Canon EOS 450D vs. Panasonic Lumix G1 vs. Nikon p6000

[trco]

I tried digicoping with astro scope WO Megrez and Canon EOS 450D. Photos were very good, but the whole system (with adapters, extensions, barlow and teleconverters and without tripod) weight more than 4 kg (abot 9 pounds). I'm near 30 and I found difficult to walk long hikes. System with tripod and camera weight more than 7 kg (16 pounds).

So I'm selling my astro scope and heavy tripod. I would like to buy Kowa Prominar TSN-883 or 884 with zoom eyepiece (for observing birds too). I have EOS 450d, but I would like to buy Panasonic G1 or Nikon p6000. They are lighter than EOS. Which one do you propose? I would like to have camera with interchangeable lenses. If the point and shoot is better for digiscoping then I would buy Nikon and keep EOS. It will be perfect to have one one camera for all purposes.

Panasonic test is here CLICK (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCG1/DMCG1A.HTM) and here CLICK (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_g1-review/index.shtml) and noise at high ISO is quite good. And the rotating LCD, live view ... - :D

With Panasonic or Nikon and Kowa the setup withot tripod will have under 2 kilos :t::t::t: Very good for hikes into the mountains and for longer hikes.

Thanks in advance.

[cango]

I too am concerned by the weight, I have for a month been hiking(bycicling) with my astro scope, where only the scope is more than 3 kg...(a scopos TL 805 APO). But since I am located outside Stockholm, Sweden, we are not having so good light, so that concernes me more, right now... as well as the trouble of focussing. (don't know how Paul Corfield pulls it off so well...I am in awe :-) ) I do mostly small birds, in low light conditions, but I am learning...
I wonder if a common spotting scope like the Kowa is more fast to focus right?

Good luck with your new kowa, and let us know how it goes.

[Paul Corfield]

My Skywatcher 80ED + Camera + 2X teleconverter + aluminium tripod weighs in at 11.5 lbs which I find fine to carry around. Usually I have the scope on the tripod over my shoulder and I have the camera around my neck or I carry it in my free hand. I average 2-4 hours on a trip out and most of that is spent walking as I don't sit in hides etc.

Scope like those from William Optics and almost all the other ED and APO scopes tend to be of a much heavier construction like CNC machined tube etc. My old WO ZS80 was the same and was quite heavy for a short 480mm long scope. The Skywatcher is much lighter construction.

Cango - for focussing I refocus every shot which should insure that at least some are in focus and I'd say my success rate is pretty high, around 80% or more are in focus. Apart from that it comes with practice I suppose and I'm using my scope everyday so I get plenty of that.

Regarding the Panasonic G1, having looked at the photos I think it's going to be too noisy, I doubt I will be trading my Canon 450D for one. I think the price point is set too high compared to the current crop of entry level dslr's. Lack of lenses and very high price for the 4/3 adapter have also put me off.

Paul.

[trco]

My Skywatcher 80ED + Camera + 2X teleconverter + aluminium tripod weighs in at 11.5 lbs which I find fine to carry around. Usually I have the scope on the tripod over my shoulder and I have the camera around my neck or I carry it in my free hand. I average 2-4 hours on a trip out and most of that is spent walking as I don't sit in hides etc.

Scope like those from William Optics and almost all the other ED and APO scopes tend to be of a much heavier construction like CNC machined tube etc. My old WO ZS80 was the same and was quite heavy for a short 480mm long scope. The Skywatcher is much lighter construction.

Paul, you have very light setup compared to mine. In my setup Megrez 90 weigh 3,2kg or 7 pounds - add in heavy 2" barlow, extenders, adapter and camera - too much. I looked at SW scopes also but I found it to long.

Regarding the Panasonic G1, having looked at the photos I think it's going to be too noisy, I doubt I will be trading my Canon 450D for one. I think the price point is set too high compared to the current crop of entry level dslr's. Lack of lenses and very high price for the 4/3 adapter have also put me off.

