Is this a good bargain?

[craig braddick]

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=980

They are only $50

Can anyone tell me about these bins?

Thanks

Craig

[ceasar]

Based on their price and stats one can project that they will have a very narrow field of view, and since they don't have phase coating they won't be ideally sharp and will have even less sharp edges and will probably be rather dim. At 12 power you will likely find them hard to keep steady while using them unless you brace yourself against some support. If they have a built in tripod thread and you keep them on a tripod you might find them useful on bright days for long distance viewing but they won't be a very useful all purpose binocular.
Bob

[GeneralEverything]

Apparently, their name is meant to capitalize off the Pentax DCF name, through similar naming. Recently, the US courts held a company liable for taking a website that looked exactly the same as the american idol website, with an address that was one misspelling different; said website charged people money to vote; the court decided that the people were deliberately misled into thinking they were using the free American Idol service.

That is not the case with this binocular. Is it something of the same concept? You decide. Generally, a product that is good but cheap will stand on it's own merits regardless of name; for proof positive, look no further than the promaster infinty elite elx ed. My experience has never been good with products that tried to capitalize off mistaken association. Most people here agree that there are very few binoculars with a list price less than $100 are worthwhile. That said, it's your money, and do as you please.

For suggestions that are around $50, I'd strongly urge you to consider these:
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3720
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=5375
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3531
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3304
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/nikon.pl?page=nikon7216
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/nikon.pl?page=nikon7215
On the whole, they are less sexy porro prisms (old-school). This is because quality binoculars can be made for less money with this mechanism. They are less cool though. If you must spend $50, any of these are most likely better. At $50, you must accept compromises. No binocular is going to be good and good looking for that price, from what I've seen. In general, stick with quality brands below $100. Most people here spend far more money on binoculars (anything under $1000 is considered mid-priced here!), so most suggestions will be to spend lots more $$. I would say the same thing, except you probably don't want to budge. There's a time and a place for everything. Also, order from a quality merchant that will allow you to return binoculars if you don't like them.

If you could stretch up to $90, the Leupold Yosemite, in either 6x30 or 8x30 will do you very well. It is commonly accepted as one of the best bargain binoculars on the market. Many people here have them for backups, and the fact that even people who pay $1000+ for binoculars own a pair should let you know it's a very fine binocular.
Cheers,
GenEv

[Matt_RTH]

How do you want to use them? Are they a going to be used as "all around" or for specific purpose? I would highly recommend against 12x for the reason already given - stability! The absolute best all around for me (and many others) is 8x32 or 8x42. Will it be used in low light?

With the hand shaking that 12x will magnify, I almost guarantee that a decent 8x or 7x will show more than this 12x. The price is more "you get what you pay for" than a bargain.

[Kevin Purcell]

My experience has never been good with products that tried to capitalize off mistaken association.

FYI, the DCF "Pentax DCF" just means Pentax roof prism from the german Dachprizm and Center Focus. DCF was original used by Leitz and Zeiss but the Japanese picked up on it too. PCF are the porros. UCF are the reverse porros.

This is a Pentax bin ... the entry at Eagle Optics is just a bit messed up and omits the brand name. If you look at the image provided on the web page you can see the Pentax label on the bins.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/pentax-binoculars-dcf-hr-12x42.html
http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-DCF-HR-12x42-Binocular/dp/B00005QT4Y

The model names are the letters that go with that: HR in this case. Since the HR there has been a HR II and a HRc up to the current HS (the current Pentax 36mm bin).

Based on their price and stats one can project that they will have a very narrow field of view, and since they don't have phase coating they won't be ideally sharp and will have even less sharp edges and will probably be rather dim.

Are you sure about the phase coating Cesear? Or just speculating based on price ;)

They're NOS Pentax bins. Just like the (very nice) $50 Pentax WP 8x32 I got from Eagle a couple of months back.

The problem with these ones is they're 12x so if you want 12x perhaps to tripod mount for watching shorebirds with both eyes I suspect they'll work fine. Handheld ... not so much. In fact I've been considering getting a pair for this rather specialized use.

So do they have PC? e.g.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10&Number=22915&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&vc=1

The Pentax DCF HR is their high end "high resolution" phase coated roof prism model.

IIRC correctly the HR came after the WP (Pentax's first phase corrected roof in the mid-1990s) so I suspect these do have PC.

Can anyone recall this for sure?

BTW, just like the HS these are JIS 4 bins (weather resistant not waterproof against immersion).

[GeneralEverything]

FYI, the DCF "Pentax DCF" just means Pentax roof prism from the german Dachprizm and Center Focus. DCF was original used by Leitz and Zeiss but the Japanese picked up on it too. PCF are the porros. UCF are the reverse porros.

