'Scope headaches?

[SimonC]

Hello all,

Not sure if this the right section to post this in but here goes:

Does anybody else get headaches from prolonged 'scope use? I do. I believe it is as a result of keeping my right eye closed for such a long time (makes my cheek hurt too ;) ) yes I did mean right eye! long story involving an inflammation of the optic nerve as a teenager! Result: my left eye is now dominant so I look through my 'scope with it!
anyway, I've considered buying an eye patch, regardless of any funny looks I might get! but can't seem to find any?
Any other suggestions? I've tried "training" myself not to actually see anything through my right eye whilst using the 'scope but that's nigh on impossible with a straight through (probably should've bought an angled in hindsight!)

Tell me I'm not alone in this?!?!

Simon

[robinm]

I don't suffer from this myself, however I do know that it can be a problem.

One solution I have seen to this was someone who used glasses who had a pair of clip on dark glasses from which he had cut away the right (in his case) dark lens. I guess you could do the same with a pair of sunglasses - the darker the better or maybe you could put some dark covering over the remaining lens.

Hope you find a solution that suits you.

[Michael Frankis]

I've used an eye patch at times - yes it looks silly and gets comments, but if it helps you see birds, so what!?! It certainly removes a lot of eye strain. Try Boots, they (at least used to) sell them, unfortunately they're a sort of yukky pink colour, instead of a good old trad Long John Silver black.

The other reason for strain when using a scope is the funny angle your head & eye have to be at to look through. The natural comfortable angle of the human head is with the centre of vision looking about 30° downward. This means that with a straight-through scope, you're looking 30° higher than normal, and with an angled scope, about 15° below normal. On a prolonged seawatch, this gives you quite a bit of neck strain, obviously worse with a straight through. Now if someone could develop a 30° angle scope . . . but it would be complex optics, so expensive.

Michael

[SimonC]

unfortunately they're a sort of yukky pink colour, instead of a good old trad Long John Silver black.

Shame that! ;) Quite liked the idea of the pirate look! LOL

Christmas is coming though, and didn't you used to get them in crackers?!? :'D

Simon

[birdman]

Hi Simon,

I notice you mention looking through your scope with both eyes open. This is something I do with my x20 old straight scope*, when scanning... it's not so hard to get used to "concentrating" on what your scope eye sees and "ignoring" your other eye. (In fact, the other eye becomes my peripheral vision, as it were, so I have half an idea what's going on outside the scope field of view (although I must confess that I don't know whether I have 180 degree "peripheral" or just 90 degree - as I've never paid that much attention).

Of course, if I find something interesting then I close the other eye.

(* I don't know if magnification is a factor, and perhaps this is more difficult at higher mags?)

[Michael Frankis]

(* I don't know if magnification is a factor, and perhaps this is more difficult at higher mags?)
Hi Birdman,

It will be - the higher the magnification (for the same objective lens), the darker the image, and the more the bright outside at the other eye will overpower brain's interpretation of the scope image

Michael

[SimonC]

Hi Birdman,

It will be - the higher the magnification (for the same objective lens), the darker the image, and the more the bright outside at the other eye will overpower brain's interpretation of the scope image

Michael

That'll be part of the problem then! I use a 30x (far too powerful really, don't know why I chose it over the 23x or 20x?!? Nevermind)

Simon

[Doug]

Using the scope doesn't give me headaches but I do have an alergy to the material used to coat the eyepeice on my Leica Bins which causes my eyelids to swell up - it looks like I have had insect bites on the lids - no itching, no pain just makes me feel like I have been in a fight (probably over a contentious wader identification!)

I have not found anyone else who suffers with this problem.

[Scott67]

This is precisely the reason why I recently moved from a Scope to Large Aperture Binoculars, The headaches just were'nt worth it after a while.

A Pair of 20x60 with Tripod adaptor soon cured me.

Might not suit everyone and the quality is'nt as good as some high end scopes, but you pays your money...

[Alastair Rae]

I use one hand to drive and the other to cover the free eye. You don't have to block the eye entirely, just enough so it doesn't get distracted.

A patch would be silly - you'd be whipping it on and off to use your bins!

[pduxon]

I use one hand to drive and the other to cover the free eye. You don't have to block the eye entirely, just enough so it doesn't get distracted.

A patch would be silly - you'd be whipping it on and off to use your bins!
Oh the temptation to make a funny quip....


I've not had a problem so far, although I have to close the left eye.

[SimonC]

I use one hand to drive and the other to cover the free eye. You don't have to block the eye entirely, just enough so it doesn't get distracted.

A patch would be silly - you'd be whipping it on and off to use your bins!