I compared same pictures form G1 and 450d on the internet site you proposed in other thread. I found that the pictures at ISO800 and ISO1600 looks quite same as those from 450d - if you are looking only for noise.

You can compare photos in same conditions from different cameras on that site. If you din't know please check and notify me what did you found. Thanks.

Tadej

[RJM]

The guy that runs BORG has his G1 digiscoping report up here (http://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/world/sakurei08_bird/0811/081104a.html). Pretty nice pics of a Kingfisher. He seems pretty thrilled. But he gets excited about every new camera! Right now the G1 body sells for about US$690 here in Tokyo. Guess I will go to a shop tomorrow and check it out.

Still think I will get the D90 in the coming weeks as it is a better match to my ED82 fieldscope.

cheers,
Rick

[Paul Corfield]

I compared same pictures form G1 and 450d on the internet site you proposed in other thread. I found that the pictures at ISO800 and ISO1600 looks quite same as those from 450d - if you are looking only for noise.

You can compare photos in same conditions from different cameras on that site. If you din't know please check and notify me what did you found. Thanks.

Tadej

Up to ISO800 I'd say the cameras perform pretty similar. At ISO1600 there is a lot more chroma noise with banding of colours from the G1 which is hard to remove from a photo, not so much the chroma noise but the actual banding which would still show. If you were only going up to ISO800 then the camera looks fine apart from the price. If it were a similar price to my 450D then I'd be tempted to swap.

Paul.

[JGobeil]

Up to ISO800 I'd say the cameras perform pretty similar. At ISO1600 there is a lot more chroma noise with banding of colours from the G1 which is hard to remove from a photo, not so much the chroma noise but the actual banding which would still show. If you were only going up to ISO800 then the camera looks fine apart from the price. If it were a similar price to my 450D then I'd be tempted to swap.

Paul.

Not for me thanks - for quite a few reasons:

I don't think that the 4/3 format is ready yet. Let's give it some time to refine.
As I see it, this format is more of an alternative for P&S cameras than for DSLRs.
Not enough lenses available - however, the 2X crop factor will make it interesting for birding.
The sensor is quite noisy compare to Canon and Nikon DSLRs.

[trco]

@RJM: Those photos looks very nice - I don't understand your language so may I ask you which scope does he use and if he uses camera with lens atached to eyepiece or camera mounted directley to the scope with t-adapter? Can you write a little report from the shop?

@Paul: I intended to use it with maximum ISO800 so this sound a good option

@JGobeil:

I don't think that the 4/3 format is ready yet. Let's give it some time to refine.
Why do you think the format is not ready yet?

As I see it, this format is more of an alternative for P&S cameras than for DSLRs
I think that micro 4/3 are intented to be between PS and DSLR

Not enough lenses available - however, the 2X crop factor will make it interesting for birding
you don't need a lot of lenses for digiscopy - however adapters are availible

The sensor is quite noisy compare to Canon and Nikon DSLRs
Paul and me found the noise is comparable to those two until ISO1600 or higher

[JGobeil]

You are entitled to your opinion Tadej. I just expressed mine.

This is a new format: new lenses, new sensor, new electronics - and only version 1.0 is available. The new version will likely show sizeable improvements.

I don't know if you can afford to buy a camera stricly for digiscoping. I can't and this format lacks a true long lens, an effective 15X with AF and IS.

[RJM]

@RJM: Those photos looks very nice - I don't understand your language so may I ask you which scope does he use and if he uses camera with lens atached to eyepiece or camera mounted directley to the scope with t-adapter? Can you write a little report from the shop?

It looks like he used the BORG 77ED telescope at prime focus directly to the t-ring + micro 4/3 adapter, no eyepiece.

cheers,
Rick

[trco]

You are entitled to your opinion Tadej. I just expressed mine.

I don't know if you can afford to buy a camera stricly for digiscoping. I can't and this format lacks a true long lens, an effective 15X with AF and IS.

