So where is the oldest tallest Etc......?

[Steve]

So where is the oldest, tallest Etc......?

Googlers on your marks ,get set .............BANG

[Michael Frankis]

Errm Tim,

This is the new Trees Forum ;)

Oldest: species: Pinus longaeva, individual: "Methuselah", 4700 years. Growing in the White Mountains, Calif., been there, seen it, got some cones from it.

Tallest: species: Sequoia sempervirens, individual: "Stratosphere Giant", 112.6m tall. Growing in the Humboldt Redwoods State Park, Calif., been there, didn't knowingly see this individual but did see some 110m ones in the area

All done without Google :D

Michael

[Michael Frankis]

Largest tree overall (volume): species: Sequoiadendron giganteum, individual "General Sherman", 83.8m tall, trunk 9.95m diameter, total volume 1487 cubic metres. Growing in Sequoia National Park, Calif.

Stoutest tree (thickest trunk): species: Taxodium mucronatum, individual "Arbol del Tule", trunk 11.42m diameter. Growing at Santa Maria del Tule, Oaxaca, Mexico.

Note that on all four measures, the winner is a conifer :D :t: :D

Michael

[Michael Frankis]

Tallest tree in Britain: Pseudotsuga menziesii, 63m, at Moniack Glen near Inverness

Tallest tree in Europe: Abies nordmanniana, 78m, in Caucasus National Reserve, Russia

Oldest tree in Europe: Taxus baccata, estimated possibly 4,000 years old, at Fortingall, Perthshire

Once again . . . all conifers ;)

Michael

[Steve]

I tramped round muir woods in San fran a few times, great place huge trees, redwoods I think ?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Steve,

Yep, they're Sequoia sempervirens (Coast Redwood). Checked up (did use google for this!!) the tallest in Muir Woods is 77m - being on the coast, it is a bit too exposed for really tall trees there

Michael

[Tim Allwood]

What are the highly endangered smallish trees native to the mid/high Andes (the World's highest forest), up to 5100 meters and home to some of South America's rarest birds, including Ash-Breasted Tit-Tyrant, Royal Cinclodes, Cochabamba Mountain-Finch and the stunning Giant Conebill?

[Steve]

Good one Tim highest growing tree like it!

[Tim Allwood]

What is unusual about the St Helena Olive?


and what are Moon trees?

[satrow]

What is the current concensus on the age of the Huon Pine(s) in Tasmania, Michael?

Andy.

[Michael Frankis]

What are the highly endangered smallish trees native to the mid/high Andes (the World's highest forest), up to 5100 meters and home to some of South America's rarest birds, including Ash-Breasted Tit-Tyrant, Royal Cinclodes, Cochabamba Mountain-Finch and the stunning Giant Conebill?
Hi Tim,

Polylepis tarapacana.

See e.g.
http://www.duke.edu/~bsb3/bolivia/ted.htm

Michael

[Michael Frankis]

What is the current concensus on the age of the Huon Pine(s) in Tasmania, Michael?

Andy.
Hi Andy,

About 2,500 years, possibly up to 3,000 years. The claims of far older 'trees' are speculated ages of clones, not measured ages of individual trees.
http://www.botanik.uni-bonn.de/conifers/po/la/index.htm

Michael

[Michael Frankis]

What is unusual about the St Helena Olive?
Nearly extinct, one small plant surviving in cultivation
http://www.the-islander.org.ac/artd_533_11_2003_14.html

and what are Moon trees?
These?
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/moon_tree.html

Michael

[Colin]

The oldest and tallest in Britain, in Scotland ought to worth a visit when I do my next Scottish Birding trip. I assume it is easy enough to find them, or are they on private land and out of view? Does anyone know?

[Doug Greenberg]

[QUOTE=Steve]So where is the oldest, tallest Etc......?

You forgot "largest" tree, which arguably is the General Sherman tree (formerly known as the "Karl Marx tree") in Sequoia National Park, California. The Giant Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) is a different species from the Coastal redwood (Sequoiadendron sempervirens)

The General Sherman tree: height 83.6 m, dbh 825 cm, crown spread 33 m, located in Sequoia National Park, CA. This tree also has the largest known stem volume, 1473.4 m3.

Of course, for many of these claims there are complications, as it's hard to agree on what defines a "single organism." Apparently there are species of banyan trees (Ficus) that form clumps that sprawl over several acres. Are these one organism, or many? Similarly for age, there are species such as the Creosote bush that lives in the Mojave Desert in California, where there is extensive reproduction by cloning from the root crown. Some argue that these clone colonies, which span generations, constitute a single organism and hence qualify as the "oldest" living things.

