Got my Promaster 8x42's!!

[lulubelle]

Only got them this afternoon and played with them for a little while, but I am impressed so far! In comparing them with my Ranger SRT's, I am impressed with the larger FOV and the clarity & brightness. I had tried them in the store, walked outside and did a quick comparison with mine & wasn't so sure that they were really that much better, but now know that they are!! I had my 19 yr old son look through them and he was impressed immediately! However, I won't be able to give them a proper testing till Saturday, much to my dismay! Something to look forward to right?! They are actually about 6 oz heavier than my current bins, but they DO NOT feel it. I was concerned about the additional length & weight, but it seems very comfortable in my hands so far. I am excited so far!!:t:

[Tero]

I had my 10x out, and did see a couple of bald eagles through them, but heck, I would be impressed by eagles so close through Powerview porros. Otherwise it was a dismal day and there was even a bit of haze. In the distance, I could see birds but not really ID them well. One was crow size, so it was a crow. Best bird: mocking bird. So, still, no color.

The issues of color and contrast will have to wait better days.

[lulubelle]

I tried the 10x's outside of the store as well and the decreased FOV was more than I wanted. I am curious how they will perform for you on a brighter day. I agree about the eagles!

[Steve C]

My 8x42's are outstanding in the dim and gloomy weather.

[DHB]

I think the 8x42 Promasters are a total winner. 10x's were VERY good but not quite as outstanding as the 8x's.

[Tero]

Well, as long as we are at it, the brightness may be one issue with the 10x. They are bright enough..I have been out to the river with 8x25 pocket binocualrs and never got much satisfaction...but I feel this is probably one area where the alpha binoculars at 10x42 are going to beat the ProMasters pretty easily. On a day like today, I would most prefer to be looking through a 20x65 scope. But I was there from work, no scope.

I also see that 8.5x42s might be a good compromise overall. If I got a really wide field, it might eventually take over my 10x use.

Or an alpha 9x42, but that will never come out.

[Kevin Purcell]

Or an alpha 9x42, but that will never come out.

Swaro 8.5x42 is close enough.

Start saving those bino-bucks ;)

[FrankD]

Glad to hear you are happy with your new purchase Laura. I look forward to seeing further comments as you get more and more time to use them.

[lulubelle]

Thanks so, so very much for all of your help Frank! I am going to order the Cascades & Legends for comparison as you suggested. I did notice a little softness (I guess you would call it) around the edges - it is not a crisp clean view literally from edge to edge. I thought I had noticed that in the store and I am still seeing it when I deliberately look at all angles of my field of view. The "sweet spot" as you gentlemen refer to it, it quite nice!! I did go out as dusk and try them out and I have to say, even then the clarity and brightness was evident.

[DHB]

Tero - I compared my ProMaster to my 8.5EL and can honestly say they are as bright. I sold my EL and am perfectly content. I felt I needed to retain one set of Alpha so I am keeping the Leica 10x42 Trinovid and sold the 10x42 Promaster but honestly they were as good but the slower focus on the 10x42 made me sell them and keep the Leica.

To me the ONLY hangup is durability and availability of repair/replacement.

Dave

[Tero]

OK, thanks. I am waiting for a couple hours of weekend birding.

[FrankD]

To me the ONLY hangup is durability and availability of repair/replacement.


Dave,

Are you saying that one has to question both because they haven't been on the market long or did you have an actual problem with either issue?

[lulubelle]

I don't know how long they have been in the binocular game, but I don't get the impression that they are a new company. When I spoke to Mike at Mike's Camera, he seemed to indicate a good track record for the company.

[Tero]

Promaster binoculars have been in the stores 5 years at least and camera supplies, like tripods and such, at least 10 years.

[FrankD]

I am guessing he was just referring to the durability/longevity of this particular model since it only has been on the market for about 6 months.

[Kevin Purcell]

I am guessing he was just referring to the durability/longevity of this particular model since it only has been on the market for about 6 months.

That said FrankD is one of the people who made use of the "non-fault" warranty. It seemed to work with a prompt replacement.

[FrankD]

True. Geez, it is amazing some of things you forget. I really need to slow down.

[lulubelle]

Took the new bins out for a spin this morning and I am pleased and a bit displeased all at the same time. The clarity and brightness is amazing and after looking through them for over an hour and then picking up my Rangers, I was really impressed with the Promasters! However, the softness around the edge really others me. As I used them more it seemd a little less noticable, but never completely gone. I adjusted them as much as I thought necessary and never could get a clean edge to view. I am also a bit concerned about the slow focus wheel, I was trying to watch a RTH as it flew across a pond and couldn't refocus fast enough to get it. This may be just a matter of getting used to it. Until I started reading this forum, I wasn't familiar with stuff like CA, stray light,etc., but I feel now I have a slightly better understanding of what I am seeing. In the noon light, I seem to pick up whitish half moons at the bottoms of the bins, not had this happen with my Rangers. Is this the stray light thing?

Optically, these are far & above my current bins and for $429 (Mike's Camera), I think priced very reasonably. I really hate the lack of clarity from edge to edge, though. Is there something I need to do that can improve this? Did anyone else notice this with the Promasters? I read that some noticed it the Hawkes. I am going to take themout this evening to look for some short-eared owls and harriers - will see what I think then.

[FrankD]

Is this the stray light thing?



