Panasonic Lumix G1 at last - what a gem for digiscoping

[Neil]

As it is my birthday soon I was able to get hold of the much anticipated Lumix G1 yesterday for the grand price of US770 with the kit lens and an 8 gig card. I went out this morning very early without having a chance to read the manual so will update with all the features later.
The good news for digiscoping is that the kit zoom (14 - 45 ) lens is internally focusing and has a 52 mm thread. My DCA adapter screwed straight in and as the camera/lens combo is light I was able to use it unsupported. Vignetting was only slight on the Swarovski 30x eyepiece ( 20 mm of ER ) and disappeared with one zoom click at 18 mm (42 mm in the old money or 1260 mm ) . Auto focus seemed to work well using the Electronic Viewfinder as well as the LCD screen as you would expect. I took this image at iso 400 as light levels were low when I started but there is still no apparent noise. I took photos down to iso 100 and all steps in-between, but I didn't try higher today. The shrike was at iso 160, flycatcher at iso 400 and the wagtail at iso 100 .
A nice feature is that when you move your eye up to the viewfinder the lcd screen cuts off automatically.
I shot some RAW images as well but haven't processed them yet. The camera does slow down when shooting RAW but you can get a short series of shots first before it needs to process which takes some time.
I got the maroon colored one which makes a change from boring black.
I was interested in the Olympus 50/2.0 Macro lens for this but no-one had stock and they didn't have the adapter either but I'm quite impressed with the kit zoom.
The old 8400 has a worthy successor.
Neil

Panasonci Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and SW 30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Lamma Island,
Hong Kong,
China.
February 2009

[Dave Hawkins]

Hi Neil

Thanks for a great initial review. I am about to take the plunge and order a P6000 and would be interested to hear if you have any thoughts or comparisons between the two cameras.

If I understand your review correctly you simply pushed the camera/lens/DCA over the eyepiece to take the images? At 580g with lens it's almost twice as heavy as the P6000, was stability an issue?

Reviews suggest it has a much faster shot to shot time than the P6000 (1 sec vs almost 6 secs in RAW) . This is v-e-r-y s-l-o-w and the main drwaback to the P6000 as far as I am concerned. maybe I should consider the G1 :h?:

Of course I don't yet know if anyone has tried the G1 with the Kowa 883 yet?

all insights gratefully recieved!

Dave

[Paul Corfield]

Nice one Neil, I look forward to more reports.

Prices are coming down in the UK (£450 with lens) so the camera is tempting but the prices of micro 4/3 adapters are too high for me to seriously consider it at the moment.

Paul.

[Neil]

Hi Neil

Thanks for a great initial review. I am about to take the plunge and order a P6000 and would be interested to hear if you have any thoughts or comparisons between the two cameras.

If I understand your review correctly you simply pushed the camera/lens/DCA over the eyepiece to take the images? At 580g with lens it's almost twice as heavy as the P6000, was stability an issue?

Reviews suggest it has a much faster shot to shot time than the P6000 (1 sec vs almost 6 secs in RAW) . This is v-e-r-y s-l-o-w and the main drwaback to the P6000 as far as I am concerned. maybe I should consider the G1 :h?:

Of course I don't yet know if anyone has tried the G1 with the Kowa 883 yet?

all insights gratefully recieved!

Dave

Dave,
The kit zoom lens on the G1 will work with most eyepieces, even some zooms . Any eyepiece adapter with a 52 mm thread will just screw into the front of the lens and the connection is strong enough so you don't need a camera support. There's no adapter on the camera. The DA Kowa adapter would be the go. I just shoot in Continuous Mode so stability wasn't much of an issue.
It's very fast compared to the P6000 and the noise handling is much better. The screen is excellent too. But it's not cheap.
Neil.

[JGobeil]

Very nice pictures Neil - extremely sharp ! Congrads on your purchase.

It looks like a serious contender for the Nikon P&S series. It will be most welcomed since those Nikons are not very well rated except for digiscoping.

The G1 is generating a lot of interest with good reason. The second generation will surely be most interesting with video added and hopefully longer lenses. Panasonic is coming along strong and may very well give Canon and Nikon a run for their money in the coming years.

[Paul Corfield]

How do you find the electronic viewfinder Neil? I read on some forums that the image freezes in the viewfinder while it writes to the card and the lag gets progressively worse on multiple shots as the buffer fills up. This could make it poor for anything but static shots.

I see Olympus are making an even smaller micro 4/3 camera, looks just like a point and shoot in the prototype (http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/olympus_micro_four_thirds_camera/) version with no viewfinder.

Paul.

[birdsgalway]

Neil
Thanks for the report looking forward to more. This Camera is very tempting considering the results you are getting. The kit lens is internal focus, does the front element rotate?

I have the 8400 and now looking for an upgrade. I tried digiscoping with DSLR with poor results to date. The match up with my 30x Nikon eyepiece and the sigma 30mm is poor.

I wonder what alternative lens are available to suit digiscoping.

Again, thanks Neil
Tom

[Cristian Mihai]

Neil
Thanks for the report looking forward to more. This Camera is very tempting considering the results you are getting. The kit lens is internal focus, does the front element rotate?

I have the 8400 and now looking for an upgrade. I tried digiscoping with DSLR with poor results to date. The match up with my 30x Nikon eyepiece and the sigma 30mm is poor.

I wonder what alternative lens are available to suit digiscoping.

Again, thanks Neil
Tom

The camera is compatible with Olympus Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6. Autofocus it works with this lens (I found this information on a romanian site). It is also compatible (with autofocus working) with Olympus Zuiko Digital 40-150 mm 4.0 - 5.6.

[Neil]

I'm still getting to grips with the way the camera works and will give more details tomorrow. I've been out all day with the camera and tried lots of things today at much longer distances than my first images. Here are a few more. The flying ducks were taken into the sun at 250 metres at iso 640 and 1/4000 second. The AF seemed to work ok.
Neil

[aostling]

Neil,

Finally! This may close the book on the interminable thread on the P5100.

I think you've stage a real coup here, being the first to post such impressive results with the G1. I'm inspired by all your posted photos, and especially by your two photos showing birds on the wing. I assume your Swarovski 80HD is too heavy to use as a hand-held telephoto, but your results have me thinking about this as a possibility with a lighter scope, such as my Pentax PF65.

[Paul Corfield]

Good work again Neil. Would like to know what you think about the mechanics of the camera, the evf lag on multiple exposures, how noisy the efv is in low light and what the evf refresh rate is like in low light. These are the main things I've read about from users reviews. No denying the image quality, looks pretty good.

Paul.

[Neil]

Good work again Neil. Would like to know what you think about the mechanics of the camera, the evf lag on multiple exposures, how noisy the efv is in low light and what the evf refresh rate is like in low light. These are the main things I've read about from users reviews. No denying the image quality, looks pretty good.

Paul.

Paul,
I've now shot about 20 gigs with it and am enjoying it. You can take 7 frames in RAW/Jpeg and then there is a longish wait for downloading to the card. In Jpeg (fine ) you can get about 20 frames at 3/fps and then it slows to 1 fps until the card is full. This is not too bad and enabled me to get some nice action shots today which I'll post soon. The EVF is better than the 8400 and I've noticed no problem with it but I haven't tried it in low light yet ( the battery runs out about 3.00 pm ). It's nice to see the histogram right there. The AF is very fast in both modes which I like.
The kit lens does a reasonable job up close and personal (less than 30 metres) but suffers a bit on the longer distances, particularly if light is not optimum. I would recommend a decent prime, like a 35 mm or 50 mm.
Neil.

[Neil]

One of the features I like about the G1 is the much faster frame rate compared to normal digicams ( 7 frames in RAW and unlimited in Jpeg (20 at 3fps and then 1fps ) ).
I was able to get a sequence of the pond heron capturing a mudskipper today . I had taken about 200 frames before I got the strike sequence.
Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80Hdscope and Sw 30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,
China.
February 2009

[Neil]

The detail from the kit zoom is quite impressive at close distance. This series was taken at about 7 metres under camouflage in a hide. Neil.
ps details as before.

[John Cantelo]

I've not yet taken the plunge and got a G1, but, for future reference, is there an SLR adapter compatible with a Leica 62mm scope?

[Claymore]

The detail from the kit zoom is quite impressive at close distance. This series was taken at about 7 metres under camouflage in a hide. Neil.
ps details as before.
Hi Neil,
Very impressed with your shots using the G1! can you tell me if it has a remote socket or IR remote?
Cheers
Brian

[56kingbird]

Neil.

Do you use manual mode or Apeture Priority mode?
Also is a support bracket nec to take stress of the Eyepiece?


One other thing in the past it was said with DSLR and Digiscoping the Auto-Focus was to much for the Scope Cmera connection, so Manual focus was the way to go does that apply with the G1.


Kevin Bolton

[Neil]

I've not yet taken the plunge and got a G1, but, for future reference, is there an SLR adapter compatible with a Leica 62mm scope?

John,
You would probably get a better response to this in the Adapter Forum
http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=307

Neil

[Robert L Jarvis]

Very interesting Neil. Does the G1 have a mounting screw hole. At the moment in Warehouse express the camera is nearly £500 so seems a mite expensive for digiscoping if one wants to keep a DSLR and long lens. Not clear on what other lense are available, any info at your end.

[Neil]

I took the G1 down to our local park to digiscope the flamingos which make nice test subjects. They were bathing and grooming near the fence in overhead shade at a distance of about 10 - 20 metres.
The AF seems to work better than any other digicam I have tested and being able to use iso 400 with no noise is a big advantage. The big , bright screen makes it easy to get the focus right with the scope too.
Neil.

[Neil]

Very interesting Neil. Does the G1 have a mounting screw hole. At the moment in Warehouse express the camera is nearly £500 so seems a mite expensive for digiscoping if one wants to keep a DSLR and long lens. Not clear on what other lense are available, any info at your end.

Robert,
There is a center tripod mount screw.
These are the lenses from Panasonic at the moment -
http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/component/zine/article/973-the-first-micro-four-thirds-lenses.html
but there will be more and you can use existing lenses with an adapter.
http://www.engadget.com/tag/micro%20four%20thirds
I'm hoping to be able to use my Leica M lenses on it.

Neil.

[Paul Corfield]

This site has a lot of adapters for mounting most types of lenses on the G1 like those from Canon, Nikon, Pentax etc. I guess at manual focus only.

http://www.sciencecenter.net/hutech/borg/parts/index.htm

Some info here also on what combination of rings are needed etc.

http://digiborg.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/adapter-for-micro-43-panasonic-g1-2/

Paul.

[Neil]

I've started processing some RAW files from the G1 after loading the software (Silkypix) that came with the camera. The first composite shows a Tiff file on the left and the adjusted CS2 file on the right (iso 400). The second shows an adjusted CS2 file on the left and then processed in Noiseware on the right (iso 500). The last image is a CS2 processed image (iso400 )
Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw 30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong,
China.
February 2009

[JGobeil]

Very nice work Neil, congrads !

[Neil]

I had to go to Panasonic today to get the adapter for the four third lenses. As this was near the typhoon shelter I popped down to digiscope the night herons that hand around there. Dull overcast conditions so was happy to be able to use the iso 400. Distance was from 15 - 20 metres. All these were taken in RAW and converted to Tiffs in Panasonics Silkypix software and then processed in CS2.
Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw 30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Causeway Bay Typhoon Shelter,
Hong Kong,
China.
February 2009

[Neil]

The first 3 images I posted in this thread were from jpegs, although I had taken Raw + Jpeg. I finally got around to processing the RAW images and here are the same three birds again. Neil.

[Neil]

I tested the Panasonic adapter today . The Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens won't Auto Focus with it. I guess I'll have to wait for Panasonic or Olympus to release a short prime for the G1. Neil.

[JGobeil]

Neil,

The last one is a work of art. Great composition, super sharp and the focus is right on.

This G1 will be tempting for the astro scope gang :t::t: Personnaly, I will wait for Version 2 and the availability of longer lenses. However, your results and the 2.0 crop factor are quite tempting...

Regards and congradulations !
Jules

[Paul Corfield]

I don't think I will ever be tempted when the adapters to get it onto an astro scope cost a couple of hundred $$$. Hopefully the other big names will bring out mirrorless cameras with standard lens mounts.

Paul.

[SteveClifton]

I tested the Panasonic adapter today . The Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens won't Auto Focus with it. I guess I'll have to wait for Panasonic or Olympus to release a short prime for the G1. Neil.

That's bad news Neil! I am interested in getting a short prime for my Olympus E-510, to try digiscoping with it, but I can only order from shops that source their stock direct from the Olympus importers in the UK, so no chance of trying one first.

Before I got the E-510, I had an E-420 with the pancake lens, but returned it within a week as I wanted the IS. I did try the pancake through my ATS80, and it did work, but with a little vignetting as I remember. The other problem was how to connect it to my DCA adapter.

I might be wrong, but doesn't the central barrel of the pancake rotate when focussing? perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me! I would be interested to know if you've tried any of the other primes such as the 50 F2 Macro. This lens is on my wish list next (for general insect photography), and it would be pure luck if it worked through the 20-60 zoom (or even the 30x wide). The only other lens I've got to work at all is the 40-150 kit lens @40mm, but the lens isn't really bright enough to get fast enough shutter speeds in the dull UK winter. Attachment to the DCA is also problematic, but probably possible with stepping rings.

I am extremely impressed by your results with the new G1, and might eventually be interested in getting one when the prices drop a little, but the compatability with my Olympus lenses (no autofocus) would put me off going down this route. Any insights you could offer about digiscoping with my E-510 would be gratefully received. I am really only interested in getting top notch results that would beat my Fuji F31fd in terms of image quality. The 50 F2 has the optical quality I'm after, but if only it would work....

Steve

[Neil]

...........I am extremely impressed by your results with the new G1, and might eventually be interested in getting one when the prices drop a little, but the compatability with my Olympus lenses (no autofocus) would put me off going down this route. Any insights you could offer about digiscoping with my E-510 would be gratefully received. I am really only interested in getting top notch results that would beat my Fuji F31fd in terms of image quality. The 50 F2 has the optical quality I'm after, but if only it would work....

