Do Bigger Binoculars Scare Birds?

[NoSpringChicken]

A Dunnock has recently taken up residence in my garden. It's not the most uncommon bird but it's a first for me at home. Several times I have grabbed a pair of binoculars to have a closer look and the easiest ones to get at quickly are my old Zeiss Jenoptem 10x50s. Every time I have lifted them to my eyes, however, the bird has shot off instantly.

I think it has happened too often to be a coincidence and I am sure the bird spots the big lenses and is spooked. This led me to wonder if more compact binoculars, for example 8x32, are less noticeable and scary to birds than full size models. It could be another point in favour of smaller binoculars.

Any views on this or am I being silly?

Ron

[ThoLa]

A Dunnock has recently taken up residence in my garden. It's not the most uncommon bird but it's a first for me at home. Several times I have grabbed a pair of binoculars to have a closer look and the easiest ones to get at quickly are my old Zeiss Jenoptem 10x50s. Every time I have lifted them to my eyes, however, the bird has shot off instantly.

I think it has happened too often to be a coincidence and I am sure the bird spots the big lenses and is spooked. This led me to wonder if more compact binoculars, for example 8x32, are less noticeable and scary to birds than full size models. It could be another point in favour of smaller binoculars.

Any views on this or am I being silly?

Ron


It's perfectly sensible. Bird in general have much better eyesight than we have. Big lenses look like giant eyes to them - eyes of a big animal that may be dangerous.
Try something smaller, very much smaller if possible, from the same spot and tell us what you observe.

Thomas

[Sancho]

I've had exactly the same experience, many times, with different species, even at some distance (I'm sure everyone has). I've often wondered if a bird seeing binoculars being raised, and looking at the objectives (which after all must be reflecting light as eyes do), thinks it's looking at the two eyes of a predator, perhaps an owl....

[NoSpringChicken]

I've also noticed it with my spotting scope. A bird will sit there for ages but as soon as I carefully and slowly raise the scope to look at it, it's off. Very frustrating if I'm trying to digiscope it.

When I've watched Bill Oddie on TV I have noticed that he often uses small (8x30ish) Leicas and cups his hands right round the binoculars to enclose them. I suppose if you are wearing drab coloured gloves as well, it must look less intimidating to the bird.

Ron

[Barred Wobbler]

I've wondered this too, but I thought of it slightly differently. It seems to happen only with birds at close range. If you look at someone head-on as they lift the bins to their eyes, the first thing you see is not the twin black discs that you might expect. If they are doing it right, they will be looking directly at the target and lifting the bins to their eyes as they do so.

In the instant before the bins are put to their eyes there is a time when the eyes are still illuminated by daylight (Before the eye-cups blot it out) and also they are in line with the axis of the binoculars.

The target bird doesn't see two black discs that it may mistake for eyes, it sees two real eyes the same size as the two objective lenses, looking straight at it.

Result - the bird has gone just as the bins are in the position to see through and all you see is a vacant twig.

[NoSpringChicken]

I've wondered this too, but I thought of it slightly differently. If you look at someone head-on as they lift the bins to their eyes, the first thing you see is not the twin black discs that you might expect. If they are doing it right, they will be looking directly at the target and lifting the bins to their eyes as they do so.

In the instant before the bins are put to their eyes there is a time when the eyes are still illuminated by daylight (Before the eye-cups blot it out) and also they are in line with the axis of the binoculars.

The target bird doesn't see two black discs that it may mistake for eyes, it sees two real eyes the same size as the two objective lenses, looking straight at it.

Result - the bird has gone just as the bins are in the postion to see through.
Blimey, you've put some thought into that. Interesting.

Perhaps it's like those war films where the spy in the hills is given away by the sun reflecting on his binocular lenses. Incidentally, and completely off topic, why do the shots taken from the spy's point of view, looking through binoculars, always show two slightly overlapping circles? Don't spies know how to adjust their binoculars?;)

Ron

[ThoLa]

I've had exactly the same experience, many times, with different species, even at some distance (I'm sure everyone has). I've often wondered if a bird seeing binoculars being raised, and looking at the objectives (which after all must be reflecting light as eyes do), thinks it's looking at the two eyes of a predator, perhaps an owl....

In your case, my dear Sancho, it must be the bike rather than the binos.

;) Tom

[Brosnabirder]

Blimey, you've put some thought into that. Interesting.

Perhaps it's like those war films where the spy in the hills is given away by the sun reflecting on his binocular lenses. Incidentally, and completely off topic, why do the shots taken from the spy's point of view, looking through binoculars, always show two slightly overlapping circles? Don't spies know how to adjust their binoculars?;)

Ron

I've often wondered at that too. Glad I'm not the only one. My family thought me slightly mad for asking such questions. Must put terrible strain on spies eyes ;)

[NoSpringChicken]

I've often wondered at that too. Glad I'm not the only one. My family thought me slightly mad for asking such questions. Must put terrible strain on spies eyes ;)
So if you see a 'birder' with incorrectly adjusted binoculars, it's possible he is not looking at birds at all but is working for MI5 so just be careful what you are up to!;)

Ron

[clschmalz]

I've seen a similar reaction when trying to photograph deer and other wildlife with a long lens and attributed it to their seeing the camera or lens as a weapon.

Charlie

[NoSpringChicken]

I can borrow some Opticron 8x25 LEs so I will try them and my Swift HHS roofs if I can find the pesky bird again before I leave for work tomorrow.

Ron

[P H]

More likely the birds would be spooked by light reflecting of the lenses. Can't say I've ever come across this myself either with binoculars or scope.

[Barred Wobbler]

More likely the birds would be spooked by light reflecting of the lenses. Can't say I've ever come across this myself either with binoculars or scope.

Well why not accept the opinions of the several people here who say that they have experienced it?

Another thing that causes alarm is the realisation of the bird or animal that it has been noticed and is being paid attention to. Getting away from the fixed gaze (often of a predator) is a good survival policy.

[NoSpringChicken]

I'm always amazed how gulls can pick out pieces of bread on a daisy covered lawn from way up in the sky. I, for one, don't always appreciate birds' amazing eyesight and perception. I tend to think that, because I am observing them through binoculars from a distance, they are not aware of me. I think I will have to look into this fieldcraft business a little closer.;)

Ron

[P H]

Well why not accept the opinions of the several people here who say that they have experienced it?

Another thing that causes alarm is the realisation of the bird or animal that it has been noticed and is being paid attention to. Getting away from the fixed gaze (often of a predator) is a good survival policy.

Accepted

you accept mine.

[Barred Wobbler]

The difference is we are writing from things we have experienced personally. You are saying that it does not happen because you have not come across it personally.

I accept however that you may not have come across it.

[Barred Wobbler]

I'm always amazed how gulls can pick out pieces of bread on a daisy covered lawn from way up in the sky. I, for one, don't always appreciate birds' amazing eyesight and perception. I tend to think that, because I am observing them through binoculars from a distance, they are not aware of me. I think I will have to look into this fieldcraft business a little closer.;)

Ron

They know you're there, Ron. The crucial thing is do they perceive you as a threat or not.

Gulls.

I used to go sea-fishing quite a lot. When the boat was travelling between drops or while we were fishing, we hardly saw a gull apart from the odd one at a distance. As the day went on and some of the rods began to catch we would use the spells while the boat was moving between drops to gut any cod we'd caught until then. Within seconds of the first fish being gutted and the guts being thrown over the side the first distant gull would see the change in activity and turn towards the boat.

In a couple of minutes the boat would be followed by a sizeable flock of gulls, fulmars and the odd gannet (they all got out of the way for the gannets). The thing was, the birds weren't just watching us, they were watching each other. When the first gull changed its path to approach the boat other birds, perhaps flying further away or perhaps just loafing on the sea, would notice the change in behaviour and realise that food was on offer.

They only followed the boat while we were gutting, but after the first spell a few birds (usually the fulmars) would stay close by while we fished on the drift just in case.

[P H]

Both big and small binoculars are going to give reflections of lenses think that would spook the birds more, than the birds thinking its a pair of predetor's eye looking for a meal. Thats all I was saying.

[NoSpringChicken]

The thing was, the birds weren't just watching us, they were watching each other. When the first gull changed its path to approach the boat other birds, perhaps flying further away or perhaps just loafing on the sea, would notice the change in behaviour and realise that food was on offer.

I have noticed this with Starlings too. If I put some bread on the lawn it can stay there for ages. Eventually one brave Starling will appear and start feeding. Suddenly there is five, then fifteen and then thirty. I suppose we are the same: we don't want to miss out on something good.

