Allen vs Rufous ID

[jml2665]

Hi all, was told over in the ID forum that I should try and post this question here for all the experts, so please help me out if you can

Southern California Hummingbirds, February 2009
All, can you please help with my internal debate. Rufous or Allen?

These have been here all winter (not sure you can really call it "winter" in SoCal) I know the first two are male, and the last two are female. Just want to get a positive ID as I've heard so many stories that the Rufous should not be in SoCal during this time frame. All were taken within the past two days here in Downey CA but I have seen these two year round for several years now.

Thanks
Jim

[humminbird]

The female would be almost impossible without seeing the tail spread or having the bird in hand.

The male, that first photo seems to show a rather broad R-5, but again, a photo with the tail spread and a look at the back would help. That broad R-5 would indicate Rufous, if it is broad and not emarginate.

[jml2665]

Not sure this will help, it was taken last year, same bird or at least a cousin of the bird from this years photos

Thanks

[humminbird]

The bird in the last photo is clearly an Allen's. but I would not be too sure the birds above are Allen's. Unless you have a band or other distinguishing mark that you know no other bird of that same species has anywhere in the world, there is no way you can be sure you are looking at the same bird. These species are in the same genus and share many of the same traits.