This is a Pentax bin ... the entry at Eagle Optics is just a bit messed up and omits the brand name. If you look at the image provided on the web page you can see the Pentax label on the bins.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/pentax-binoculars-dcf-hr-12x42.html
http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-DCF-HR-12x42-Binocular/dp/B00005QT4Y

The model names are the letters that go with that: HR in this case. Since the HR there has been a HR II and a HRc up to the current HS (the current Pentax 36mm bin).


Ouch.
Now that I've commenced wiping off the egg, I'll let you speculate. I wasn't sure that they weren't just a Pentax clone. I defer to your better judgment. I was assuming eagle would put Pentax if they were, because that is a selling point.
Suitably chastened,
GenEv

[OwenM]

They are listed under Pentax, and the brand name shows next to the model number in the links at the top, just is not included in the model name for some reason.

Kevin, there is a page....somewhere, that has the history of Pentax binocular models by date. I've seen it before, and thought it was on the www.pentaxsportoptics.com site, but can't find it at the moment.
I'll keep looking.

[OwenM]

Here is the owner's manual. They are available for past models on pentaximaging.com-as I discovered while still looking for the list by date.
http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/manual/8x42_DCFHR10x42_DCFHR_12x42_DCFHR.pdf

Here is the link to the main page for the manuals for anyone interested:
http://www.pentaximaging.com/support/manuals-and-literature/
It also has links to search their other products besides binoculars.

edit: I want a modern version of the 7.4oz. DCF 7x20 with 7.5 degree FOV!

[Tero]

Well, it might be a good bargain for the birder who already has everything. But in my experience, spend the most money with the power you are actually going to use, be it 12x, 10x, 8x or 7x.

[ceasar]

FYI, the DCF "Pentax DCF" just means Pentax roof prism from the german Dachprizm and Center Focus. DCF was original used by Leitz and Zeiss but the Japanese picked up on it too. PCF are the porros. UCF are the reverse porros.

This is a Pentax bin ... the entry at Eagle Optics is just a bit messed up and omits the brand name. If you look at the image provided on the web page you can see the Pentax label on the bins.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/pentax-binoculars-dcf-hr-12x42.html
http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-DCF-HR-12x42-Binocular/dp/B00005QT4Y

The model names are the letters that go with that: HR in this case. Since the HR there has been a HR II and a HRc up to the current HS (the current Pentax 36mm bin).



Are you sure about the phase coating Cesear? Or just speculating based on price ;)

They're NOS Pentax bins. Just like the (very nice) $50 Pentax WP 8x32 I got from Eagle a couple of months back.

The problem with these ones is they're 12x so if you want 12x perhaps to tripod mount for watching shorebirds with both eyes I suspect they'll work fine. Handheld ... not so much. In fact I've been considering getting a pair for this rather specialized use.

So do they have PC? e.g.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10&Number=22915&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&vc=1



IIRC correctly the HR came after the WP (Pentax's first phase corrected roof in the mid-1990s) so I suspect these do have PC.

Can anyone recall this for sure?

BTW, just like the HS these are JIS 4 bins (weather resistant not waterproof against immersion).

Eagle Optics usually mentions it if they are PC. If they forgot to do so in this instance, all the better for a prospective buyer.:t:
Bob

[Kevin Purcell]

Here is the owner's manual. They are available for past models on pentaximaging.com-as I discovered while still looking for the list by date.
http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/manual/8x42_DCFHR10x42_DCFHR_12x42_DCFHR.pdf

Here is the link to the main page for the manuals for anyone interested:
http://www.pentaximaging.com/support/manuals-and-literature/
It also has links to search their other products besides binoculars.

edit: I want a modern version of the 7.4oz. DCF 7x20 with 7.5 degree FOV!

Very good catch, Owen.

The manual direct link is

http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/manual/8x42_DCFHR10x42_DCFHR_12x42_DCFHR.pdf

No mention of phase correction in the features section. I note the WP that does have phase correction does have it mentioned in the manual.

So maybe I was mistaken and the HR came before the WP. I think that would make it the first of the Pentax roofs? Hmmm, the HRc (a JIS 6 version doesn't have phase compensation mentioned in the features either). So that's not looking so good ;)

I think the current designers really could benefit from looking at the "back catalog" and coming up with "modern" versions. That 7x20 sounds great!

BTW, the Eagle Optics page appeared at the same time as the other $50 Pentax new/old stock pages on Saturday. Looks like it may have been put up by someone not totally familiar with their system. The Pentax WP 8x32 and that page was also a bit messed up too. There is also a big heavy (38oz?) marine Pentax PCF 7x50 that SteveC bought and likes (IIRC).

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3304

[Alexis Powell]

My recollection is that the HR was not phase coated. I remember the bino because of the contrast between the name HR (High Resolution) and the actual performance. I was not impressed with the 8x42 version, even in its day and compared to other roofs without phase coating. By modern standards it would be quite dull indeed.

--AP

[Steve C]

I think phase correction was one of the improvements offered in the HR II series. Small matter now. Eagle Optics no longer has any listed.