Nikon P6000 /KOWA 883 Prominar

[56kingbird]

Hello,

I presently use the P6000 with the Kowa 883 Prominar along with the 25 LER eyepiece, and I personally think it outperforms the P5100 color and contrast wise along with less noise //Better image sensor//though the vignetting is a little more at wider Macro Zooms than the P5100 it could be dealt with.

As for other Scopes with the Camera combo I am clueless on the adaptability.

Digiscoped images with the P6000.

www.flickr.com/mcbrian/photos

Regards Kev

[petemorris]

Is there anyone out there who has had a chance to really evaluate the performance of the P6000 compared to the P5100, preferably using the 823?

Cheers

Pete

[56kingbird]

Pete,

I am not familiar with the 823 P6000 combo so-far, as Neil stated the P5100 is more adaptable to different Scope combos I had one problem with the P5100 UR-E20 adaptor being off pitch with the Kowa TSN-DA1 28MM adaptor ring.
I always felt that being off pitch affected the sharpness of the capture.
As for the P6000 the Kowa 883 TSN-DA1 43MM adaptor ring everything falls together well ,yes there is more Vingnet at wider angles but Ican deal with it with some minor cropping also the P6000 conversion adaptor is the URE-21.

Kevin

[Dave Hawkins]

Pete,

I am not familiar with the 823 P6000 combo so-far, as Neil stated the P5100 is more adaptable to different Scope combos I had one problem with the P5100 UR-E20 adaptor being off pitch with the Kowa TSN-DA1 28MM adaptor ring.
I always felt that being off pitch affected the sharpness of the capture.
As for the P6000 the Kowa 883 TSN-DA1 43MM adaptor ring everything falls together well ,yes there is more Vingnet at wider angles but Ican deal with it with some minor cropping also the P6000 conversion adaptor is the URE-21.

Kevin

Hi Kevin
If I understand you correctly you are using the DA1 43mmm with a URE-21 and the P6000/Kowa 883+zoom.
Can I ask if the DA1 pushes over the rubber eyecup or have you removed it? Can you simply take the camera (and attached adaptors) out of your bag, push it on the eyepiece and start shooting or is there some fiddling about to do?
Roughly over what proportions of the zoom on your camera do you get unacceptable vignetting and how is this affected by increasing the mag of the scope?
Many Thanks for any help :t:
Dave

[56kingbird]

Dave the Rubber eyepiece is a thread on,which threads with the TSN-DA1 inner sleve.

Regards Kevin Bolton

[Dave Hawkins]

Dave the Rubber eyepiece is a thread on,which threads with the TSN-DA1 inner sleve.

Regards Kevin Bolton

Hi Kevin

Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I haven't understood |:S| yet but does it work like this:

Thread URE21 to camera, thread 43mm ring on to URE21, thread DA1 to 43mm ring i.e. P6000, URE21, 43mm ring and DA1 become a 'unit'
How does the camera/adaptor unit fit on the eyepiece:
Does it push on over the rubber eyecup OR over the eyecup housing with the rubber removed OR do you remove the rubber and its threaded housing and then thread OR push it on to the main eyepiece casing??

And in any event how does the camera/adaptor unit then clamp on the eyepiece?

I used to be heavily into digiscoping in the 990/995/4500 days and I must say your images are the BEST digiscoped images I have ever seen! :clap: The Purple Sand on your blog is OUTSTANDING :clap::clap:, prompting me to want to get back into the game with some new kit (already have the 883+zoom) but I sold all my 3 of my old Coolpixs and adaptors last year. The proceeds are now going into a P6000! ;)

Many thanks for your continuing help.

Dave

[56kingbird]

Dave the 43mm Adaptor ring threads on to the outer sleave of the TSN-DA1.
Also the the TSN-DA1 when coupled to the camera slides over the inner sleave of the adaptor ,which is threaded on the eyepiece, tighten the thumb screw and your ready to go?
Remember at this point the Rubber eyecup is off of the scope so no folding the rubber is needed, the eyepiece is threaded.

Regards Kevin

P.S anymore questions feel free.

