Is 7x42 the best combination or is it just purist pants?

[timtagel]

Discuss! ;)

We all know the usual birdwatcher's choice is 8x42, but I read with regularity on here ravings for 7x42. The advantages being FOV, viewing ease etc. What do we think? Part of me agrees with this, but another, more mischievous part of me thinks these musings are akin to audiophile bores spouting on about bi-wiring and pre-amps! :-)

[trashbird]

Both the 7x42 and 8x42 are good choices for your main birding bino. There are more choices in 8x42, and there seem to be a lot more good medium-priced binos in this configuration. It's really just a matter of personal preference. I use an 8x42, but if cost wasn't prohibitive, I would probably be using a Swaro 7x42.

[denco@comcast.n]

7x42 is the BEST forget the rest. I tried all the configurations and 7x42 blows 8x42's away everyday!

Dennis

[Alexis Powell]

Maybe when the lenses of my eyes are less flexible I'll notice and value the greater depth of field of the 7x42 more. For now, I don't find 7x and 8x different enough to care about, so I use them interchangeably (I don't use 10x very often). Since few modern 7x offer a wider FOV than equivalent 8x models or my Zeiss 7x42 Classic, I pick 8x if I have to make a choice.

--AP

[J. Moore]

We all know the usual birdwatcher's choice is 8x42, but I read with regularity on here ravings for 7x42. The advantages being FOV, viewing ease etc. What do we think? Part of me agrees with this, but another, more mischievous part of me thinks these musings are akin to audiophile bores spouting on about bi-wiring and pre-amps! :-)

35 years ago seven power binoculars were considered the standard for birders. I used to think of people who used eight power binoculars as being eccentric. But the style now has definitely shifted towards eight power. I recently switched from using seven power binoculars to eight power, and find I appreciate the extra magnification. (Though perhaps part of it is in my mind; I at least think I am seeing a bit more detail). I have no problem sacrificing a modest amount of field of view.

I think whatever the standard is, there is going to be a minority advocating for something different. The minority plays a useful role in alerting people to the possibility of other choices, so they can consider them and find what they personally prefer.

My two cents,
Jim

[oleaf]

I love my meopta 7x42's!

The difference in magnification is negligible. Once you get used to them it's not a problem. But with all the great 8x's around I understand why they are not the best sellers. Seems hunters would need them more for the bigger exit pupil.

I like the fact they have a comfortable view (I can look around more) and the longer eye relief (I have glasses).

Think about this... I have a pair of Nikon 8x30 EII's where the FOV is so big the magnification seems like 6x! Like a small fish in a big pond.

If you are considering a 7x... you already know why you want it.

Cheers

[ceasar]

Tell ya what! List all your reason's why you think the binocular configuration you use is the best. If anyone thinks your musings are akin to those of "audiophile bores" they can ignore them!;)
Cordially,
Bob

[SteveF]

I think that the 'ravings' for 7x42 have been based on the few outstanding examples that have been available in this size (Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski), the wide field of view they usually have, and the larger exit pupil that increase the ease of acquisition and comfort. Except for higher power (which is a real gain, I think), the 8x42s have been second (almost always) in these three aspects.

[etc]

I find that I can hold 8x power without shaking. So no real need to get a 7x. But 7x is considerably easier to hold, there is even less shake. I thought I could hold 8x well, but 7x appears to be rock steady off-hand. I admit it is impressive.

If I could afford many Alpha binos, I would get all these configurations, like 8x42, 7x42, et cetera.

But as far as I can tell, 8x42 is the perfect all-around bino configuration. If you must have or carry only one, IMO this is the configuration to get. It does nothing particularly well, but a compromise choice.

In my opinion, 7x power would go really well with a smaller objective, between 30-35m.. of course 7x35mm was the classic birding combo some years ago, and for a reason: The exit pupil size is 5mm, basically the same as in 8x42. Sometimes you see these original Trinovids in 7x35 on ebay. I would love to purchase 7x32mm if the big three (four) made such a thing, updated with latest coatings and light-weight frame. It would be a great, light, bright, compact, have good ER, easy to use bino and just about perfect for all-around use.

But if I carry around a heavy 42mm objective bino, I would like to have at least 8x power in it. I am OK with the generous 5.25mm exit pupil size.

On the same note, retaining the 5mm exit pupil size as the ideal, 6x30mm would be another great configuration in addition to 7x35, 8x42, 10x50.

But 7x42 ought to be really nice brightness-wise due to 6mm exit pupil size. It has to contribute to ease of use and brightness. To quote wikipedia:



Image brightness and clarity

In a system designed for direct visual observation, the exit pupil should be about the size of the pupil of the observer's eye, and it should be placed a comfortable distance past the eyepiece, so the observer can place his or her pupil in the plane of the exit pupil. This allows the maximum amount of light to reach the retina, and the image is not vignetted.

