Vortex Viper and Audubon HHS 8.5x44 info.

[WHIMBREL]

Are the Vortex Viper 8x42 and the Audubon HHS 8.5x44 roof binoculars virtually the same optics in different coats?

Bill

[Steve C]

No they are not the same. I've never done a side by side, but I'd say the Viper is a somewhat brighter and sharper glass. The New Swift Eaglet is probably brighter and sharper than the HHS Audubon as well.

Steve

[WHIMBREL]

No they are not the same. I've never done a side by side, but I'd say the Viper is a somewhat brighter and sharper glass. The New Swift Eaglet is probably brighter and sharper than the HHS Audubon as well.

Steve

Thank you Steve, here in the UK the Vortex brand are hardly known, Audabon is also a 'fringe' choice among UK birders.

I checked out the Audubon HHS 8.5x44 at our Bird Fair (the World's biggest) last August and was quite impressed with the quality for the money. If the Vortex Viper is as you suggest a better glass they must be pretty special for the price, and well worth a look, however finding a local dealer could prove a bit of a problem.

Would you purchase the Viper rather than the HHS?

Bill

[Steve C]

Bill,

I suppose that I would prefer the Viper. For the money they cost, which is about 1/3 of what you have to fork over for one of the premium binoculars, you get about 95-98% of the way to the upper echelon. For some folks, that price difference may be worth it, but not to me. The Viper is one mid priced glass that I would nominate as a best value for the money. The Swift Eaglet series is another. The HHS 8.5x44 is a real good glass and would probably cause you no great regret over not purchasing a Viper. The Viper is outstanding in the degree pof brightness it achieves in its price class, and that is what you would likely notice as the main difference between the two.

Steve

[Greysands boy]

Hi Steve,

Just recently bought the Viper 8x42's from http://www.sherwoods-photo.com/homepage.htm for £259.00 and couldnt be happier tried them locally agianst many other more expensive models which i had saved for but still bought the vortex's for there great brightness and build quality.
I cant comment on the audubons but in my opinion you will not be dissapointed with the vipers.

Also the vipers warranty is at present without doubt the best around which is a sure fire way to know there confident in there product.

Cheers

Darryl

[oleaf]

I believe these two are from the same factory. Except Vortex specs better detail on the focus knob and diopter control.

See the results here. http://www.optyczne.pl//index.php?test=lornetki&test_lo=15&roz=2 10 and 11. The specs are too close.

Anyone think differently? Vipers are made in Japan. Olympus is the better deal.

Cheers

[J. Moore]

I believe these two are from the same factory. Except Vortex specs better detail on the focus knob and diopter control.

See the results here. http://www.optyczne.pl//index.php?test=lornetki&test_lo=15&roz=2 10 and 11. The specs are too close.

Anyone think differently? Vipers are made in Japan. Olympus is the better deal.

Cheers

Hello Oleaf,

A lot of roof prism binoculars look similar. And as you note, these do not look identical. Moreover, the specs I find on the Internet are close but different. There are different specifications for field of view, minimum focusing distance, physical dimensions, eye relief, etc. And all the specifications are slightly better for the more expensive Viper. I can also find no indication that the Olympus has a locking diopter.

But given the good optical test results for the Olympus, they might be worth looking into if you want to spend less.

Best,
Jim

[oleaf]

I don't know J.

I know you're a rabid Vortex fan (and the Vortex Vipers are really nice) but the Polish test I supplied rated the Olympus 10x42 above the Viper 10x42. I understand the Viper 10x42 is very, very nice. So, the Olympus might be the only inexpensive Bino to best the Vipers (tells you something right there)

But, I think these are twins under the covers. The Olympus are made in Japan and so are the Vipers. And the size and placement of controls is identical. The specs are very close as well. Don't fall for the extra mm of eye relief or 4 ft of FOV... I'm just talking about GISS here.

It's not a secret Vortex doesn't make there own bins. They contract out to the manufacturer who will provide the spec they need. There are not that many quality manufacturers. Same with Leupold (except Gold rings), Bushnell, Carson, Steiner, Minox... on and on.

Surprising how certain brands can add $150-200 more for the same bin. Look at Minox.

What do I know.

Cheers

[J. Moore]

I know you're a rabid Vortex fan (and the Vortex Vipers are really nice)

I am not sure I would describe myself quite that way. ;-) I frequently recommend them on this forum mostly because many people have not heard of them and their better models were only recently introduced to the market. If another company came up with a better price/performance line of binoculars, I would be happy to shut up about Vortex.

