Poss Yelkouan Shearwater in Devon.

[Dougie Preston]

Reported off Berry Head by Birdguides:

"presumed Yelkouan Shearwater seen well with Balearic Shearwater at 250m range, lingering behind fishing boat between 09:30-09:49 before flying off"

[jimbob]

Im gonna have to ask what is no doubt on a few people's minds, hence the lack of replies here...ill be brave....what is a Yelkouan Shearwater? A recent split? Is it a species in its own right?
Cheers,
Jim.


Reported off Berry Head by Birdguides:

"presumed Yelkouan Shearwater seen well with Balearic Shearwater at 250m range, lingering behind fishing boat between 09:30-09:49 before flying off"

[dantheman]

If you've got the recent Collins Bird Guide you'll find the two subspecies under Mediterranean Shearwater, and yep, split I think you'll find.

[Pagan Birder]

Both species occur together off NE Spain and S France so I suppose it would always be likely that one would turn up with Balearics.

Jan

[Woodchatshrike]

Let's face it Leventines Shearwater has been long expected!

[jogresh]

Mega! Berry Head has certainly had some extremely productive seawatching in the last couple of weeks!..

[Ross Ahmed]

Wonder how this bird reached us? Perhaps it's no coincidence that there was an influx of Cory's yesterday into the south-west.

Straits of Gibralter have been suggested as a barrier, but if Balearic can make it through, can't see why Yelkouan cannot. Shortest route to reach us is overland across continent, but presumably if Straits of Gib are a barrier, the overland route is unlikely - but if Yellow-nosed Albatross can do it.....

[Pariah]

Presumably they just filter out through the straits. Ive seen them moving through the straits of messina. Cracking birds. Fair play to the finders. Not an easy one to pick out in amongst manxies.

Owen

[Binocularface]

Presumably they just filter out through the straits. Ive seen them moving through the straits of messina. Cracking birds. Fair play to the finders. Not an easy one to pick out in amongst manxies.

Owen

I though it was amongst Belearic's?

[Pagan Birder]

I though it was amongst Belearic's?

Think it was. I've seen them with Balearics off NE Spain and they look pretty much like Manx among Balearics until you look closely so its still pretty well done to not write it off as Manx in a British context. I think if they're specifically looked for they could be picked out more regularly off Britain, as could Scopoli's.

Jan

[Fat Paul Scholes]

Don't forget that the Menorcan balearic shearwaters are extremely similar to yelkouans. Not doubting the likelyhood of yelkouan, but it's going to be an extremely difficult one to get past the committee. Still, very interesting record none the less!

Mark

[Ross Ahmed]

Don't forget that the Menorcan balearic shearwaters are extremely similar to yelkouans. Not doubting the likelyhood of yelkouan, but it's going to be an extremely difficult one to get past the committee. Still, very interesting record none the less!

Mark

A photo is a 'prerequisite' according to least one BBRC member.

Don't seem to be any photos of this bird, so presumably will be found 'not proven'.

[Mike Feely]

A photo is a 'prerequisite' according to least one BBRC member.

Don't seem to be any photos of this bird, so presumably will be found 'not proven'.

Which is presumably why it was out out as a "presumed" rather than a "definate".

Mike

[Pariah]

I though it was amongst Belearic's?

Says it was with a balearic ok...but presumably with manxies also?
Or were there just 2 birds behind the boat?....jammy boat if so!

Owen

[Russlac123]

How do you tell Yelkouan from Manx?

[Capercaillie71]

How do you tell Yelkouan from Manx?

If it's in the Aegean, it's Yelkouan. If it's in the Hebrides, it's Manx.

At least that's how I told them apart ;)

[Harry Hussey]

As pointed out by Mark above, there is the fly in the ointment that is 'Menorcan Shearwater', as mentioned in 'Petrels Night And Day' by Magnus Robb. I have yet to purchase a copy, so I don't know what the thining is on the taxonomic status of these is (are they pure Balearics resembling Yelkouans, hybrids, intergrades (thus putting any split in doubt) or pure Yelkouans nesting within the range of Balearic)?
Even if it is never submitted to BBRC, and given the absence of any pics, it would be interesting to hear what the finders saw on the bird, if only to give an impression of what features were the most useful in the identification. Yelkouan Shearwater is certainly capable of exiting the Straits of Gibraltar, with many older records (fewer in recent years?) of birds in northern Spain that had presumably moved out of the Med with Balearics, but proving one here to a sufficient degree for the species to gain official acceptance may prove difficult, especially if these 'Menorcan Shearwaters' muddy the waters...
Regards,
Harry

[Fat Paul Scholes]

As far as I remember, (my copy of Petrels night and day is on a lorry somewhere between Oban and Aberdeen) these Menorcan shearwaters are closest to Balearics, but show many features of Yelkouan, some being almost identical.