Steve

I'm glad I didn't buy the Olympus 50/2.0 Macro until I'm sure that it will Auto Focus. It's also very expensive (US$550). I will want a 35 mm and/or 50 mm lens for this camera though at some point.
I use the 25/2.8 Pancake lens on the E420 , but you're right , you can't screw the DCA into it's 43 mm thread and still get AF . I set it up on my balance bar so the lens is not physically attached to the DCA. I do need Liveview though for accurate focusing in manual .
Have a look at the thread -
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=116135
Neil

[SteveClifton]

Thanks Neil, I think I'll ponder on this one for a while longer yet.

Steve

[Neil]

Here is the setup for the G1 on the Swarovski scope using the Swarovski DCA adapter.
Neil

[Adey Baker]

That set-up looks really neat and I must say I'm impressed with the lack of colour fringing in your images, Neil, especially around the black/white areas such as the wagtail. This is going to be a popular choice with digiscopers, I'd think.

[HGWBirder]

I found some nice results of the G1, but unfortunately the language is in japanese:

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2009/02/02/10111.html

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2009/02/04/10123.html

Some photos are also made with the Canon G10 and the Pentax K20D

Micha

[Neil]

Out on the mudflats today in dull, overcast light which I thought would be a good test for the G1. I shot at iso 400/800/1250 with 800 being the most common. Had some luck with Marshsands in flight when I got a series of 7 frames and there were sharp birds in 4 of them. The Yellow Wagtail cooperated and was about 15 meters but the others were around 50 - 120 meters. Neil.

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,
China.
March 2009

[davpen]

Neil, can I ask if you're getting significantly faster shutter speeds with this camera than you did with the Olympus E-420? Also, more generally, do you think micro 4/3 might be inherently more suitable for digiscoping than 4/3 proper? I tried it with the E-520 but found it way more bother than it was worth and soon rushed back to my old Fuji F30.

David

[Neil]

Neil, can I ask if you're getting significantly faster shutter speeds with this camera than you did with the Olympus E-420? Also, more generally, do you think micro 4/3 might be inherently more suitable for digiscoping than 4/3 proper? I tried it with the E-520 but found it way more bother than it was worth and soon rushed back to my old Fuji F30.

David
The speed is similar between the E420 and the G1. No noise up to iso 400 and only a little at iso800 so shutter speeds are similarly fast. The implementation of LiveView is better in the G1. The main difference is the Electronic Viewfinder. This enables Auto Focus using the viewfinder or the LCD screen. The AF is very fast too, much faster than the E420 (LiveView AF only on the LCD). It's very similar to the speed on my Nikon D90 with the 500/4 ( 730 mm in Crop Mode). I'm shooting the G1 at wide a lot which is equivalent to 840 mm.
Now the GH1 is out with HD video and with a longer kit lens.
Neil.

[davpen]

Thanks Neil. Sounds interesting but I think I'll wait and see what Olympus comes up with before going down the m4/3 road.

[Neil]

A few more from the wetlands on Monday on an overcast day. Neil.

[jimscarff]

I have in the past been frustrated in finding a digiscope setup for my otherwise superb Pentax scopes. The problem has been in part the lack of a solid adapter like those for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, etc. The Panasonic G1 seems to be a large part of the solution for me.

My experiments involved Pentax PF -80ED-A and PF-65ED-A scopes with both the 20-60mm Pentax SMC eyepiece (8-24mm) and the Pentax SMC XW14 wide-angle eyepiece.

1) The G1 using the 14-45 kit lens works well with the SMC XW14 eyepiece. From the 18-50mm range, there is no vignetting. Zoom more than that, and vignetting becomes a problem. You need to remove any filters you may have on the G1. When I first tried it, I had a UV filter on the G1. This caused the camera to be too far from the eyepiece and caused major vignetting problems. When I removed the filter, the G1 lens can rest right up against the rubber guard on the eyepiece, and vignetting problems are eliminated for about 1/2 the zoom range.

2) The G1 does NOT work well with 20-60X eyepiece. The vignetting is terrible at all focal lengths.

3) The G1 works with the SMC XW14 eyepiece because the latter has a huge diameter, approximately the same size as the G1 lens. The G1 would probably NOT work on scopes with much smaller diameter eyepieces, e.g. Nikon Fieldscopes.

4) The choice between the two models of Pentax scopes is a matter of personal preference. The 80ED lets in more light, but also significantly increases the magnification making "camera shake" much more of a problem to deal with. The 65ED lets in slightly less light, but has so much to commend it in lower price, much smaller size, and less motion to stabilize. NOTE that the 65ED comes standard with smaller diameter and lower quality XF eyepieces, which I am confident will NOT work with the G1. The XW series of eyepieces are options and are the ones you want.

5) Attaching the G1 to the telescope. The quality of any digiscoped photos is a direct function of (a) how closely aligned and square you can get the camera to the scope eyepiece, and (b) how well you are able to eliminate camera movement. Swarovski, Zeiss, and Leica have great adaptors to quickly mount and unmount a digiscoping camera to the scope. Pentax only recently released a swing-arm adapter that seems too flimsy for a camera as heavy as the G1. For testing, I simply hand-held the camera to the eyepiece. This worked far better than expected, because the rubber eyepiece rim fits nicely up against the black border around the G1 lens. A fear I usually have that the eyepiece will scratch the camera lens is dealt with beautifully -- it is nearly impossible if you are careful. I even left the lens hood on. Because I was pressing the lens up against the eyepiece rubber guard, it was easy to establish the correct distance from the scope and square the camera to the scope.

MOTION - hand-holding the camera against the eyepiece imposes undesirable motion on the whole setup, and remember in digiscoping all motion is vastly magnified compared to what the camera's IS can deal with. In an ideal world, the camera would be held there by a hands-free adapter and the shutter triggered by a remote release to minimize motion, but my world is less than ideal. (Note: in answer to a previous comment, the G1 does have a remote shutter release jack and the wired release is about $25.) My "solution" was to set the shutter on rapid fire and shoot off a burst of photos. Any motion caused by my pressing the shutter would have ended before the 2d or 3rd shot. You shoot a LOT of shots, but I find one has to do that always in digiscoping since the keeper percentage is always going to be low.

I left the camera on autofocus. I would focus on the subject in the scope with the scope focusing, then hold the G1 up to the lens and let AF work. I found it nearly impossible to use manual focus in this setup.

Here are a few samples.

a cormorant at 250+ yards (near the far shore in the center on the rock-like object): at 28mm (http://i.pbase.com/o6/96/751896/1/109898894.uEvGavHg.090305_JScarff_00516.jpg) and
digiscoped with Pentax PF-80ED-A scope (http://i.pbase.com/o6/96/751896/1/109898895.atRUh0fP.090305_JScarff_00519.jpg):

Some Willets at 28mm (http://i.pbase.com/o6/96/751896/1/109898893.yPiUI8gU.090305_JScarff_005125.jpg) and
one of those Willets digiscoped (http://i.pbase.com/o6/96/751896/1/109898773.wDe1mV7m.090305_JScarff_005122.jpg)with the Pentax PF-65-A scope:

Finally, a Spotted Sandpiper (http://i.pbase.com/o6/96/751896/1/109898772.oCS55fGC.090305_JScarff_00558.jpg) that seemed to want its picture taken:

The digiscoped photos were taken in RAW at full 12MP resolution. I then cropped them down so I was only using 40-50% of the photo (the willet as cropped was 2514x1885, the sandpiper 2167x1525). Remember that you are not going to get the same resolution from this setup as your normal shot, so you want to minimize cropping and try to fill the frame as much as possible at the time you take the shot.

The digiscoped shots needed a lot of post-processing. Out of the camera, they seemed low contrast and somewhat soft. The Pentax scopes are very sharp and high contrast; it may just be that the light is passing through a lot of layers of glass by the time it reaches the sensor.

I did my PP in Lightroom 2.3. I adjusted the black point, increased the "clarity" substantially, and cranked the sharpening up as much as it would go. The results were very encouraging IMO -- much better contrast and minimal artifacts. I then downsized the photos to 800x600 pixels for posting to the web.

I look forward to any suggestions and experiences others have.

[Derry]

Jim, cannot access your buttons to photos with the G1 and Pentax scope,,??

Derry

[Neil]

Jim,
I can't open the links either. Can you attach the photos rather than the links.
The Pentax eyepieces have a screw thread. Why not screw the lens with step up adapter onto it? Neil.

[jimscarff]

Sorry about the bad links to my samples. For what it's worth, they worked for me!

I have deleted the samples from my PC, but I had posted them to dpreview.com and you should be able to see them at this link.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=31221156

[Cactusdave]

Very nice pictures; but for the price the G1 would be the digiscoping camera of choice now I think. With new inproved versions on the horizon perhaps there will be some price drops.

[Paul Corfield]

The beauty of the Pentax scope is you have an endless supply of eyepieces to choose from. I got hold of a friends Pentax PF80EDa for a day last summer to experiment with and found that for digiscoping my Baader Hyperion eyepiece produced better results than the Pentax XW eyepiece. Your shots show similar issues with the XW that we had. I'd do like Neil said and screw the G1 lens directly onto the thread of the XW eyepiece. The Baader Hyperion's are threaded also.

Paul.

[jimscarff]

Thanks for the tip on the Baader Hyperion eyepiece. As for attaching the camera by screwing it to the eyepiece using a step-up adapter, no doubt this would give a much better attachment. The trade-off is that this approach (1) makes switching from normal scoping to digiscoping much slower, (2) increases wear and tear on the eyepiece screw threads, and (3) would seem to increase the risk of scratching either the eyepiece or the camera lens, though this increased risk may be small. To date, my priority has been on speed of switching and minimal risk of scratching anything.

As for price, I got my G1 w/ 14-45mm lens from a reputable camera dealer Canada (on eBay) for $550. The official price for new version with video, the GH1, hasn't been set yet, but word on the street is that it probably will be significantly higher. That is one drawback of the G1 compared to other digiscoping cameras - the lack of video capability.

[Derry]

Jim, guess if the video portion is important then it is a need,, have owned many P&S cameras that had the video option on board and interestingly have never used it or even attempted to,, certainly never been a buy or no buy maker for me,,

going to revisit that option and see if any interest are generated and what the quality of the video really is,, I shoot a lot of grandkids sport events with my main camera and a touch of video could be a worthy item for some of the families to have of their kids,,

thanks

Derry

[Dave Hawkins]

I was able to try the G1 up against my 883 and zoom today. The vignetting was so bad I have decided against buying one.

Dave

[Neil]

I was able to try the G1 up against my 883 and zoom today. The vignetting was so bad I have decided against buying one.

Dave

Dave,
Yes. You either need a fixed eyepiece on the scope or a fixed lens on the camera to get the best out of the G1. Neil.

[Neil]

A cloudy day and strong winds required me to use iso 800 for these images. All run through Noiseware. Neil.

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Kowa 25x LER eyepiece

Hong Kong,
China
March 2009

[Bob Thompson]

Nice shots Neil. being level with the flowers makes a big difference

Bob

[Neil]

Nice soft, late afternoon light back at the flowering trees yesterday enabled the use of iso 200 and 400 . More detail obvious without the wind. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong,
China.
March 2009

[RJM]

The middle pic would make for a very nice print to frame. Excellent composition and color. Nice work!

cheers,
Rick

[rob lee]

Excellent pics as usual Neil, this camera certainly looks the real deal for digiscoping & well worth the outlay as there seems to be an appreciable step up in quality here rather than the usual incrementle (?) improvement. Keep up the good work

[Neil]

Excellent pics as usual Neil, this camera certainly looks the real deal for digiscoping & well worth the outlay as there seems to be an appreciable step up in quality here rather than the usual incrementle (?) improvement. Keep up the good work

Rob,
For most people it still might be too early to buy into the Micro Four Thirds technology because the kit lens only works well (unvignetted) with fixed eyepieces with good eye relief ( 20 mm or more and wide FOV ). For zoom eyepieces it would perform better with a fixed lens, like the 25/2.8 Pancake. The problem with this lens is that it is not internally focusing which means you have to find another way of setting it up on the scope to get Auto Focus. I have a balance bar to do this but using the Swarovski DCA approach is so easy.
Once Olympus and Panasonic come out with my lens choices then this camera should really takeoff.
I should also mention it's a very good walking around camera in it's own right with good macro.
Neil
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7892550@N03/sets/72157613397600969/

[ostling41]

Rob,
For most people it still might be too early to buy into the Micro Four Thirds technology because the kit lens only works well (unvignetted) with fixed eyepieces with good eye relief ( 20 mm or more and wide FOV ).

Neil,

Indeed, the middle photo is unusually fine even by your high standards. I don't have an Asian bird guide, so must ask: what bird is this?

I'm tempted to wait for the HG1, if only because I so like its multi-aspect-ratio feature which was pioneered on the LX3. But for digiscoping the G1 might be the best overall value even after that new model gets in the stores.

p.s. Can you recommend the best Asian bird guide?

[Neil]

Neil,

Indeed, the middle photo is unusually fine even by your high standards. I don't have an Asian bird guide, so must ask: what bird is this?

I'm tempted to wait for the HG1, if only because I so like its multi-aspect-ratio feature which was pioneered on the LX3. But for digiscoping the G1 might be the best overall value even after that new model gets in the stores.

p.s. Can you recommend the best Asian bird guide?

My last three photos were Chinese Bulbul, Red-whiskered Bulbul and Crested Myna.
My main guide is THE BIRDS OF HONG KONG AND SOUTH CHINA - Viney,Phillipps,Lam for Hong Kong but for SE Asia
A PHOTOGRAPHIC GUIDE TO THE BIRDS OF SOUTHEAST ASIA, including the Philippines and Borneo by Morten Strange.
The lens that comes standard with the GH1 wont be suitable for digiscoping so you would have to get the 14 - 45 zoom for the G1 or a prime when they are available.
Neil

[RJM]

Birds of East Asia: China, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and Russia by Mark Brazil was just released too.

cheers,
Rick

[Paul Corfield]

Another interesting mirrorless/interchangeable lens camera coming out this year will be the Samsung NX which is similar to the G1 but with a bigger APS-C sensor. Looks like it will have a movie mode also. Samsung say they want to be the market leader in these new hybrid type cameras. The next few years should be interesting for the digiscoper.

Paul.