I would also note that the Olympus binoculars you are discussing have been around at least since 2003 I believe. The Vipers came out in 2006.

Best,
Jim

[Steve C]

The Vipers are advertised as having HD glass. I have not seen any mention of this for the Olympus binoculars. I would suspect that as probably being the main reason for the price difference between the two. There is some debate over the real value of HD/ED glass in typical binocular magnification ranges. Not only do the two binoculars look alike, but there are lots of mid price glass that look very similar between brands. If one were to look, there are probably 3-4 generic housings that get used on many different brands. It is very likely that they may even be made in the same factory, but I think every "manufacturer" will tweak their desired specifications a little in some attempt to seperate themselves from the pack. The "wow" factor in binoculars today, for me at least, has come to reside in the mid-price roof prism binoculars, say in the US $300-500 range. I've never seen an Olympus binocular, but my Vipers are far and away brighter than any other glass in the above referenced price range that I have looked at.

Steve

[WHIMBREL]

Bill,

I suppose that I would prefer the Viper. For the money they cost, which is about 1/3 of what you have to fork over for one of the premium binoculars, you get about 95-98% of the way to the upper echelon. For some folks, that price difference may be worth it, but not to me. The Viper is one mid priced glass that I would nominate as a best value for the money. The Swift Eaglet series is another. The HHS 8.5x44 is a real good glass and would probably cause you no great regret over not purchasing a Viper. The Viper is outstanding in the degree pof brightness it achieves in its price class, and that is what you would likely notice as the main difference between the two.

Steve

Steve,

Once again thank you for your input, and to the rest of you gents who have also contributed to this thread, my appreciation.

I recently saw 68 yes that's correct, sixty eight binocular 'brands' on one internet site, now is that choice or confusing? Your input into this post alone has indicated that hardly anyone knows who actually makes what anymore. This I should imagine is a prime reason why so many of us stick to the tried and tested, ie the big four.

I still believe however that there are superb optics available to anyone who does not want to pay the premium prices asked by the major manufactures, and these 'realistically priced optics' will continue to get a bigger share of the market as technology progresses...just watch the Chinese brands in the future.

Regards,

Bill

[elkcub]

I believe these two are from the same factory. Except Vortex specs better detail on the focus knob and diopter control.

See the results here. http://www.optyczne.pl//index.php?test=lornetki&test_lo=15&roz=2 10 and 11. The specs are too close.

Anyone think differently? Vipers are made in Japan. Olympus is the better deal.

Cheers

Hi oleaf,

The chart shown at that website is the most complete I've ever seen. Thirty-one 10x42 models in all. But, I don't know the language.

The reason I'm so impressed is that I fully agree with the overall rank ordering of the ten or so models I'm familiar with. Can you translate how the comparison was done, or how the test scores were arrived at?

Thanks,
Elk

[henry link]

Ed,

Some of the testing was explained in English here:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=binoculars&Number=690714&Forum=,,f33,,&Words=polish&Searchpage=2&Limit=25&Main=690714&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=4&newertype=y&olderval=2&oldertype=y&bodyprev=#Post690714

I don't agree with a number of these test methods (some changes may have been made since 2005), but this is clearly a serious effort. I usually don't like rankings, but this ranking system at least has the advantage of being detailed enough for the reader to manipulate the weighting system to conform to his own priorities. I find, for instance, that if I simply accept the findings but eliminate all the performance categories that I consider unimportant then the #1 ranked binocular is the Nikon 10x42SE.

Henry

[elkcub]

Thanks, Henry. I agree that it's desirable to use personal category weights for overall ratings. But, they can't be too far off my own with the 10x42 SLC coming out in #2 position, above the EL.

Ed

[J. Moore]

I recently saw 68 yes that's correct, sixty eight binocular 'brands' on one internet site, now is that choice or confusing? Your input into this post alone has indicated that hardly anyone knows who actually makes what anymore. This I should imagine is a prime reason why so many of us stick to the tried and tested, ie the big four.

I still believe however that there are superb optics available to anyone who does not want to pay the premium prices asked by the major manufactures, and these 'realistically priced optics' will continue to get a bigger share of the market as technology progresses...just watch the Chinese brands in the future.

