mid-priced bright and sharp 10x

[buff]

After owning some 15 binos I noticed that brightness and sharpness are probably most important to me, most of these bins are 6x-8x binos and they gave me good performance for the money. Best I own is Pentax DCF WP 8x42, but I wanted more power so I went for 10x and bought Minox IF 9.5x42 which was not satisfactory: colors appear pale, terrible stray-light suppression, in some situations you see circle of white light at the edge, and bad eye-releif, which was supposed to be 19mm, constantly press bino against eye-glass. My next 10x was Fuji CD which gives very good performance in middle of sunny day, bright and sharp but as soon as bright day turns to overcast bino turns noticably and distractingly dim. I actualy get impression as though bino is not FMC and phase coated, image turns from bright to yellow.
I have never owned alpha bino and I doubt I ever will, so my question is what mid-priced 10x bino can you suggest me. How much diffrence is there supposed to be in terms of brightness between 8x42 and 10x42?

Thanx.

[J. Moore]

The Vortex Viper 10 x 42 is often considered to be the brightest and sharpest midpriced 10 power binocular out there. Check out the comments in this thread:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=68081

But an 8 x 42 is going to be brighter. I recall one thread here in which it was reported that the Viper 8 x 42 was noticeably brighter than even the Swarovski EL 10 x 42.

I use the Viper 8 x 42 myself. I prefer eight power binoculars. The 8 x 42 has excellent eye relief, but I am not sure about the 10 x 42 -- it is listed at 16.5 mm. Reviews recommend even the 10 x 42 viper for eyeglass wearers though.

Hope this helps,
Jim

[Sancho]

Hi Buff, if you really want to treat yourself to top-class 10x optics at a lower than middle range price, get yourself a pair of Nikon EII 10x35. I got a pair a few months ago and can only agree with all the wonderful things that have been said about them. Optics as good as "top of the range" 10x bins I have owned, much smaller, much lighter, equally as sharp and bright, much wider FOV. The downside is they're not waterproof, they're porros (if you consider that a downside!) and they aren't widely available anymore. But there are a few online stores that still have some, Acecameras of Bath in the UK is one. Apparently they are also still on sale in Japan. They cost me about 370 euro.

[Renze de Vries]

10.5x44 Kowa XD ? You'll lose some brightness and depth of focus compared to the 8.5, but not that much.

Renze

[J. Moore]

10.5x44 Kowa XD ? You'll lose some brightness and depth of focus compared to the 8.5, but not that much.

Renze

At $1329 U.S., that is not what I would consider mid-priced. A recent review of midpriced binoculars in an American magazine looked at binoculars priced $300-$800 U.S. It is also quite heavy. (34 ounces).

Jim

[trashbird]

The difference in brightness between an 8x42 and a 10x42 is about the same as the difference between an 8x42 and an 8x32. And many people will tell you that 8x32s have good enough brightness for most daytime birding.

But midprice 10x42s ($300-$500) have other optical drawbacks. Most in this price range have less eye relief and less field of view than 8x42s. So if you are set on 10x, you are going to have to make some compromises -- but brightness won't be the biggest one.

If I were to get a mid-price 10x42 right now, I would look for ones with the newest coating technologies: phase coating, silver-coated prisms, and the new multi-multi-coatings (manufacturers have different names for this, High Resolution Coatings, etc.). It's amazing what these new coatings can do for brightness.

[Renze de Vries]

Excuse me Jim, top-price vs. mid-price ratio for the Kowa XD is somewhat different in Europe. That is, better.

R

[J. Moore]

Another option worth considering is the Vortex Razor 10 x 42. $770 U. S., but it is supposed to be optically a cut above the very well reviewed Vortex Viper 10 x 42; however, it is also heavier, coming in at 29 ounces. I think these both have the types of coatings trashbird is referring to.

Jim

[ceasar]

If you act quickly you can still get a Nikon 10 x 42 SE Porro Prism for money in your mid-price range. It's optical performance will blow all of your other mid-price range Roof Prisms away! Read about it in this Alula review of top end 10 x 42's: http://www.alula.fi/GB/ Click on "Optics" and see January 2004 review.

