Heuglin's Gull

[Blackstart]

Hi all-

Please forgive my ignorance, but is Heuglin's Gull now universally regarded as a full species?

Thanks.

-Adam

[Tim Allwood]

in a word, no

maybe someone with more time could give Adam some more info on the current taxo situation?

[Blackstart]

Thanks, Tim.

From what I've managed to find on the internet, I gather that only Baltic Gull split off from the rest of the Lesser Black-backeds?

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Adam,
As far as I know,most taxonomic authorities still regard heuglini as being a subspecies of Lesser Black-backed Gull(interestingly,this form was traditionally regarded as a subspecies of Herring Gull!)
I think that it has been split as Heuglin's Gull in some quarters,but I'd be a lot slower to advocate such a radical move than I would with the proposed splitting of Yellow-legged and Caspian Gulls from the Herring Gull group(I concede,however,that this is just my "gut feeling" based on morphology/breeding biology,and that Heuglin's may have every bit as good a case for being a species as these two,or even a better one!).
Of course,heuglini is VERY similar in appearance to graellsii,as can be seen here:
http://www.surfbirds.com/mb/Features/gulls/baltic-heuglins-gulls.html
http://www.martinreid.com/heuginx.html
Harry H

[sparrowbirder]

Saw an article in birding world a while ago were heuglins was classed as a species (Larus heuglini) it was about gull watching in Japan,I suppose Birding world is a law unto itself when it comes to taonomic decisions though!!

[Charles Harper]

Current classification as far as Japanese experts and publications are concerned is Larus heuglini, with subspecies taimyrensis a regular winter visitor, nominate ssp. heugleni a rare winter visitor or vagrant. I record taimyrensis once or twice annually in winter in the Tokyo area, and am ready to tick it as a full species as soon as I am allowed to.

[sparrowbirder]

Seem to remenber kamchatka gull had been split too charles,is this the consensus opinion!!

[Jasonbirder]

As far as i`m aware status is pending but reccomendation is a split of Heuglins away from Lesser Black-backed Gull, wasn`t aware of a move to split Baltic away from Lesser Black-backed tho....
Liklihood is for an armchair tick at some point but not for taimyrensis....

[Tim Allwood]

Jase has covered it pretty well but what I can work out from a quick perusal of relevant stuff is:

A possible split to Heuglin's from current graellsii with Heuglin's to include barabensis, heuglini and taimyrensis although a few do not even recognise taimyrensis as a valid taxon!

A possible further split of the remaining Lesser Black-back into Baltic (fuscus) and Lesser Black-back (graellsii)
though this is also contentious

Steppe Gull (barabensis) split doesn't seem to be on the cards as this form is very similar way to heuglini in a similar that graellsii is similar to fuscus. Their mitochondrial DNA is very similar too implying I think a recentish connection

[Charles Harper]

From what sources I can muster, Andy, kamtschatschensis (good grief, could that be spelled right?) is still considered a spp. of Mew (Common) Gull. By the way, and before this topic dies completely, of considerable authority here is the discussion of the Herring Gull complex in the Hong Kong Bird Report for 1994, which posits its own opinions, but wisely discusses the taxa by single nomial (heugleni, cachinnans, birulai etc.) only.

[sparrowbirder]

Charles,do you do much gull watching youself, as I stated earlier saw a really interesting article in birding world about gulls in japan,looks to be a really interesting place for gullophiles!! even the japanese race of kittiwake could be geting specific status,apparantly it is darker ,with a different wingtip pattern, all of interest in case one wanders our way (black tailed gull already recorded in E USA)

[Charles Harper]

Yes and no, Andy. Every January 1st and 2nd, I blitz the Pacific coast, and go through several thousand gulls in order to list ridibundus, crassirostris, canus, argentatus (vegae), schistagus, glaucescens, hyperboreus, tridactyla, saundersi, and if I'm lucky cachinnans (mongolicus) and heugleni. Then I essentially forget about gulls. Normally all we get around here is Black-headed, Black-tailed and Vega Gulls the rest of the year.

'Gulls in Japan' is in Birding World Vol. 13 No. 4, and I have put in an order for a copy, if they have it in stock. Thanks for mentioning it. And I'll check out the Kittiwakes more closely this January, too!

[smiths]

Hello,
you all seem to like to speculate about gull taxonomy...
There is, however, a useful recent document, which summarizes the results of recent taxonomic research:
http://www.aerc.be/aerc_tac.htm
The release of this document has also been announced elsewhere on this forum.
It is hoped that these taxonomic recommendations will be followed by most, or all European countries, since they were proposed by a committee of taxonomic researchers from various European countries.
In the document, both heuglini and fuscus are treated as subspecies of Lesser Black-backed Gull. This is good news for birders, since telling these forms from graellsii/intermedius in the field is just a nightmare. :t: