What am I doing wrong?

[Gentoo]

When I shoot with my prime, I can usually get the settings right so I get a good exposure. However, when I shoot with my 70-200 2.8 VR, I always get blown highlights. I have screwed with settings all over but this lens does not like bright areas it seems. I use this lens for both people and birds and the same things happens. Even when I set the exp. comp. all the way to -1.0 it still blows the highlights.

Where am I going wrong?

[Duke Leto]

post an example with the exif data so we can see, what mode are you shooting in?

[Gentoo]

post an example with the exif data so we can see, what mode are you shooting in?I'll go look for a few. I delete most of them but I know I still have some. I've shot manual in the past but now in aperture priority.

[Gentoo]

Duh, I forgot I already have picture from December with this lens. I also found some recent ones. While I don't expect perfect exposures in white areas, I don't seem to have such an issue with my prime or other lenses I've used.

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/94813569

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/110848837

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/110853946

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/106895764

[Duke Leto]

Shonn, apart from using cloudy white balance on what looks like sunny days I'd say that you just need to compensate more for the highlights being blown out, I sometimes have to go to a stop and a half under exposed to retain detail in the whites when shooting on bright days, try and bracket next time at say .3 stop intervals from correctly metered to say 1.6 under exposed and check out the results.
They all look nice shots. I'm sure its not the lens just the situation.
The other thing worth trying is to use spot metering when strongly back lit / side lit not matrix, I have one of my front function buttons programmed to spot metering so I can access it instantly.
Let us know how you get on.

[Gentoo]

Steve, you always have sound advice. I will try this next time I shoot. I tried exposure comp. -1.0 but was afraid to go lower. I will next time as well as spot metering which I haven't used much. Is spot metering good even if the bird (or other subject) takes up have the frame?

[Duke Leto]

its not so straight forward, if I shot a bird that is relatively neutral with its background in flat lighting then Matrix metering would be great, if the bird is say a gull against a darker background such as grass I would probably spot or center meter depending on the size of the bird in the frame but if the lighting was harsh that would change, I guess I always try and meter for the highlights, recovering shadow detail is easier than blown highlights, if yiou activate the front function button on the D300 to spot you can easily check when you frame the subject.
Thinking about it if the conditions are difficult I would probably always spot meter off the subject after all that is the main part of the image.
I'm sure that the photographers on BF that I aspire too would offer further and probably better advice.

[fugl]

As Duke Leto says, blown highlights are one of the big problems with digital photography, particularly nature photography where the subject matter generally fails to completely fill the frame allowing the background to "fool" the metering, the problem being compounded in bird photography by the blindingly high-contrast "black & white" plumage of many species. The root of the problem is that the human eye/brain combination handles high contrast subject matter much better than photographic media, whether silver-based (in the old days Kodachrome slides were a real bear in this respect) or digital. If you shoot in raw, blown highlights are recoverable to a limited extent but, in general, the only real solution is to follow the old film photography mantra "expose for the highlights, develop (i.e., 'post process' in digital-speak) for the shadows". This, of course, introduces grain/noise in the shadows & mid-tones, but much better that than blown highlights which as far as I'm concerned, ruin a photo.

For bird photography, I use a D70 with 300mm prime. It's always set on spot metering which, in cases of high-contrast subject matter, I use in conjunction with the "hold exposure" button on the back. The exposure sequence then runs: spot-meter the highlights (or just off the highlights to open up the lens a bit but still without over-exposing)--recompose (refocusing if necessary) while depressing the "hold exposure" button--shoot. Alternatively, if lighting conditions are reasonably constant & I've worked out the exposure, I'll switch over to manual for absolutely consistent results.

But, none of this answers your original question with regard to the apparent tendency of your zoom to over-expose. I guess it could have something to do with the lens itelf, e.g. a defective diaphragm not stopping down properly(?). Otherwise it's hard to account for except in terms of metering technique/subject matter. Do you tend to include more background in shots with the zoom than with the prime or use it with more contrasty subject matter?

[ikw101]

If you're in a high contrast situation normally you should have time to take a few test photo's first. Review the photo's and check the histogram. This will enable you to check whether or not the whites are blown out. If they are adjust the exposure or dial in a bit of compensation.

[Gentoo]

I use the zoom in much the same way as the prime as far as how I fill the frame. Metering is something I've never completely understood. I was always told to use matrix if I didn't know. Would spot be better than center weighted? When would I use center weighted metering? Thing is, I use that zoom in places where the birds are close and the 300mm of the prime is just too much, but I love that lens.