[Claymore]

Nice soft, late afternoon light back at the flowering trees yesterday enabled the use of iso 200 and 400 . More detail obvious without the wind. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong,
China.
March 2009
Neil those are lovely shots! I'm very impressed with the G1 and look forward to more developments in this style of camera. My main camera is a Canon 1dmk2 with gert big lenses but i tend to use my compact Panasonic more LoL mainly due to its size. Don't get me wrong the Canons awesome but I look forward to the day when its possible to buy a smaller combo with same quality of images, the way technology is going I don't think its that far away!
cheers and look forward to seeing more G1 shots
Brian
Ps does the G1 have a remote control socket?

[Dave Hawkins]

I was able to try the G1 up against my 883 and zoom today. The vignetting was so bad I have decided against buying one.

Now tried my Kowa 883 up against the x30WA via the DA10 and 52mm ring.....as on the x20-60 zoom the vignetting was terrible :C but...

the x25LER was OK! At 14mm on the lens 95% of the field of view was visible in the camera allbeit only over about 40% of the width of the screen. As you zoom up above 14mm the screen fills rapidly.

Between 18mm and 35mm the vignetting was acceptable (none at all, in the bulk of this range |=)|) but beyond 35mm and up to the max 45mmm it rapidly got unacceptable.

An issue could be the looseness of the zoom on the camera for angled scopes. It was very easy to nudge the zoom as you altered the controls on the camera. However, I easily overcame this just by being careful.

:smoke::smoke:

[Neil]

Now tried my Kowa 883 up against the x30WA via the DA10 and 52mm ring.....as on the x20-60 zoom the vignetting was terrible :C but...

the x25LER was OK! At 14mm on the lens 95% of the field of view was visible in the camera allbeit only over about 40% of the width of the screen. As you zoom up above 14mm the screen fills rapidly.

Between 18mm and 35mm the vignetting was acceptable (none at all, in the bulk of this range |=)|) but beyond 35mm and up to the max 45mmm it rapidly got unacceptable.

An issue could be the looseness of the zoom on the camera for angled scopes. It was very easy to nudge the zoom as you altered the controls on the camera. However, I easily overcame this just by being careful.

:smoke::smoke:

Dave,
Try a test without the DA10 adapter, just sliding the camera to the eyepiece on the table.
Neil.

[postcardcv]

I see that the next model is now on the way, the GH1 - http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/2129937/index.html http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC_GH1/verdict.shtml

[Neil]

I see that the next model is now on the way, the GH1 - http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/2129937/index.html http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC_GH1/verdict.shtml

This version is designed around the HD video function and the kit zoom lens is a longer length than the G1's. It won't be suitable for digiscoping . There are some bundles being offered with both lenses which would be the way to go.
Best price so far in the US is US$459 , body only.
Neil.

[John Cantelo]

One advantage of the new model is the addition of video capacity - oddly omitted from the original. Not a deal breaker for me, but enough to make me wait for this new version - just hope that it isn't too much more expensive as the current model is right at the edge of affordability for me. What, though, I'm really anxious to see is a fully capatible telephoto lens with a much longer reach. The smaller size/weight of this camera (and its partner lenses) plus its capacity to be used in digiscoping mode surely makes it an ideal choice for the birder wishing to develop an interest in photography,

[RJM]

At PIE yesterday they also showed a 45mm Macro and a 20mm F1.7 pancake (http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/HotNews/image/2009-03/27/panasonic-007-L.jpg).

cheers,
Rick

[Neil]

At PIE yesterday they also showed a 45mm Macro and a 20mm F1.7 pancake (http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/HotNews/image/2009-03/27/panasonic-007-L.jpg).

cheers,
Rick

Rick,
the 20 mm/1.7 looks interesting. The macro lenses that I've seen so far from Olympus are recessed a bit far to eliminate vignetting I suspect , but I haven't tested them yet. Neil.

[Dave Hawkins]

I made a couple of enquires over price and availability in the UK for the above.
Availability was 'early June' and price 'around £1000'

I have decided to hang on for the GH1 and see what it is like though I will be looking for a deal with the 14-45mm lens or one of the proposed prime lenses for digiscoping rather than the supplied kit lens

Dave

[Neil]

FIRMWARE UPDATE FOR THE G1

I finally got around to the G1 firmware update today. There is the camera update and a lens update (each lens has it's own update). The main feature I was looking for was to Auto Focus using the Panasonic adapter for Four Thirds lenses. I've tested it with the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake and it now Auto Focuses. It's a little noisier than the kit zoom and a little slower but it seems to do a good job and I'll test it out on the scope in the next couple of days if the rain ever stops.
Neil

[jimscarff]

[Previously in this thread (message #41) I described my experiences with digiscoping and the G1. I tried to include some photos as examples, but did not do it correctly. The illustrative photos can be seen at: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=31221156

Neal and Paul Corfield suggested it might work better if I screwed the 14-45mm lens directly to the Pentax eyepiece. This seemed like a good idea, so I ordered step-down rings.... - it doesn't work. :-(.

The Panasonic 14-45mm lens takes a 52mm filter; the Pentax SMC XW14 eyepiece needs a 43mm thread. I could not find a single step-down ring that went from 52-43, so I had to do it with two step-down rings: 52-46, then 46-43. It all attaches very solidly (with a significant risk of getting rings stuck on if you are not careful about the torque rotating the camera can apply). However, it results in really huge and horrible vignetting at all focal lengths.

So, I am back to just hand-holding the lens up against the rubber eye-protector and shooting in burst mode to minimize camera movement.

I am interested in anyone else's results.

[davpen]

Jim, there seems to be a few 52-43mm step down rings available, eg from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-MegaPlus-52mm-43mm-Adapter-Ring/dp/B00005IBVD

or eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/52mm-43mm-52-43-Step-Down-Filter-Ring-Stepping-Adapter_W0QQitemZ120392243413QQ

No guarantee that a single ring will work that much better of course.....

David

[Neil]

[Previously in this thread (message #41) I described my experiences with digiscoping and the G1. I tried to include some photos as examples, but did not do it correctly. The illustrative photos can be seen at: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=31221156

Neal and Paul Corfield suggested it might work better if I screwed the 14-45mm lens directly to the Pentax eyepiece. This seemed like a good idea, so I ordered step-down rings.... - it doesn't work. :-(.

The Panasonic 14-45mm lens takes a 52mm filter; the Pentax SMC XW14 eyepiece needs a 43mm thread. I could not find a single step-down ring that went from 52-43, so I had to do it with two step-down rings: 52-46, then 46-43. It all attaches very solidly (with a significant risk of getting rings stuck on if you are not careful about the torque rotating the camera can apply). However, it results in really huge and horrible vignetting at all focal lengths.

So, I am back to just hand-holding the lens up against the rubber eye-protector and shooting in burst mode to minimize camera movement.

I am interested in anyone else's results.

Jim,
I'm sorry you had that result with the two thicknesses of step-down rings. Could you post one of the photos of the vignetting where it's at it's best? Your eyepiece Eye Relief of 20 mm is the same as my Swaro 30x so it's just a matter of getting the right attachment method. Test by using one of the rings (hand holding ) to see what the difference is if you can get a 52 - 43 mm. Another alternative is the Televue-type adapter in the attached link. They make two for different sizes of eyepiece but it means that you can position it so the camera lens is at the right position to the eyepiece. I have replaced the metal screws with plastic ones.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7892550@N03/3329295623/in/set-72157614341197469/

Neil

[wings]

Amazing! they are all so sharp. Neil, according to dpReview.com you don't necessarily get AF on all 4/3rd lenses using an adapter since this is a "micro" 4/3rd camera with 11contact pins, but the review overall was very favorable, especially on the quick response and clarity of the 460,000 pixel articulating LCD.

What I didn't understand is that the specs says it has HDMI Output but it does not shoot HD video?

[wings]

Nice soft, late afternoon light back at the flowering trees yesterday enabled the use of iso 200 and 400 . More detail obvious without the wind. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong,
China.
March 2009
_______________
That (second shot) would be a bulbul? I am guessng because of its crest and reddish vent.

[ostling41]

_______________
That (second shot) would be a bulbul? I am guessing because of its crest and reddish vent.

See post #58.

[Neil]

Amazing! they are all so sharp. Neil, according to dpReview.com you don't necessarily get AF on all 4/3rd lenses using an adapter since this is a "micro" 4/3rd camera with 11contact pins, but the review overall was very favorable, especially on the quick response and clarity of the 460,000 pixel articulating LCD.

What I didn't understand is that the specs says it has HDMI Output but it does not shoot HD video?

My Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens didn't AF on the G1 until I updated the firmware of the camera and the lens. Now it does with the adapter , although a bit slower and noisier than the kit zoom.
I did a test yesterday with the two lenses and will post a comparison shortly. Early view is not much difference and the zoom may be better.
I guess the HDMI output was there for the future.
Neil.

[Neil]

I've posted some photos in the Gallery section digiscoped with the G1 at the Mai Po Wetlands this week. This is a typical digiscoping situation - Spring cloudy/haziness over water from 30 - 200 metres. Here are a range of distance shots all taken with the Swaro 45x eyepiece and in Auto Focus. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and DCA adapter

[Neil]

Following up to the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens on the G1 . Here is a composite photo showing a crop of photos taken with the Pancake lens and the G1 kit zoom lens at roughly the same magnification. Can you tell the difference? Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and DCA adapter
using Lumix kit zoom (14 - 45x) and the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens ( setup on a balance bar to allow for AF )

[ostling41]

Following up to the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens on the G1 . Here is a composite photo showing a crop of photos taken with the Pancake lens and the G1 kit zoom lens at roughly the same magnification. Can you tell the difference? Neil


Very similar shots, but the reduced depth-of-field in the lower photo indicates this was taken with the pancake lens.

[SteveClifton]

Just a quick question about the pancake lens Neil.

I have the zoom and 30x wide eyepieces, and would like to know how much vignetting you get with each one (and compared with the 45x, which I don't urrently have).

Thanks,
Steve

[Neil]

Very similar shots, but the reduced depth-of-field in the lower photo indicates this was taken with the pancake lens.

Well spotted Allan. Yes , the bottom photo is the Olympus lens. I will continue to use the kit zoom as I get AF when screwed into the DCA adapter and it's nice to have the zoom range. I'm still waiting for a better quality prime around 35/50 mm. Neil.

[wings]

[
The Panasonic 14-45mm lens takes a 52mm filter; the Pentax SMC XW14 eyepiece needs a 43mm thread. I could not find a single step-down ring that went from 52-43, so I had to do it with two step-down rings: 52-46, then 46-43. It all attaches very solidly (with a significant risk of getting rings stuck on if you are not careful about the torque rotating the camera can apply). However, it results in really huge and horrible vignetting at all focal lengths.
______________

According to SRB-Griturn (www.srb-griturn.com) "if you try to fit a small accessory to a large lens, you may actually cause the image to be cut off (vignetting). Stepping to a smaller size accessory with a wide angle lens is the most risky."

Check out SRB's website for Stepping rings. They have a 43mm/52mm combo (lens/Accessory) but I don't know if this is reversible.

Dennis

[wings]

The Panasonic G1 was adjudged to be the 2008 Camera of the Year in Popular Photography Magazine.

[Nando]

Hi all,

First of all sorry for my English that is not the best.

Neil, I have been reading all your post and it’s very interesting, and it seems that the G1 is quite good for digiscoping. I have some doubts about this camera and I’ll be grateful if you can answer me.

1) With the lens 14-45 if I have understood well there aren’t any vignetting with a ocular as x25 or x30 in swaro or kowa, but the speed that you get, it seems that is enough to take good photos (seeing your excellent photos) but the “f” (3.5-5.6) is quite high if you compare with lens 50mm 1.8 from canon-nikon in dslr, what do you think?
2) Another question about this lens is how working the autofocus. You have told us that works perfectly but I’ve seen the AF is external in this lens. Then when you press the button to take a photo, the G1 over the ocular move forward and back until focus well? And if the autofocus is continuous, the camera is moving continuously?
3) And the last point is about the noise that this camera makes when you take a photo. At this moment I’m using a 350D from canon and I like nothing two point, the vibration and the noise from the hit of the mirror. I hope this two point are solved with the G1 but I have read that the G1 is quite noisy when you take a photo, is that true?

Thanks a lot

Best Regards
Nando

[Neil]

Hi all,

First of all sorry for my English that is not the best.

Neil, I have been reading all your post and it’s very interesting, and it seems that the G1 is quite good for digiscoping. I have some doubts about this camera and I’ll be grateful if you can answer me.

1) With the lens 14-45 if I have understood well there aren’t any vignetting with a ocular as x25 or x30 in swaro or kowa, but the speed that you get, it seems that is enough to take good photos (seeing your excellent photos) but the “f” (3.5-5.6) is quite high if you compare with lens 50mm 1.8 from canon-nikon in dslr, what do you think?
2) Another question about this lens is how working the autofocus. You have told us that works perfectly but I’ve seen the AF is external in this lens. Then when you press the button to take a photo, the G1 over the ocular move forward and back until focus well? And if the autofocus is continuous, the camera is moving continuously?
3) And the last point is about the noise that this camera makes when you take a photo. At this moment I’m using a 350D from canon and I like nothing two point, the vibration and the noise from the hit of the mirror. I hope this two point are solved with the G1 but I have read that the G1 is quite noisy when you take a photo, is that true?

Thanks a lot

Best Regards
Nando

Nando,
There is vignetting with the kit lens - a little at wide zoom 14 mm (10%) which disappears at 16 mm and then comes back at 25 mm on an eyepiece with 20 mm of Eye Relief (eg Swaro 30x ). So in 35 mm terms this gives you a range of 32 - 50 mm unvignetted. With the long Eye Relief of the Kowa the unvignetted image is more in the centre of the range (24 -31 mm ).
The 50 mm lens would be equivalent to 100 mm on this camera and you may get more light. I haven't done an accurate test of the kit zoom lens v fixed in same conditions. Mainly because I have a completely different setup using a balance bar with the other lenses and it takes some time to set up. The quality should be better with a fixed eyepiece which is much more important than the shutter speed which is good at the higher iso.
The AF is internal to the lens so you don't have to worry. That's how I can screw the DCA adapter straight into the front filter thread of the lens. It will move when zooming though.
The Canon's are excellent for noise handling , especially the 350D. Have a look at the images here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7892550@N03/sets/72157613397600969/
Up to iso 400 no noise, at iso 800 there is some but it's easy to get out with Noiseware
The Magpie Robin and Night Heron were taken at iso 800 and I used a little Noiseware .
You don't have to use Mirror Lockup or the Self-timer very often as the vibration is minor. Just focus the scope close and let the AF do the rest.
Neil

[Nando]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for your answer. Only one thing more, is this camera quite noisy taking photos? I’m speaking about the sound that this camera makes (not the noise in the image) I ask you about it because for me it’s quite important if I buy a the G1to replace my old camera (350d), to reduce the sound that the camera making photos.