May well have remembered incorrectly though!

Hurry up and buy a copy Harry....I can thoroughly recommend it!

[postcardcv]

possible reported from Pendeen and Sennen Cove this morning...

[changer400]

possible reported from Pendeen and Sennen Cove this morning...

Just like a Bus eh ! , you wait 15 years for them to be split , and then 3 turn up together ! tch !

Si ;)

[Jurij Hanžel]

A paraphrase of 'Petrels Night And Day' (I've left out the full references for the sake of brevity – if anyone has a burning desire to check them out, he or she may PM me – or buy the book!):

The Menorcan birds have a paler, Yelkouan-like, plumage. On average, they're smaller than the Balearic Shearwaters from Ibiza, Mallorca and Formentera (Genovart et al 2007). None of them look like classic Balearics plumagewise. Satellite-tracked birds flew to feed in the seas off southern France (Ruíz & Martí 2004) and not along the east coast of Spain which is the norm for Balearic (Louzao et al 2004).

Genovart et al (2005) conducted a mtDNA analysis: five birds were of a Balearic genetic type and five turned out to be Yelkouan. The divergence between the two groups was 1.6% (Balearics from Mallorca and Yelkouans from Crete differ by 2.2 - 2.9% - per Heidreich et al 1998 – the study was dogged by minute sample sizes, only 4 gene sequences of Yelkouans were used). Genovart's conclusion was that Yelkouan and Balearic Shearwater breed sympatrically on Menorca.

In a follow-up study Genovart et al (2007) trapped 24 birds at the same location, 11 had Balearic- and 15 had Yelkouan-type mtDNA (sic – we all know that 11 and 15 equals 26, but the book begs to differ). The birds of both types were also measured and were found not to differ in size. Again, their measurements were consistently smaller than those of Balearic. Genovart lumped the population with Balearic, despite their size and a prevalence of Yelkouan mtDNA.

Unfortunately, things aren't quite as straightforward. Apart from the absence of classic-looking Balearics, a few more things don't add up. The Menorcan Shearwaters all look the same and breed at the same time – egg.laying takes place in late March/early April; three weeks later than in Balearic and closer to Yelkouan.

Robb recorded their burrow calls and compared them with their equivalents in Balearic – no comparison could be made with Yelkouan, because he had recorded only flight calls of that species. The calls turned out to be higher pitched than Balearic, their rhythm and length, however, were very similar.

To cut a long story short: nobody really knows what these birds are and where they belong taxonomically. The situation calls for a broad-based genetic study of Puffinus shearwaters in the Mediterranean.

[Dougie Preston]

Those lucky sods are at it again! Might have to sort out a bit of sea watching down South next August!

Birdguides;

"Cornwall, Pendeen. A possible past; also 10 Storm Petrels and 2 Basking Sharks"

[Ross Ahmed]

Got to Pendeen just after this passed. Most Manxies were passing along a the same (close) line and light was fairly good. Anything different (e.g. Manxies with slightly paler secondaries) was immediately obvious, so a Yelkouan would have stood out.

Unfortunately, don't think there are any photos.

[Jhanlon]

less contrasting (greyer above, slightly dingier below), dusky markings (usually) on axillaries, and there's a difference on the head pattern - Yelkouan lacks the pale indentation up behind the ear coverts shown by manx. It also has slightly projecting feet like balearic. This is from a paper I read ages ago, not personal experience. A quick google image search might help confirm. As for separation of 'Menorcan' balearic, wouldn't like to go there!:eek!:

I think increasing numbers of observers are checking manx for yelkouan and Cory's for Scopoli's. I saw good numbers of manx and Cory's recently at Porthgwarra (same day as the Berry Head yelkouan) but could only check the close birds. And not many of the Cory's were that close!

How do you tell Yelkouan from Manx?

[Pagan Birder]

less contrasting (greyer above, slightly dingier below), dusky markings (usually) on axillaries, and there's a difference on the head pattern - Yelkouan lacks the pale indentation up behind the ear coverts shown by manx. It also has slightly projecting feet like balearic. This is from a paper I read ages ago, not personal experience. A quick google image search might help confirm. As for separation of 'Menorcan' balearic, wouldn't like to go there!:eek!:

I think increasing numbers of observers are checking manx for yelkouan and Cory's for Scopoli's. I saw good numbers of manx and Cory's recently at Porthgwarra (same day as the Berry Head yelkouan) but could only check the close birds. And not many of the Cory's were that close!

There is a decent paper on identification in Birding World vol 17, 3 by Ricard Gutierrez.

