ADVICE on CONVERTERS for 40D and 400mm lens

[JimMorris]

I need some advice folks. I have a Canon 40D and 400mm prime lens. Its my birthday in a few weeks time and the kids want to spend some money on the old man. Now I need a converter.

Any thoughts on whether it should be a 1.4x or a 2.0x. also will I lose the auto focus and do you lose much of the picture quality. One last question where do I get the best price. Any help would be appreciated.
Jim.

[mike from ebbw]

Hi Jim.
I use the Kenko pro 1.4x.I bought it from an ebay shop called UR Galaxy based in Hong Kong.It only took 6 days to arrive and cost me about £65 incl delivery.If you were to get a 2x you will notice a big difference in image quality so I would opt for the 1.4x.You should retain AF with your kit by taping the contact pins on the converter.

Good luck,Mike.

[Penny Clarke]

I need some advice folks. I have a Canon 40D and 400mm prime lens. Its my birthday in a few weeks time and the kids want to spend some money on the old man. Now I need a converter.

Any thoughts on whether it should be a 1.4x or a 2.0x. also will I lose the auto focus and do you lose much of the picture quality. One last question where do I get the best price. Any help would be appreciated.
Jim.

Hi Jim

I also have the Kenko pro 1.4x and use it with the Canon 40D and 300mm f4 prime lens. I do not lose autofocus at all, but apparently you do if you use a 2x converter. There is hardly any difference in quality between this converter and the Canon 1.4x.

Best Wishes Penny:girl:

[gymell]

Using the 1.4x TC on the 40D will result in loss of AF with the 400 (I assume by prime you mean the f/5.6 and not the f/2.8 or f/4.0 DO) because it takes the aperture to f/8. I'd suggest not using the 2x because of loss of image quality and you'd be at f/11. I've got the 2x but only use it on my 1D MkIII and 500 f/4, which takes me to f/8. On the 1D series, you can go to f/8 and still keep AF, albeit only the center point, and the AF is extremely slow. The image quality is ok with that, but I think that would really be stretching it with the equipment you have. The 1.4 should be ok if you are comfortable with losing AF, for example if you have a subject that is sitting relatively still and you have time to manual focus. The image quality should be fine.

[Roy C]

I have the 40D and 400mm f5.6 + Canon 1.4tc and Kenko Pro 1.4tc.
IMO there is nothing to choose between the two converters as far as IQ goes, the Canon is larger and weather sealed. For the Kenko pro I paid about a third of the price of the Canon so the Kenko is excellent value for money.

I would advise against a 2x as you lose too much in IQ.

You will lose AF with a 1.4tc on the 40D but you can tape the pins on the tc to fool the camera into not knowing it is there. This worked brilliantly on the 30D but not so good on the 40D especially if using the centre focus point only - it will AF fine using one of the outer focus points but this takes some getting used to for me. If using some sort of support then manual focusing is easy.

Most of the time I hand hold the 40D + bare 400mm f5.6 but when using a tc I use some sort of pod and also stop down the lens one stop. In the right light IQ can be excellent.

[JimMorris]

Thank you all for your advice, I think I'll go for the Kenco, that way if I'm not happy with the results I haven't lost a fortune.
Jim

[stu78]

When using a 400mm f5.6 with 1.4 t/c (taped pins) I understand that the camera will see the lens as f5.6 and the amount of light reaching the sensor will be the equivalent of f8 but what will the effective DOF be, f5.6 or f8?
Sorry, this may sound like a really stupid question, but I just thought of this the other day and I really am confused about the whole thing!!
I was worried about losing the one stop of light with a t/c, but then realised I usually shoot at f8 anyway just for the increased chance of getting the bird in focus.

[Peter Ericsson]

I wonder why my images often are overexposed with the TC on my 400F5.6 on a 350D?

[GYRob]

When using a 400mm f5.6 with 1.4 t/c (taped pins) I understand that the camera will see the lens as f5.6 and the amount of light reaching the sensor will be the equivalent of f8 but what will the effective DOF be, f5.6 or f8?
Sorry, this may sound like a really stupid question, but I just thought of this the other day and I really am confused about the whole thing!!
I was worried about losing the one stop of light with a t/c, but then realised I usually shoot at f8 anyway just for the increased chance of getting the bird in focus.

F8 . even if a 2xtc was on and if the camara saw that as f5.6 with taped pins dof would be f11
Rob.

