How Good is CP4500 Without Digi-scoping?

[tracker]

Hi,

Ive really had my appetite wetted at the thought of being able to bring my scope into service through digi-scoping. But, i was wondering, as i enjoy doing macro photography, how good is the CP4500 on its own?

Also, can this camera, along with a scope, be used for macro work, or is it just for long distant shots?

Im so close to buying this camera, so im just after some feedback as to how good it is as a stand alone piece of kit.

If you have this model, is there anything you can add to enable me to see how good it really is? Is there a particular model of the CP4500 i should steer clear of, or go for?

In fact, why digi, as opposed to standard 35mm SLR'S ?

All comments will be much appreciated........ :t:

tracker

[Brian Stone]

I have a second hand CP995 and use this for macro shots - mainly moths but also other subjects (including recently a mincepie crust - don't ask!). See my gallery for a few examples.
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=3983

It was one of the reasons I went for a Coolpix. The macro performance is superb in my opinion and is supposed to be similar on the 4500.

[CJW]

I use the CP4500 for macro and the occasional scenery shot and it is wonderful.

[Doug Greenberg]

The Coolpix swivel models do well for macro work; fact, it's believed by some people that their lenses are actually optimized for this purpose. However, the closest reproduction ratio is, as I recall, about 1:2.5, as opposed to an actual 35mm. macro lens, which will go to 1:2 or even 1:1. Also, to get this maximum close-up one has to get very close to the subject, so for animal life this is not convenient.

I've never used my digiscoping outfit for "macro' work, although I have taken bird photos at close to my Pentax scope's minimum focusing distance. It's my impression that the optical performance of most spotting scopes is not going to be best at this range. But again, I can't really comment knowledgeably on this topic.

As for why Coolpix as opposed to dslr, it's a matter of price. A Coolpix 4500 sells for what, about $500 today, and even the cheapie Canon digital Rebel with lens is around $1000. Nikon will soon have the D70, which will be similarly priced as a low-end dslr. And if you want to use the camera to take bird photos, you must purchase a good telephoto lens, which at the very least is several hundred dollars additional investment, and for top quality, we're talking a thousand dollars or more.

The truth is that for any particular purpose, a dslr with the proper lens and accessories will do better than a Coolpix. The CCD size is larger, the maximum number of pixels per image is larger, and at the finest settings the finished print size without distortion can be larger. Even though the Coolpix zoom lens is excellent, it's fixed and when you add "helper" lenses for wide angle and telephoto the image quality cannot help but be degraded somewhat.

The appeal of the Coolpix is that it's compact, versatile, and it takes great photos for a reasonably small investment. Lots of birders get them for digiscoping, which is a relatively inexpensive way to get high-magnification bird photos. But it's a compromise when compared to what's possible with the right dslr equipment.

[robinm]

I too have had reasonable success with my CP4500 in macro mode - for example this photo (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7078) . I have also use it as a general scenic camera and am happy with the results e.g. this photo (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4812)

[tracker]

Mince pie crust.........lmao.....ehem.....where was i?

Oh yes, the scope im hoping to use with this CP4500 is the Nikon Spotting Scope RA1. Im aware that due to it being 60mm, light gathering ability will be reduced.

I have always used SLR equipment, in fact some of my best shots have been with a standard 300mm lens using a close up screw on filter. Try chasing a female Orange Tip butterfly around a field in Chester using that... ;) ....and the result really amazed me. So i guess, now the chance has opened up for me to consider using my scope with a digital camera, i was just a little weary of taking the plunge. As i said, i was interested to know how this CP4500 performed using its macro facility. I will check out the references that were made above.

I suppose the fact that rolls of film can be a thing of the past too, is also a plus, huh?

Thanks for the pointers, and well, i welcome others too.

tracker

[tracker]

I too have had reasonable success with my CP4500 in macro mode - for example this photo (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7078) . I have also use it as a general scenic camera and am happy with the results e.g. this photo (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4812)

The shot with the caterpillar......did you use any other equipment along with the cp4500, or was the pic taken with the cams basic macro setting? In other words, did you have any extra lighting equipment on the cam for that shot?