Underwing pattern is probably not a safe way of IDing Manx from Yelkouan as Manx can show a dark diagonal bar and Yelkouan can lack this. All the other features above (grey toned upperparts, lack of pale indentation behind ear coverts and projecting feet for examples) should be ok to separate a Yelkouan from Manx Shearwaters in good views.

On the other hand the above mentioned ID paper bases some of its information on Menorcan Yelkouan Shearwaters, so if the taxonomy of these birds is not clear then at least some of the photos and information in the article may be questionable.

I've personally 'ticked' Yelkouan from NE Spain where I've seen good numbers among Balearics. Of course with the Menorcan birds breeding a lot closer to Spain than the main populations of definite Yelkouan, it's unclear how many of these were Yelkouan and how many 'Menorcan Shearwaters'. Certainly they looked like classic Yelkouan to me.

Jan

P.s. if this is a headache, just wait til they split the 'two' Madeiran Storm Petrels ;) Good luck ticking them as fly-bys lol

[Fat Paul Scholes]

lack of pale indentation behind ear coverts is not always present in Yelkouan (if that makes sense!) Also, you'd have to be getting some serious views to see the feet projecting....I feel we might be getting a little over confident with separating these things on a few rather variable features. Not wanting to diss the records at all, or those who saw the birds.....I just think that we should be really cautious in separating Yelkouan from manx, before we even consider the menorcan problem!

[Jhanlon]

lack of pale indentation behind ear coverts is not always present in Yelkouan (if that makes sense!) Also, you'd have to be getting some serious views to see the feet projecting....I feel we might be getting a little over confident with separating these things on a few rather variable features. Not wanting to diss the records at all, or those who saw the birds.....I just think that we should be really cautious in separating Yelkouan from manx, before we even consider the menorcan problem!

Indeed. 'Showing characters of' is a very useful phrase which should probably be used more often! It will be sad if we start to 'lose' records (esp seawatching ones where birds can be difficult to see well) because of splits. Fea's/Zino's has already been problematic; what if Scopoli's is accepted & split or Cape Verde puts in an appearance? Does that mean we can't count any 'Runnel range' Cory's because we couldn't rule out its rare relatives? 'Little shear' complex, Madeiran petrel, it's all getting trickier. Enough to put me off buying Petrels Night & Day! Too much knowledge, etc. Maybe we just need to 'stop putting things into boxes' so to speak :smoke:

[Pariah]

Lump em!!

Its always tempting when any new literature is published to have a crack at the new species. But as others have said, with this menorcan yolk doing the rounds, positive ID of these will be nothing short of a miracle.

Owen

[Ross Ahmed]

Claims of Yelkouans in British waters are nothing new....remember many records in Flamborough Annual Reports in 90s.

I've just randomly picked up their 1994 report, and in that year alone there are 3 records.

Don't think they've ever been submitted to BBRC.

[Jhanlon]

Also, you'd have to be getting some serious views to see the feet projecting....

They're visible in the photos of this bird which are in the latest issue of Birdwatch (just arrived this morning). It certainly looks good... most features mentioned are visible. Perhaps this is the strongest candidate yet. It all depends how strict BBRC will be with acceptance criteria. I guess they'll be cautious and wait for further studies on the group to help clarify the taxonomic position.

[Farnboro John]

Claims of Yelkouans in British waters are nothing new....remember many records in Flamborough Annual Reports in 90s.

I've just randomly picked up their 1994 report, and in that year alone there are 3 records.

Don't think they've ever been submitted to BBRC.

When the original split from Manx was proposed it was going to be 2-way: Manx and Yelkouan - most likely all these records were believed at the time to be what we now call Balearic - unless of course there are separate lists of those in the Flannelburgh reports?

John

[Harry Hussey]

Not wanting to diss the records at all, or those who saw the birds.....I just think that we should be really cautious in separating Yelkouan from manx, before we even consider the menorcan problem!

I agree entirely with these sentiments when it comes to 'pale end' Yelkouans, which are incredibly similar to Manx in many ways, but those Yelkouans with darker vents are certainly not confusable with Manx if seen well, though they would be inseperable on current knowledge from 'Menorcan Shearwater', whatever they will turn out to be...
I have also been reading some older papers on the 'Mediterranean Shearwater' complex in BBi recently (early/mid 90s), and, while I acknowledge that a lot of what was said in these will now be out-dated, it was claimed that some (less than 10%) Balearics were so pale as to be almost indistinguishable from Yelkouan. I wonder if this was based on presuming that Yelkouans just didn't occur in Spain or its waters, and assuming that 'Menorcan Shearwaters' were pale Balearics, or if pale Balearics do exist?
Harry