[Dave Hawkins]

Dave the 43mm Adaptor ring threads on to the outer sleave of the TSN-DA1.
Also the the TSN-DA1 when coupled to the camera slides over the inner sleave of the adaptor ,which is threaded on the eyepiece, tighten the thumb screw and your ready to go?
Remember at this point the Rubber eyecup is off of the scope so no folding the rubber is needed, the eyepiece is threaded.

Regards Kevin

P.S anymore questions feel free.

Many Thanks Kevin. PM sent.

Dave

[petemorris]

With the P5100 virtually unobtainable, and my Sony W17 on death's door, I took the plunge and got a P6000. It's a shame you pay for unwanted GPS functions etc, but it does seem to be the best spec current digiscoping camera on the market.

I was almost put off as some advice suggested that the P6000 would not work well with the Kowa883+zoom due to vignetting problems.

I have just had the first chance to test the camera (literally 20mins at the local pond) and I am happy to report that it seems to work well. There is no problem with vignetting. Of course you have to zoom further along the bar to lose it (you are starting from a wider angle) but I lose vignetting at exactly the same point as I did on my Sony (i.e. around 13.7-14mm focal length on the lens which equated to 1.7x zoom on the sony and 2.3x zoom on the P6000). Here are my first efforts. The light was dull and thus not ideal but the results show promise. It is clear that quality starts to drop significantly at ISO200 as can be seen on the second Goosander shot. I have left the exif data on the attached shots in case they help, and I hope this helps anyone who is thinking of buying the camera but is worried about the vignetting issues.

I would also add that the autofocus seemed far better than with the Sony, and I achieved some great results with that, so things are looking up...

Cheers

Pete :t:

[petemorris]

I should have noted that all pictures were taken with the zoom set at 20x. As you zoom, of course the vignetting increases.

The attached shoy is pleasing as the camera was at full zoom and it's still pretty sharp. Something I really struggled to achieve with the Sony.

Pete

[Dave Hawkins]

I was almost put off as some advice suggested that the P6000 would not work well with the Kowa883+zoom due to vignetting problems.

I have just had the first chance to test the camera (literally 20mins at the local pond) and I am happy to report that it seems to work well. There is no problem with vignetting. Of course you have to zoom further along the bar to lose it (you are starting from a wider angle) but I lose vignetting at exactly the same point as I did on my Sony (i.e. around 13.7-14mm focal length on the lens which equated to 1.7x zoom on the sony and 2.3x zoom on the P6000). Here are my first efforts. The light was dull and thus not ideal but the results show promise. It is clear that quality starts to drop significantly at ISO200 as can be seen on the second Goosander shot. I have left the exif data on the attached shots in case they help, and I hope this helps anyone who is thinking of buying the camera but is worried about the vignetting issues.

I would also add that the autofocus seemed far better than with the Sony, and I achieved some great results with that, so things are looking up...

Cheers

Pete :t:

Thanks Pete, that's really useful info to have.:t:

When you get chance I am interested to know what the vignetting is like at say x30 on the scope?

Are the images straight off the camera or had you touched them up in Photoshop and did you shoot them as JPEGs or RAW?

Also how are you planning to use adaptors, if so which ones?

Thansk for any help

Cheers

Dave

[petemorris]

Thanks Pete, that's really useful info to have.:t:

When you get chance I am interested to know what the vignetting is like at say x30 on the scope?

Are the images straight off the camera or had you touched them up in Photoshop and did you shoot them as JPEGs or RAW?

Also how are you planning to use adaptors, if so which ones?


No worries Dave. At 30x, I have to zoom most of the way (to c20mm) to completely lose the vignetting.

The photos are cropped and sharpened a little, but they're not bad straight out the camera. I set the in camera sharpening to low, and shoot in JPEG. I know RAW has advantages, but I lead a busy life and do not have time!

As for adaptors, because I'm tour-leading, I need something that is quick and does not render the scope difficult to use for the clients, and therefore I use a simple tube. A friend asked me the same a day or two ago, so here's what I told him.

I have attached three pics which show my simple and quick setup. Basically, I have a tube that I bought from London Camera Exchange years ago. It was designed for the Swarovski ATS zoom. It is designed to be tightened with screws, but I find this fiddly too!

When I got the Kowa, the tube more or less fitted, and I put a bit of tape inside the tube, and some at the base of the eyepiece, so that the two attach very snugly if they are just pushed on to each other. The operation takes seconds!