[wings]

[QUOTE=gymell;1221294]Using the 1.4x TC on the 40D will result in loss of AF with the 400 (I assume by prime you mean the f/5.6 and not the f/2.8 or f/4.0 DO)
___________

Not true. I have the 400mm/5.6L lens + Kenko 1.4x on a 20D (basically the same features as the 40D) and you will not lose AF. And I have taken hundreds, if not thousands of photos with this arrangement. Some say that you may lose AF when using the 1.4x with the 100-400mm zoom. Let's hear from others.

[tzanampeths]

You will lose AF with a 1.4tc on the 40D but you can tape the pins on the tc to fool the camera into not knowing it is there.

Is it possible to submit a photo of the canon 1.4 TC showing which pins one has to tape?

Tnx

Takis

[Roy C]

[QUOTE=gymell;1221294]Using the 1.4x TC on the 40D will result in loss of AF with the 400 (I assume by prime you mean the f/5.6 and not the f/2.8 or f/4.0 DO)
___________

Not true. I have the 400mm/5.6L lens + Kenko 1.4x on a 20D (basically the same features as the 40D) and you will not lose AF. And I have taken hundreds, if not thousands of photos with this arrangement. Some say that you may lose AF when using the 1.4x with the 100-400mm zoom. Let's hear from others.
Assuming this is the Canon 400mm f5.6 . If you did not tape the pins on the converter you must have had a cheaper Kenko tc which does not have the reporting pins. With this combo and a Kenko pro 300 converter you are bound to lose AF without taping the pins (on a non 1 series camera)

[Roy C]

Is it possible to submit a photo of the canon 1.4 TC showing which pins one has to tape?

Tnx

Takis
Here you go Takis.

[tzanampeths]

Here you go Takis.

Thanks a lot Roy!

[JimMorris]

Thanks for the photo Roy. I took your advice and bought the Canon 1.4 converter. It arrived today but I was out so I've got to pick it up tomorrow. I take it that it's insulating tape in the photo and covering all 3 pins. Once again thanks for your time and advice. Thanks to the others for their comments.
Jim.

[Martin Thomas]

Sellotape seems to work okay Jim.

[Roy C]

Thanks for the photo Roy. I took your advice and bought the Canon 1.4 converter. It arrived today but I was out so I've got to pick it up tomorrow. I take it that it's insulating tape in the photo and covering all 3 pins. Once again thanks for your time and advice. Thanks to the others for their comments.
Jim.
As Martin says Jim, bog standard Sellotape, this is what I use.

[christineredgate]

I wonder why my images often are overexposed with the TC on my 400F5.6 on a 350D?
I also have a similar prob to Peter,images are almost always over-exposed and looking very washed out.
Does anyone have any tried and trusted settings,please?.
Albeit,not M setting,I have no idea as to how to use the manual prog.
Camera/lens used would be 400/5.6.,100-400.and either 40D or 400/450.
I have tried over and over with the 1x4 (pins are taped),but very rarely manage a decent image.Have noticed that darkish birds,eg Oystercatchers,were one of the better shots.
But I have seen ,on the Gallery,superb images using a 1x4,so someone must have some idea as to which are the best settings to use.

[Roy C]

I also have a similar prob to Peter,images are almost always over-exposed and looking very washed out.
Does anyone have any tried and trusted settings,please?.
Albeit,not M setting,I have no idea as to how to use the manual prog.
Camera/lens used would be 400/5.6.,100-400.and either 40D or 400/450.
I have tried over and over with the 1x4 (pins are taped),but very rarely manage a decent image.Have noticed that darkish birds,eg Oystercatchers,were one of the better shots.
But I have seen ,on the Gallery,superb images using a 1x4,so someone must have some idea as to which are the best settings to use.
The only things I do different when using the 400 5.6 with a 1.4 is:

1) I always use some form of support (tri/monopod or beanbag)

2) I stop down to f8 (which is effectively f11)

Neither of these would effect the metering though.