Jules no hard feelings, I didn't intended to attack you - I hope we're just discussing about possibilities.

I can't afford one more camera but would like to have one for all :t: It looks like 450d is staying (I have too much gear for it right now).

But I will buy some PS camera. Looks like possibilities are:
Nikon p5100 or p6000
Sony dsc-w300 (about 40% cheaper than p6000)
Canon A590IS (abot 50% cheaper than w300)

I'm leaning towards Sony for price/performance. I think Neil have a lot of experience with compacts. Which one will you suggest with Kowa 880? What do others think?

[RJM]

I went and looked at the G1 today. I LOVE IT! I WANT IT! And I almost bought it but for one big deal killer....it is only available with Japanese menus here! I could not believe it. I have never seen a digital camera that was not multilingual.

So I consoled myself with a shiny new Nikon D90! :king:

Rick

[horukuru]

I went and looked at the G1 today. I LOVE IT! I WANT IT! And I almost bought it but for one big deal killer....it is only available with Japanese menus here! I could not believe it. I have never seen a digital camera that was not multilingual.

So I consoled myself with a shiny new Nikon D90! :king:

Rick

wahaha :-O congrats with your D90 and looking forward with your results :)

[Pineywoods Wanderer]

Hello,

I'm planning to get a Pan. G1, and I'm wondering about some digiscoping basics.

How do you connect your camera to the scope--lens thread?
Does your camera autofocus through it? Do you focus the scope?
Do you lose any light through the scope?
What are some good scopes to start out with--I think 20x mag. might be good enough.

[trco]

Hello,

I'm planning to get a Pan. G1, and I'm wondering about some digiscoping basics.

How do you connect your camera to the scope--lens thread?
Does your camera autofocus through it? Do you focus the scope?
Do you lose any light through the scope?
What are some good scopes to start out with--I think 20x mag. might be good enough.

I think nobody actually tried digiscoping with G1 yet. I had an idea to try but decided to keep my EOS 450d for now. You might ask user Neil about digiscoping with DSLR - he gets very good results with his Nikon d90 (http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=124846) and Olympus e-420 (http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=116135).

[Pineywoods Wanderer]

Good links--thanks. I guess my question is how do you digiscope with any DSLR?

Pineywoods W.

[rmel66]

Check this site:
http://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/world/sakurei08_bird/0811/081104a.html

[Pineywoods Wanderer]

Anybody know Japanese? ;)

[Paul Corfield]

Anybody know Japanese? ;)

Quite simple, go to the google translate website or any other similar translation website. Copy and paste in the address of the website you want to convert, select the language you want to convert from and what language to convert it to and it does it all for you.

Paul.

[Skean]

The guy that runs BORG has his G1 digiscoping report up here (http://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/world/sakurei08_bird/0811/081104a.html). Pretty nice pics of a Kingfisher. He seems pretty thrilled. But he gets excited about every new camera! Right now the G1 body sells for about US$690 here in Tokyo. Guess I will go to a shop tomorrow and check it out.

Still think I will get the D90 in the coming weeks as it is a better match to my ED82 fieldscope.

cheers,
Rick

The shots of the kingfisher do not look digiscoped to me. Not sure why they would be used as a reference to good digiscoping camera. The DOF gives that away.
Skean

[Paul Corfield]

The shots of the kingfisher do not look digiscoped to me. Not sure why they would be used as a reference to good digiscoping camera. The DOF gives that away.
Skean

The shots looks exactly like you would get from prime focus scoping with an astro style scope and a dslr, no camera lenses or eyepieces involved so it's not digiscoping in the classic sense of the word. (Speaking from experience as that's how I also take photos).

Paul.

[Skean]

The shots looks exactly like you would get from prime focus scoping with an astro style scope and a dslr, no camera lenses or eyepieces involved so it's not digiscoping in the classic sense of the word. (Speaking from experience as that's how I also take photos).

Paul.

Paul,
Thanks for the clarification. I missed the finer points of this thread! That makes much more sense.
Skean