Bill,

Have you read much in the way of binocular reviews/rankings? That is what I use to try to simplify the choices and cut through the noise that can get overwhelming on a forum like this. Of course, no ranking or review is perfect, and they may not always reflect what you prefer, but I personally think they are the best place to start. In addition to the one from the Polish site discussed above, there are several others that you may find useful. Here is a partial list from my collection of links. These are all American with American prices, so you will have to translate.

http://www.birdwatching.com/optics.html
There are a number of excellent articles on this page. In particular, check out the Midpriced Binocular Roundup link with the accompanying chart, as well as the "Binocular Picks for Every Price Range" chart.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/buying_guide.asp?cid=4
The above is a list of Eagle Optics (a very well respected American optics dealer) "staff picks" for birding binoculars in various price ranges.

http://www.birddigiscoping.com/2006/12/closer-look-at-binoculars-advice-from.html
If you scroll down to the bottom of this page, you will see a list of binocular picks for various price ranges. The author works for Vortex Optics, though I think he is actually very objective in his opinions.

There are also various sites with out of date information. I would take their recommendations with a grain of salt because they do not include consideration of more recent models such as those from Vortex, but they have some good info:

http://www.betterviewdesired.com/index.php

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/Publications/LivingBird/Winter2005/Age_Binos.html

Hope this helps,
Jim

[WHIMBREL]

Bill,

Have you read much in the way of binocular reviews/rankings? That is what I use to try to simplify the choices and cut through the noise that can get overwhelming on a forum like this. Of course, no ranking or review is perfect, and they may not always reflect what you prefer, but I personally think they are the best place to start. In addition to the one from the Polish site discussed above, there are several others that you may find useful. Here is a partial list from my collection of links. These are all American with American prices, so you will have to translate.

http://www.birdwatching.com/optics.html
There are a number of excellent articles on this page. In particular, check out the Midpriced Binocular Roundup link with the accompanying chart, as well as the "Binocular Picks for Every Price Range" chart.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/buying_guide.asp?cid=4
The above is a list of Eagle Optics (a very well respected American optics dealer) "staff picks" for birding binoculars in various price ranges.

http://www.birddigiscoping.com/2006/12/closer-look-at-binoculars-advice-from.html
If you scroll down to the bottom of this page, you will see a list of binocular picks for various price ranges. The author works for Vortex Optics, though I think he is actually very objective in his opinions.

There are also various sites with out of date information. I would take their recommendations with a grain of salt because they do not include consideration of more recent models such as those from Vortex, but they have some good info:

http://www.betterviewdesired.com/index.php

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/Publications/LivingBird/Winter2005/Age_Binos.html

Hope this helps,
Jim

Jim,

Many thanks for taking time out to provide a most helpful set of links, I have in the past perused some of these sites, but again many of the optics on test are hard to come by in the UK, so we rarely get the opportunity to compare many models let alone field-test them.

I heartily agree with you that 'some of the noise' can get overwhelming on this forum, but also believe (as perhaps you do) that it is a wonderful source of indepedent advice and information on most things 'optic'.

It is my intention to spend a little more time on your most welcomed set of links, and in particular those that I am unfamiliar with.

My best wishes and thanks again.

Bill

[Greysands boy]

Bill

Just one bit of advice from me, the best way in my opinion is put aside the money you are willing to spend, Then go and test differant pairs even if its just poking your head out the shop door and looking up and down the street,
The Rankings and personel reviews are very helpful but there is really no substitute in getting the glass in your hands and trying them, it surprised me how quickly you could get either a nice or not so nice feel about the binoculars e.g how heavy, bulky, comfortable in hand , build quality etc , and of course what image they produce optically.
After doing exactly that i still bought the Vipers for £259.00 even tho i had tried many more expensive pairs and had a budget of about £600-£700 to spend.
After a month or so and using them in all conditions i can honestly say i dont regret my purchase one bit.

Cheers

Darryl

[WHIMBREL]

Bill

Just one bit of advice from me, the best way in my opinion is put aside the money you are willing to spend, Then go and test differant pairs even if its just poking your head out the shop door and looking up and down the street,
The Rankings and personel reviews are very helpful but there is really no substitute in getting the glass in your hands and trying them, it surprised me how quickly you could get either a nice or not so nice feel about the binoculars e.g how heavy, bulky, comfortable in hand , build quality etc , and of course what image they produce optically.
After doing exactly that i still bought the Vipers for £259.00 even tho i had tried many more expensive pairs and had a budget of about £600-£700 to spend.
After a month or so and using them in all conditions i can honestly say i dont regret my purchase one bit.

Cheers

Darryl

Darryl,

Could not agree with your advice more, and I have always, over many years now compared my potential choice of binocular - if possible in 'field' conditions.

You are fortunate in having (I believe) one of the UK's major Vortex stockists in Devon. I'm pleased that your new Vortex Vipers have fulfilled your requirements and saved substantially on your budget.

Thank you for your welcomed input.

Bill