If I'm feeling mischievous while I'm bird watching it's always good fun to stare at the top of a tree with binoculars and see how long it is before you are joined by someone else. It's possible to get quite a little crowd all straining to see what they are missing. You can then shrug your shoulders and walk away. Oh the joy.;)

That's one case where big binoculars are an asset.

Ron

[Barred Wobbler]

I have noticed this with Starlings too. If I put some bread on the lawn it can stay there for ages. Eventually one brave Starling will appear and start feeding. Suddenly there is five, then fifteen and then thirty. I suppose we are the same: we don't want to miss out on something good.

If I'm feeling mischievous while I'm bird watching it's always good fun to stare at the top of a tree with binoculars and see how long it is before you are joined by someone else. It's possible to get quite a little crowd all straining to see what they are missing. You can then shrug your shoulders and walk away. Oh the joy.;)

That's one case where big binoculars are an asset.

Ron


I fell for something similar (but not intentional) the other year on Holy Island.

I was looking for a red-backed shrike in the sparse bushes in the dunes at the far end of the straight lonnen. After much looking I decided that perhaps the bird had moved on so I gave up and continued on my way, going through the excavations, and back via the lime kilns. At the Chare Ends I looked across the fields and saw a large group of people on the skyline of the dunes at the far end of the straight lonnen. A check with the bins confirmed them as birders and they were all looking in the same direction. "They've found the shrike".

I put on a spurt, on through the village and back up the straight lonnen, a distance of about a mile and a half, and got there with all my gear, bins, scope, camera, etc in record time and out of breath. The group had dispersed a bit so I asked one of the birders where the shrike was.

"Not a clue". Came the reply. They were a bus trip up from Leeds and when I first saw them they had just arrived mob handed to look for the shrike that was no longer there.

[Corvus Corax]

Interesting question - but is it the large bins or the movement of the bins up to the eyes that is flushing the birds?

This afternoon I had a brambling on my queuing tree next to my feeeders amidst the mixed finch & tit flock so grabbed my 20D + 70-200 f2.8, ever so quietly and gently eased the front door open and grabbed a few shots.

Now the front element on the lens is 82mm - way bigger than a binocular front element - and yet the birds did not flush which I believe is because my movements were very slow and steady. The birds on my front feeders are very wary so that was not a limiting factor.

Is it movement then ?

[Barred Wobbler]

Interesting question - but is it the large bins or the movement of the bins up to the eyes that is flushing the birds?

This afternoon I had a brambling on my queuing tree next to my feeeders amidst the mixed finch & tit flock so grabbed my 20D + 70-200 f2.8, ever so quietly and gently eased the front door open and grabbed a few shots.

Now the front element on the lens is 82mm - way bigger than a binocular front element - and yet the birds did not flush which I believe is because my movements were very slow and steady. The birds on my front feeders are very wary so that was not a limiting factor.

Is it movement then ?

Back to my "eye" theory. I always try to keep my movements smooth, keep movement limited to the front of my body, elbows in, so that my outline doesn't change, stand in front of tree-trunks to avoid an outline altogether, etc, etc.

Yet time after time a bird I have seen at relatively close range, apparently settled on a perch flies off only as the bins reach my eyes. Not before, as I lift the bins, because the bird is still there until my eyes are obscured by the bins and I don't see it leave. In the half-second it takes for my eyes to adjust the bird departs.

Similar circumstances, another bird in a similar bush, but this time I'm tracking it as it moves in the bush. I already have the bins to my eyes and I'm scanning when I locate the bird, which is not alarmed and just gets on with life, possibly perching in full view.

It's happened too often for it to be coincidence and I believe it's the sight of my eyes through the tubes of the binoculars that causes the alarm.

A camera lens is different. I was photographing bramblings and nuthatches from only a few feet yesterday and they didn't mind the camera. If I looked up over the top of the camera (I was using the car as a hide and had the camera on a tripod) the appearance of my eyes was enough to put the finch flock up into the trees for a few minutes before they came back and returned to the seed they were feeding on. When I twigged this I put on a hat with a brim that shaded my eyes and it seemed to help until a surfiet of dog-walkers put paid to the whole enterprise.

[Corvus Corax]

I can see what you are saying Alan - due to the prism the "eye" effect won't occur with an SLR camera lens and so no disturbance - makes sense.