I have tried that but you'd be surprised how much more difficult it is if, like me, you're using your left eye to view (try it!)

Oh the temptation to make a funny quip....

Awww, go on! :-O

Simon

[Steve T]

I found a royal blue patch at the first chemist I tried. It allows you to relax those face muscles, and it just flips up to let me use the bins. It cured my problem of double vision after prolonged scoping. It also keeps the wind out on those draughty winter days.
Steve

[mcdowella]

There is a Bushnell Spacemaster with a variable angle - see http://www.bushnell.com/productinfo/spotting/spacemaster.html and look at the bottom two scopes. I have never even seen it, but somebody on Birdforum asked about value for money and scopes and ended up going for one.

Interested to see somebody going for 20x60 binoculars. I enjoy looking through binoculars but find scopes a bit of a trial. Also I don't like carrying too much kit around. I was going to wait a few years for IS to mature and then think about 20x60 IS binoculars or similar.

[AndyC]

I also have a very dominant left eye and find that I need to cover my right eye when using a 'scope, especially at higher magnifactions (I use a 20-60 zoom) and in poor light. If I don't, then I tend to get very tired eyes quite quickly. It sometimes helps to alternate between using the 'scope and binoculars. Anyone know why?



AndyC

[scampo]

You might well find it's the vertebrae in your neck - that's my problem anyway and it's not uncommon, especially if you are tall or have ever had a whiplash injury. Thank goodness they make angled scopes!

[Bluetail]

I've really knackered myself with my scope. First mistake: carrying it on the tripod over my right shoulder. Over the years its led to muscle strain. Then, as Scampo says, the vertebrae - now have problems due to cricking my neck back to look through the thing. Currently costing me a fortune in osteopath fees (but things seem to be improving slowly).

Doug, I too react to the eyecups on my old Leitz red-spots. Not often, but just occasionally I get an itchy eye.

Jason

[scampo]

I tell you what - I wish tall blokes designed bird hides. Lots of those viewing gaps are t-o-o low by half for us tall ones.

[AndyC]

I often find that when using a hide clamp on the shelf below the viewing windows, that the seats are fixed too close to the window and that I have to lean right back to use the scope.


AndyC

[Doug]

I find the same thing, AndyC. And the shelf is never big enough for my bins, notebook, fieldguide, camera, scope adaptor, hat, gloves, sandwich box, flask...

[Denis J]

I watched a Biathlon on the tv over the weekend I noticed lots of them had what looked like a bit of card on the sights sticking out at right angles to stop distraction through the non-aiming eye ...may be worth a try and if it dont work then its cost nowt anyway :@)

[Jane Turner]

For long seawatches I have been known tape a piece of featureless grey card inside of a cereal packet to the scope so my left eye can sort of just drift. It means you dn't have nything in the way of your eye is you suddenly need bins.

Of course thes days I just poke the scope through the curtains and look at those with my left yet!

I used to suffer burn out... loss/reduction of colour vision in my right eye after prolonged use of a bright scope!

[scampo]

I find the same thing, AndyC. And the shelf is never big enough for my bins, notebook, fieldguide, camera, scope adaptor, hat, gloves, sandwich box, flask...

What? No laptop with Birds of Britain CD-ROM running?

[Bill@dwp]

I often find that when using a hide clamp on the shelf below the viewing windows, that the seats are fixed too close to the window and that I have to lean right back to use the scope.

Andy
I find that many of the seats are too low for use with an angled scope. I supposed they were designed that way for straight scope users or am I too small at 5/8?. I often use the hides at Martin Mere so I know where I can sit and not, but new places can be a pain particularly if busy like at weekends when I have the most time to go.

I also agree that many shelves are to narrow as well, although I try to keep everything in my bag until I need it.

My biggest bug bear though is with windows. The number of times I've set the scope up then gone to open the window and the scope is in the way! Thinking about it thats the narrow shelf thing as well.

I suppose I shouldn't moan as its often nice to be somewhere were you have a window!

Bill

[KCFoggin]

by Doug - Using the scope doesn't give me headaches but I do have an alergy to the material used to coat the eyepeice on my Leica Bins which causes my eyelids to swell up
Doug, are you allergic to latex? Latex allergies are known to cause the symptoms you state. Not sure if there is any latex in the eyepieces, but there may be a form of it in there.

[KCFoggin]

You might well find it's the vertebrae in your neck - that's my problem anyway and it's not uncommon, especially if you are tall or have ever had a whiplash injury. Thank goodness they make angled scopes!