Bob

[buff]

I looked at EII but I wear glasses so I think I won't get full field of view. How would you compare the following 10x: 1st group: Pentax DCF WPII, Celestron Regal, EO Ranger, Bushnell Legend (roof)

2nd group 10x; Pentax DCF SP vs. Viper, DCF ED vs. Vortex Razor

I read all about Nikon SE series and I would like to get them but I would like to pay less and get the value for the money.

Regards.[/I]

[P H]

I have the Stokes Talon 8x42 made by Vortex. They are bright, sharp, waterproof nowadays you don't have to pay a fortune for decent binos. I had other binos costing twice the price of the Talon but no way twice as good. I'd agree with Jim and look at the Vortex range. I'm looking for a pair of 8x32 and narrowed it down to Minox BL, Kowa also like the Nikon Monarchs 8x36 which get good reviews.

P H

[P H]

I have the Stokes Talon 8x42 made by Vortex. They are bright, sharp, waterproof nowadays you don't have to pay a fortune for decent binos. I had other binos costing twice the price of the Talon but no way twice as good. I'd agree with Jim and look at the Vortex range. I'm looking for a pair of 8x32 and narrowed it down to Minox BL, Kowa also like the Nikon Monarchs 8x36 which get good reviews.

P H

Meant to include Vortex Fury 8x32 as well and none of these binos cost more than £300 UK Price. :t:

[MacGee]

I looked at EII but I wear glasses so I think I won't get full field of view...I read all about Nikon SE series and I would like to get them but I would like to pay less and get the value for the money.Another porro that will give close to alpha performance for a medium price is the Leupold Cascades (http://www.leupold.com/observation/products/binoculars/cascades-series-internal-focus/cascades-10x42mm-internal-focus/). I use the Opticron 8x42 version with bifocals and it's excellent.

Michael

[J. Moore]

2nd group 10x; Pentax DCF SP vs. Viper, DCF ED vs. Vortex Razor

I read all about Nikon SE series and I would like to get them but I would like to pay less and get the value for the money.

Regards.[/i]

FYI: Eagle Optics now has both the Nikon SE 10 x 42 and the Nikon Premier LXL 10 x 32 (I do not see the 10 x 42 listed) discounted to $800 U.S. Not sure if this is out of your price range. I cannot find a review comparing these to the new Vortex binoculars, so I do not know how they would stack up. One informal review found the Premier line superior to the SE (http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/nikon_superior.html). The SE is also not waterproof.

With respect to your second group, one review comparing mostly eight power binoculars found the Viper superior to the Pentax DCF SP and the Leupold Cascade Porros, and optically as good as the more expensive Pentax DCF ED. The vortex razor was ranked slightly better than all of these: http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2007roundup/chart_main_extended.html (http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2007roundup/chart_main_extended.html)
(note, however, that this review is not based on objective tests, but on rankings by a group of birders).

Hope this helps,
Jim

[ceasar]

Jim,
The Nikon 10 x 32 HGL/LXL is also reviewed in the Alula Review I linked in thread #9 above. They got an excellent rating.
Bob

[Steve C]

Buff,
I have the Viper 10x42 and I really like it. I do not wear glasses except for reading, so I really can't speak for the eye relief. All I can say there is that they give me full field of view when I use them while wearing sunglasses or just for kicks trying them while wearing my reading glasses. It is pretty amazing how bright they are for the price paid. I've yet to wish they were just a little bit better. They will be perfectly adequate for probably 98-99% of needs. There is some optical difference in favor of the higher end binoculars compared to the Viper, but for me the obscene price you must pay for the improvement you get is simply not worth it. The main differences that exist between the Razor and Viper is that the Razor has a noticeably wider FOV and is better in resolution at distance than the Viper. The Stokes Talon is optically indistingushable from the Razor. It is a tad lighter, has a tad less FOV, and has a different feel from the Razor, depending on what you prefer.

However the real bargin right now amongst the really good binoculars of the world is right now found with the Leupold Gold Ring HD binoculars. Their price at Eagle Optics has gone to the $750.00 range, down from $1,200. It does not appear that Leupold is discontinuing them. The Gold Rings, to me are pretty much optically indistinguishable from the rest of the high end binoculars. They are heavier than the average binocular, but well balanced. So, if that is in your definition of "mid-priced" ,I would reccomend giving them a good hard look. Take a look at them and try to convince yourself you are not holding a Kowa. That is just about the same price as the Razor. If you really need to stay in the $500.00 range, get the Viper and don't look back.