Thanks,

tracker

[tracker]

I have a second hand CP995 and use this for macro shots - mainly moths but also other subjects (including recently a mincepie crust - don't ask!). See my gallery for a few examples.
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=3983

It was one of the reasons I went for a Coolpix. The macro performance is superb in my opinion and is supposed to be similar on the 4500.

Hi Brian....Ive just been lookin at your pics, and theyre really cool. The one of the Brown Argus in Cop and even the Dark Sword-grass, were they just through the camera, and nothing else? Or did you have extra lighting?

Thanks,

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[robinm]

The shot with the caterpillar......did you use any other equipment along with the cp4500, or was the pic taken with the cams basic macro setting? In other words, did you have any extra lighting equipment on the cam for that shot?

Thanks,

tracker
No extra lighting - just macro mode. It was a brightish July day last year at Rye, but not especially sunny. This shot (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10763) was taken is slightly more overcast but bright weather at Dungeness.

Hope this helps.

[tracker]

No extra lighting - just macro mode. It was a brightish July day last year at Rye, but not especially sunny. This shot (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10763) was taken is slightly more overcast but bright weather at Dungeness.

Hope this helps.

Beautiful pictures, robin, and you use the cp4500? Hmmm, the drive to purchase a cp4500 becomes even more intense!!..... :bounce:

Thnx again everyone, for your time on this,

btw.....is there different models of the cp4500, like one better than another?

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[CJW]

Here's one of mine taken on macro mode. I don't see how it could be better (apart from composition perhaps).

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8249&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1


Chris

[tracker]

Here's one of mine taken on macro mode. I don't see how it could be better (apart from composition perhaps).

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8249&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1


Chris

Point taken, CJW, amazing detail. I love that Dunlin shot too, and the hummingbird hawk moth..... :t:

tracker

[robinm]

btw.....is there different models of the cp4500, like one better than another?

tracker
No - there is only one CP4500. Thanks for the compliment.

CJW - that is a real stunner.

[Brian Stone]

Terrific shot CJ! But I am also impressed with the Chinese Character (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7903). I struggled to get a pic of one I had last year but gave up. The camera was new to me then. Hopefully this year...

I think these shots show the potential of these cameras. They are light hungry compared to an SLR an I have often had to use flash for some macros that won't sit still for long exposures. I think there are other threads on the macro speedlight which can help.

[tracker]

To be perfectly honest, im pretty gob-smacked at the standard of these pics. Maybe i should stick to building computers.....lol

I reckon my scope will probably let me down, on the light gathering issue, bein 60mm.

What you guys are showing me here, is what ive wanted to do for years. Heres a piccie i took, several years ago, probably about 7 years, using a Minolta Dynax 500si SLR camera, with a 300mm lens , and attached to the lens i put one of those filter type close-up lens's:

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16340&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Im hoping with the correct equipment, i'll be able to improve.

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[Fuchsia]

Hello :-)
The camera I use for the macro stuff is a 4500. Buy one!!

Jen :-)

[tracker]

Hello :-)
The camera I use for the macro stuff is a 4500. Buy one!!

Jen :-)

Thanks, fellow bug-lover........ ;)

All of a sudden, im feeling my brain is about to fold up......with 'digi-cam' overload!! :eek!:

There just seems to be so many variations on these cams, and the more i look into them, the more questions i get....like do i need to pay £400 for one when theres another model for £200. Then to hear that the CP4500, even maybe some way down the line is being brought out of production, leaves me feeling even more bewildered. :h?:

Ok, i love macro photography, and would like the option to use a cam on my scope, albeit a 60mm. Why the cp4500 as opposed to say, the 4300 or 3100?

Maybe i just need to take the plunge, and 'just do it'.

Best price ive seen so far is £360 inc postage, from Pixmania.

Lots of hmmmmm's

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[Denis J]

I find the cp 4500 excellent for macro though sometimes it won't auto focus quite were you want it to. But when it works (and it does most of the time) I can't really fault it.

[tracker]

I find the cp 4500 excellent for macro though sometimes it won't auto focus quite were you want it to. But when it works (and it does most of the time) I can't really fault it.

Thanks, Denis.

Can it be manually focussed?