I have since discovered SRB Griturn and found them extremely helpful - they helped me fit my tube that I used with the Sony, to the Nikon (basically they sent me an adapted part (equivalent of UR21) with the correct screw thread). I also found out that they make all of the tubes, including newer versions with open sections to allow you to access the zoom with the camera on the scope. They are very helpful and worth chatting to (Ian/Sarah - 01582 661878).

I also used the shutter release that slots into the flash hot shoe, also supplied by them.

Hope this helps

Pete

[petemorris]

One straight from the camera - all I've done is cut down the size to make it acceptable to upload.

Cheers

Pete:t:

[Dave Hawkins]

Hi Pete

Thanks for the images, they are very useful.

When you push the camera/adaptor assembly down on to the eyepiece, how close is the foremost camera lens casing to the eyepiece?

I am wondering if your adaptor assembly is the optimum shortest length i.e. to get as close to the eyepiece as possible (at maximum camera lens extension of course) to cut down that vignetting.

At least on the old CP990/995/4500 even 1-2mm could make a HUGE difference in the amount of vignetting at least in combo with TSN4's, APO77s and the the Swaros. The big pay back of not having to zoom in past the vignetting being not just a better composed image but in quality of image ref less shake, easier focus, faster shutter.

Thanks again for any insights.

Dave

P.S. That's hell of a collection of bird books :t:

[56kingbird]

Dave and Pete the Best Eyepiece for Digiscoping with the P6000 is the 25XLER// the 30xwide does not seem to perform well,one thing the Kowa 20/60 Zoom in good light works well with the P6000 up to about 50x with out losing light also you have to boost your optical zoom up aa bit on the camera.
Pete good captures even in the overcast the 88mm of the 883 is a light saver for faster shutter speeds.


Regards Kevin

[petemorris]

P.S. That's hell of a collection of bird books :t:

How do you know, you can only see a fraction of them!! ;)

As for the camera, the only way you could get the lens closer to the eyepiece would be with a dedicated one piece adapter that screwed on to the camera and allowed the lens to virtually touch the eyepiece. If you go down the route of using the UR21 or equivalent (i.e. the middle section in my pictures above) I do not see how you could get the lens closer to the eyepiece. At 14mm (where I lose vignetting) I would guess the lens is c1.3cm from the eyepiece. The lens is most extended at max zoom and here, I guess the lens is about 0.7cm from the eyepiece.

I understand what Kevin is saying about the 25x LER eyepiece being better, but in my job, I simply have to have the zoom, and do not have time to change lenses to take pictures.

Cheers

Pete:t:

PS The Panasonic G1 certainly looks interesting too. It is a bigger kit to carry, but the higher ISO performance would be a big advantage for moving subjects. With the P6000 it looks to me that ISO 200 is probably just acceptable, and above that, forget it if you want decent image quality.

[Dave Hawkins]

Hi Kevin and Pete and anyone else digiscoping with the P6000.

How do you find the shoot to shoot time of the P6000?

Various reviews give shoot to shoot in RAW as 6 seconds, which is s-l-o-w for a walking wader! (or even a dead one ;) )

By comparison to RAW, how do find the shoot to shoot in best quality jpeg?

Cheers again guys!

Dave

[petemorris]

Hi Kevin and Pete and anyone else digiscoping with the P6000.

How do you find the shoot to shoot time of the P6000?

Various reviews give shoot to shoot in RAW as 6 seconds, which is s-l-o-w for a walking wader! (or even a dead one ;) )

By comparison to RAW, how do find the shoot to shoot in best quality jpeg?

Cheers again guys!

Dave

Dave not had the chance to try that, but I believe the reviews that it's slow. I'm used to that though!

Cheers

Pete

[petemorris]

Tried the camera again today after my young lad found some waxwings on his way to school. Only had a couple of minutes to grab these shots at lunch time before a train flushed them. Poor light and against a white background (sky), I think the camera's done a pretty decent job.

Cheers

Pete

[tittletattler]

I have since discovered SRB Griturn and found them extremely helpful ........ I also found out that they make all of the tubes, including newer versions with open sections to allow you to access the zoom with the camera on the scope.

