D40 lens RFI

[jforgham]

Hi to all,
Have recently bought my first DSLR, a nikon D40 which I am most pleased with. I suspect this question is an old chestnut so please direct me to previous threads that answer it rather than go through the whole typing thing again.
I want to buy a reasonable lens for bird photgraphy without breaking the bank. Happy to go for good quality second hand if they occur. Have had experience with 500mm mirror lens on SLR's some 20 - 30 years ago but I would be keen to read through what those who know think.
If you could give an indication of price and even better, examples of bird photos you got with D40 and stated lens would be most grateful. Presently, not even too sure on what size would do the job. For example snapping fieldfares from 50 yard?
Thank in advance
regards,
Jono

[Gentoo]

I just got one too. Nice isn't it?

Well you can go either with the 55-200mmVR...make sure it has VR! They also now have a VR version of the 55-300mm lens. Ritz Camera has the best prices but their service is something to be desired with all their damn verification crap! There is no sales tax and on most things over 100 dollars, no shipping either!

[jforgham]

Hi,
Thanks for the advice. Had a look on a local dealership and they offer a good selection of these. Shall have to pop down and test drive them; oh, and get the expenditure past the missus. Having just bought a new house, two new cars and am presently having a new bathroom fitted, may prove to be easier said than done.
Thanks again,
regards,
Jono

[Gentoo]

No problem, BTW I meant to say 70-300mm.

[Telecorder]

Hi to all,
Presently, not even too sure on what size would do the job. For example snapping fieldfares from 50 yard?
Thank in advance
regards,
Jono

Jono--
Distance to subject, subject size and IQ of the lens are all inter-related. -- The first two correlate to determining the long end needs and the latter is strongly related to cost.

Mothman13 did a chart for a Nikon D80 with a 1.5X crop Factor for different FOV image sizes (18mm - 600mm)... Look at the vertical height of the field of view at each subject distance.

http://www.pbase.com/mothman13/image/74511515 (5 - 30 feet)
http://www.pbase.com/mothman13/image/74511517 (35 - 60 feet)


Evaluate your intended subjects' sizes in light of his FOV chart above/my Bigma chart below.... A perched Bald Eagle stands about ~24" tall so it would fill ~one-third of the vertical field of view of a 500mm lens if the subject was at ~200' distant (FOV ~72"-see below). In my experience, IQ starts to take a hit when an image is cropped more than 1/3 - 1/2 of the original FOV. Less cropping usually equates to more detail/better IQ of a properly exposed image. A prime lens with great IQ can give more cropping % room to work with.

Using my D50/Bigma, I've derived the additional following relationship...
Subject Distance -- ~Vertical FOV (assuming 2,000 vertical pixels)
50-ft -- 20"
100-ft -- 40"
200-ft -- 72"
300-ft -- 110"
400-ft -- 140"
500-ft -- 175"
600-ft -- 210"

What this all means is that the distance to the subject and subject size will also play a large part in just how detailed/sharp an image will be and how much cropping can be had.

To illustrate -- Here's an image at 500mm. Guesstimating the head-tail distance as being ~20", the vertical 2,000 pixels would be ~60" indicating from my above chart that I was ~125-150' distant...
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/DSC_7428800x600.jpg
Cropped/post processed of ~1/2 of the original FOV...
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/DSC_7428-100kb.jpg

In the end, I think one will be better served to also understand the issues of subject size/distance to subject/crop amount when evaluating ability of a lens to obtain the best IQ, detail and sharpness. In general, the better the original IQ one starts with, the more crop, you can get away with.

For wild life, 500mm is about what you'll need short of using a blind and feeders to get frame-filling images.

Here's an extreme distance vs crop illustration...

Original FOV -- guestimating vertical subject as being say 4' puts the vertical FOV at ~48' indicating possibly 1,500' distance to subject--
http://telecorder.smugmug.com/photos/238810332-L.jpg

Heavy crop >1/2 of above reflects poor IQ more due to way too much distance--
http://telecorder.smugmug.com/photos/238810393-L.jpg


There are a few lenses in this category that seem to be used--
300 f/4 + TC
Tamron 200-500
Bigma (Sigma 50-500)
Sigma 100-300 f/4
Nikon 80-400

All of these will be in the ~$600-1,500 range (used - new) Be aware that some will not AF as the D40 does not have the focusing motor that, say, the Tamron 200-500 will need.

One suggestion is to consider starting out with the Nikon AF-S 70-300 VR. Street ~$560 new as its reported to have good to great IQ for its price point.

From there, you can evaluate getting a system for the D40 that will get you to the 500-mm+ range you'll probably want/desire.

Here's a 500-mm at about 20' to whet your appetite of what distance to subject vs IQ is all about...
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/Moonridge%20Alpine%20Zoo/Eagle_6027Custom.jpg

And a 100% crop of the above
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/Moonridge%20Alpine%20Zoo/DSC_60271.jpg

Careful that analysis paralysis doesn't set in, though...;)

[Gentoo]

The only thing about a 500mm lens is the cost which I remember you saying you didn't want to break the bank. Those lenses run somewhere between a plasma screen TV and a Toyota Carola. Check it out:
http://www.ritzcamera.com/lenses-for-nikon-pg1_price+desc.htm?bct=t13079503%3Bcilenses-for-digital-cameras%3Bcislr-lens

Ritz Camera also has some of the most competitive prices out there too.

Teleconverters aren't good for the type of lenses we can afford. Here's why:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/tc.htm

For the average person like you and myself jforgham, We can get the 55-300mmVR lens and rather than go out to the wilderness where birds are more shy, just go to a local park or lake where a 200mm or 300mmVR would do you just fine and, they're affordable.

[Guidenet]

Hi to all,
Have recently bought my first DSLR, a nikon D40 which I am most pleased with. I suspect this question is an old chestnut so please direct me to previous threads that answer it rather than go through the whole typing thing again.
I want to buy a reasonable lens for bird photgraphy without breaking the bank.
Jono

I love that D40 too. I bought one for my gal for Christmas this year. It's got more dynamic range and a higher flash sinc than my more expensive cameras. It's a real jewel. Many of us would trade dynamic range for megapixels any day.

For a lens that won't break the bank but will cause it to shake hard, you might consider a Nikon 300 f4 prime and a teleconverter. That lens is very very sharp and nearly perfect in all respects for the price. You're talking around $1100 US. I 1.7 teleconverter would give you a 510mm. That 300 doesn't lose much with a converter. You'd have the same field of view as a 750 mm lens. You'd want a good tripod and a ball head, IMHO.

If that's too expensive, the 70-300 VR which sells for $500 or so US, is a good choice, as others have mentioned. It doesn't work well with converters.

The Sigma 50-500 is a good choice, if a little softer than the 300 prime. It sells for around $950 USD. It's big and heavy. I'd definately opt for a tripod with it, as well. They call it the "Bigma" and it earns the name.

If you can afford it, that 300 prime is the choice to make. It's probably the best telephoto under the cost of a used car. Used ones are hard to find because people just won't part with them easily.

Just my opinion.