Steve

[FrankD]

Ditto on the Viper suggestion for both excellent brightness and a fairly sharp image. I was shocked one day when I compared the Vipers to the Razors only to find the Vipers appeared brighter. Keep in mind I was comparing the 8xs though.

Depending on what you consider "mid-price" I would suggest looking at the Cabelas Euros/Meopta Meostar. Basically the same bin the Euros can be had in the $800 price range and offer excellent performance across the board (brightness, sharpness, flat, well corrected field of view). Their only partial downside is they weigh in at around 30 ounces.

[burdup]

I have had my Leupold Golden Rings for a couple of weeks now and love them! They are heavy, and the finish is a little slick when your hands are cold, but what a nice view they have.

The bins were probably were not selling very well in the 'alpha class' price range which could explain the price drop. I would not have bought them at $1200US either, I would have went with a 'proven' binocular. But when I compared them in the store with the 'Z' and 'S' there was no reason not to save myself a thousand bucks.

Good luck if you want a pair. Most retailers with the price reduction have them on backorder due to their sudden popularity, you may get them in time for spring migration!

[buff]

Thanx or all your help, there is a wildbird store some 25km from where
I live I'll go and check out Viper and probably something diffrent.

Regards.

[buff]

burdup, just to clarify you were talking about 10x leupold GR?
I have read that people aresaying good thing about 8x power but I never found a review of 10x Leupold GR.

[lucznik]

I just bought an 8x42 Leupold Gold Ring for $500 from the Sportsman's Warehouse Outlet Store found on ebay. It is scheduled (according to UPS) to arrive Monday. I can tell this weekend is just going to drag on and on (not to mention work on Monday.) These are gone for now but, there are a few sellers still offering this same binocular for about $600 - which still isn't bad.

Eagle Optics' ebay store continues to offer Bushnell Elite refurbs in both 8x43 and 10x43 for under $500. They may be refurbs but, you won't be able to tell any difference and they retain the fully transferable lifetime-of-the-product warranty. I doubt you could find a much better deal than that.

[burdup]

burdup, just to clarify you were talking about 10x leupold GR?
I have read that people aresaying good thing about 8x power but I never found a review of 10x Leupold GR.
My mistake, I have the 8x. You are right, I too have not seen any comments or reviews of the 10x, but I looked at them before deciding on the eights...

[burdup]

I just bought an 8x42 Leupold Gold Ring for $500 from the Sportsman's Warehouse Outlet Store found on ebay. It is scheduled (according to UPS) to arrive Monday. I can tell this weekend is just going to drag on and on (not to mention work on Monday.) These are gone for now but, there are a few sellers still offering this same binocular for about $600 - which still isn't bad.

Eagle Optics' ebay store continues to offer Bushnell Elite refurbs in both 8x43 and 10x43 for under $500. They may be refurbs but, you won't be able to tell any difference and they retain the fully transferable lifetime-of-the-product warranty. I doubt you could find a much better deal than that.
Most likely the non-HD version, which is not a big deal since it is the binocular that got the great review anyway!

I am excited for you. Let me know how your Monday ends...

[stereotruckdriver]

Pentax DCF ED, there are some demo's at OP and I think Camera Land? Excellent in all categories, compare very well with the Alpha stuff.

[J. Moore]

FYI: Here is a review comparing the Vortex Viper with the Bushnell Elite and the Pentax DCF ED eight power binoculars (both of which models were just mentioned above). Though the Viper is considerably less expensive than both of these (though Luzcnik indicates refurbished elites are on sale at roughly the same price), it was found to be quite comparable to them in the review. Though the review is written by a vortex employee, I have found him to be quite objective in what he reports on his website. Moreover, the following chart from an independent reviewer shows similar results with respect to the Pentax: http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2007roundup/chart_main_extended.html

Best,
Jim

[buff]