That is useful! I hadn't realised that there was a way around this problem. I had just accepted that once the camera was attached, it was not possible to change the zoom on the scope eyepiece.

Vignetting - Couple of points: There can't be too many ocassions when you wouldn't use most, if not all, of the optical zoom on the camera. If I zoom passed 30X with the 20-60X zoom, I notice a considerable drop in picture quality so I generally keep the zoom on the scope to between 20-25X and then use the maximum zoom on the camera (currently P4500: - P5100 bought and paid for and on its way...).

Cheers,

Andy.

[petemorris]

Vignetting - Couple of points: There can't be too many ocassions when you wouldn't use most, if not all, of the optical zoom on the camera.


To be honest Andy, the picture quality is likely to be better the lower the camera zoom and the lower the scope zoom. As either (or both) increase, any problems are magnified. I try to keep both as low as possible, but agree, I tend to get better results zooming the camera rather than the scope, which I mostly use at 20x.

Cheers

Pete

[Dave Hawkins]

Tried the camera again ....... Poor light and against a white background (sky), I think the camera's done a pretty decent job.

Cheers

Pete

Fantastic images Pete. What great metering....and focus.....you can even see detail in the white coverts as well as in the darker areas of the bird. And all this against a bright background.

[Dave Hawkins]

Vignetting - Couple of points: There can't be too many ocassions when you wouldn't use most, if not all, of the optical zoom on the camera.......

Cheers,

Andy.

There may be occasions when you need the high zoom on the camera e.g. for very distant birds but generally, the lower the mag of the eyepice and the lower the mag of the camera the better the image will be. This is mostly because of shake being magnified by the scope and then even more by the camera. It is also easier to get a good shutter speed, better focus and to follow a moving bird with lower mags.

The biggest ways to improve most digiscoping set ups is to get rid of straps, cases and dangly bits which are wind socks to vibration. The bigger and heavier the tripod head and legs the better!

Dave

[dandy]

P6000 macro.
As an aside, can anyone comment on the Macro performance of the P6000. The 4500 had an excellent macro, with manual focus being especially useful for damselflies. Does the P6000 match or improve on this?

[petemorris]

It's been a while since this thread was alive, but just to show what a good combination these two are, here's a few shots from my recent trips. If used well (i.e. a good stable set up, keep the ISO as low as possible etc), great results are possible, and on many occasions, the digiscoped shots out-perform those taken with my Canon 40d and 100-400is lens by some margin, and not just due to the extra power of the digiscoping combo.

Cheers

Pete :t:

[trco]

Wow, those are really good ones. No. 1 is my favourite.
I'm using same setup (P6000 + Kowa 883) and my latest is this Lanius collurio juv. I use 25x LER eyepice almost 99 % of time.
I have few others in Nikon Coolpix P6000 topic.

[Dave Hawkins]

It's been a while since this thread was alive, but just to show what a good combination these two are, here's a few shots from my recent trips. If used well (i.e. a good stable set up, keep the ISO as low as possible etc), great results are possible, and on many occasions, the digiscoped shots out-perform those taken with my Canon 40d and 100-400is lens by some margin, and not just due to the extra power of the digiscoping combo.

Outstanding shots Pete. I am very impressed!

Dave

[petemorris]

Bizarrely, the one (sort of) problem that I have is the camera picks up too much detail - more than the eye notices, so that you are seeing each filament of each feather and it looks unnatural! I suppose it's a good problem to have. See the attached Tawny Antpitta and the closer crop below.

Cheers

Pete

[Neil]

It's been a while since this thread was alive, but just to show what a good combination these two are, here's a few shots from my recent trips. If used well (i.e. a good stable set up, keep the ISO as low as possible etc), great results are possible, and on many occasions, the digiscoped shots out-perform those taken with my Canon 40d and 100-400is lens by some margin, and not just due to the extra power of the digiscoping combo.

Cheers

Pete :t:

Very impressive images Pete. What a wonderful range of birds.
Neil

[Robert L Jarvis]

Back to the original comment regarding adapters. My son Paul uses Kowa's swing away adapter on his 883 and it is very good albeit pricey. Have to say it looks a lot more compact on the scope than that combo in the thumbnail.