the case until I started actively looking for the rares.
The thing that makes more difference than anything else in the ability to find rarities, is possession of a car.

Second is having free time to go looking.

Third is having the finance to run the car.

[Tim Allwood]

lots and lots of birders with cars over here at the weekend - many more than the 'natives'
not many find much though......

[logos]

Michael,

Two of the finest birdfinders of their generation in the Uk are not drivers (actually one of them may be now, haven't seen him for a while, but he wasn't for decades when he was finding stacks of stuff). Between them they've found at least 6 firsts for Britain and countless other megas including numerous 2nd's and 3rd's.

Spud

[Michael Frankis]

Michael,

Two of the finest birdfinders of their generation in the Uk are not drivers (actually one of them may be now, haven't seen him for a while, but he wasn't for decades when he was finding stacks of stuff). Between them they've found at least 6 firsts for Britain and countless other megas including numerous 2nd's and 3rd's.

Spud
Presumably they were lucky enough to live within walking distance of the coast? (the vast majority of people don't!)

[logos]

Both lived in or near London though one of them eventually moved to the coast.

Spud

[Jasonbirder]

On the same lines I would hazard a guess that family circumstances play a big part in someones rarity finding track record - don`t reckon that many Married guys get enough free time to spend all day out bashing the bushes when conditions look good!!

[Surreybirder]

Or if they do spend all day bashing bushes they don't stay married!

[Jane Turner]

Depends who they are married to!

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Tim,
"Oh, and bird alone or with one other - seems to work."
That's odd:when I saw this comment I began to think of the rarities that I've been lucky enough to find.While I do go birding with 2 or more others at times,I was either alone or with one other birder for ALL my finds....;)
Find it also helps when one has an "understanding" with the other person(something along the lines of the football cliché of two strikers having a good partnership),haven't found much when I've been out with someone that I don't know too well.
Harry H

[Steve Lister]

Going back to the original subject, sort of anyway............

One contributor thinks that county reports are worthless, but most of us feel that they are of value, even if they soon get filed in boxes in the loft. I am currently wading through 62 years of county reports extracting records for a county avifauna; without the reports it would be an enormous job, accessing the original records, if they still exist. Five of us are doing the avifauna, and four of the five are involved in producing the latest county annual report, because nobody else has come forward to share the tasks. One of our neighbouring counties is lacking a recorder, a report editor and a club secretary and has not been able to produce a report for five years, so I suppose we should think ourselves lucky that we can get the jobs done.

Rather than just getting your initials in the report, why not put your name on the front ?

[cjay]

I have a fair collection of Bird reports which I always refer to. In fact our recent avifauna is so full of errors & ommisions I would rather turn to the reports.

Any report of avifauna is only as good as the birders who send their records in. The reason there are so many gaps on the maps is that half of the active birders do not send in records.

Colin J.

[Bluetail]

I don't quite follow this. Wasn't the avifauna based on the bird reports then?

Jason

[cjay]

Yes but IMHO it was rushed.

[Tim Allwood]

Hi Harry

you said:

when I saw this comment I began to think of the rarities that I've been lucky enough to find.While I do go birding with 2 or more others at times,I was either alone or with one other birder for ALL my finds....
Find it also helps when one has an "understanding" with the other person(something along the lines of the football cliché of two strikers having a good partnership),haven't found much when I've been out with someone that I don't know too well.

yep, there's something in it and I always love a football analogy.

"everything I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football" - Albert Camus - philosopher (and pretty good goalkeeper!)