Might be worth trying an old snipers trick - a bit of scrim net over the bins to break up the outline of objective lenses whilst not adversely affecting viewing.

[jjg213]

Hello all,
I, too, have experienced the bird fly off when, however steathily, raising the bins to the eyes. Now, after reading this discussion I am going to try smaller bins, on occasion, (8x20's).
As far as the question of movies showing the double, uncorrected ipd???, I have always assumed that it is done to emphasize that someone is looking through binoculars!
Regards, John

[Vectis Birder]

I'd always put birds disappearing as soon as you get your bins on them, down to Sod's Law. I hadn't thought of the possibility that binocs actually might scare them. Interesting.

[iveljay]

'Our' dunnocks are unphased if we watch from behind glass. If we are in the open - bins or not they are off!
We can be within about 6 feet with any size bins you like as long as we cut off their direct view of our movements below about 3 feet. That pretty well works with most ground feeding birds.

If anyone has any doubts about bird awareness watch a collared dove with your bins from a fair distance (30 feet?) in the open sooner or later you are horribly aware that it is looking straight into your eyes. Most unnerving!

[kabsetz]

Alan,

I have seen this "giant eye" myself when a friend demonstrated it to me by looking straight at my face through a pair of binoculars from a distance of some 20 meters. Especially the moment when he blinked with a pair of 50mm eyes it was certainly a sight that would have made me fly if I could and was programmed to consider myself prey.

Kimmo

[ceasar]

The prices of the ones the "Big Three" make certainly scare me!
Bob:-O

[TomSmith]

I've often suspected that as well as seeing my binoculars, (which are only small), birds can hear the faint "click" sound that they make when they hit my glasses lenses. Shame I can't seem to get used to combining bins with contact lenses...

[Barred Wobbler]

Alan,

I have seen this "giant eye" myself when a friend demonstrated it to me by looking straight at my face through a pair of binoculars from a distance of some 20 meters. Especially the moment when he blinked with a pair of 50mm eyes it was certainly a sight that would have made me fly if I could and was programmed to consider myself prey.

Kimmo

That is precisely what I meant. Thanks.

I'm going to try to combat it by aiming slightly off as I lift the binoculars, so by the time I'm lined up my eyes are darkened by the lens cups. Remembering to do it is the hard bit.

[ThoLa]

The prices of the ones the "Big Three" make certainly scare me!
Bob:-O


True. But strangely enough they still attract and not repel us, don't they?

Tom

[mooreorless]

Hello, I tried a little experiment this morning before work. I went into the bathroom with my Nikon 7x35 Nikon Action binocular and looked with left eye through the right ocular lens on the right side of the binocular and could see a very "big" eye plainly with my right eye in the mirror, esp. before my eye was up to the eyepiece. Try it you will see. It sort of scared me. :-) BTW the Action is my "computer stand binocular".
Regards,Steve

[NoSpringChicken]

Hello, I tried a little experiment this morning before work. I went into the bathroom with my Nikon 7x35 Nikon Action binocular and looked with left eye through the right ocular lens on the right side of the binocular and could see a very "big" eye plainly with my right eye in the mirror, esp. before my eye was up to the eyepiece. Try it you will see. It sort of scared me. :-) BTW the Action is my "computer stand binocular".
Regards,Steve
That's interesting, Steve. I've now got the image of lots of people sneaking off to the bathroom with their binoculars tonight. That should provoke some interesting domestic discussions.;) I will try it out to see what happens.

I had my Swift binoculars ready this morning but sod's law meant that this was the first day for a fortnight when I couldn't hear or see the Dunnock. Hopefully, I will get the chance to try some smaller binoculars soon to see if it does make any difference.

Ron

[mooreorless]

Ron, This might be something better than what they usually do in the bathroom.:-]
Regards,Steve

[NoSpringChicken]

Ron, This might be something better than what they usually do in the bathroom.:-]
Regards,Steve

True and it's probably better than sneaking off there with a camera.:eek!:

Ron

[josika]

I use either an 8*32 or a 10*42 and have noticed no difference in the flightiness of the birds I was observing. Some days you can get up close on others as soon as you raise your binocs they are off. They seem to be more flighty on windy days.

[ThoLa]

That's interesting, Steve. I've now got the image of lots of people sneaking off to the bathroom with their binoculars tonight.
Ron

Prediction: it will lead to a new thread discussing internal fogging of binoculars.