For example, a set of 7 x 50 binoculars has an exit pupil just over 7 mm, the average human eye pupil size at night. The emergent light at the eyepiece then fills the eye's pupil, meaning no loss of brightness at night due to using such binoculars (assuming perfect transmission). In daylight, when the pupil is only 4 mm in diameter, over half the light will not reach the retina. However, the loss of light in the daytime is generally not significant since there is so much light to start with. By contrast, 8 x 32 binoculars, often sold with emphasis on their compactness, have an exit pupil of only 4 mm. That's just enough to fill a typical daytime eye pupil, making these binoculars better suited to daytime use than night-time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_pupil

[black lark]

when you are a serious birder you want a 10x42 !!!

[Pinewood]

There is neither a perfect choice for all users nor for all conditions! Every binocular is a package of compromises. For daytime use my best is both a 7x42 and a 10x32. However, I generally carry just an 8x32.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :brains:

[iporali]

If you don't mind large size and heavy weight, the 7x42s are probably the best... underpowered binoculars.

Ilkka

[martin kitching]

when you are a serious birder you want a 10x42 !!!

I spend most of my waking moments birding

I own my own wildlife tour company

I've found some very, very good birds

I'm a former editor of a very highly rated annual report

but

(hangs head in shame)

I only ever use 7x42

What would life be like if I was really serious???;)

cheers
martin

[Bubbs]

when you are a serious birder you want a 10x42 !!!

But not when you get older. The smaller field of view ot 10's magnifies our natural shake. Oh to be young ;) (and I'm not that old)

[richt]

I was a 10 x user at the outset of my optical beginnings and its only now i really appreciate the 8 x and later the 7 x mags
If you can hold a 10 x wide field binocular nice and steady then these are excellent eg 10 x 35 Nikon e11 or Ziess 10 x 50 Jenoptem
Strangely enough though i had one of the most memorable days ever nature watching last year on the Everglades in Florida and used a 7 x42 Fujinon Roof prism all day
Much of what i observed was fairly close in and i just loved the steady easy view
It takes all sorts i think in the optics world and its so dependent on what your are viewing

Why not have a 7 x 8x and 10 x if the budget can stretch
If not then overall maybe 8 x 42 is the best combo

Regards
Rich T

[Sancho]

7x? 8x? 10x? 12x? It kind of all depends on how far away the birds are.......;)

[michaelboustead]

But not when you get older. The smaller field of view ot 10's magnifies our natural shake. Oh to be young ;) (and I'm not that old)

Isn't that the truth and what about thick eyeglasses and bifocals. Also 7x are easier to use one handed, sounds stupid but sometimes I need on hand just to grab on to something to keep steady.

Mike

[Paskman]

when you are a serious birder you want a 10x42 !!!
I thought that the opposite was true and you wanted a lower power, it is only the newbies who like high power!!! I suspect that it is each to his own at whatever the experience.;)

Paul

[Phil Bishop]

Swings and roundabouts. I have had a pair of Zeiss 7x42 for 17 years now and love the field of view, depth of field and the comparatively light weight. Still use them on a regular basis.
However there are some situations where I need extra reach and a scope isnt always practical-butterflies, quick trips to the local pits, loaded up with camera gear etc, so bought a pair of Nikon 10x42HGs. These I use most of the time.
Do fancy the new Leica 8x32 Ultravids though. Nice FOV, very compact and very close focussing.

[Bubbs]

But what is the all important close focus of the wonder bins... the Zeiss 7x???

[iveljay]

Get some Pentax Papillios 6.5x and you get all the close focus you could ever want!
As Sancho said......

J

[FrankD]

After alot of buying, owning and selling various bins of countless configurations I find the 7x42 to be my favorite. As mentioned previously, the exeptionally wide field of view, the excellent depth of field, the brightness of the image and the comfort of the 6 mm exit pupil all add up to provide a truly stunning image.

At no time have I ever felt "underpowered" by my choice of 7x42s.

I enjoy them so much that I eventually had to buy a second pair as a backup. They are just too good in my opinion.

[The Devil Bird]

I personally prefer 10x42 binoculars, but thats probably just because I've never had anything else. For me, 8x is acceptable but anything lower than that is just too low for me.