Thank you

Best Regards
Nando

[Neil]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for your answer. Only one thing more, is this camera quite noisy taking photos? I’m speaking about the sound that this camera makes (not the noise in the image) I ask you about it because for me it’s quite important if I buy a the G1to replace my old camera (350d), to reduce the sound that the camera making photos.

Thank you

Best Regards
Nando

Nando,
It is noisier than a little digicam but much quieter than my Nikon D3. It is a "dull" sound so not as easy to hear as a DSLR.
Neil.

[Nando]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for all your explanation!!!! In summary, this camera seems very very good in general and quite good for digiscoping.
I think I’m going to buy it, but I don’t know if it’s worth waiting for a decrease of price from the new GH1.

Best Regards
Fernando

[Neil]

I've just been down to Singapore for a few days and took the G1 with me. I spent some time at the Jurong Bird Park and the Botanical Gardens where there is a nesting colony of Cattle Egrets. Here are some images with the G1. Neil.

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x and DCA adapter

Jurong Bird Park,
Singapore.
April 2009

[wings]

Excellent shots.

[Neil]

The G1 comes into it's own when following feeding waders out on the mudflats. The AF is so fast it can lock on even when a Terek Sandpiper is twisting and turning as it chases small crabs around in circles. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,
April 2009

[Cactusdave]

Super shots. No sign of haze problems that you often get in long range shots. I suspect that this is close to as good as it gets with digiscoping.

[Neil]

The G1 comes into it's own when following feeding waders out on the mudflats. The AF is so fast it can lock on even when a Terek Sandpiper is twisting and turning as it chases small crabs around in circles. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,
April 2009

Dave,
This was a good distance of 25 - 30 metres. It doesn't often get this good here. Neil

[Nando]

Great photos for this distance.

Fernando

[Martin Standley]

I've just taken the plunge and bought a G1 it should arrive tomorrow.
I've only used the Nikon 8400 and P5100 before.
Could anyone give some advice on the settings that I should use for digiscoping?
Thanks in advance.

[Neil]

I've just taken the plunge and bought a G1 it should arrive tomorrow.
I've only used the Nikon 8400 and P5100 before.
Could anyone give some advice on the settings that I should use for digiscoping?
Thanks in advance.

Martin,
You will use similar settings as with the 8400.
Neil.

[Martin Standley]

Thanks Neil, I will give it a go at the wekend hopefully.

Martin,
You will use similar settings as with the 8400.
Neil.

[spyaround]

I obviously need to work on my photoshop skills.

[YellowBudgie]

Hello,

Lumix G1 owners, how do you like this camera for other types of photography? Looks like a great dual use camera vs. a camera to keep with the scope bag/case.

Thanks

[Martin Standley]

Hi neil

Just been out tonight with my new Lumix, first impresion was that it is 'ok' I think I need to get the settings adjusted.
It does not appear that you can shoot in A and macro at the same time? (as you can with the 8400).
I would be very grateful if you could list out the settings tha I should be using.
Thanks in advance.

Martin,
You will use similar settings as with the 8400.
Neil.

[Neil]

Hi neil

Just been out tonight with my new Lumix, first impresion was that it is 'ok' I think I need to get the settings adjusted.
It does not appear that you can shoot in A and macro at the same time? (as you can with the 8400).
I would be very grateful if you could list out the settings tha I should be using.
Thanks in advance.

Martin,
I haven't done a test on the Macro Mode to see if it makes a difference as you can't have Aperture and Macro at the same time. The dedicated Macro Mode is designed from max DOF ( high f stops )so maybe not suitable for digiscoping.
SETTINGS
Aperture Priority
iso 400 (I like the Shutter Speed to be around 1/500th second or more )
Continuous Shot
AFS - this is faster than AFC but I haven't tested accuracy of the two.
Film Mode STANDARD Contrast +1 Sharpening +1
Aspect Ratio 4:3
Picture Size LARGE
Quality JPEG ( switch to RAW in tricky lighting as it's slower )
Metering Mode SPOT
Stabilizer Mode 1 ( I also haven't tested this function)
Self-Timer 2 seconds

Let us know what you find, Neil.

[Neil]

The G1 comes into it's own on close up , fast paced action, like the birds coming down to water in the local park on a hot day. Switch it to iso 400 and Jpeg only and it will shoot away until the card is full to make sure you don't miss any of the action. I was varying the iso but able to get speeds up to 1/1250th second at iso400. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong Park,
Hong Kong,
China.
May 2009

[RJM]

nice job Neil. The perspective looks like you were at water level!

[Neil]

I've finally found a digiscoping use for my old Leica M lenses ( for
my M6). I picked up a Leica M to Micro Four Thirds and a Nikon to
Micro Four Thirds adapter for my Panasonic G1 today. I tested the 35
mm,50 mm and 90 mm lenses on the G1 ( camera only ) . It was too
dark when I finished so I only had a quick look at the setup on the
scope ( see photo ). It looks like the 35/1.4 will be the one to use
but the 50/2.0 could also be ok. I'll try and get out tomorrow with
it but there is rain forecast for the next week.
Does anyone have idea whether it's better to increase the scope
eyepiece magnification or the lens magnification? I'll finally be
able to get back to some decent magnifications over 2000 mm with a
top quality lens. Neil.

[RJM]

Unlike a digicam lens, a dSLR lens should have a much larger physical aperture opening than the largest exit pupil in a fieldscope eyepiece, so I would bet increasing lens focal length is the way to go.

When I still had the Nikon ED82 with the 30x, 50x, and 75x DS eyepieces, I tried to use it with a 50mm AF lens on the Nikon D90. Only the 30x came close to giving me enough light to see through the viewfinder. Still too dim for AF to work though.

have fun!
Rick

[johnno]

Hi Neil,

Absolutely Stunning Photos,Something I,m sure a lot of us would like to Achieve.

Cheers.
John

[YellowBudgie]

Hi Neil,

Great photos with your new camera/scope!

Thanks for posting on your new setup with the Panasonic Lumix G1. Only needing to buy the camera since I own the Swaro STS80HD, SW 30x and DCA is tempting.

I read the firmware update let you use a 55mm prime lens on the camera and still AF. You mentioned a zoom eyepiece/zoom lens would require a rail to adjust. Is the rail adapter you have custom made?

Is this the rail your using? (The green section I can see on the bottom)?

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1221359&postcount=20

Thanks,

[Neil]

Hi Neil,

Great photos with your new camera/scope!

Thanks for posting on your new setup with the Panasonic Lumix G1. Only needing to buy the camera since I own the Swaro STS80HD, SW 30x and DCA is tempting.

I read the firmware update let you use a 55mm prime lens on the camera and still AF. You mentioned a zoom eyepiece/zoom lens would require a rail to adjust. Is the rail adapter you have custom made?

Is this the rail your using? (The green section I can see on the bottom)?

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1221359&postcount=20

Thanks,

The Firmware update allows some primes to AF eg the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake (using the Panasonic adapter ) . Panasonic should release a 20/1.7 mm lens this year which should be good for digiscoping on zoom eyepieces.
This is a better photo of my balance bar setup. A friend makes most of my "stuff". All you need is a piece of flat steel or aluminium tube and have some 5/8th inch bolt holes drilled though it. Using the Manfrotto Sliding Plate for the camera just makes it easier to slide the camera backwards and forwards but if you cut a slot in the bar you don't need this. Neil.

[Neil]

I took the G1 out with the Leica 35/1.4 lens today. I'm using it on the balance bar as I don't have an adapter ring for the Leica thread yet. I'm quite happy with the results and will check out the 50 mm and 90 mm in the next few days.
Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 and Leica 35/1.4 M lens on Swarovski STS80HD scope and Swzoom eyepiece and homemade balance bar

Hong Kong,
China.
May 2009

ps the last photo was just camera and leica lens.

[Adey Baker]

I'll bet that Leica never dreamed their 35mm Summilux would be used for bird photography!

[YellowBudgie]

The Firmware update allows some primes to AF eg the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake (using the Panasonic adapter ) . Panasonic should release a 20/1.7 mm lens this year which should be good for digiscoping on zoom eyepieces.
This is a better photo of my balance bar setup. A friend makes most of my "stuff". All you need is a piece of flat steel or aluminium tube and have some 5/8th inch bolt holes drilled though it. Using the Manfrotto Sliding Plate for the camera just makes it easier to slide the camera backwards and forwards but if you cut a slot in the bar you don't need this. Neil.

Thanks for the photo and description. I have medical issues at the time that prevent me from using my Canon 40D and 100-400mm from the car window. (Have a bad back at the time)

Maybe sitting in the back yard and shooting the birds up in a few tall trees (Ash) would cheer me up. One huge Ash tree is dying and one very healthy.

Thanks again!

[Neil]

In order to make more use of my sharpest short lens, the Nikon 20/2.8 D , I added an old Nikon 1.6x teleconverter into the mix. Not the sharpest of teles and my Nikon 1.4x would do a slightly better job but I'll test that later. Down to the local park to test on the usual suspects. I'm impressed with the results at 15 - 35 metres in good light this morning. The lcd screen makes it easy to Manually Focus.
The range using the Swaro zoom was 1200 - 2000 on the night herons. For the flamingo dozing I bumped the zoom up to 60x or 3840 mm .
Neil.

Panasonic G1 and Swarovski STS80Hd scope and Sw zoom 20 & 30x and special balance bar
Nikon 20/2.8 D lens and Nikon 1.6x teleconverter

Hong Kong,
China.
June 2009

[Neil]

At the same time I re-tested the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens using the Panasonic adapter. Auto Focus is possible this way if the camera is supported separately from the scope on a balance bar or universal type adapter. Same equipment and subjects as the previous post.
The fire hydrant is obviously not digiscoped.Neil


Hong Kong,
China.
June 2009

[Derry]

Neil the eye & feather photo is one of the best bird photos I have seen in many a year,,

a large print of that would be spectacular,,

one of the best,,

Derry

[rob lee]

Yeah I second that, & given the magnification, that makes it even better.
Excellent shot Neil.

[Neil]

Thanks Derry and Rob. As you say the detail is pretty good and this is full frame. Digiscoping still has a part to play for closeup photography where you don't want or can't intrude into the birds comfort zone. With the new scopes and eyepieces coming out we should be able to improve the resolution captured by another 10%. I might test my Nikon D3 again on these subjects as a comparison. Neil.

[Neil]

We have bitterns migrating through at the moment and this Yellow Bittern was hanging out near the edge of the main pond at the local park. It was nice to have the speed of AF of the G1 and I was able to stand back from the others with only 300 mm and still fill the frame. Neil.

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus kit zoom lens and Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

[YellowBudgie]

Good point Neil. I'm a medical mess at the time, have never been able to walk a known good birding trail.

[Neil]

I took the G1 out onto the mudflats last week to see if there were any waders still left. I was a bit late for the incoming tide so I waiting 2 hours for the outgoing. I had never seen so much rubbish in the water which made photography even more difficult. When the waders started dropping back out to the mud to feed they were very active so I was glad to have the AF of the G1 and the Continuous Mode. It's difficult to use the P511/P6000 in these situations. The Terek Sandpipers run across the mud , twisting and turning and they mostly stop with their backs to you. The Sandpipers dart and stop , dart and stop with not much time to get AF and no time for manual focus (if you wear bi-focals as I do ). I was using the Olympus 25/2.8 Pancake lens so the AF was a little slower than the kit zoom ( which I had forgotten ) but still much faster than my other digicams.
Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 and Olympus 25/2.8 P ( Panasonic adapter ) on Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and special Balance Bar

Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,
China.
June 2009

[Neil]

There are few waders left to see here and they tend to be a long way off at the high tide roost. These photos were take with the G1 and kit zoom on Wednesday this week at a distance of about 150 - 180 metres in hazy light.
Good enough for record purposes and the AF was reliable and fast despite the haze.
Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 and kit zoom lens on Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong,
China.
June 2009

[Paul Corfield]

The new mirrorless hybrid dslr Olympus e-p1 micro 4/3 camera is getting a lot of previews at the moment. Looks disappointing though with no viewfinder of any sorts and a low res 3" lcd screen at only 230,000 dots.

Paul.

[YellowBudgie]

>Panasonic Lumix G1 and kit zoom lens on Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and >DCA adapter

Hi Neil,

Have you been using the Swaro 45x eyepiece more frequently with your Panasonic Lumix G1? Have you found one setup you like the best when not knowing what your going to shoot for distance and light conditions?

Thanks,

[Martin Standley]

I have been persevering with my G1 just lately and my results have improved (although not as much as I would like).Clearly looking at some of the shots on this thread the G1 is a good piece of kit.
I use a Kowa 823 and 32x lens.
I also have a nikon coolpix P6000.
The kittiwake, razorbill and pied wagtail were taken with the G1 and the herring gull was taken with my P6000.
It appears that myP6000 images are much sharper (which would suggest to me that the problem does not lie with the scope).
I'm not entirely certain that I have all the modes correctly set.Would anybody care to comment/provide some more information on autofocus settings etc?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Neil]

>Panasonic Lumix G1 and kit zoom lens on Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw45x eyepiece and >DCA adapter

Hi Neil,

Have you been using the Swaro 45x eyepiece more frequently with your Panasonic Lumix G1? Have you found one setup you like the best when not knowing what your going to shoot for distance and light conditions?

Thanks,

The 30x is my main eyepiece that I use with most cameras but with the G1 kit zoom it only gives me a range equivalent to around 1000 mm which is not really a digiscoping range . I will get better results with a 500/4 + D90/D3 + 1.4x . I always have the 45x with me and use it from the hides or where shooting at distance. I shoot a lot of herons/egrets ( very common here ) and so I prefer the 30x for this to leave some space around. It's not a choice based on light conditions as I can bump the iso up to 800/1600 if necessary.
I would prefer to have an AF 35mm lens with the zoom eyepiece to cover a wider range .
Neil.
Neil.