T

[Vectis Birder]

I've tried the binoculars-in-the-bathroom-mirror experiment with my 8x42s and can't see any big eyes. I'm a little disappointed. :-C

[Sancho]

I've tried the binoculars-in-the-bathroom-mirror experiment with my 8x42s and can't see any big eyes. I'm a little disappointed. :-C
I just tried it with binos in the kitchen mirror (I don´t do optics in the bathroom, I´m just an old-fashioned kind of guy and there are some things I draw the line at;)). I could just make out big freaky-looking alien-type eyes looking back at me, and I bet birds could see them much better than I.

[NoSpringChicken]

I sneaked my binoculars into the bathroom tonight to do the 'big eye test' and my verdict is ... the ceiling could do with a coat of paint.

Actually I was surpised to find that there was indeed a big eye staring back at me. Quite gruesome actually. Incidentally it was much easier to see the effect with my roof prism Swifts than the Zeiss porros. The cranked body of the Zeiss made it difficult to point it in the right direction when it was on the wrong eye.

I don't know what it proves but it was an interesting diversion, standing with one foot in the bath and the other on the floor. Perhaps the mirror needs moving when I paint the ceiling.

Ron

[mooreorless]

I sneaked my binoculars into the bathroom tonight to do the 'big eye test' and my verdict is ... the ceiling could do with a coat of paint.

Actually I was surpised to find that there was indeed a big eye staring back at me. Quite gruesome actually. Incidentally it was much easier to see the effect with my roof prism Swifts than the Zeiss porros. The cranked body of the Zeiss made it difficult to point it in the right direction when it was on the wrong eye.

I don't know what it proves but it was an interesting diversion, standing with one foot in the bath and the other on the floor. Perhaps the mirror needs moving when I paint the ceiling.

Ron

Hi Ron, I just couldn't help myself. This is harder to do than I thought.I hope it doesn't scare anybody.;) I had to pull away from the ocular lens to get more light to be able to capture this in the camera, so that is why the eye is smaller.:-) My ceiling is ok.
BTW Sancho I don't mind doing this in the bathroom it is a break from what I usually do.:-)

[KorHaan]

Did the eye test.


EEEK!


Goodbye hobby.
I'm going to collect stamps.

Greetings, Ronald

[KorHaan]

Or perhaps not.

Anybody know of a binocular make with 5 mm objective lenses?
Or less, of course.

Greetings, Ronald

[MacGee]

I've noticed the same effect of birds flying away just as I raise my binoculars, but I think it's mostly the movement that they're responding to; the same thing happens if you point out a bird to your companion, as in "Look, there's a...oh, it's gone."

My wife and I looked at each other through our binoculars today when we were out, but neither of us could see anything alarming. Of course it was a cloudy day and we both had porros.

Michael

[Sancho]

My wife and I looked at each other through our binoculars today when we were out......Michael
Glad to hear neither of you took flight.....

[kabsetz]

I think that the "giant eye" scaring the bird problem can be avoided rather easily by a slight change in viewing habits. Since the eye can be seen only when the optical axis of the binocular is aimed directly at the viewer (here the bird), the cure is to lift the binoculars to the eyes from below and to aim a little under the bird, then view the bird with at least its head remaining a little above the center of the viewfield. This way the bird should not be able to see the "eye," and most binoculars easily have a wide enough sweet spot for sharpness not to suffer much if at all. Looking slightly off-axis up or down is easy enough.

To test how far off-axis you need to go, one could take a mirror outdoors and place it some 10-20 meters away so that you can see yourself in it - then experiment with different binocular orientations to see where the eye is visible and where it is not.

Worth a try if you have a problem with birds flying away as soon as you get them in view.

Kimmo

[Barred Wobbler]

I agree entirely (see post 30).

The effect only occurs when the optical axis is lined up directly from the eye to the bird, and also when there is sufficient gap between the eye and the eyepiece for incident light to illuminate the eye as seen by the bird.

Aim slightly off when placing the bins and there should be no problem.

[trashbird]

I think this is a quantum birding phenomenon. When you observe the bird, its behavior changes as a result of being observed. Observing through binoculars multiplies the observational effect.

This is related to the phenomena of a watched pot never boiling, failing to get your dog to do a trick for another observer, and trying to get your car to make the noise you've been hearing when you take it to the mechanic.