Being on the shorter side Steve, my neck muscles tend to suffer when I have to extend the tripod for the birds perched in the top of trees. I do believe the next scope I get, it will have the angled eyepiece cause I refuse to carry a stool around with me.;)

[scampo]

It seems from what others write that straight scopes are the most popular in your country, whereas the opposite is the case here.

Yet... I was recently in Norfolk (a top Eastern birding county in the UK) and was amazed at the number of straight scopes around - although they were older scopes. I think most new scopes sold here are angled. They're certainly easier on the neck and easier for a second person to have a view through the scope.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Steve,

I've got a straight-through - mixed feelings about which is better though. An angled would give less neck strain, but it is also more difficult to pin on a bird, and in wet weather, the eyepiece fills up with water, which doesn't happen with a straight through

Michael

[scampo]

You're right about the rain - but the neck strain is too much for me sadly. I'd end up with a cricked neck and no chance of birding for a few days. Being tall has many advantages but neck problems come with the model sadly (at least for me).

[david r]

HEADACHE,
I am looking to buy my first scope fairly soon and trying to decide what to buy is giving me a headache lol
Dave

[Bluetail]

I've got a straight-through - mixed feelings about which is better though. An angled would give less neck strain, but it is also more difficult to pin on a bird, and in wet weather, the eyepiece fills up with water, which doesn't happen with a straight through
Absolutely. That's the reason I have a straight-through one. Even though I suffer for it, I wouldn't change to an angled.

Jason

[KCFoggin]

It seems from what others write that straight scopes are the most popular in your country, whereas the opposite is the case here.

My main concern was being able to spot the bird with the scope quickly and I just assumed it would be easier with a straight through eyepiece. Still not always easy though when the bird is a distance away and I take my eyes off the spot for a moment.

[Dave B Smith]

I was thinking the same KC, but ordered the angled as that one was in stock and I was going on a trip.

Anyway, what a blessing in disguise! I'm always sharing it with my wife (shorter) and usually friends and the angled makes this easy.

I was also pleasantly surprised how quick I can line up the bird. The angled doesn't slow this down a bit.

And yes, my neck is also thankful for the angled.

[Jane Turner]

I prefer straight through since if I'm taking a scope out with me, I'm most likely to have it on a shoulder pod.

[Doug]

and if you have ever birded the Choughs at Bird Rock in North Wales you will know how much easier that is with an angled scope - the rock climbs almost vertically from the road, witha straight scope you would have to lie on the floor to scope the birds!!

[scampo]

That's a fact. And what a wonderful walk it is up there, too. I'd never seen a sheep jump over a wall until I saw it at Bird Rock. There must be an extra something in the Welsh grass.

To see a flock of choughs there is a sight to remember but they do wander around a fair bit. Add chats, wheatear, raven and various raptors though and for a day out with grey wagtail and dipper so close by it can hardly be beaten.

[Doug]

Bird Rock is great for Peregrine. Also had our best views of Red Kite there - one made 2 passes right above us just 20/30 feet up - superb!

[SimonC]

Just to get this thread back on track ;)
Thanks to everyone who's made suggestions for alternatives to the eye-patch idea (it would look a bit silly!) & especially thanks to those few who have reassured me that I'm not the only weirdo that gets headaches from 'scoping (worried I might have a brain tumour for a while there ;) )

Reading some of the suggestions got me thinking & last night I experimented with a few different ideas. I can't beleive I didn't think of this one sooner (o)< I have a "stay-on" case on my 'scope (Opticron HR66) and my solution is simple! Normally when the 'scope is in use, I would attach the eyepiece cover (the big sock like bit) to the popper on the side of the case, but last night I wondered whether I could attach it to the popper on the top (where it would be in the "stowed" position) and have it sticking out at 90º to the 'scope. Waddya know! it works! Cuts out just enough of the vision from my right eye to allow me to comfortably use the 'scope! (not tried it in daylight yet, but I'm sure it'll be OK! - It's a start anyway)

Cheers

Simon

[scampo]

I think with practice it's possible to look through a scope with both eyes open; indeed, I've seen that as the recommended way. Plenty of birders seem to do this. Myself I find it's easy with my right eye only. My youngest son, Matt, always looks through his scope this way.

[Geoff Brown]

I've had a straight and now have an angled 'scope. Being tall I find the angled is more comfortable to use as I'm slightly bending and not almost crouching as I was with the straight model. Also tripod is not as high and therefore steadier. I find that I am still able to line up the birds fairly quickly even with the angled model. :bounce:

[KCFoggin]

I can see where digiscoping is an insidious disease of the wallet. I believe I will be ordering a taller tripod than the one I have. Partly because of Geoff's reference to a sturdier base on those occasions where the subject is higher than I.