Read on:

"The earth's oldest living organism may be the scraggly creosote bush, according to an article by Janet White which appeared in the November 11 issue of the U.C. Clip Sheet, a weekly newspaper published by the University of California. Writes White'; 'University of California botanist Frank Vasek has shown that creosote bushes growing in circular clusters are direct offshoots or 'clones' of a single individual. Some may be more than 10,000 years old, twice the age of the fabled bristlecone pine and three times that of the massive redwood trees, previously thought to be the world's oldest living things.

A scrawny plant that appears to suffer a slow starvation on the desert floor, the creosote is, in fact, a champion of survival according to Vasek's findings published in the 'American Journal of Botany.'

'The oldest we found, dubbed King Clone, is 11,700 years old by our estimates,' Vasek said. ' We believe it was one of the first life forms to colonize the Mojave Desert when the last glacier receded, and has been a continuous resident there ever since.'

[Tim Allwood]

Well done Michael

Moon trees indeed!

[Michael Frankis]

The oldest and tallest in Britain, in Scotland ought to worth a visit when I do my next Scottish Birding trip. I assume it is easy enough to find them, or are they on private land and out of view? Does anyone know?
Hi Colin,

Moniack Glen (the tallest in the UK is Forestry Commission with public access; just off the A862 about 8 miles west of Inverness, car park at the indicator arrow, walk up along the burn where it says 'Forest walk':
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=255840&y=843125&z=4&sv=255500,843500&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=801
Seeing the tallest tree there is tricky though, as it is surrounded by about 50 others which are almost as tall - you have to guess, basically, as it isn't indicated. But the effect of so many tall trees makes it all the better, of course.

The Fortingall Yew is in a churchyard; it isn't anything much to write home about to see, as 80% of the trunk was hacked away by 18th century souvenir hunters (vandals!) but what's left is healthy. In 1769, the trunk was reported to be 52 feet circumference (5m diameter). About 8 miles west of Aberfeldy:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=274430&y=747130&z=4&sv=274500,747500&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=801

Michael

[Michael Frankis]

[QUOTE=Steve]So where is the oldest, tallest Etc......?

You forgot "largest" tree .....
The General Sherman tree: height 83.6 m, dbh 825 cm, crown spread 33 m, located in Sequoia National Park, CA. This tree also has the largest known stem volume, 1473.4 m3.


Hi Doug,

You missed post #3 ;)

Of the Creosote Bushes etc - same as for the Huon Pine that Andy (Satrow) asked about - they're groups of genetically identical plants, not an individual. To my mind, they've no better claim than say, a colony of aphids reproducing by parthenogenesis. Using their arguments, the largest single plant in the world is actually the sugar cane cultivar 'CP 89-2143', vegetatively reproduced and grown on millions of hectares around the world . . . reductio ad absurdam its true, but it is no different than the Creosote Bush claims

Michael

[christineredgate]

how about the "Major Oak" in Clumber Park,Notts for the oldest tree in England?.

[Colin]

Michael,
Thanks for that, I will try and visit later this year.

[satrow]

Re oldest trees - "There are still some uncertainties with tree-ring dating, which is by no means absolute (for example, trees can form more than one ring per year). Nevertheless, it is worth noting that the maximum tree ring ages for living trees fall just within this range. Apart from the biblical Flood, there seems no reason why, if certain trees are capable of living for 4,000 years, some should not have lasted much longer."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/546.asp

Andy.

[Michael Frankis]

how about the "Major Oak" in Clumber Park,Notts for the oldest tree in England?.
A youngster - estimated age about 600. There's a lot of yews in England much older than that, some of them estimated in the 3,000+ range - the oldest is possibly the Tandridge Yew in Surrey (3.2m diameter), but there's 7 other contenders in England, and also the Gresford Yew in north Wales, all around 3m diameter (a very rough guide for yews (and only for yews!) is 1000 years for each metre trunk diameter)

Thanks for that, I will try and visit later this year.
Good luck!

Also worth taking in, the Douglas-fir at the Hermitage, Dunkeld (5 mins walk off the A9), at 62m the second-tallest tree in Britain - park at the Hermitage (Nat Trust Scotland), walk up the path under the railway bridge, and carry on until you're at a viewpoint looking across a bend in the stream. Its the huge tree just across the stream, at the orange arrow:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=300920&y=741725&z=4&sv=300500,741500&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=801
I had to take two photos and stitch them together:

Michael

[Steve G]

Apart from the old Yew at Fortingall, the place is also famous as the birthplace of Pontius Pilot (????) -aledgedly! I remember many years back asking an old lady who ran a B&B about this & she replied : "aye, it's weel-kent Pontius Pilot's mither wis a Menzies(pronounced MING- IS)!). ;)

[Brian Stone]

A pic of the Fortingall Yew taken last year (my brother-in-law lives close by).

[LzyPhotographer]

How about bonsai? Is there an oldest/smallest?