I went to the store and returned home with Vipers. I tried various binos in the same price range but it was dificult to tell the diffrence in the store they all performed the same. At home I compered it to Fuji CD 10x. Viper is slim while CD is bulky, which suits my large hands just fine.
Viper's eye-relief (ER) is sufficient to give me full FOV, CD has short ER but I don't loose too much FOV and I don't have to press bino against glasses to get that insignificantly restricted FOV. Viper has excellent depth of view and CD is good but Viper is much better.
As I said earlier CD is dim in low light but actually I am not sure if it is dimness or yellow cast that is in question here. Viper is noticably brighter.
So far evrything is working in Vipers favor, but CD is sharper bino that, despite its yellow cast, gives clearer image. CD also seems to have a bit more magnification although both are 10x. CD's sharpness and clarity are its strong points, on the other hand Vipers brightnes, ER and light weight are Vipers strong ponts.
Image is most important in a binocular and Fuji gives me more pleasing image.
These two bino are in the same price range so they perform similarly. When I bought Viper I wanted bino that would give me same sharpness and clarity and improved brightness, so I could sell CD and keep the Viper. Viper did improve on every feature CD din't have, brightness, ER, bulk and weight, but could't match CD's strong points.

Overall I like CD a bit better and I think I will return the Viper.

I think that conclusion would be, to get same sharpness and clarity but improved brightness I would have to pay double the money. Because these two binos are in the same price range and that means similar performance.
So the search for more expensive bino begins.

[lucznik]

Most likely the non-HD version, which is not a big deal since it is the binocular that got the great review anyway!

I am excited for you. Let me know how your Monday ends...

You are correct, these are the non-HD version but, I knew that when I bought them. They arrived yesterday and, while I have not had a chance to really spend much time looking through them, my first impressions are very favorable. If the HD version is going to provide an improvement, then it will be a very small improvement indeed - not worth (to me) the hundreds of dollars more such an "upgrade" would cost.

In truth, I have had a difficult time reconciling myself to the HD/ED/Flourite glass in binoculars issue. When such glass first starting being advertised as being used in binoculars I distinctly remember reading on numerous forums, in magazines, etc. very technical, "high brow" discussions on how, because of the relatively low magnifications (10x and below) of standard binoculars, this high-end glass would provide no real visible benefit. Then more and more manufacturers started advertising the use of ED glass and now, some of the same people who declared its use as offering little or no benefit have made 180-degree turns and now declare most enthusiatically how important it is to have this special glass as it "really makes a difference" - especially in the case of the writer's personal pet-brand. ;)

I'm sure there is benefit to having HD lenses in a binocular. It might even be a noticeable difference. It definately is not a big enough difference to cause me any worry and both my wallet and my wife are much pleased at the fact that I was able to get a binocular I really wanted at such a steep discount.

[buff]

I ordered porro Swift ultralite 10x42 from B&H and it is the best 10x of all the I have owned so far. Image is clear and crisp, sharp and colors are vivid. Swift's overall image is better then either Viper or Fuji CD. One thing where swift performes noticably better than other two is how it penetrates shadowes. i looked at the dirty frame of the window across the street, which was in the shadow. While other two could resolve outer lines, Swift could clearly resolve inner lines left by water. Fuji has bit more magnification than other two but that is only advantage it has over Swift at least as far as I can tell.
Swift is made in China and it has quick focus, only 2/3 of a turn to go from minimum to infinity and it makes that whooshy sound just like Leupold Yosemiti.

[Tero]

I had a Fujinon 10x42 to try out. It was pretty ordinary. Japanese or not.

[buff]

Well, for long enough I've been longing for alpha bin but I couldn't afford it so on Monday I made decision to buy myself alpha bin that is in within my financial abilities so I had WBU in Guelph to order me Nikon SE 10x42 as a replacement for Vortex Viper. Today after compering Fuji CD 10x42 and Swift Ultralite porro 10x42, I returned home and found message that Nikon is in and I can come to pick it up. I came to the store 5 min. before closing and picked them up.
SE is well known and I will not give my impressions but I only tested it by looking at city scenery.
However I will say that Swift impressed me and I think that it is in one class above Fuji CD. As I said CD has little more magnification but Swift beats it with its neutral and vivid color, clarity and crispness, which gives better overall image.
I don't see how can SE be much better than Swift but I did notice that SE is sharp in some 80% FOV while Swift is realy sharp in some 30% FOV beyond that it is marginally less sharp to some 60-70% FOV and beyond that it is noticably less sharp. I will test them side by side in a week or two, but I will not get rid of Swift I will keep it as a spare and Fuji will go to another owner.

[keithdrengen]

The Nikon e2 10x35 is - ...much smaller... - than other high end bins? Ain´t they just "only" as big as the roofs in the high range, though maybe lighter?

Carsten..