[Malcolm Onley]

Hello. I have just joined the "forum" being new to birding and all that this entails. I was browsing the site to find info to help me in choosing a good scope when I found this eye strain question. As I have very little experience yet I'm a bit reticent to add any advice but I do have experience from a parallel field which might be of use.
I used to do a great deal of scientific microscapy and we were all taught very early on to keep both eyes open at all times precisely to avoid eye strain and never to close the "other" eye. At first this felt very strange and the brain had difficulty in coping. But remarkably after several hours of practice the brain adapted (as the tutors knew ot would!) and you "saw" (or registered) only the image you were concentrating on in the scope. Eye strain was eliminated. Once learned, that was it; ie you didn't have to adapt each time as it became second nature.

[pduxon]

Hi Malcolm and welcome to the forum. The difficulty I have keeping both eyes open.....!!

[digi-birder]

Malcolm, on behalf of admin and all the moderators, let me offer you a warm welcome to BF.

Please don't feel reticent about contributing to the discussions, no matter how inexperienced you feel.

We look forward to hearing all about your birding experiences and hope you enjoy your visits to BF. You may find, though, that you become a little addicted!

I have to admit that I close the other eye when looking through the scope, but I will certainly give your suggestion a try.

[Elizabeth Bigg]

Hi Malcolm, and another welcome. I'm interested in this comment about keeping both eyes open when using a scope, because we'll be getting one shortly. Perhaps if I use your suggested method right from the start, I'll find it easier to get used to it, rather than try to change later if I get a headache problem.

Now - slight change of topic - for people who already have scopes - which eye do you use? I use my right eye with a camera, so I suppose this would be what I would do with a scope.

[digi-birder]

I have to use my right eye, as I have a slight squint in the left one. Not enough to make me look cross-eyed, but enough to make everything blurred when I close the right eye.

[scampo]

I can use either but prefer my right eye. I leave both eyes open at times - I once read that was the best thing to do (but can't imagine why).

[Bluetail]

My natural inclination was to use my left eye. However, I can't as I have a tiny distortion of vision right at the point of focus (shaped like a Black Kite - no, only joking) so I have to use my right. It's second nature now.

Jason

[pduxon]

Mine is to use my right eye.

Jason - are you right or left handed?

[SimonC]

As I said right at the start of this thread, I use my left eye. But that is due to an infection of the optic nerve. Prior to that, my right eye was dominant.
I'm also right handed, do you think there's a connection then Pete?

[Bluetail]

Jason - are you right or left handed?It varies. I kick with my left foot and bat and bowl left-handed, but I throw with my right arm (I'm not much of a cricketer, BTW!) I also write right-handed. Can't do any of these things with either hand/foot so can't be classed as ambidextrous. I think cack-handed is probably the word you want!

Jason

[Elizabeth Bigg]

Sounds a bit like me Jason - things I've been taught to do, I do right-handed, but for self taught things I use my left hand.

Caused me all sorts of trouble when I was trying to coil and throw a rope (Girl Guide badge). It was only years later I realised the problem - coiled left handed, tried to throw right handed, ended up in a terrible tangle! :eek!: I tie bowlines left handed - so I used to teach the left handed students in a group of people learning to sail.

[pduxon]

If it reguires one I use my right hand Badminton say or writing or bowling at Cricket but to bat or play golf I'm left handed!!

So I would expect to use my right eye for a scope

[normjackson]

Imagine this without the the beam splitter:
http://www.monkoptics.co.uk/Observation/cyclops.html
Guess waterproof body means we should interpret this as an attempt to bring beam splitter to terrestrial viewing.

[stevo]

Sorry to come into this thread late,but getting back to the original theme my doctor who is also a birder told me that you can end up with a contorted pupil if you look through a scope with one eye shut.That is why it`s best to keep both eyes open.

Regards Steve.

[Gaz Shilton]

Hi SimonC,
What I have found to eleviate a similar problem I had was when I got a Skua stay-on-case for my new scope, I put the lens cover to the side of the lens, it blocks out the light of the eye I am not using so I can now keep this eye open, thereby taking the strain off it having it closed all the time I look thru' the eyepiece.

[Karl J]

Hi there SimonC, same problem but different reason.

I get over it by keeping both eyes open but covering the non-scopeing eye (right term ???) with my hand.

Works for me, hope it helps

[SimonC]

Hi SimonC,
What I have found to eleviate a similar problem I had was when I got a Skua stay-on-case for my new scope, I put the lens cover to the side of the lens, it blocks out the light of the eye I am not using so I can now keep this eye open, thereby taking the strain off it having it closed all the time I look thru' the eyepiece.
Great minds think alike? see post#38 of this thread ;)

Cheers