[Neil]

I have been persevering with my G1 just lately and my results have improved (although not as much as I would like).Clearly looking at some of the shots on this thread the G1 is a good piece of kit.
I use a Kowa 823 and 32x lens.
I also have a nikon coolpix P6000.
The kittiwake, razorbill and pied wagtail were taken with the G1 and the herring gull was taken with my P6000.
It appears that myP6000 images are much sharper (which would suggest to me that the problem does not lie with the scope).
I'm not entirely certain that I have all the modes correctly set.Would anybody care to comment/provide some more information on autofocus settings etc?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The kit zoom on the G1 is not sharper than the P6000 lens which gives excellent results, particularly at distance. If the subjects were all similar distance I would expect the P6000 to outperform. I still shoot both but I prefer the P6000 for distance and the G1 for moving subjects up to 30 metres.
The lighting looks harsh in the first 3 photos which has made it hard to expose for detail , whereas the last one is in overhead shade which tends to show detail better.
Were they all at similar distances?
Neil

[Martin Standley]

Hi Neil


An interesting point that you make about the light.
I had gone specifically early in the morning for what I thought would be 'good' light, however my shutter speed was only 1/125th for the 3 shots with the G1 but the herring gull was 1/320 but later in the morning when the sun had got up (albeit in the shade).
The sea birds were all taken at about the same distance (20m) and the wagtail was at about 8m.
Do you think I would benefit significantly by using another lens?
Martin



The kit zoom on the G1 is not sharper than the P6000 lens which gives excellent results, particularly at distance. If the subjects were all similar distance I would expect the P6000 to outperform. I still shoot both but I prefer the P6000 for distance and the G1 for moving subjects up to 30 metres.
The lighting looks harsh in the first 3 photos which has made it hard to expose for detail , whereas the last one is in overhead shade which tends to show detail better.
Were they all at similar distances?
Neil

[Neil]

Hi Neil


An interesting point that you make about the light.
I had gone specifically early in the morning for what I thought would be 'good' light, however my shutter speed was only 1/125th for the 3 shots with the G1 but the herring gull was 1/320 but later in the morning when the sun had got up (albeit in the shade).
The sea birds were all taken at about the same distance (20m) and the wagtail was at about 8m.
Do you think I would benefit significantly by using another lens?
Martin

Martin,
I am surprised your Shutter Speed in the sun was so low. I couldn't see your Exif info so I'm guessing that you were using a low iso and/or in P mode with the G1. Both will keep the shutter speed low.
My Default iso for the G1 is 400 , which is the highest that shows no Noise. If the bird is not movng ( eg my Yellow Bittern ) then I'm not too worried about the shutter speed, but normally bird's heads are usually moving a lot so speed is important.
Neil

[YellowBudgie]

The 30x is my main eyepiece that I use with most cameras but with the G1 kit zoom it only gives me a range equivalent to around 1000 mm which is not really a digiscoping range . I will get better results with a 500/4 + D90/D3 + 1.4x . I always have the 45x with me and use it from the hides or where shooting at distance. I shoot a lot of herons/egrets ( very common here ) and so I prefer the 30x for this to leave some space around. It's not a choice based on light conditions as I can bump the iso up to 800/1600 if necessary.
I would prefer to have an AF 35mm lens with the zoom eyepiece to cover a wider range .
Neil.
Neil.

I took a look at the demo Panasonic Lumix G1 today. I didn't feel like I was holding a "small DSLR", it was comfortable. It had a really nice solid feel to it.

See ya,

[Neil]

I was digiscoping waterlilys in the local park late yesterday when the local group of laughing thrushes came by. The waterlilys were in the sun and the thrushes were in overhead shade and moving by quickly and I had my iso at 200 and didn't have time to change it. I got about 6 frames off but this is the only one with a bird facing me. Shutter Speed was 1/100th second. I would never have got a shot with the P6000 as the AF is too slow and the 8400 would have been busy processing the first 5 frames when this bird turned around on the 6th frame.
Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 and kit zoom (17 mm ) on Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw30x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong ,
China.
June 2009

[YellowBudgie]

Hi Neil,

Last summer I used to digiscope in the back yard with the Nikon CP 8400 + Swarovski Scope. I used to setup tree branches tied to the feeder pole(s). When there was no bird activity I would digiscope the back yard flowers.

I was curious if you had a example of a digiscoped flower or insect like a bee taken with the Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski Scope.

Thanks!

[Neil]

Hi Neil,

Last summer I used to digiscope in the back yard with the Nikon CP 8400 + Swarovski Scope. I used to setup tree branches tied to the feeder pole(s). When there was no bird activity I would digiscope the back yard flowers.

I was curious if you had a example of a digiscoped flower or insect like a bee taken with the Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski Scope.

Thanks!

Yellowbudgie,
I do the same. Particularly when in the local park as I love the waterlilies and they're hard to get to with a macro lens. I've been testing some of my old telephoto lenses with the G1. The Waterlilies are with the scope though and the dragonfly lens only.
Neil

[YellowBudgie]

Yellowbudgie,
I do the same. Particularly when in the local park as I love the waterlilies and they're hard to get to with a macro lens. I've been testing some of my old telephoto lenses with the G1. The Waterlilies are with the scope though and the dragonfly lens only.
Neil

Hi Neil,

The photos of the Waterlilies have great detail. It's nice to have plenty of subjects for bonus photos if your in one spot.

That's great you can use some of your older lenses with the Lumix G1, being the brains for the lenses. The Lumix G1 may give some people the chance to buy nice 2nd hand lenses.

Thanks,

[kristoffer]

Nice pictures! Sorry for being lazy and ignorant but I have two short questions that might have been explained in this thread :)

I have the ats65hd swaro scope and 20-60x zoom eyepiece. Will this eyepiece make digiscoping harder or will it still work?

Second question, I notice you use the G1 instead of a cheaper camera like ixus. Is the difference huge and in what areas?
Thanks.

[Nogwon2003]

Hi Neil I have read with interest your posts regarding the Panasonic G1 camera. I have a Kowa 603 Angled Spotting Scope with a 30X WA eyepiece. I have been digiscoping with my old Panasonic FZ5 camera for a year or so. There is lots of vignetting, but at lowest zoom and darkest light setting I can get the record to crop into a photo. Not award winning photography by any stretch, but better than using the limit on the optical and digital zoom on the FZ5 for Bird ID.
My FZ5 came to an unfortunate demise yesterday and is not likely to recover. I have been interested in the Panasonic G1 but did not realize until today that it has digiscoping capabilities like you have demonstrated. Question, if the Kowa 30X WA eyepiece is not going to give satisfaction with the Kowa 700 and 800 mm scopes that people have tried it with, could I assume that it would also be unsatisfactory on my 600m scope for digiscoping with the G1 camera. I'm not a physicist and don't understand the optical stuff. Would the 25X LER eyepiece give satisfaction with my Kowa 603 Angled Scope and a G1 camera?

Is there any other camera that might give reasonable digiscoping results with my current Kowa scope and eyepiece?

Thanks if you can advise

Kris Andrews
British Columbia, Canada.

The kit zoom on the G1 is not sharper than the P6000 lens which gives excellent results, particularly at distance. If the subjects were all similar distance I would expect the P6000 to outperform. I still shoot both but I prefer the P6000 for distance and the G1 for moving subjects up to 30 metres.
The lighting looks harsh in the first 3 photos which has made it hard to expose for detail , whereas the last one is in overhead shade which tends to show detail better.
Were they all at similar distances?
Neil

[RJM]

Hi Kris,

The G1 + lens is really too big to hang off the Kowa 603 even you could get it to work. It will weigh more than the scope! I recommend the Panasonic FX150 + DA4 adapter option.

cheers,
Rick

[Neil]

Hi Neil I have read with interest your posts regarding the Panasonic G1 camera. I have a Kowa 603 Angled Spotting Scope with a 30X WA eyepiece. I have been digiscoping with my old Panasonic FZ5 camera for a year or so. There is lots of vignetting, but at lowest zoom and darkest light setting I can get the record to crop into a photo. Not award winning photography by any stretch, but better than using the limit on the optical and digital zoom on the FZ5 for Bird ID.
My FZ5 came to an unfortunate demise yesterday and is not likely to recover. I have been interested in the Panasonic G1 but did not realize until today that it has digiscoping capabilities like you have demonstrated. Question, if the Kowa 30X WA eyepiece is not going to give satisfaction with the Kowa 700 and 800 mm scopes that people have tried it with, could I assume that it would also be unsatisfactory on my 600m scope for digiscoping with the G1 camera. I'm not a physicist and don't understand the optical stuff. Would the 25X LER eyepiece give satisfaction with my Kowa 603 Angled Scope and a G1 camera?

Is there any other camera that might give reasonable digiscoping results with my current Kowa scope and eyepiece?

Thanks if you can advise

Kris Andrews
British Columbia, Canada.

Kris,
Almost all short zoom digicams will give good results digiscoping these days. It just depends on how you can connect them up to the scope although there are still people get good results hand holding up to the eyepiece ( just pad out the rubber eyecup with a cardboard roll until you get a snug fit with the camera lens ).
The G1 should work ok with your 30x eyepiece ( any eyepiece with good FOV and at least 18 mm of ER will be ok ), but as Rick mentioned weight could be a problem. Less with an angled scope but it should be tested out.
Otherwise the Nikon P6000 gives excellent results with good AF but best with a third party adapter giving 52 mm ( Nikon UR E21 is only 43 mm ).
Neil.

[Neil]

Nice pictures! Sorry for being lazy and ignorant but I have two short questions that might have been explained in this thread :)

I have the ats65hd swaro scope and 20-60x zoom eyepiece. Will this eyepiece make digiscoping harder or will it still work?

Second question, I notice you use the G1 instead of a cheaper camera like ixus. Is the difference huge and in what areas?
Thanks.

Kristoffer,
The G1 is an electronic DSLR so operates fast and the benefit or RAW in Continuous Mode, and high iso with no/little noise. It's Auto Focus is very fast with it's own kit lens. Unfortunately this won't work well with the 20-60 zoom without vignetting so we are all waiting for a prime lens for it. If you have an old 30 mm or longer lens it will work with the zoom eyepiece with an adapter. I have Nikon /Olympus/Leica/Hasselblad adapter but of course manual focus.
The Nikon P6000 with third party adapter (52 mm ) will work well with the zoom or P5100 or Canon A590IS if you can find one. Most short zoom digicams (35 -105 mm lens ) will work ok with the zoom eyepiece too.
Neil

[steveblain]

Hi Niel,

I'd be interested to know if the G1 and kit lens works with no vignetting on the Swaro 20x fixed eyepiece please?

Many thanks

Steve

[Neil]

Hi Niel,

I'd be interested to know if the G1 and kit lens works with no vignetting on the Swaro 20x fixed eyepiece please?

Many thanks

Steve

Steve,
With my setup the vignetting is worse with the 20x as it's Eye Relief is shorter than the other eyepieces. I'm using the DCA Zoom with the fixed eyepieces. It needs a fixed lens. I'm in Sydney at the moment and don't have the test results with me to check how bad it is though.
Neil.

[steveblain]

Steve,
With my setup the vignetting is worse with the 20x as it's Eye Relief is shorter than the other eyepieces. I'm using the DCA Zoom with the fixed eyepieces. It needs a fixed lens. I'm in Sydney at the moment and don't have the test results with me to check how bad it is though.
Neil.

Thanks, Niel.

So it would seem that you can only use the G1 and kit lens with the Swaro 30x and 45x without vignetting? Is this all the way through the kit lens zoom range? Or is there vignetting some way through?

And just to make sure, with the Swaro 20-60x zoom, you get vignetting all the way through the zoom range of the kit lens when the eyepiece is set at 20x?

I have also probably just missed this elsewhere, but is the G1 kit lens internal focus? I really wish all short range DSLR lenses were - it would make digiscoping with them SO much easier!

Best wishes

Steve

[Neil]

Thanks, Niel.

So it would seem that you can only use the G1 and kit lens with the Swaro 30x and 45x without vignetting? Is this all the way through the kit lens zoom range? Or is there vignetting some way through?

And just to make sure, with the Swaro 20-60x zoom, you get vignetting all the way through the zoom range of the kit lens when the eyepiece is set at 20x?

I have also probably just missed this elsewhere, but is the G1 kit lens internal focus? I really wish all short range DSLR lenses were - it would make digiscoping with them SO much easier!

Best wishes

Steve

Steve,
Some of this was covered in the first post of this thread. The 14 - 45 mm zoom is internally focusing so the adapter can screw straight into the filter thread. There is too much vignetting with the zoom eyepiece at all settings. With the an eyepiece of 18 + mm of Eye Relief ( SW 30 and 45x ) there is no vignetting from 16 - 25 mm using the DCA Zoom. This is not particularly high magnification on the 30x ( equivalent to 900 - 1500 mm ) so I use the 45x a lot.
Let's hope we get an internally focusing fixed lens for it.
Neil.

[rockfowl]

Steve,
Some of this was covered in the first post of this thread. The 14 - 45 mm zoom is internally focusing so the adapter can screw straight into the filter thread. There is too much vignetting with the zoom eyepiece at all settings. With the an eyepiece of 18 + mm of Eye Relief ( SW 30 and 45x ) there is no vignetting from 16 - 25 mm using the DCA Zoom. This is not particularly high magnification on the 30x ( equivalent to 900 - 1500 mm ) so I use the 45x a lot.
Let's hope we get an internally focusing fixed lens for it.
Neil.

Any idea when this is likely to happen Neil? I'm currently using a P5100 which I'm very happy with but the stats of the G1 impress me and I could see the potential is enormous should the right lens come along, hopefully compatible with the Swaro zoom.

[bughunter]

The G1 looks really promising for digiscoping and since I'm looking for a camera I have some questions:
- Since I own a DCB-A: can the G1 mounted with the kit zoom (or how long is the distance from mounting thread to the front of the lense)?
- Is the kit zoom usable with the Swaro 25-50 Wide eyepiece (the only eyepiece I own)? The data seems to be comparable to the 30 or 45 fixed eyepieces.

The G1 seems to have good prices now, because the GH1 starts. Additionally a cash back action is running by Panasonic in Germany.

[bughunter]

- Since I own a DCB-A: can the G1 mounted with the kit zoom (or how long is the distance from mounting thread to the front of the lense)?

I measuered now the DCB-A: there is a space of a litte more than 70mm. Is that enough for the G1?