[lvn600]

After trying all the major top guns I thought that I had made my mind up.-Leica just didn't fit right for me.-I did not like 8x32's as much as 42's or 40's.-I finally firmly concluded that Swarovski 8.5x42 EL gave me the best view--until today. I tried Zeiss 7x42 binoculars and wow! what an incredible view! -Now I will be torn between the two.
The Zeiss have a better close focus and faster focusing wheel.-The Swarovski seem to be more solid and I like the grip design.-The view from both are outstanding.-The Zeiss might be ever so slightly brighter and sharper but I hate to give up that extra 1.5 magnification.-tough choice

[Tero]

I never liked 7x. You could give me a free Big Three 7x and I would go and sell it.

[David Caudwell]

If you are talking about 7x mag amongst the top brands, save yourself £900 and simply take a couple of steps nearer!! ;)
Seriously though, I would rarely find 7x enough if that was my only binocular. I've birded for years with 8x30s and find that a good compromise between magnification, brightness, weight, handling, , FOV etc.
...still, there are times when I wish I had the extra power... As one of my friends says: you'll always see more with a 10! In terms of magnification at least, more is definitely MORE, and a 10x magnifies the image over 40% more than a 7x!! All other factors being equal (quality of optics etc) even in low light a 10x will resolve more detail than a much brighter 7x simply because it brings you closer.
Having said that, I find now, in my mid 40s, that 10's are increasingly tiring to use. The narrower FOV, depth of focus and more apparent shake all conspire towards eye fatigue after several hours in the field.
As 50 approaches I suspect the appeal of 7x will become irresistable...what a relaxing view...even if middle-distance birds seem miles away ;)
For now, I'm hanging on to my eights!

[lucznik]

I never liked 7x. You could give me a free Big Three 7x and I would go and sell it.


Ha Ha! I always did like you Tero. Tellin' it like it is!! :king:

By the way +1 on Tero's comment here.

[martin kitching]

All other factors being equal (quality of optics etc) even in low light a 10x will resolve more detail than a much brighter 7x simply because it brings you closer.

In low light conditions exit pupil diameter becomes increasingly important so it's counter-intuitive to suggest that a brighter 7x will necessarily resolve less detail than a 10x.

cheers
martin

[David Caudwell]

Hi Martin,
Agreed, greater exit pupil diameter gives a brighter image in low light, but I'll have to refer you to Kimmo and others on the forum who can explain far better than I can how greater magnification will still offer you greater resolving power. I think there might be something on this in one of Kimmo's Alula reviews? Or was it over at Better View Desired?
Or maybe I just misunderstood the whole concept! ...won't be the first time ;)
Best Wishes,
Dave C

[iporali]

Or maybe I just misunderstood the whole concept! ...wont be the first time ;)
Best Wishes,
Dave C

Dave,

No, you are right. Extra power IS beneficial even in low light and at the expense of exit pupil - unless handshake destroys the extra details.

Best regards,

Ilkka


Edit: The link to Alula's test of Canon 15x50IS binoculars
http://www.alula.fi/gb/test_canon15x50.html

[FrankD]

I never liked 7x. You could give me a free Big Three 7x and I would go and sell it.

That is funny Tero. I am just the opposite now. I just cannot bring myself to purchase anything greater than 8x...definitely not a 10x. I just haven't found a single situation where the 10x shows me something that the 7x doesn't. Throw in the comfort factor of the 7x and it is a no-brainer...for my personal preferences.

If I ever did go with another 10x then it would have to be a 10x50. 10x42s are borderline and 10x30s are out of the question. That increasingly smaller exit pupil just makes it less and less comfortable for me to use regularly.

[Kumlieni]

when you are a serious birder you want a 10x42 !!!

Additional power cannot replace skill. Use a good 7x42 and carry a scope if you are still drooling for more power. A scope with a fixed 30x eyepiece, not a @!%$ zoom.

[iporali]

... not a @!%$ zoom.

You mean... until Nikon releases that new zoom... ;)

Ilkka

[Bob A (SD)]

After alot of buying, owning and selling various bins of countless configurations I find the 7x42 to be my favorite. As mentioned previously, the exeptionally wide field of view, the excellent depth of field, the brightness of the image and the comfort of the 6 mm exit pupil all add up to provide a truly stunning image.

At no time have I ever felt "underpowered" by my choice of 7x42s.
They are just too good in my opinion.


Completely agree. Then again at 60, I'm quite willing to allow the eye age factor to be heavily weighted. My standard go to bins are:
-- Minox 6.5x32 BD IF roof
-- vintage Binolux LiteWeight EWA 7x35 11° TFOV porro
-- Swarovski SLC 7x42 roof
-- Leupold Yosemite 8x30 porro
-- Pentax DCF-WP 8x32 roof
-- vintage Leupold Gold Ring #52277 9x35 IF porro

Just shipped off my circa '83-'87 Gold Rings to Leupold for collimation and a general servicing. Gotta love their free lifetime service policy :)

--Bob