What is a Bombycillid?

[Markus Lagerqvist]

There's a new paper out in Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution:
"Clarifying the systematics of an enigmatic avian lineage: What is a Bombycillid?"

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL&_tockey=%23TOC%236963%239999%23999999999%2399999%2 3FLA%23&_cdi=6963&_pubType=J&_auth=y&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1f39952c3f6246c6198e984cf726443f

Might be interesting if anyone has access to it!

[KnockerNorton]

How many species of waxwings are there? Is it just cedar and bohemian?

[Markus Lagerqvist]

How many species of waxwings are there? Is it just cedar and bohemian?

Three - there's Japanese Waxing as well.

[Daniel Philippe]

Three

Well, they say ten !! :eek!:

Dulus dominicensis
Hypocolius ampelinus
Hylocitrea bonensis
Bombycilla cedrorum
Bombycilla garrulus
Bombycilla japonica
Phainoptila melanoxantha
Phainopepla nitens
Ptilogonys cinereus
Ptilogonys caudatus

They propose to recognize 5 subfamilies within the family Bombycillidae :
Dulinae (Dulus),
Hypocoliinae (Hypocolius),
Hylocitreinae (Hylocitrea),
Bombycillinae (Bombycilla),
Ptilogonatinae (Phainopepla, Phainoptila, Ptilogonys).

In addition, they say that the inclusion of Hylocitrea in the Bombycillidae suggests that other enigmatic taxa might belong to this clade.

[Xenospiza]

Hylocitrea bonensis
Wow! And just recently it was a whistler. There are of course more nice enigmas on Sulawesi!
The other species have of course all been treated as waxwings before, until Sibley and Monroe started questioning Hypocolius...

[thyoloalethe]

Any idea why they proposed subfamily status instead of family status? I feel that these are still all rather different creatures...

And which (sub)family turned out to be sister to the Hypocolius? The shape of the black mask always made me think it was closest to the waxwings.

[Daniel Philippe]

Any idea why they proposed subfamily status instead of family status?

Because of the common ancestry of all the species.

And which (sub)family turned out to be sister to the Hypocolius?

It is the Hylocitreinae ... and this not a complete surprise as Jonsson & al. 2008 already removed Hylocitrea bonensis from the Corvida and placed it in the Passerida.

[njlarsen]

Because of the common ancestry of all the species.


Playing the devils advocate here: the above answer really is not an answer. Just consider that I some where back there also have a common ancester with the Waxwings, so am I also a Bombycillid? ;)

There is a certain level of judgment call in saying whether the distance between one clade and another warrants placement as different genera, subfamily, family, or even order.

Niels

[Daniel Philippe]

Just consider that I some where back there also have a common ancester with the Waxwings, so am I also a Bombycillid? ;)

Or more likely a vertebrate as you are not alone to share this ancestor, but ...

There is a certain level of judgment call in saying whether the distance between one clade and another warrants placement as different genera, subfamily, family, or even order

... yes you are right, this decision may be challenged by others.

[thyoloalethe]

According to HBW, the song of Hylocitrea bonensis is "a series of high-pitched buzzy notes on same pitch." Does this not remind anyone else of the voice of waxwings?

[Acanthis]

They propose to recognize 5 subfamilies within the family Bombycillidae :
Dulinae (Dulus),
Hypocoliinae (Hypocolius),
Hylocitreinae (Hylocitrea),
Bombycillinae (Bombycilla),
Ptilogonatinae (Phainopepla, Phainoptila, Ptilogonys).

In addition, they say that the inclusion of Hylocitrea in the Bombycillidae suggests that other enigmatic taxa might belong to this clade.

I think I recall reading somewhere the extinct hawaiian honeyeater genus Moho might belong to this group too! :eek!:

[Daniel Philippe]

I think I recall reading somewhere the extinct hawaiian honeyeater genus Moho might belong to this group too! :eek!:

There ? http://jboyd.net/Taxo/List241.html#bombycillidae

[Acanthis]

There ? http://jboyd.net/Taxo/List241.html#bombycillidae

I think it was in an AOU meeting abstract. I'll need to google it

[Mysticete]

It was the 2007 AOU meeting...I was at the talk and on molecular grounds than the Moho does indeed clade inside the expanded waxwing family.

[Markus Lagerqvist]

It was the 2007 AOU meeting...I was at the talk and on molecular grounds than the Moho does indeed clade inside the expanded waxwing family.

Did they say which genus it's sister too?

[Daniel Philippe]

It was the 2007 AOU meeting

Yes indeed; I overlooked this abstract:

187 Fleischer, James, Driskell & Olson

What is a Hawaiian honeyeater? ROBERT FLEISCHER, HELEN JAMES, AMY DRISKELL and STORRS OLSON, Natl. Zool. Park, Smithsonian Inst., Washington, DC.

The Hawaiian honeyeaters (genera Moho and Chaetoptila) have been classified in the avian family Meliphagidae, but their affinities within the family have been unclear. Unfortunately, all described species of Hawaiian honeyeaters are extinct, with most species having disappeared by about a century ago, and one species (Moho braccatus of Kauai) blinking out only during the past 30 yr. In this talk, we evaluate, using nuclear and mitochondrial DNA isolated from museum specimens collected in the 1800s, the phylogenetic position of the Hawaiian honeyeaters. We find support for the monophyly of the group, but with the genus Moho paraphyletic. Most surprising, we find no support for the placement of this group within the family Meliphagidae, nor within the “pre-Corvida” of songbirds in which Meliphagids belong. In contrast, both genera of Hawaiian honeyeaters are well-supported members of the “Passerida”. Our analysis reveals that the Hawaiian honeyeaters form a divergent lineage within an unusual clade containing 3 other avian families: waxwings, silky flycatchers and the monotypic palm chat (of Hispanola). Our findings indicate that the Hawaiian honeyeaters are unique taxonomically, perhaps to the level of family; are not likely derived from South Pacific ancestors; and are highly convergent in morphology, behavior and ecology with Australasian honeyeaters.

[Mysticete]

Did they say which genus it's sister too?

Sadly I don't recall off the top of my head what specific group was sister to it.

[thyoloalethe]

Did they say which genus it's sister too?

My hunch is that they might be sister to the Ptilogonatidae - compare, for example the long tail and white undertail spots of the Long-tailed Silky Flycatcher Ptilogonys caudatus to those of the Hawaii O'o Moho nobilis, or the strongly black-and-yellow plumage of Phainoptila and 3 of the 4 Moho's.

Biogeographically this makes more sense too; most of Hawaii's native avifauna derives from either North & Middle America or Asia. In fact the only bird I can think of that might come from elsewhere in the Pacific is the Elepaio Chasiempis sandwichensis (Monarchidae), although I am unaware if any molecular data exists that groups it with other Pacific species.

[l_raty]

In fact the only bird I can think of that might come from elsewhere in the Pacific is the Elepaio Chasiempis sandwichensis (Monarchidae), although I am unaware if any molecular data exists that groups it with other Pacific species.

There is this : http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature04057
(Full text not accessible unless you are a subscriber, but the figures and supplementary info can be seen freely.)

[thyoloalethe]

There is this : http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature04057
(Full text not accessible unless you are a subscriber, but the figures and supplementary info can be seen freely.)

Thanks! I had forgotten about that article, and I never did see the cladogram until now.