[Neil]

I measuered now the DCB-A: there is a space of a litte more than 70mm. Is that enough for the G1?

From the rear of the camera to the front of the kit lens is 11 cms. From the tripod socket to the front of the kit zoom is 8 cms.
Neil.

[paul47]

The G1 just fits on the DCB - and it leaves just enough space to zoom in past the vignetting - (using the Swarovski 30x eyepiece).

Mind you, I'm not sure I'd want to use the DCB with a camera this heavy, I'm not sure it would hold the camera in place while swung up away from the eyepiece, if you were carrying the telescope around all day.

[bughunter]

Thanks for your answers. The cashback action is only for some shops so the G1 is out of my price range for now. I start now with a new and cheap A590IS and can upgrade later, may be to a GH1. The UCA will fit better I guess.

[Neil]

Thanks for your answers. The cashback action is only for some shops so the G1 is out of my price range for now. I start now with a new and cheap A590IS and can upgrade later, may be to a GH1. The UCA will fit better I guess.

I've been testing various cameras again with the new Swarovski zoom eyepiece . I've found the older Canon A640 is easier to use than the A590 . The rotatable screen helps a lot outdoors and the AF seems more accurate. A lot more keepers. The lens seems better at longer distance too for cutting through haze. I would recommend a used A640 over a new A590IS.
Neil.

[Dave McMullen]

Just curious guys,
Would this 25mm prime lens work well on the G1 for disgiscoping?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484209-REG/

And a second, unrelated question, if I were to get a G1 and try to use it with a Leica Televid 62mm scope, any ideas on the best adapter set-up?

It's been a while since I have done any digiscoping, but looking at the fine examples Neil has posted it makes me think about getting back to it.

--Dave
http://flickr.com/photos/passerine

[Neil]

Just curious guys,
Would this 25mm prime lens work well on the G1 for disgiscoping?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484209-REG/

And a second, unrelated question, if I were to get a G1 and try to use it with a Leica Televid 62mm scope, any ideas on the best adapter set-up?

It's been a while since I have done any digiscoping, but looking at the fine examples Neil has posted it makes me think about getting back to it.

--Dave
http://flickr.com/photos/passerine

Dave,
It's an excellent lens and I would love to have one. Main complaint in the comments was size and weight. This may make it a bit heavy to hang off the eyepiece. I'm not sure if it's internally focusing or not but you want to be able to AF with it so worth finding out.
It would go well on some sort of balance bar/rail with independent support for the camera.
The kit zoom is internally focusing so gives a 52 mm thread to screw onto any adapter and retain AF, the Olympus 25/2.8 P won't when connected this way ( 43 mm thread ).
Neil.

[stuartelsom]

Neil/all,

I am enquiring on behalf of a birding friend who has an old style (grey metal)Swarovski AT80 HD (straight through). He has just bought the G1 and I guess needs to know does the G1 standard lens need to be removed or does the adaptor screw into the front of the lens (52mm) and then direct to his existing eagle-eye adaptor (which from memory is 28mm) as he used to use it, say with a Coolpix 995?

I use an SRB Griturn adaptor with a Sony W210 but the G1 is more of an SLR if I have understood correctly.

Thanks in advance

S.

Dave,
It's an excellent lens and I would love to have one. Main complaint in the comments was size and weight. This may make it a bit heavy to hang off the eyepiece. I'm not sure if it's internally focusing or not but you want to be able to AF with it so worth finding out.
It would go well on some sort of balance bar/rail with independent support for the camera.
The kit zoom is internally focusing so gives a 52 mm thread to screw onto any adapter and retain AF, the Olympus 25/2.8 P won't when connected this way ( 43 mm thread ).
Neil.

[Neil]

Neil/all,

I am enquiring on behalf of a birding friend who has an old style (grey metal)Swarovski AT80 HD (straight through). He has just bought the G1 and I guess needs to know does the G1 standard lens need to be removed or does the adaptor screw into the front of the lens (52mm) and then direct to his existing eagle-eye adaptor (which from memory is 28mm) as he used to use it, say with a Coolpix 995?

I use an SRB Griturn adaptor with a Sony W210 but the G1 is more of an SLR if I have understood correctly.

Thanks in advance

S.


Stuart,
He needs to get an Eagle Eye 52 mm adapter which would screw straight into the filter thread in the front of the kit lens ( 14 - 45 mm ) . If he step ups the 28 mm to 52 mm it would increase the vignetting by adding a couple of mm distance. The kit zoom only works with the Sw 30x and 45x as the Eye Relief on the zoom is too short. You can mount the G1 with the new Swarovski UCA adatpter which gets the lens closer to the zoom eyepiece and will get some vignetting free positions but this is not ideal so a prime lens on the G1 will solve this problem (a 24/28/30/35/50 mm lens will work ).
Neil

[YellowBudgie]

Hi Neil,

Have you ever seen a 3rd party rail similar to your custom job? I used to own the Swarovski DCB but had issues with it and sold it.

I hope Dot Line comes out with a electronic remote release cable, the t shaped (plunger style) for the Panasonic G1. If anyone knows of a different brand please let me know.

Thanks!

[Neil]

Hi Neil,

Have you ever seen a 3rd party rail similar to your custom job? I used to own the Swarovski DCB but had issues with it and sold it.

I hope Dot Line comes out with a electronic remote release cable, the t shaped (plunger style) for the Panasonic G1. If anyone knows of a different brand please let me know.

Thanks!

I'm using the new Swarovski Telescope Rail and UCA adapter (universal) with the new zoom eyepiece and it's a great combo.
I have a Kowa one too but it's a bit more cumbersome and won't fit easily in a backpack so I've never used it in the field.
Neil.

[blue185jay]

Hi YellowBudgie,

Look at Feisol's web site and see if their rails will be what you want. http://www.feisol.net/release-plates-c-5.html

I have both the QP300 and the QP 400. I bought their release clamp also, since their rails are not as large as a Manfrotto release plate. I believe they are the same size as the Arca-Swiss plates. I use the QP400 for my Swarovski 80mm, while the QP300 is large enough for my Zeiss 65mm. You can measure your scope or lens to see which will fill your needs.

Regards,

Robert

Hi Neil,

Have you ever seen a 3rd party rail similar to your custom job? I used to own the Swarovski DCB but had issues with it and sold it.

I hope Dot Line comes out with a electronic remote release cable, the t shaped (plunger style) for the Panasonic G1. If anyone knows of a different brand please let me know.

Thanks!

[stuartelsom]

Many Thanks Neil,

I will pass on this message - doesn't sound like there is an easy alternative at the moment.

StuartStuart,
He needs to get an Eagle Eye 52 mm adapter which would screw straight into the filter thread in the front of the kit lens ( 14 - 45 mm ) . If he step ups the 28 mm to 52 mm it would increase the vignetting by adding a couple of mm distance. The kit zoom only works with the Sw 30x and 45x as the Eye Relief on the zoom is too short. You can mount the G1 with the new Swarovski UCA adatpter which gets the lens closer to the zoom eyepiece and will get some vignetting free positions but this is not ideal so a prime lens on the G1 will solve this problem (a 24/28/30/35/50 mm lens will work ).
Neil

[YellowBudgie]

I'm using the new Swarovski Telescope Rail and UCA adapter (universal) with the new zoom eyepiece and it's a great combo.
I have a Kowa one too but it's a bit more cumbersome and won't fit easily in a backpack so I've never used it in the field.
Neil.

Thanks Neil,

I've heard people love that new Swaro eyepiece. Thanks for the info on the Swaro balancing rail. I caught a glimpse of it in the catalog at a bird store.

I love shooting with the G1 with the kit lens, I'm looking at the "Panasonic 45-200mm f/4.0-5.6 Lumix G Vario MEGA OIS Zoom Lens for Panasonic Digital SLR Cameras" Wondering if it's worth it hand holding wise.

Thanks!

[YellowBudgie]

Hi YellowBudgie,

Look at Feisol's web site and see if their rails will be what you want. http://www.feisol.net/release-plates-c-5.html

I have both the QP300 and the QP 400. I bought their release clamp also, since their rails are not as large as a Manfrotto release plate. I believe they are the same size as the Arca-Swiss plates. I use the QP400 for my Swarovski 80mm, while the QP300 is large enough for my Zeiss 65mm. You can measure your scope or lens to see which will fill your needs.

Regards,

Robert

Thanks Robert,

I'll check the web site out. Thanks for the advice on the arca swiss mount advice. I think I have a arca swiss mount someplace but made for my Canon 40D. I have a few arca swiss adapters to change the manfrotto adapter to AS. It got too expensive so I stopped. Buying their mounts sounds like a good idea.

Thanks again!!!

[Engbert]

Niel
I enjoyed your note about the Lumix G1, and got mine a few days ago.

However, you mention the kit lens being internally focussing. The length of the lens changes as you focus, so it is not internally focussing.

I have been trying to use it with a Kowa 881, and so far have not found it easy. I was hoping to be able to replace my d300 and 500mm vr.

Best wishes

Engbert

[Neil]

Niel
I enjoyed your note about the Lumix G1, and got mine a few days ago.

However, you mention the kit lens being internally focussing. The length of the lens changes as you focus, so it is not internally focussing.

I have been trying to use it with a Kowa 881, and so far have not found it easy. I was hoping to be able to replace my d300 and 500mm vr.

Best wishes

Engbert

Engbert,
The kit zoom 14 -45 mm internally focuses but externally zooms. You can use the Swarovski DCA-type adapter screwed into the front of the lens. This is the only lens that I've seen that does. I would be interested to hear about others that behave this way.
Neil

[Engbert]

Neil
I agree with you - I realised after I posted that it is internally focussing. one of my problems using the angled scope is that the weight of the camera causes zoom creep - it pushes the barrel in so that it is no longer zoomed to 45mm. I will have to make up some kind of plastic gizmo to click on to the barrel to stop this. I am also going to try using a TSN-PZ nstead of the eyepiece and camera lens.

Some the best examples from this are from Joseph Kennedy
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/116054264
His site show hundreds like this.
Best wishes, Engbert

[RJM]

The TSN-PZ is a cool adapter. BUT just remember that you will have to rely on manual focus. This is no easy task, especially if you are not close enough for the bird to fill the frame or it moving ziz-zag. Many times I'd shoot several hundred pics only find on close inspection I was ever so slightly out of focus. Keeper level was only 1:10 on average!

I then briefly tried using the TSN-VA3 photo adapter (essentialy a 14x eyepiece with 60mm eyerelief!) with a AF 50mm lens. This worked much better with keeper level up to 8:10. Only "problem" is total focal length was only 700mm, same as I could get with a 500mm VR lens and 1.4x TC. Why lug the digiscoping kit around when I could just hand hold a camera + lens.

As for using a dslr on an angled scope, you really need to rotate the prism housing to horizontal. It is a little strange at first, but you will find this easier to work with. You should get a "Y" bar to support the camera though, and not put all the pressure on the lens and its mount.

BTW, I see you are from Central TX. I am a San Antonio native myself. Living in Japan for the last 20yrs though. If you need a good deal on the PZ or VA3, let me know.

cheers,
Rick

[Neil]

Neil
I agree with you - I realised after I posted that it is internally focussing. one of my problems using the angled scope is that the weight of the camera causes zoom creep - it pushes the barrel in so that it is no longer zoomed to 45mm. I will have to make up some kind of plastic gizmo to click on to the barrel to stop this. I am also going to try using a TSN-PZ nstead of the eyepiece and camera lens.

Some the best examples from this are from Joseph Kennedy
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/116054264
His site show hundreds like this.
Best wishes, Engbert

Engbert,
You could roll up a piece of cardboard as a temporary fix. I normally use the G1 lens in the same position all the time so one piece of cardboard should be ok, otherwise make up two or three.
Neil.

[bughunter]

Panasonic has released the next variant after the G1 and GH1: the GF1
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/
Since is has no rotatable display the normal variants are more suitable for digiscoping.

New are also two lenses: a 20mm F1.7 pancake and a 45 F2.8 Macro:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090203panasonic20mm.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090202panasonic45mmmacro.asp
Can a Macro be used with a Swaro 25-50 zoom or macro are not usable with eyepieces?
As far as I know the 20mm would be a 35 eq of 40mm on a G1, so it's a bit short for digiscoping?

[Neil]

Panasonic has released the next variant after the G1 and GH1: the GF1
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/
Since is has no rotatable display the normal variants are more suitable for digiscoping.

New are also two lenses: a 20mm F1.7 pancake and a 45 F2.8 Macro:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090203panasonic20mm.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090202panasonic45mmmacro.asp
Can a Macro be used with a Swaro 25-50 zoom or macro are not usable with eyepieces?
As far as I know the 20mm would be a 35 eq of 40mm on a G1, so it's a bit short for digiscoping?

This is very good news . The macro lenses are normally recessed which makes them a more difficult digiscoping choice. A fixed eyepiece might fit into the lens a little which might be ok but I haven't tried this.
The 20 mm should be ok and would well with a zoom but it is a bit short on it's own.
I would be interested in both lenses.
Neil

[Martin Standley]

I've been giving the G1 another try just lately and I have to say that my results have improved a little.
I took about 270 shots at the weekend, it seems to me as though it has great potential and I,m happy with these shots.
the only thing that worries me is the number of duff shots relative to the keepers.
These shots were taken in almost ideal conditions with the birds only about 10m away yet 90% of my shots were deleted.
As I had the camera on trial it didn't matter but I would have been disappointed if something special had come along and I'd have missed it.
Incidentally when the battery ran out I switched over to my trusty 8400 and the ratio of keepers to rejects went up significantly.
As far as I'm aware the settings are all as they should be but when the subject appeared in focus the result proved otherwise.

If anyone has any comment It would be appreciated.

For anyone interested there are more shots on my blog.

[Neil]

I've been giving the G1 another try just lately and I have to say that my results have improved a little.
I took about 270 shots at the weekend, it seems to me as though it has great potential and I,m happy with these shots.
the only thing that worries me is the number of duff shots relative to the keepers.
These shots were taken in almost ideal conditions with the birds only about 10m away yet 90% of my shots were deleted.
As I had the camera on trial it didn't matter but I would have been disappointed if something special had come along and I'd have missed it.
Incidentally when the battery ran out I switched over to my trusty 8400 and the ratio of keepers to rejects went up significantly.
As far as I'm aware the settings are all as they should be but when the subject appeared in focus the result proved otherwise.