[stu78]

I recently bought a Kenko 1.4 t/c for my 400D and 400mm f5.6 and have not seen any over-exposure in any of my shots with this set-up (taped pins). However I am thinking that it is not really worth bothering with the teleconverter as the auto-focus is not very quick or very reliable. I have got used to the auto-focusing of the naked lens which is simply astounding. I am not saying that I cannot get good shots with this combination, (see the attached Kentish Plover and the Red-rumped Swallow) but I am pretty certain that the naked lens would have performed just as well.
The attached Long-legged Buzzard is just horrible as the AI Servo mode is quite useless with the t/c. Had I taken this with the naked lens I know it would have been far superior, especially considering this was the best one out of about 20 shots.
So basically, I don't really think that the 1.4 magnification outweighs the loss of a stop of light and the far inferior focusing ability.

[christineredgate]

Thanks,Roy and Stu.Stu,your Kentich Plover shot is very sharp.
So what you would suggest is to use AV mode and use F8.with say iso of 400,and perhaps turn down the compensation slider 1/2 a stop perhaps.I have used iso of 200 and it did seem to be better than the 400.I think I am perhaps mixing up "stops" with ISO settings.If one is using a tripod,then the ISO could be left at 200,maybe.

[stu78]

Yes, Christine the Kentish Plover does look nice and sharp in the previous pic. Here is a 100% crop of the unedited original shot and I'm sure you can see what a difference the pp makes.
I always use the standard picture style so there was also some in-camera sharpening. I can't imagine what it would have looked like without the in-camera sharpening, probably not very good at all!
I do think that it would have been sharper without the t/c, but I would have had to crop more so who knows if I would have got a better result with just the naked lens.

I just looked at the exif and it was f5.6 (f8) and 1/1000 of a sec, so it was a lucky shot considering it was handheld at 560mm. I would not normally expect to get a sharp shot at this shutter speed!
I also used -1ev but I think this was to try and avoid blowing out the highlights on the white neck. Obviously -1ev was not enough! I haven't noticed any overexposure in my other shots tho.

[Roy C]

Thanks,Roy and Stu.Stu,your Kentich Plover shot is very sharp.
So what you would suggest is to use AV mode and use F8.with say iso of 400,and perhaps turn down the compensation slider 1/2 a stop perhaps.I have used iso of 200 and it did seem to be better than the 400.I think I am perhaps mixing up "stops" with ISO settings.If one is using a tripod,then the ISO could be left at 200,maybe.
Not sure about the EV-1/2 stop Christine, but if you feel it is overexposing then it is understandable. I would rather be slightly overexposed than under as pushing the exposure in PP tends to increase noise whereas a slight overexposure (without any of the birds highlights being blown of course) can always be pulled back if you shoot in raw. I tend to use manual exposure more these days but when I use AV mode I almost always dial in EV+1/3 as a starting point. You can always check the histogram and then decide if you need any exposure comp or not.
I still cannot work out why you and Max are getting over exposure when using a tc.

[christineredgate]

thanks,Roy.Yes,I gues I would tend to dial in - a stop,esp as I do not use RAW.
But thinking re your comment,does make sense.I have always gone by the fact that ifan image is far too pale,the difficult to replace colour which has been washed out,whereas if an image is slightly darker then it is easy to just up the brightness and contrast just a little.

[Harold Stiver]

thanks,Roy.Yes,I gues I would tend to dial in - a stop,esp as I do not use RAW.
But thinking re your comment,does make sense.I have always gone by the fact that ifan image is far too pale,the difficult to replace colour which has been washed out,whereas if an image is slightly darker then it is easy to just up the brightness and contrast just a little.

Actually, this may be a good reason to shoot in RAW. If an image is too pale, it is an easy matter in the RAW conversion, to move the black point and recover the color. It can also be done with a jpg but it is a snap in RAW.

[gymell]

[QUOTE=gymell;1221294]Using the 1.4x TC on the 40D will result in loss of AF with the 400 (I assume by prime you mean the f/5.6 and not the f/2.8 or f/4.0 DO)
___________

Not true. I have the 400mm/5.6L lens + Kenko 1.4x on a 20D (basically the same features as the 40D) and you will not lose AF. And I have taken hundreds, if not thousands of photos with this arrangement. Some say that you may lose AF when using the 1.4x with the 100-400mm zoom. Let's hear from others.

Then I should clarify to say with the Canon teleconverter you will lose autofocus. I don't have experience with other brands. When the teleconverter takes you to a maximum aperture of f/8 on non 1-series cameras, AF is lost. On a 1-series camera, AF is retained but only with center point focus. Again, I'm talking about the Canon TC. I have experience with both on non 1-series (300D, 30D, and 40D) and a 1D Mark III.