Yes and no. That bit of flare is definitely one way that binoculars handle stray light. There are different issues with stray light depending on where the binocular handles it poorly. It could be in the eyepiece or an issue with the baffling around the objective lens. Folks also have a hard time explaining it and tend to use different terms for the same thing or even the same term for different things. To keep it simple it is just any reflection of light not used by the binocular in the appropriate manner. The half moons you made reference to are one manifestation of this issue.

It seems to be the one characteristic that the Hawkes and Promasters do not compete well against the Alphas.

So far the Zen Ray's seem to handle it better but it is early yet.

As for the edge softness, yes I saw it. I referred to it as "astigmatism" in the outer edge of the image and compared it with that of the Zeiss Fl's performance. You cannot refocus it like you can with field curvature. It is something you accomodate for eventually though some folks seem to always have a problem with it. The Zen Ray's display the same characteristic all be it with a larger field of view.

[Steve C]

If one looks for it, edge softness, or distortion is present in some degree in any binocular. Some of it by design in order (for one example) to prevent rolling ball effect when scanning, some there by virtue (or lack thereof) of design. About the only way I can measure/observe any edge distortion in my Promaster is with an astronomical observation. Place a focused star image in the center and move it toward the edge. That shows up some not focus able distortion in the outer 5-10% of the field. In terrestrial viewing, I don't see edge distortion without using up more effort than the task is worth. So, I would say that edge distortion is a non-issue for me. But you see what you see. Which means maybe you have a below par unit or you are sensitive to distortions and maybe other faults.

Learning about optics often leads people to learn how to discern faults, which for some, can make those faults become what they see. So, try just using the binocular for what you like about it, trying to ignore the fault. If the appearance of distortion doesn't fade, well, you may have a problem. Whatever you replace it with will have some edge distortion, and to keep a wide field and reduce distortion can be expensive.

[Kevin Purcell]

If one looks for it, edge softness, or distortion is present in some degree in any binocular. Some of it by design in order (for one example) to prevent rolling ball effect when scanning, some there by virtue (or lack thereof) of design.

Not to be too picky but ...

Distortion and aberration are two rather different things. The important difference is you can easily (completely) undo distortion but you can't (easily) undo aberration.

Distortion is introduced deliberately but reduce rolling ball effect but it doesn't change sharpness (or contrast or any other feature of the bin). It just affects the mappings of the angular distribution of the object compared to the angular distribution of the image. Or perhaps to put it more simply it maps a point in the object plane to a point in the image plane. There is a one to one relationship of points between the two planes.

This is not true of aberrations that map a point in the object plane to many points (with varying intensity) in the image plane. For example think about coma where a point (a star for instance) is mapped to something that look like a comet with the tail pointing to the edge of the field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_(optics)#Aberrations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberration_in_optical_systems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_distortion

[lulubelle]

Steve C -
Actually wasn't looking for the edge softness, it found me as soon as I put the 1st pair up to my eyes (in store pair)!! I thought maybe it was just that particular pair, but noticed it in the pair that I got from Mike's camera. I have found when I took them out this morning that I did notice less as I used them more. It seems to be more pronounced with my right eye. My Ranger SRT's absolutely do not have any edge softness,but they seem so optically poor after spending the morning looking through the Promasters!! I am much more sensitive to optical discrepancies, though, and have had it confirmed by an opthalmologist, unfortunately for me. Can be a pain at times, very frustrating!!

In taking them out again this morning, around 07:30 a.m. (later than I wanted to be out), I again noticed how incredibly bright they were and if I didn't know any better, I would think that they were stronger than 8x. The focus wheel is getting easier to work with - the wheel on my Ranger feels extremely loose after handling the Promaster for an hour!! The FOV is so very impressive, so much larger than I am used to. They are comfortable to hold and the increased weight doesn't bother me.
They are well worth the money spent!! I got the best views of a male Am. Kestrel that I have ever gotten yet!!

[FrankD]

In taking them out again this morning, around 07:30 a.m. (later than I wanted to be out), I again noticed how incredibly bright they were and if I didn't know any better, I would think that they were stronger than 8x.

My guess is that you are experiencing what you are because of the huge field of view of this particular model as well as the unique level of distortion present in this design. Both contribute to the perceived level of magnification when going from one bin to the next.

Oh, and to wet your appetite a bit, it appears, to me that the size of the sweet spot (lack of edge fuzziness for lack of a more technical term) is very, very good on the Zen Ray. Much better than I had originally thought and possibly comparable to that of the Swaro EL. It most certainly is comparable with the Meopta I have on hand.

[lulubelle]

I was reading Tero's post about his 10x Promasters & not needing to adjust the diopter much - I have to say the same so far, I have not had to play with the diopter much either. I played with it for a few minutes and it was golden. I have had problems with black half-moons on my Rangers and it just drives me completely nuts - I have not had any issues with the Promasters at all, thank goodness.

Frank, thanks so much!! Maybe Zen ED's need to visit Arlington for a little while! If I am reading your comments right, the Zen's have an edge over both the Hawkes and the Promasters in a couple of areas. Hmmmm......I feel a visit to the Zen site coming on!! Do they really wait til February to ship?

[FrankD]

Laura,

I don't think you will have to wait till February. There have been at least two other individuals not initially reviewing the binoculars that have them due in early next week. I am sure they have one or two more handy.

;)

[bcl05]

I ordered a pair of Zen ED's yesterday based largely on the insights gleaned from this site. They've already sent two email updates and don't seem to indicate that it will be much of a wait...

[FrankD]

I wonder how many they received in their initial shipment. Maybe it was just a pilot run of a few dozen to "test the proverbial water".