[Michael Frankis]

Presumably in Japan - maybe Charles can find out?

Michael

[StevieEvans]

New Forums.
Where are they appearing from..... :h?:

Two that i have accidently 'bumped into' are 'Owls' & 'Trees', and are coincidentally 2 of my favourite interests !

Good for Me.

Anyway i have a couple of interesting photos of bud deformities that i shall post when i locate them in my PC. (sambucus & fraxinous).

StevieE.

[spanishalex]

The dragon tree at Icod de Los Vinos on Tenerife is considered to be thousands of years old but since it is still going and the species doesn't lay down rings nobody will ever be sure. What is interesting is that it is probably the only organism on earth that has given its genes to the entire population of its species. As the single largest pollen producer on the island for hundreds of years, most younger trees on Tenerife are probably directly descended from it.

[Charles Harper]

Bonsai records are probably over here, but inscrutable.

What I was trying to remember, however, was the oldest camellia or rose or something that I saw at one of the Antebellum mansions in South Carolina, growing since the Revolutionary War (1770s). Straggly old bush, it was. KC or anybody down there know?

[Zimbernard]

Adansonia digitata, the Baobab, is generally reconed to be 2000 to 2500 years old in some of the biggest specimins

[Chris D]

If anyone from the U.K. or anywhere else for that matter, is driving in the American West and you can make it to Eastern California............ While on Route 395 turn East at "Big Pine" and drive up into the White Mountains. Try to do this a few hours before sunset. Drive slow, but don't stop until you reach the Patriarch Grove of Bristle Cone Pines mentioned in the beginning of this thread. The landscape is very "Park-Like" --open with huge ancient trees........and the view to the West is of the 14,000 foot spine of the Sierra. The western slope of which hold groves of Giant Sequoias. It's safe, and you can eat a good steak in Bishop, the go to Bodie.......a real relic mining town. Those Bristle Cones are breathtaking........

[mike coleman]

"aye, it's weel-kent Pontius Pilot's mither wis a Menzies(pronounced MING- IS)!). ;)

For those less well versed in Scots this translates as "yes indeed, it's a well known fact that the dear old mum of Pontius Pilate was one of those Menzies from Bridge Street, you know the one's who had the old baker's shop.................."

[Michael Frankis]

If anyone from the U.K. or anywhere else for that matter, is driving in the American West and you can make it to Eastern California............ While on Route 395 turn East at "Big Pine" and drive up into the White Mountains. Try to do this a few hours before sunset. Drive slow, but don't stop until you reach the Patriarch Grove of Bristle Cone Pines mentioned in the beginning of this thread. The landscape is very "Park-Like" --open with huge ancient trees........and the view to the West is of the 14,000 foot spine of the Sierra. Those Bristle Cones are breathtaking........
Gotta agree with this!

Michael

[MikeMules]

Tallest: species: Sequoia sempervirens, individual: "Stratosphere Giant", 112.6m tall. Growing in the Humboldt Redwoods State Park, Calif., been there, didn't knowingly see this individual but did see some 110m ones in the area


Michael

Alternately, Tallest species: Eucalyptus regnans, an individual specimen felled and measured in 1884 near Thorpdale in the Strzelecki Ranges, Victoria. It measured 114m. My school bus drove past the (now treeless) site every afternoon.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Mike,


Alternately, Tallest species: Eucalyptus regnans, an individual specimen felled and measured in 1884 near Thorpdale in the Strzelecki Ranges, Victoria. It measured 114m. My school bus drove past the (now treeless) site every afternoon.
Unverified and generally considered unreliable. There's some even bigger claims, e.g. a claim of a 127m Pseudotsuga menziesii from British Columbia, felled in 1885.

Michael

[Chris D]

Hey, Having been to Australia a few times.........I did hear quite often about Eucalypts reaching 400 feet in the south. Perhaps just a rumor, but to have such a tree... with a "Crown!" Would be a stunner. I was thinking of another connifer that visitors to America might enjoy........ If ever you are in Washington State, go to Olympic National Park and walk the trail to Solduc Falls. The forest is all Douglas Fir with no understory. 2 - 300 foot tall trees with no branches for the 1st hundred or so. Miles and miles of these beauties. 5 - 12 feet in diameter at breast height. That this park was established is testament to hard work by common people.......

[Rasmus Boegh]

Michael,

So, what about the oldest and tallest tree in Denmark? I know you used to live in Denmark, and I was just wondering...

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Rasmus,

I don't have anything up-to-date, but the tallest at least used to be an Abies concolor 45m tall at Langesø (and even longer ago, an Abies alba 47.8m tall at Furesø Nørreskov; died 1965). I can try and find out, though

The oldest is the Kongeeg, in Jægerspris Nordskov, estimated to be about 1000-1200 years old

Michael