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[Highway Man]

Best price ive seen so far is £360 inc postage, from Pixmania.

Lots of hmmmmm's

tracker[/QUOTE]

Look closer at the Pixmania. That price does not include a Battery, Charger or a case and that's almost £100 worth of neccesary accesories.

Mark

[tracker]

GADZOOKS!!!........Ya reckon??

Wow, thanks for spotting that for me, M N Reeder. I think i best go and check.... :eek!:

*thinks about question regarding cp4500 being manually focussed....is that even possible on digital cameras?.....ooops...!!....... B (: *

tracker

Ok, ive just been to the Pixmania site, and under 'Technical Information', and 'Included Accessories' it seems to indicate that it does come with rechargeable battery and charger. Correct me if im wrong.

[robinm]

The CP4500 can be used in fully manual mode where everything, including focus, is under your control. For macro work I find autofocus is usually fine but it needs a bit of practice to get the settings right.

[tracker]

The CP4500 can be used in fully manual mode where everything, including focus, is under your control. For macro work I find autofocus is usually fine but it needs a bit of practice to get the settings right.

Thanks for the clarification, robin.... :t:

tracker

[mcapper]

Hi tracker

I bought my 4500 from pixmania - you might want to hold out for a while as the price fluctuates - I got mine for £312 + £9p&p. Also if you check out kelkoo.com you can compare prices and they sometimes have special discounts on pixmania prices for 2 or 3 day periods. I got a further £7 off this way.

The camera does not come with a case - but that is a standard omission with the 4500 and not just a pixmania thing. You do get the battery and charger but, being a French company, the charger has a two pin plug. But for the £ saving on the camera this doesn't bother me a jot - you can get an adaptor for a pound or two or even use a shaving point. You also English instruction manuals so no worries there.

Go on... take the plunge!

Regards

Matthew

[tracker]

Thanks Matthew,

When was it that you paid, the £312? and from where can you buy the British plug adapters, do you know?

Only thing stopping me buying this now, is i need to transfer funds to my account.....otherwise, the plunge is a good idea.... :t:

ive just taken your advice and gone to Kelkoo, Matthew, and there is a company called nomatica, doing this gear for £322 inc delivery.

Does anyone know anything about this company?

thanks,

tracker

[mcapper]

I got mine last November but only got my hands on it properly at Christmas.

I'm still using the shaving point to charge the battery but I'm told you can get an adaptor from ASDA. Or try a Department Store like John Lewis.

I haven't heard of the other company you mention - but then I hadn't heard of pixmania until November ;)

Matthew

[Highway Man]

I'm still using the shaving point to charge the battery but I'm told you can get an adaptor from ASDA. Or try a Department Store like John Lewis.



Matthew

You're right Matthew. You do get a charger and a Battery. As for the charger plug, just cut the two pin plug off and replace it with a three pin for about 50p.
Just out of interest does your 4500 have the red stripe on the front, rather than the blue?

Mark

[tracker]

Just out of interest does your 4500 have the red stripe on the front, rather than the blue?

Mark

I read on dpreview that the ones with the red stripe are for Europe and Canada and the model for the USA has the blue/green stripe on it. Other than that the models are identical.
Thats why i was asking earlier about the two models, but that was before i read dpreviews article........... ;)

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[Geoff Brown]

I use my coolpix 4500 for general photography as it's fairly pocketable and it takes excellent, very sharp, well exposed shots and also has plenty of useable modes. I have not used it much in macro but when I have the results are very good. In short it is a very good versatile all rounder.

[mcapper]

Mark,

The camera is indeed a 'red stripe'. I checked before buying.

Cheers

Matthew

[Ragna]

I think its another French company.Will nikon u.k. still repair it if it was supplied by a French company.Worth a phone call to Nikon u.k to find out.I think i saw some where that Pixmania offer a 2 year warrenty of their own.

[Ragna]

Have you tried pricerunner.co.uk.They will give you the best price.

[tracker]

I think its another French company.Will nikon u.k. still repair it if it was supplied by a French company.Worth a phone call to Nikon u.k to find out.I think i saw some where that Pixmania offer a 2 year warrenty of their own.