If anyone has any comment It would be appreciated.

For anyone interested there are more shots on my blog.

Martin,
These are nice but I'm surprised that your number of keepers is so low. My experience has been that I can get 50 % keepers with the 8400 and 80% with the G1. The main reason is that the G1 screen is much better than the 8400 so easier to see when scope is in focus. I you are using Manual Focus then the number of keepers will be much lower and 10% wouldn't surprise me.
Could you post one of the unsatisfactory ones and let us know what lens you are using.
Neil

[Martin Standley]

[QUOTE=Neil;1576224]Martin,
The main reason is that the G1 screen is much better than the 8400 so easier to see when scope is in focus.

My thoughts exactly.The images appear pin sharp on the screen but disappointingly out of focus when brought up on the pc.
I've attached what was probably the most disappointing shot -the dunlin swam across a small pool about 7m away.I would be 100% confident in my 8400 nailing this.
Data for the shot below.
F.stop 5.6
Exposure 1/800
ISO 400
Exp -1.3
Focal lenngth 14mm
Metering-centre weighted average
Aperture priority
contrast- hard
Aperture priority
White balance - auto.
The lens was the kit lens for the G1 through a 32x kowa lens.

Any help much appreciated.

[RJM]

At 7m and at an effective focal length of 900mm, your DoF was way too small...<1cm. You could have shot this at F12 or smaller for perhaps better results but even then the DoF only expands to ~1.5cm at 7m distance. -1.3 seems like alot of exposure compensation too with ISO400 and 1/800sec, so you certainly had room to "play" here.

Manual control of both shutter speed AND aperture with AutoISO tends to work better for moving targets I think. But trying to digiscope a target that gets under 15m is really hard. I keep a second camera handy (Canon SX1) just for these opportunities. You can also use the Kowa TSN-PZ photo adapter instead of an eyepiece and lens but then you will have to 100% manual focus.
cheers,
Rick

[Neil]

[QUOTE=Neil;1576224]Martin,
The main reason is that the G1 screen is much better than the 8400 so easier to see when scope is in focus.

My thoughts exactly.The images appear pin sharp on the screen but disappointingly out of focus when brought up on the pc.
I've attached what was probably the most disappointing shot -the dunlin swam across a small pool about 7m away.I would be 100% confident in my 8400 nailing this.
Data for the shot below.
F.stop 5.6
Exposure 1/800
ISO 400
Exp -1.3
Focal lenngth 14mm
Metering-centre weighted average
Aperture priority
contrast- hard
Aperture priority
White balance - auto.
The lens was the kit lens for the G1 through a 32x kowa lens.

Any help much appreciated.

Martin,
I can understand at 7 metres you would be expecting the best shot possible. I had a close look at it and came up with this adjustment. I can see what you mean.
I think what you've got here is the difference between the ED glass in the 8400 ,which does an excellent job in dull lighting conditions, the non ED glass in the G1 zoom, which needs better light to be it's best.
This is the main reason that I'm still looking for a better quality lens for the G1. I'm thinking now of the Panasonic Leica 45/2.8 Macro for this reason.
Just a couple of observations. I was surprised to see your -1.3 adjustment as in that grey light I would have thought none would be necessary. Is this photo a jpeg straight out of the camera . Also at 14 mm ( wide open ) I would have expected your Aperture to be wider which would have given you much faster shutter speeds to help freeze the action. I think the head movement at 1/400th may have been an issue.
Your lucky to have a dunlin at 7 metres. We had one here last week at 100 metres.
Neil.

[RJM]

Neil, I think it clearly is DoF issue. Just look at the water. Only a narrow strip is close to focus while both fore- and backgrounds are blurred. The bird's eye/beak and tail feathers are relatively sharp while the fatter body/wing is softer. Not even sure a digicam would get it right this close at a 900mm focal length, but they do have fewer DoF "issues" than a DSLR.

Cheers,
Rick

[Martin Standley]

Thanks for your advice guys.
On the day I took the shot it was one of those days when one minute it is bright sun then the next a cloud has passed over- just goes to show the importance of adapting to suit the conditions.
Interesting points also about depth of field-something I will look at more closely.
As a rule of thumb I would probably be better off using my 8400 in dull light conditions.
Thanks again I will keep trying.

[Neil]

Neil, I think it clearly is DoF issue. Just look at the water. Only a narrow strip is close to focus while both fore- and backgrounds are blurred. The bird's eye/beak and tail feathers are relatively sharp while the fatter body/wing is softer. Not even sure a digicam would get it right this close at a 900mm focal length, but they do have fewer DoF "issues" than a DSLR.

Cheers,
Rick

Good point Rick. If you look carefully at my Marsh Sandpiper photo you will see that the back is sharp but the head is a bit soft which is a DOF issue.
Neil

[bughunter]

There is a new mount adapter from Novoflex for Micro Four Thirds, but it provides 'only' a mechanical connection:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09091101novoflex.asp

[uvw]

The first trial of my G1.
STS80HD + Long balance plate + DCA + G1.

To me, the result is quite OK. o:)
I expect further reduction on the vibration of the camera body will give better result.

BTW, the reach is just too short for the kit lens in consider with the vignetting.
I will keep my 8400 for long reach. :king:

[roger48]

I have just bought a G1 with the kit lens and I am very pleased with it. Although I did not buy it specifically for digiscoping, I would like to try it with my diascope 82 with either the 20x60 zoom or the 30x fixed eyepiece.

Has anybody out there tried this combination?

[Neil]

The first trial of my G1.
STS80HD + Long balance plate + DCA + G1.

To me, the result is quite OK. o:)
I expect further reduction on the vibration of the camera body will give better result.

BTW, the reach is just too short for the kit lens in consider with the vignetting.
I will keep my 8400 for long reach. :king:

These are great images. Well done.

[Neil]

I have just bought a G1 with the kit lens and I am very pleased with it. Although I did not buy it specifically for digiscoping, I would like to try it with my diascope 82 with either the 20x60 zoom or the 30x fixed eyepiece.

Has anybody out there tried this combination?

Should work ok with the 30x eyepiece but the Eye Relief of the zoom is too short.
Neil.

[Neil]

Tested my new Olympus 50/2.0 Macro lens on the G1 today. It wouldn't AF on the G1 but would on the Olympus E-420. I upgraded the firmware of the G1 but still no AF. As it turns out the lens extension when in AF Mode ( on the E-420 ) is long ( about 1.5 inches ) so too much for the UCA, even when turned around.
I used the Liveview screen and the ELV to focus with reasonable results as long as the subject stayed reasonably still as the magnification was out at 2500 mm.
I had to run the Telescope Rail to full extension too for balance.
Here are some images from today.
Neil

Panasonic G1 and Olympus 50/2 Macro lens and Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw25-50x zoom eyepiece and UCA adapter and Telescope Rail.

Hong Kong,
China.
Sept 2009

[puppymic]

Tested my new Olympus 50/2.0 Macro lens on the G1

Hi Neil

I am also using STS-80 HD & 30x eyepiece, please could you suggest which
M4/3 prime len could have the auto-focus function when using with GH1? or which len is the best choice.

I do not think the kit len (14-45mm) is good enough for digiscoping, thanks

Mandy

[Neil]

Hi Neil

I am also using STS-80 HD & 30x eyepiece, please could you suggest which
M4/3 prime len could have the auto-focus function when using with GH1? or which len is the best choice.

I do not think the kit len (14-45mm) is good enough for digiscoping, thanks

Mandy

Mandy,
The new Panasonic 20/1.7 Pancake lens looks like the one to go for.
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_20_1p7_o20/
Neil

[rockfowl]

Mandy,
The new Panasonic 20/1.7 Pancake lens looks like the one to go for.
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_20_1p7_o20/
Neil

£345.00 it seems.

[Neil]

Back out to the wetlands yesterday with the G1. Had to go to vertical mode with the Olympus 50/2 on the Swarovski 20x. Any more magnification and I wouldn't be able to control it. I used the DCA screwed into the front of the lens for the first time so balance was more difficult. Lucky I have the Telescope Rail to help balance it.
Neil

Panasonic G1 plus Olympus 50/2 Macro and Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw20x eyepiece , DCA and Telescope Rail

Hong Kong,
China.
Oct 2009

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7892550@N03/?saved=1

[trco]

Neil, what do you think about Olympus 35mm macro lens? Will f/3.5 be to high for digiscoping?

[Neil]

Neil, what do you think about Olympus 35mm macro lens? Will f/3.5 be to high for digiscoping?


It could be a problem. I'm having light issues with the 50/2 . If it's not as sharp as the 50/2 ( I haven't seen any reviews ) then you might be better off with the Olympus 25/2.8P or the Panasonic 20/1.7.
Neil

[davpen]

Neil, what do you think about Olympus 35mm macro lens? Will f/3.5 be to high for digiscoping?

Hi. I tried the 35mm macro with my E520 and Kowa 823 and found it impossible as a digiscoping lens. The front element is too far receded into the body so using autofocus you just end up with a pic of the eyepiece (and that's if you're lucky). I also tried manual but it was extremely fiddly and even at best produced overwhelming vignetting.

David

[trco]

Neil and davpen, thank you for the answers. I was thinking about Panasonic 20/1.7 and Olympus pancake too, but I do get very low focal lenghts with my Kowa 25x LER:
1260 with zuiko pancake
1010 with panasonic pancake

Something in the range of 35-40 mm will be ideal - maybe pentax 40mm pancake or new Pana/Leica 45mm macro (expensive at the moment)

[roger48]

I have just taken delivery of the 20mm Panasonic Pancake lens for the G1 and have attached it to my Zeiss Diascope 85 using the Zeiss adapter. It works! It seems to work with both the 20x60 zoom and the 30x fixed eyepieces. On the zoom, there is some vignetting at the 20x end, but it disappears at about 35x. One small point, you will need to leave off any filter or the vignetting increases.

One real advantage of the wide 1.7 aperture, is that the image on the camera screen is really bright. This looks like a great set up, but I will continue to use the Sony W300 with a slip on adapter when weight is a real issue.

Now for some pictures.

[jourdaj]

Roger,

I'm curious. If you hand-hold the 20mm Panasonic pancake lens and G1 to the 20-60X eyepiece are you able to reduce the vignetting any further? I'm eyeing the new GF1 and 20mm for my Zeiss 85... Thanks!

[roger48]

Jerry,

The answer is no. But, the vignetting at 20x is low anyway and just cuts of the corners. I would say that the loss to vignetting at 20x is about 20% of the picture, maybe less.

Also, with the G1 and, I assume, with the GF1, you can change the aspect ratio of the picture from 4 to 3 (normal TV), 3 to 2 (35mm film) and 16 to 9 (widescreen TV) and this does make a difference. I think that 3 to 2 works best at 20x and I would estimate the vignetting loss at about 10%.

A small bit of cropping would eliminate it anyway. I will probably use the zoom most of the time, simply because of the extra versatility.

Hand held on the fixed 30x shows no vignetting.

I would recommend that you try the camera with your own scope and check out the different picture aspect ratios. You will love the bright view on the screen using this lens which makes it much easier to use than a small aperture zoom lens on the camera.

Roger

[roger48]

Jerry,

To get an idea of the amount of vignetting at 20x look at the picture of the P6000 at 1x from your review on your blog. The vignetting with the 20mm Pancake is probably half the amount of the P6000. Hope that helps a bit.

Roger

[bughunter]

I'm eyeing the new GF1 and 20mm for my Zeiss 85... Thanks!
Jerry, just for interest: why the GF1 and not the G1/GH1 ?
I think the main disadvantage of the GF1 are:
- no eyefinder, which is helpful in bright sunlight
- fixed display (not rotateable)
I think both are digiscoping freindly fetaures.
The GF1 285gr, the GH1 385gr and the G1 380gr (bodies only). And yes, the GF1 is a bit smaller and has video (but not as good as the GH1).

[trco]

Jerry, just for interest: why the GF1 and not the G1/GH1 ?
I think the main disadvantage of the GF1 are:
- no eyefinder, which is helpful in bright sunlight
- fixed display (not rotateable)
I think both are digiscoping freindly fetaures.
The GF1 285gr, the GH1 385gr and the G1 380gr (bodies only). And yes, the GF1 is a bit smaller and has video (but not as good as the GH1).

I was thinking exactly like this when I was deciding between GF1 and G1 (GH1 is too expensive beacuse of the lens - and it is very hard to get body only). In the end I decided for G1 - articulated screen rules for digiscoping out of the car with angled scope :t:

[roger48]

I agree about the screen. Having it articulated is a major plus, and especially so when digiscoping with an angled scope as I do. I did not buy my G1 specifically for digiscoping, but it looks as though it will be good, particularly with the Pancake lens.

[Neil]

Yesterday I took my new ( old design ) Balance Bar back out to the wetlands (see first photo ). It enables me to not only support the scope and camera but also to try out different eyepieces.
I started out using the Panasonic kit zoom (14 - 45 mm ) and it was nice to have the AF. Then I switched to the Olympus 50/2.0 macro as I wanted to go out over 30 metres.
Neil.

Panasonic G1 plus Panasonic 14-45 mm zoom and Swarovski STS80HD scope and 45x eyepiece, DCA adapter and special Balance Bar.
also Olympus 50/2.0 and Sw 20x eyepiece and DCA adapter

Hong Kong,
China.
October 2009

[bughunter]

DpReview released a review of the (expensive) new Panasonic 45 Macro lens for G1 family:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_45_2p8_o20/
Seems to be promising for digiscoping, since it do not change the length during focusing and do not rotate the front thread.

[trco]

Finally may T2 to m4/3 adapter arrived. I bought it on ebay for 25 EUR :)
Adapter goes between Kowa TSN-PZ DSLR zoom adapter and my Panasonic G1.
No autofocus unfortunately, but a gain magnification between 1200 and 2000 mm with 2x crop senzor in G1.

In past I tried combinations with Kowa TSN-PZ and some of the DSLRs (Canon 40d, Nikon d90 and Nikon d300), but they can't compete with little G1 - No mirror slaping and waiting for mirror lockup in this one :t:

I think this combination have big potential.

Just one sample from today - overcast weather so ISO 400 was necessary.

[Neil]

Finally may T2 to m4/3 adapter arrived. I bought it on ebay for 25 EUR :)
Adapter goes between Kowa TSN-PZ DSLR zoom adapter and my Panasonic G1.
No autofocus unfortunately, but a gain magnification between 1200 and 2000 mm with 2x crop senzor in G1.

