Best cost / performance ratio?

[Swissboy]

I do not want to duplicate the binocular bargains thread here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=124267

Rather, I would like to start a general collection of models that users think offer particularly much for what they cost. Thus, it is not intended to discuss the most expensive models here. Or where to get the best deal on a particular model. We all know that the tiny bit of extra performance adds immensely to the cost, so here, it's kind of trying to find out what the "lower" end (with respect to cost) has to offer.

Some rough groups would be helpful, like which model offers the best cost /performance benefits among the compacts, among the roofs, and among the porro models? With personal preferences as to objective diameter or magnification.

As a starter, I offer my opinion for porros: Leupold Yosemite 6x30.

And for compact reverse porros: Pentax Papilio 6.5 x 21 with its extreme close focus.

[Sancho]

Great idea for a thread, Swissboy, and should help new buyers sort quickly through the material. My all-time wonder-bins for the price are my EII´s, both the 8x30 and the 10x35 versions. They are both now available from the UK around the 250 sterling mark, and both have "top-end" optics (better IMHO than Leissovskis), with much wider FOV than the other top-enders that cost three or four times as much. If you can live with porros, and don´t need waterproofing, they´re superb. Let´s face it....waterproofing is not really a necessary unless you plan to submerge your bins. If a pair of non-waterproof porros gets fogged-up inside or rained on a lot, you just dry them out again in the airing cupboard. And I´ve never actually had to do this! Another perceived "problem" with the EII´s is the shorter eye-relief....but I wear glasses, and can see the entire FOV with my glasses on and the rubber eyecups rolled down - more FOV than with my EL 8x32 while wearing glasses! (This all depends on your glasses´ frames and lens thickness). FWIW, I think the EII´s are top-end bins, at prices that are cheaper than "mid-priced" roofs. Get them now while you can!;)

[Steve C]

These have been discussed to great length, and I have no real wish to post a lot more on a different thread about them. However, it is my firm belief that the Promaster Infinity Elite ELX/Hawke Frontier ED offer the best cost to performance ratio. Nothing else in their $500 range comes as close to the true alpha optical view as these.

At the other end of the spectrum, the award for the least expensive good binoculars, at $100 or less goes to the Leupold Yosemite.

[Kevin Purcell]

I concur on the Yosemite recommendation (actually both 6x and 8x have their charms).

I also agree on the "Chinese ED" 8x40ish bins that are starting to appear. The Promaster ED and the Hawke Frontier ED are both very good for the price (though they have stray light problems compared to the Alpha bins).

More of these will appear in the next year. For example see the new thread on the unreleased Orion ULX ED 8x42 and 10x42 for $270. We've not seen it yet but I suspect it's out of the same stable (or perhaps the same OEM) as the others. But being sold for almost half the price.

A second class is "porros" given that their price performance beats roofs by a factor two or three. Perhaps even more.

For example the Celestron Ultima DX 8x32 porro in my comparisons regularly beats other roofs up into the $300 to $400 range for sharpness, FOV and brightness. And at it's currrent price of $77 to $90 (originally around $150) it's a bargain.

The Nikon SE 8x32 (and perhaps the 10x42 but I've not played with one) give the Alpha bins a run for their money.

Another generic price/performance class is "second hand bins" and "NOS bargains/closeouts". In my collection my Pentax DCF WP (a $50 NOS from Eagle Optics) has to be the best cost performance I have.

[MacGee]

The Opticron HR WP is exceptionally good for the price. I got mine for £80-something, which must put it near the top of any cost/performance table.

Of the bins mentioned above, I have the Pentax Papilio (but really dislike it for anything other than extreme close-ups) and the Yosemite 6x32 (but have stopped using it altogether in favour of the Olympus PC I 8x25). So not such a good p/p ratio in my case, but then I'm probably peculiar.

Michael

[mark22c]

those russian BPC5 8x30 porro's have got to be a good buy. as they can be had for in most cases for under £30 second hand and are if you find a good pair a lot sharper and better made than most if not all modern cheapies.

[Paskman]

It is all relative. I have a pair of SLCs which I think are worth every penny that I paid for them, however most people I know fall off of their chairs in shock when I tell them how much I paid. Good job I did not buy ELs or the latest BR HDs half of my friends would have passed away with the shocko:D

Paul

[Swissboy]

Unless I have not recognized it, there have not been any suggestions for compacts of the roof type. Yet, very often, it would be extremely convenient to have such a compact model along. I have compact Trinovids and Ultravids, but how about a type that offers almost as much yet costs much less?
One could argue, though, that the 8x20 and 10x25 Ultravids are so exceedingly good that they do fit into the group of models with extremely good cost / performance ratio. That was definitely the case before Leica started to increase their prices a few years back. But my original question was primarily meant to provide guidelines for those who would want to spend considerably less.

[John M Robinson]

How about best buys at various price points?