Hi Ragna, thanks for your comments. Yes, Pixmania do offer a two year warranty, and Pricerunner points to Pixmania as cheapest supplier....... ;) :t:

tracker

[Jay Turberville]

Ive really had my appetite wetted at the thought of being able to bring my scope into service through digi-scoping. But, i was wondering, as i enjoy doing macro photography, how good is the CP4500 on its own?

Also, can this camera, along with a scope, be used for macro work, or is it just for long distant shots?
tracker

It should be very good. This image was taken with a CP995 and also using a TC-E3ED 3X extender. The bees are a bit out of focus, but this actually looks quite good in print.
http://www.jayandwanda.com/FlowerPics/BeeHeaven.jpg

In general, any added optic will probably degrade the image. However, the TC-E3ED is as sharp at some intermediary zoom ranges as the CP995 is by itself at full zoom. For practical purposes, you can treat it as not degrading the image at all.

Yes, you can do macro with digiscoping rig. I wouldn't call it the ideal setup, but it can work.
http://www.jayandwanda.com/digiscope/rubinar/flutterby_1082.jpg
Images will typically be a bit softer. So you will have to do some Photoshop "magic" to get the most from them.



In fact, why digi, as opposed to standard 35mm SLR'S ?
tracker

Two big reasons. Overall cost per image and convenience.

I became a digital convert after I bought my Epson 750z. I've never really looked back. I've only been looking forward to more megapixels.

[Jay Turberville]

The Coolpix swivel models do well for macro work; fact, it's believed by some people that their lenses are actually optimized for this purpose. However, the closest reproduction ratio is, as I recall, about 1:2.5, as opposed to an actual 35mm. macro lens, which will go to 1:2 or even 1:1. Also, to get this maximum close-up one has to get very close to the subject, so for animal life this is not convenient.

Its been a while since I calculated macro ratios, but as I recall, the 1:2, 1:1 ratios etc. refer to the size of the image on film as compared to the actual objects dimension. If so, then a 1:2.5 ratio (assumed to mean the size of the image on the CCD) would be excellent.

The CCD of a digicam is smaller and resolves much more detail per linear mm than does a 35mm lens and film. The CP 4500 resolves around 130 lp/mm. Probably three times the resolution of a "good" (though not great) 35mm lens. So if the CCD is delivering around three times the detail per millimeter, then it needs only one third the actual macro ratio to give similar detail. That puts it roughly equivalent to a 35mm at 1:1.

A penny is .75 inches (19 mm) in diameter. The CP995 CCD is about 7.1mm wide (so is the CP4500'x). This image was taken with the very similar CP995 and is about as close as I could get to a penny. It seems to agree with the 1:2.5 reproduction ratio you mentioned since the penny clearly extends beyond the image frame. Similar framing on a 35mm would require better than a 1:.5 macro ratio.
http://www.jayandwanda.com/macro/DSCN7099_SM.jpg



Even though the Coolpix zoom lens is excellent, it's fixed and when you add "helper" lenses for wide angle and telephoto the image quality cannot help but be degraded somewhat.


I generally agree, but I can attest that the TC-E3ED is so well matched to the CP995 lens (and presumabely the CP4500 as well) that there is no practical degradation. In fact, the CP995 with the 3X is sharper at some zoom settings than the CP995 lens by itself at other settings. I've heard similar credible reports on the 2X and some of the wide angle Nikon lenses as well.

http://www.jayandwanda.com/digiscope/reztest/reztest.html

The tests of the CP995 at 16mm with the TC-E3ED (48mm focal length) show a sharper image than the CP995 lens by itself with no additional optics when used at 31mm (full zoom).

[tracker]

It should be very good. This image was taken with a CP995 and also using a TC-E3ED 3X extender. The bees are a bit out of focus, but this actually looks quite good in print.
http://www.jayandwanda.com/FlowerPics/BeeHeaven.jpg

I love that shot. Theres so many textures and contrasts, and yet the picture holds itself together really well, no conflicts.

The butterfly one too, Jay, that you included above, is a pretty cool shot using your scope and cameras macro facility. I commented on it in my other thread. Thanks again.

tracker