Does the Kenko TC report the correct aperture when it's on your 20D?

[Roy C]

[QUOTE=wings;1225054]

Then I should clarify to say with the Canon teleconverter you will lose autofocus. I don't have experience with other brands. When the teleconverter takes you to a maximum aperture of f/8 on non 1-series cameras, AF is lost. On a 1-series camera, AF is retained but only with center point focus. Again, I'm talking about the Canon TC. I have experience with both on non 1-series (300D, 30D, and 40D) and a 1D Mark III.

Does the Kenko TC report the correct aperture when it's on your 20D?

You are quite right Liz, the Kenko Pro 300 1.4tc does lose AF on a non 1 series body as per my post #12 in this thread.

[JimMorris]

I've had my Canon 1.4 converter for 10 days but only had the chance to get out with it once, I must have taken around a 100 pics of Crossbills and these are the 2 best ones. I used a tripod. Not very good I know but with a bit of patience and practice, some fine weather plus the advice on this thread it should get better.

Like you good people said you do lose the AF. I tried taping the pins and the AF worked but it was slow and sluggish so I gave up and went to manual focus. I've just read that A1 servo is not good with a TC attached. Any suggestions?. Keep the info coming folks, I got a lot of learning to do.

HAPPY BIRDING.
Jim.

[gymell]

I've had my Canon 1.4 converter for 10 days but only had the chance to get out with it once, I must have taken around a 100 pics of Crossbills and these are the 2 best ones. I used a tripod. Not very good I know but with a bit of patience and practice, some fine weather plus the advice on this thread it should get better.

Like you good people said you do lose the AF. I tried taping the pins and the AF worked but it was slow and sluggish so I gave up and went to manual focus. I've just read that A1 servo is not good with a TC attached. Any suggestions?. Keep the info coming folks, I got a lot of learning to do.

HAPPY BIRDING.
Jim.

Look at the difference in sharpness between your two photos. The first is at 1/640 and the second is at 1/60. That's why the second photo isn't sharp. At 560mm focal length, you likely want the shutter speed to be at least 1/500. So I'd suggest you bump up the ISO (which is only at 200 for that shot) so you can increase the shutter speed. Also for such small birds, you'll need to be closer to them in order to get good detail.

[JimMorris]

Thanks Liz, with the second shot I was in amonst the trees and it was dull. The first shot was taken afterwards at the edge of the trees and the sun came out for a bit as well. I'm not too clever with the settings, aperture, shutter and the other technical points. ISO I understand, I think.

Do you think I should try shutter priority instead of aperture priority as well as turning up the ISO. As for getting closer, believe me I tried. They just kept going futher away. Thanks again Liz.
Jim

[Nikon Kid]

Interesting thread for when I have had some shots with my new prime 400mm
winging its way from Hong Kong. If and when I decide to TC with 450d +
Kenco 1.4 + 400mm Canon EF f5.6 L USM will I have to tape up or will the AF work OK

BTW Jim like your Crossbills, I was hunting them down in Rockingham last week without success.

[Roy C]

Interesting thread for when I have had some shots with my new prime 400mm
winging its way from Hong Kong. If and when I decide to TC with 450d +
Kenco 1.4 + 400mm Canon EF f5.6 L USM will I have to tape up or will the AF work OK

Assuming it is the Canon 400mm f5.6 and Kenko Pro 300 1.4tc then Yes you will have to tape the pins to acheive AF.

[Nikon Kid]

One more question on the Pro 1.4 Kenko Canon fit I have found two different colour lens
body's one in white and one in Black are they same or different variants ? (for my 450d)

(Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 for Canon EOS (1.4x) (k14pro300c) Lens Converter) this is in white........

This one is in Black are they the same lens and you can order in black or white ??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230269350120



I just don't wont to make a mistake when I decide to buy one

[Roy C]

One more question on the Pro 1.4 Kenko Canon fit I have found two different colour lens
body's one in white and one in Black are they same or different variants ? (for my 450d)

(Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 for Canon EOS (1.4x) (k14pro300c) Lens Converter) this is in white........

This one is in Black are they the same lens and you can order in black or white ??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230269350120



I just don't wont to make a mistake when I decide to buy one

The black one is the newest version and is supposed to be better for digital cameras (I have the black one and it is fine).