Say $100.00 and less = Yosemites
$200-350 = Swift Furys?
$350-$600 = Chinese ED 8x42
$600-$800 Meopta, Nikon SE, other ideas?
$800-$1,000 Close out deals on Leica Trinovid and Ultravid BRs

[Steve C]

John,

Swift Fury's huh? Where do we put the Vortex Eaglet?;) A nice binocular would result from the appropriate hybrid vigor in those two glasses. I'd be really happy with the Swift optics with a Fury FOV.

[John M Robinson]

I guess it was a Freudian slip as I always wanted your 7x36 Eaglet with a bigger FOV...

[BirderSean]

How about best buys at various price points?


$800-$1,000 Close out deals on Leica Trinovid and Ultravid BRs

just curious, where are you finding close-out deals
on Trinovids??? (in the US??)

[ceasar]

How about best buys at various price points?

Say $100.00 and less = Yosemites
$200-350 = Swift Furys?
$350-$600 = Chinese ED 8x42
$600-$800 Meopta, Nikon SE, other ideas?
$800-$1,000 Close out deals on Leica Trinovid and Ultravid BRs

Throw in the discontinued Nikon LX L's in the last two categories also.
bob

[Swissboy]

How about best buys at various price points?



That would be another approach along the same question of cost / performance ratio. But if I am looking for say a compact, but I'd rather not spend a fortune, which model should I choose? That's the philosophy behind my original question. So I'm still interested in the type of binocular as well. Not necessarily for myself, but for people who had asked me for advice because they thought with all the optics I have, I should know.

[John M Robinson]

just curious, where are you finding close-out deals
on Trinovids??? (in the US??)

The shop I have bought all of my alpha bins here in Kalispell Montana has two Trinovids left, a 8x42BN and a 12x50BN. $1,050.00 for the 8x42, $1,250.00 for the 12x50. Both are new in the box with all accessories and the Lifetime Passport warranty. He will ship and has sold to some other forum guys (24 hour campfire furum), who were very happy with his service. His number is (406) 756-3500, ask for Dennis (wed and thurs are his days off).

[Kevin Purcell]

That would be another approach along the same question of cost / performance ratio. But if I am looking for say a compact, but I'd rather not spend a fortune, which model should I choose? That's the philosophy behind my original question. So I'm still interested in the type of binocular as well. Not necessarily for myself, but for people who had asked me for advice because they thought with all the optics I have, I should know.

On the particular example of compacts: they rather defeat the best buy approach as you can't order them along any single parameter.

There are three parameters: size, view quality and price. The "best buy" depends strongly on how the user values each each of those three parameters. Note: there is no small/light, inexpensive compact bin with a good view. You can usually get two of the three with some searching.

Search for the multiple threads in the forum on compacts were this has been hammered out. Multiple times. ;)

Though if you want a single model to try I think it would Tero's favorite: Bushnell Excursion 8x28. I've not tried it but based on experience with others in that model range they have OK optics with phase compensation, decent ergonomics, OK size/weight and lowish price. I suspect that they have something in common with the Vortex Hurricanes (same OEM?) in which case they won't deal with stray light as well as one would hope. See it's all a trade off.

[chartwell99]

FWIW, I think the EII´s are top-end bins, at prices that are cheaper than "mid-priced" roofs. Get them now while you can!;)

I could not agree more. Especially, the 10 x 35 EII which never fails to amaze all who experience it for the first time.

[DHB]

The 8x28 Excursions are dandy's but I don't consider them a compact. They have a nice wide FOV and in the samples I had were sharper than the Vortex Fury 8x28. In a true compact Leica, Nikon, Zeiss, Swaro shine.

[Kevin Purcell]

The 8x28 Excursions are dandy's but I don't consider them a compact. They have a nice wide FOV and in the samples I had were sharper than the Vortex Fury 8x28. In a true compact Leica, Nikon, Zeiss, Swaro shine.

I'd differentiate between compact (i.e. smaller than a mid-sized bin) and pocket sized (which all Alpha small bins are along with excellent optical).

As I said a different people have a different ordering of priorities e.g. cost is not an important one with the Alphas pocket bins.

[OwenM]

In a true compact Leica, Nikon, Zeiss, Swaro shine.
That's what I'm afraid of. Nothing else seems to. If I'll actually use an Ultravid 8x20 that costs $699 every single day, does that make it a better buy than a $100 Nikon or Steiner that I never use, and end up just throwing in the trash(yes, I did)?

Right now I think some serious performance vs. cost can be found in the Pentax DCF EDs. Both of the 8x are available at under $600, the 10x43 for $699, and the 10x50 for $799-different dealers, but all prices from Amazon.com. I actually got the 8x32 for under $500.
In a lower price bracket, the entire SP series is now available for less than $500. $398 for the 8x43 and $324.95 for the 8x32.

A Bass Pro Shop Outdoor Center is opening locally next Wednesday, so hopefully I will be able to compare the DCF EDs to ELs, FLs, and Ultravid HDs for the first time next week. Get to check out those compacts, too!