In past I tried combinations with Kowa TSN-PZ and some of the DSLRs (Canon 40d, Nikon d90 and Nikon d300), but they can't compete with little G1 - No mirror slaping and waiting for mirror lockup in this one :t:

I think this combination have big potential.

Just one sample from today - overcast weather so ISO 400 was necessary.

You should be happy with this one. Very nice.

[jourdaj]

Roger, Bughunter, TRCO,
Thanks for the replies - much appreciated. As for GF1 vs. G1 and GH1 you've kinda answered the questions. G1 doesn't have video and GH1 is a bit too expensive for digiscoping (I'm cheap and will stick w/ the Coolpix P6000). As for the non-rotatable screen on the GF1, its not a problem since I use a jeweler's loop as an eyepiece that velcros onto the back of the camera when sunlight/glare is an issue. The smaller size of the GF1 will also put less strain on the angled scope. I'm also thinking of it as a camera for the wife (hoping that I'll be able to make use of it for digiscoping). Assumes that I can create an adaptor to connect it and the 20mm/1.7 lens to the 20-60X zoom eyepiece of the Zeiss.

Roger - I appreciate your checking the vignetting issue. A little vignetting is good in my book - makes sure the camera/eyepiece distance is proper and centered.

Best!

[LeoJJ]

Hello,

I am Leo and since two years I have much fun with digiscoping.
Nowedays I use the Lumix G1 with standard kit lens on a Zeiss Diascope 85 with fixed 30x ocular and I am very satisfied with this equipment.

This is my first post and with that I wnt to ask about the new pancake that Panasonic sels, the H-H020 G 1,7 ASPH 20mm. I am interested in this lens in spite of the fact that I become fairly good results with the standard kit lens 14-45 that I use. But I haven been told that this pancake is even better.
I read a post from Roger that this lens works well in combination of the Diascope with 30x ocular. I mean, that combination shows no vignetting.

Now I know that the standard kit lens has a totaly internal focusing system. The front of the lens is not turning when focusing en the front does not move in and out when focusing.
This I think is a great advantage of this lens with that fairly good and quick focusing system.

My question now is, does the pancake focus exactly the same as the kit lens. Is the front of the pancake staionar or does it move when focusing?

I hope someone can make it clear to me, thanks in advance.

Leo

[Neil]

Hello,

I am Leo and since two years I have much fun with digiscoping.
Nowedays I use the Lumix G1 with standard kit lens on a Zeiss Diascope 85 with fixed 30x ocular and I am very satisfied with this equipment.

This is my first post and with that I wnt to ask about the new pancake that Panasonic sels, the H-H020 G 1,7 ASPH 20mm. I am interested in this lens in spite of the fact that I become fairly good results with the standard kit lens 14-45 that I use. But I haven been told that this pancake is even better.
I read a post from Roger that this lens works well in combination of the Diascope with 30x ocular. I mean, that combination shows no vignetting.

Now I know that the standard kit lens has a totaly internal focusing system. The front of the lens is not turning when focusing en the front does not move in and out when focusing.
This I think is a great advantage of this lens with that fairly good and quick focusing system.

My question now is, does the pancake focus exactly the same as the kit lens. Is the front of the pancake staionar or does it move when focusing?

I hope someone can make it clear to me, thanks in advance.

Leo


Leo,
Have a look at this thread on the GF1
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=155381

It should answer your question.

Neil

[LeoJJ]

Thank you very much Neil,

I read:
The G1 came with a kit zoom 14-45 mm which is good for digiscoping as it's internally focusing. The 20/1.7 P lens is not internally focusing but the camera is light enough that this doesn't seem to matter (it may in the long tern though ). The 20/1.7P has vignetting issues with the zoom eyepiece up until 40x and after that is ok and of course will be ok with the fixed 30x.

If I am right I conclude that the pancake's front, include the screwthread, does not turn when focusing, bus does move in en out a bit when focusing.

That movement, must I think of 1 of 2 millimeters, or is that movement more?

Have you an idee how far the pancake can be held before the frontglass of the 30x Zeiss oculair before vignetting comes in, would there be space enough to make a construction by which the camera with lens is fitted stationar and the lens can freely focusing without touching the ocular?
(I hoop I made myzelf clear enough?)

I attached an example of one of my G1 / Zeiss Diascope 85 30x foto's.

[LeoJJ]

I learned on dpreview.com that this 20 mm lens moves in and out up to 3 mm when focusing.
Remains my question how far this pancake can be held before the glass of the Zeiss 30x ocular before vignetting occurs.
I hope that distance would be far enough to make a construction by which scoop and camera can by mounted without the need to move. to slide, when focusing?

Gegroet
Leo

[Neil]

I learned on dpreview.com that this 20 mm lens moves in and out up to 3 mm when focusing.
Remains my question how far this pancake can be held before the glass of the Zeiss 30x ocular before vignetting occurs.
I hope that distance would be far enough to make a construction by which scoop and camera can by mounted without the need to move. to slide, when focusing?

Gegroet
Leo

Leo,
Yes , the movement is very small, only a few mms. I haven't tried the lens on the G1 yet but this movement is no problem on the GF1 using the Swarovski DCA adapter.
Neil

[roger48]

I have just received the new 45mm Leica Macro Elamarit for my G1. What a beautiful lens. Gives macro at 1:1 and with a 2.8 max aperture it is nice and bright. Will be great fun.

Out of interest, I handheld it in front of my Zeiss 85 scope with the 20x60 zoom eyepiece to see what it is like for digiscoping. Looks perfect. No vignetting seen when handheld at 20x and very little when increasing the zoom.

When mounted on the Zeiss QCA there is no vignetting at all. The G1 screen is lovely and bright because of the 2.8 aperture. Should be a cracker in the field and I will post some pictures ASAP.

[bughunter]

Thank you very much! I had also some hope for this lens. I'm lucky so far with the P6000, but if I have a G1 in my hands I always start to dream. I like the rotateable screen, the EVF, the AF speed, the 2.8pics/sec ...
Yesterday I captured a very funny video of a green finch handling some fruits of a tree in his pecker. The situation doesn't come out in the pics, so I started a video. Now I would prefer the GH1 due to HD video (and the GF1 miss too much of the Digiscoping features). Hopefully there will be a kit of GH1 with this 45 F2.8 Macro, because here in Germany it is only available with the high priced super zoom, also not as body only.
So if I have to buy the GH1 with the superzoom, the 45F2.8 lens, spare battery, remote shutter ... I have to spend around 2000€ :C Little bit too much for my budget. And I need also a new adapter, because it will not fit on the DCB-A.

[roger48]

I am sympathetic! I have no real interest in video so the GH1 suits me well. If I want a video I could use my little Sony W300 to take one. For birds, I am much happier with still pictures.

[roger48]

Sorry, meant the G1 suits me very well. If there was a 400mm prime to go with the G1 then I would have the perfect system for me.

[bughunter]

Yes, mainly still pictures for me too. Video is a nice add on usable in special situations. The G1 is available much cheaper now (since the GH1 and GF1 are out).

[roger48]

Bughunter,
Go on, go for the G1, you know it makes sense.

[Neil]

I have just received the new 45mm Leica Macro Elamarit for my G1. What a beautiful lens. Gives macro at 1:1 and with a 2.8 max aperture it is nice and bright. Will be great fun.

Out of interest, I handheld it in front of my Zeiss 85 scope with the 20x60 zoom eyepiece to see what it is like for digiscoping. Looks perfect. No vignetting seen when handheld at 20x and very little when increasing the zoom.

When mounted on the Zeiss QCA there is no vignetting at all. The G1 screen is lovely and bright because of the 2.8 aperture. Should be a cracker in the field and I will post some pictures ASAP.

It should be a great lens and I'm looking forward to seeing how it behaves on a scope.

[coymartin]

Neil, I have enjoyed the results you are getting with the G1. Will the SW DCA fit all of it's eyepieces and which eyepiece would you recommend for all around use coupled with the G1, Thanks Coy

[Neil]

Neil, I have enjoyed the results you are getting with the G1. Will the SW DCA fit all of it's eyepieces and which eyepiece would you recommend for all around use coupled with the G1, Thanks Coy

Coy,
It depends which lens you have for the G1. With the fixed camera lenses any eyepiece will do. With the zoom lenses then only the fixed eyepieces will work well without much vignetting. I suggest the 30x. The DCA will work with all of the eyepieces (current models). For waders though I use the 45x with the kit zoom (14 - 45 mm ).

Neil

[bughunter]

I have just received the new 45mm Leica Macro Elamarit for my G1. What a beautiful lens. Gives macro at 1:1 and with a 2.8 max aperture it is nice and bright. Will be great fun.

Question is also flexibility. With this lens and the Swaro 25-50 zoom I will get focal length range between 2250 and 4500mm. I'm not sure, if the lower end is enough. Compared to the P6000 using the green macro zone and eyepiece at 25 the range starts around 1000, which I use sometimes. So the pancake is needed additonally, where I don't like the external focusing.

Anyway, your pics will be interesting!

[coymartin]

Neil, Thanks for your reply on the SW DCA. I have been looking at the lumix 20mm pancake lens coupled with the G1 and using the 20x60 zoom. Have you had experience with this lens? The filter threading seems to be 46mm with no coresponding DCA adapter ring. Will a stepup up ring diminish the quality of the resulting image? Thanks, Coy

[Neil]

Neil, Thanks for your reply on the SW DCA. I have been looking at the lumix 20mm pancake lens coupled with the G1 and using the 20x60 zoom. Have you had experience with this lens? The filter threading seems to be 46mm with no coresponding DCA adapter ring. Will a stepup up ring diminish the quality of the resulting image? Thanks, Coy

Coy,
I have stepped down to 43 mm which is one of the DCA options. There is more vignetting with the 20- 60 zoom but it disappears at 50x and 60x. This is not too much magnification for this lens ( around 2000 mm ).
Neil.

[coymartin]

Neil, I have ordered the G1 to go with my 80mm hd SW scope. Will the camera and 14-45 kit lens be able to be supported by the DCA or would you recommend some sort of rail system? If so , is something available commerically or would you build something yourself? Thanks for your replies, Coy

[Neil]

Neil, I have ordered the G1 to go with my 80mm hd SW scope. Will the camera and 14-45 kit lens be able to be supported by the DCA or would you recommend some sort of rail system? If so , is something available commerically or would you build something yourself? Thanks for your replies, Coy

Coy,
The DCA does a good job of support as the kit lens is very light and internally focusing. For other lenses though I do use a "special" balance bar
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=154928&highlight=balance+bar
Neil

[bughunter]

This morning I found the Macro 45 F2.8 freshly arrived in a store here. I was going immediatly with my scope backpack to the city ;) I was able to try shortly the new lens with a GH1. I think it is a nice lens, but the resulting focal length seems to be too much for my Swaro (ATS80HD with 25-50 eyepiece).
I wasn't able to mount the GH1 with the lens on my DCB-A since it is 4 or 5mm too long, so I had to hand hold it - hard with that focal length. There was no vignetting at 25 or 50 setting of the eyepiece. The focus is hunting sometimes (long movement inside?). Now I know there is a switch for limiting the focus range, but I haven't tried.

The attached pics are from a emergency exit on the other side of the store.
The first pic was with zoom at 50, ISO 200, exposure 1sec (sorry, not sharp due to handhold). To reach a shorter time the salesman switched to ISO 1600, it needs 1/50s exposure, and the zoom was reduced to 25. The pic looks still dark. AF seems to work ok.
The last pic was taken with the P6000 (ISO100, 70mm, 1/15s; can't remember the zoom setting :C )

Sorry, I wasn't able to test more and longer, but I want to share even this limited results. May be roger48 will post pictures from outside soon. I think now, that this focal length is a little bit too much for the 80mm Swaro, a 35mm would be great.

[Tanager]

Hi all,

Been following this thread with great interest.

Doesn't the G1 represent the ideal photo/digiscoping kit. Digiscope with the kit lens and regular photography when coupled with an Olympus 70-300mm, via an adapter (giving upto 600mm reach)- accepting that you can never have enough reach. The Olympus lens had quite a favourable review recently in one of the UK camera magazines that ran a comparison of telephoto zooms. I am also assuming that the image quality of the G1+70-300mm would be better than one of the current crop of superzoom bridge cameras, especially when you take into account that alot of photos would be taken at maximum zoom.

Wouldn't this make a good set up for travelling as well, being light and fairly compact?

Or am I missing something fundamental?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Alll the best,

Mark

[bughunter]

There is a new mount adapter from Novoflex for Micro Four Thirds, but it provides 'only' a mechanical connection:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09091101novoflex.asp

A reply to my own message: Today I visited a optical fair here, all the well known companies are there. On the Novoflex booth the showed me a G1 with adapter and how easy you can manual focus and preview the DOF on screen. Looks great. He told me buy a G1, our adapter and go down one stair to the second hand shop - you will find all the lenses you need very cheap.
According to him they cannot produce enough adapters at the moment because of the high demand. They really help to sell the G-series and even Panasonic has confirmed this.

[Neil]

Hi all,

Been following this thread with great interest.

Doesn't the G1 represent the ideal photo/digiscoping kit. Digiscope with the kit lens and regular photography when coupled with an Olympus 70-300mm, via an adapter (giving upto 600mm reach)- accepting that you can never have enough reach. The Olympus lens had quite a favourable review recently in one of the UK camera magazines that ran a comparison of telephoto zooms. I am also assuming that the image quality of the G1+70-300mm would be better than one of the current crop of superzoom bridge cameras, especially when you take into account that alot of photos would be taken at maximum zoom.

Wouldn't this make a good set up for travelling as well, being light and fairly compact?

Or am I missing something fundamental?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Alll the best,

Mark

Mark,
In theory you are right but in practice one body doesn't solve all our problems.
Today I was digiscoping a Wilson's Plover with the G1 when an Osprey flew around my head and dived into the water about 20 metres from me. I had my D3 + 300/4 on my shoulder and I was able to get 11 frames off . These grab shots are often the best images I get on a trip, particularly of raptors. You can't do this with one body. Secondly you will need a wider lens as well when travelling as the Micro Four Thirds system 2x crop will defeat your 70-300 as a landscape/record lens.
Neil.