I know that blown highlights are a real downer for photos and I hate them. I can deal if they're just slightly blown but the way they are blowing now is just too much and makes the photos harsh.

[Duke Leto]

As I said earlier, you have to experiment, there is no right or wrong time to use stuff, I use the 70-200vr and its a cracking lens never had any more or less problems with it than any other lens. As others have suggested, bracket, check the histogram or the highlights on the camera screen and as fugl said try exposing for the highlights.
Attached are some shots tken recently where it was imperative to expose for the highlights, its a fav spot of mine and at sunrise the light is harsh but I think the results are nice, most of these were taken at either 1.5 - 2 stops under exposed or metered off the subject (reflective swans).
On the kingfisher that little spot of white on the back of the neck is a real pain to get right in strong light
Keep experimenting

[Astrokev]

Metering is something I've never completely understood. I was always told to use matrix if I didn't know. Would spot be better than center weighted? When would I use center weighted metering?

Forgive me Gentoo, but why do you use something as advanced as a D300 if you don't understand metering?! ;)

[Duke Leto]

Shonn, have you had any luck with bracketing or spot metering yet?

[mikfoz]

Forgive me Gentoo, but why do you use something as advanced as a D300 if you don't understand metering?! ;)

How is this reply even remotely helpful?

[mikfoz]

I'm afraid that, As Leto says, a lot of it is just down to trial and experience. If in doubt, bracket. On a moving subject that's problematic.

Pattern/matrix/whatever your camera calls it metering is your camera's attempt to find a meaningful compromise to the histogram across the photo by comparing several areas. This is great for landscapes aqnd suchlike but is not foolproof. Spot metering is great if you have the knack of metering for the right area of the frame them realigning but if you're rubbish at doing that it's often worse than useless. Centre weighted is a less precise way of doing this and allows some leeway if you accidentally hit a shadow/highlight on your subject.

All metering options can be screwed up by wrong operator choices and it takes years of practice to get it right all the time. We all mess up for exposure. Another option is to shoot RAW so you have slightly more options available to post-process losslessly.

By and large I tend to meter spot on the subject then lock as there is usually crippling backlight or a shady background when photographing birds.

I honestly can't see how it can be the lens - unless the camera and lens aren't talking to each other accurately. If you're always slightly over with that lens then use your exposure bias to correct. It's time to get out of the comfort zone of fully auto and into the realms of AV/TV modes.

[Astrokev]

How is this reply even remotely helpful?

Sorry Gentoo, no offence meant. I was just a bit surprised with your comment considering you have a camera that is quite advanced. To get the best out of the camera, I would've thought a reasonable understanding of how it calculates exposure was a pre-requisite.

Please don't take my comment too seriously.

As Mikfoz says, I would also advocate trial and experience. One method worth trying is to experiment with different exposure settings in a controlled environment. Try setting up your camera on a tripod and image the same scene (preferably one with a challenging brightness/contrast range) using different exposure settings. Plan this before you launch in and then view and compare the results. This may help you understand which works best in different conditions.

Although it requires a bit of planning and discipline, I think this controlled (dare I say scientific) approach is much better than trying shots of birds in real-life situations, where lighting and composition are constantly changing.

Hope this helps.
Kevin

[Gentoo]

I'm afraid that, As Leto says, a lot of it is just down to trial and experience. If in doubt, bracket. On a moving subject that's problematic.

Pattern/matrix/whatever your camera calls it metering is your camera's attempt to find a meaningful compromise to the histogram across the photo by comparing several areas. This is great for landscapes aqnd suchlike but is not foolproof. Spot metering is great if you have the knack of metering for the right area of the frame them realigning but if you're rubbish at doing that it's often worse than useless. Centre weighted is a less precise way of doing this and allows some leeway if you accidentally hit a shadow/highlight on your subject.

All metering options can be screwed up by wrong operator choices and it takes years of practice to get it right all the time. We all mess up for exposure. Another option is to shoot RAW so you have slightly more options available to post-process losslessly.

By and large I tend to meter spot on the subject then lock as there is usually crippling backlight or a shady background when photographing birds.

I honestly can't see how it can be the lens - unless the camera and lens aren't talking to each other accurately. If you're always slightly over with that lens then use your exposure bias to correct. It's time to get out of the comfort zone of fully auto and into the realms of AV/TV modes.

First let me say, I have never shot in fully auto. I used to use manual but now prefer aperture priority. I have learned a lot from using a D300 and look forward to learning more. However I know I will only do that with practice and advice. I do shoot RAW now and agree with having more control in PP.