[stereotruckdriver]

OwenM, those prices for the DCF ED's??? I would definetly say that would be a huge bargain and performance vs. price!!! I have the 10x43 ED's and even at the price I originally paid I thought they were a bargain!!! Bryce...

[OwenM]

Yep. I did even better, and caught my 8x32 DCF ED at $488.35 shipped. I don't know what the deal is. These price breaks have been going on for awhile. Started with the SPs this spring, and now the bottom has dropped out on the EDs. Earlier this year, I got the 8x32 SP for $313, and the 12.5x50 for $530(now the 12.5x is even cheaper). Liked the 8x32 so much that I jumped on the ED version when I saw that price.

[JohnJos]

...FWIW, I think the EII´s are top-end bins, at prices that are cheaper than "mid-priced" roofs. Get them now while you can!;)
My question is where can you get them. I've been searching for months and haven't found a source for the EIIs. Please let me know if there's a secret stash of them around somewhere. Thanks!

[JDonley]

JohnJos;

EII's available at Ace Camera UK and PhotoWarehouse in NZ Don't know if there are any export tariffs or what the postge would be. They both have web sites of course.

don

[JohnJos]

Thanks Don. I'll check them out.

I'm also interested in the Pentax DCF 8x32 ED bins. I'm waiting on a pair of SPs that I bought for $298. Should arrive tomorrow for some weekend use in the field. The EDs I've seen on-line are $600+. I'll have to keep an eye out for that sub $500 deal.

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this great thread.

[JohnJos]

So, if I find the EII stocked somewhere, which would be the better buy? the 8x30 or the 10x35?

I use 8X bins typically, so I would go for that version of the EII unless folks really thought the 10X produced an overall better view. Personal taste I know. I just want your personal opinions. Thanks.

[ceasar]

I have both of them. For general use, especially in woodland applications, the 8 x 30 is better. Huge FOV (462'). Very easy to use, especially when you are trying to find and then follow a moving bird. Surprisingly bright and very sharp. My 10 x 35's don't get as much use now that I have a 10 x 42 SE but I like their wide FOV (375') very much and they are ideal for raptor watching. The 8 x 30 and 10 x 35 share the same eyepieces, prisms and prism housing so the over all characteristics of their ergonomics and view are much alike.

As far as purchase price goes, the 8 x 30 normally sold for around $250.00; about $200.00 less than the 10 x 35. Cameraland NY lists them but you have to call for a price. You can see pictures of them there.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/nikon.pl?page=nikon7410 (BTW: the one pictured here is a 10 x 35.)
Bob

[jimtrader11]

JohnJos;

EII's available at Ace Camera UK and PhotoWarehouse in NZ Don't know if there are any export tariffs or what the postge would be. They both have web sites of course.

don

I am in the US and was interested in getting a backup pair a few weeks ago while they are still available. I enquired to ACE about buying a pair and having them ship to the me. They told me that they cannot do that. I dont remember their reason why.
With the present economic conditions, I'm no longer interested but the thought occured to me that maybe someone in England could help a group member or more in the US, by buying and shipping them from there.

[ceasar]

I am in the US and was interested in getting a backup pair a few weeks ago while they are still available. I enquired to ACE about buying a pair and having them ship to the me. They told me that they cannot do that. I dont remember their reason why.
With the present economic conditions, I'm no longer interested but the thought occured to me that maybe someone in England could help a group member or more in the US, by buying and shipping them from there.

I have heard that they are still popular and good sellers in Japan.
Bob

[JohnJos]

Thanks guys for the info. I'll keep looking for a new or VG used 8x30 EII.

[Paskman]

Thanks guys for the info. I'll keep looking for a new or VG used 8x30 EII.
John,

There is a pair for sale currently from a UK seller on fleabay. Drop him a pm - he might ship to the USA.

Paul

[Swedpat]

My opinion:

The binocular with the indisputable best cost/performance ratio ever offered:
Bresser 10x50 from Lidl

Nr2: Leupold Yosemite 6x30


Regards, Patric

[Swissboy]

My opinion:

The binocular with the indisputable best cost/performance ratio ever offered:
Bresser 10x50 from Lidl

Nr2: Leupold Yosemite 6x30


Regards, Patric

Thanks Patric for bringing us back to the intended topic. Several of the previous posts are more along the Binocular Bargains thread which I did not want to compete against nor split it. It's helpful to have as much info on one particular topic together.

[J. Moore]

Before the aforementioned Hawke and Promaster binoculars came out, one review site (birdwatching.com)nominated the Vortex Viper as being the "best binocular buy of all". I think it is still a strong contender for that title if you are looking for a light weight waterproof 8 x 42 or 10 x 42 with generous eye relief, a bulletproof warranty, fairly fast focus, and a locking diopter. And for most birders, the optics are so good that Alpha binoculars appear only slightly superior. (But if getting the highest optical quality per dollar is your primary goal, the Hawke or Promaster are apparently a better bet--but like most here I have only read the reviews of the latter).

Jim