Eyglasses and binoculars

[Tero]

I wear eyeglasses only art of the time, and rarely with binoculars. But I was curious with what people have done with those screw in pieces that are supposed to help with glasses users. In my Minolta pair, they are useless, as the field of view is really small with glasses. SO I take the glases off and screw the eye pieces all the way out. But as these are x25 binoculars, it seems like the all the way out position cuts down on your field off view. So I screw them back in, and now I get the full view without glasses.

Are these devices ever correct under any use? Seems like I could do without them. In 8x40 or 8x50 sizes, as I have tried at a store, they seem to work better.

I can see some day needing these, so I want them to work both ways!

[marcus]

They do work good with 8x40s. Even with my 8x32, screwing the cups in makes the image better. And it's a lot easier than having to take glasses off every time the binoculars are used.

[Tero]

Oops, meant to say
So I screw them HALF WAY back in, and now I get the full view without glasses.

It seems that the bigger the (binocular) pupil the better glasses work.

[Steve-O]

Hey there Tero!

You are doing the right thing, screw the caps until you get a full view, that's why there usually are stops on the screw caps - so you know where to set them.

What you are dealing with is called "eye relief", that is the distance you have to be behind the eyepiece to be in focus and get a full view. This is related to the size of the exit pupil, the bigger the exit pupil the more eye relief you get. It's easier to get long eye relief (> 15cm) with larger lenses, so it makes sense that you had better luck with the 8x40s than the 8x25s.

While I do not need glasses for close work, my distance vision is failing, so I wear my binnocs with the caps screwed in....in case I need to see something quickly, and remove the glasses and screw out the caps if I have time.

Eye relief is also what you adjust on a new rifle, you adjust the scope so that it gives a good view when you get the rifle to your shoulder. Make sense?

Hope this helps,

Steve-O

[Tero]

Thanks. Rifles are another world. I would not really even approach that subject, as I am left eyed and right handed!

[bineshii]

Hi Tero,
I am also left eyed and right handed! I shoot bows and rifles left handed, and pistols I hold right handed. I have a right handed Winchester Model 70 with a Leupold Vari-X III 1.75-6x - an excellent scope worth every penny. The eye relief is perfect on it- I want to find the equivalent in a bino.
Stu

[Tero]

We all manage, Stu! ;)

[Swissboy]

What you are dealing with is called "eye relief", that is the distance you have to be behind the eyepiece to be in focus and get a full view. This is related to the size of the exit pupil, the bigger the exit pupil the more eye relief you get. It's easier to get long eye relief (> 15cm) with larger lenses, so it makes sense that you had better luck with the 8x40s than the 8x25s.
Steve-O

Steve-O, you are not correct with your saying that eye relief is related to the exit pupil. These two are independent. As for the "15cm", it should be 15mm if you are taking about binoculars. May be cms for rifle scopes, I don't know.

[seawatcher]

There is another problem which those who wear glasses have that hasn't been mentioned either by the manufacturers or by other birders (as far as I am aware). Some eyecups are rather slippery, such that it can be difficult to centre the binocs in relation to your eyes without them sliding to one side. This can make viewing with glasses difficult. Personally have worn glasses for over 35 years, and prefer to shove my glasses up when viewing through binoculars. Although the view (image) is considerably better using my glasses and the binocs, I just hate when they start to slide. It's not a major problem now, but what to do when my eyesight is so bad that I can't correct for the difference in both eyes withn the diopter ring. Anyone else know what i mean here? Or is it just me? Any other glasses wearers with any opinions as to what makes have the least slippy eyecups?

[Den]

There is another problem which those who wear glasses have that hasn't been mentioned either by the manufacturers or by other birders (as far as I am aware). Some eyecups are rather slippery, such that it can be difficult to centre the binocs in relation to your eyes without them sliding to one side. This can make viewing with glasses difficult. Personally have worn glasses for over 35 years, and prefer to shove my glasses up when viewing through binoculars. Although the view (image) is considerably better using my glasses and the binocs, I just hate when they start to slide. It's not a major problem now, but what to do when my eyesight is so bad that I can't correct for the difference in both eyes withn the diopter ring. Anyone else know what i mean here? Or is it just me? Any other glasses wearers with any opinions as to what makes have the least slippy eyecups?

I use Nikon HG's while wearing spectacles. I don't get any eyepiece slippage on the spec lenses. Much better than my previous Leicas (better eye relief and sharper too).

[Pinewood]

I have, according to my optician, "serious myopia," I need a -7 for my left eye, which also suffers from stigmatism. I have one modern, and one old binocular for birding, which adjusts to accomodate my [lack of] sight. The Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 allows me to focus on infinity without my specs. I find it a real pleasure to see a full view with the eye cups up, that I often do not fret about the uncorrected stigmatism. Now I push my specs up past my forehead, when I use the Dialyt. This may not be the most elegant arrangement, but it works.

I do not think that the latest Zeiss models have so much diopter correction available, while Nikon and Leica seem to be short of the old Zeiss's diopter adjustment.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[mak]

I do not think that the latest Zeiss models have so much diopter correction available, while Nikon and Leica seem to be short of the old Zeiss's diopter adjustment.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur


Arthur.

According to their brochures the;

The dioptre adjustment on the FL's is +/- 4 D. The adjustment on the 7x42 Classic is +/- 3.5 D

The Ultravid's are +/- 4 D

EL +/- 3 D

All above are 42mm versions

mak.

[Rich N]

Arthur.

According to their brochures the;

The dioptre adjustment on the FL's is +/- 4 D. The adjustment on the 7x42 Classic is +/- 3.5 D

The Ultravid's are +/- 4 D

EL +/- 3 D

All above are 42mm versions

mak.

The Zeiss FLs will go 7 D past infinity, not counting the
difference between one side and the other. This lets someone very near sighted, like me, to use the FL without my glasses.

Rich

[snowyowl]

This is an interesting thread. I've worn glasses since childhood. I find that my B&L Elites give me the sharpest view when I have the eye cups screwed all the way out. I do loose a bit of FoV but the improved image makes it worth the small loss. I started doing it than way when I read a comment somewhere (possibly on the Birding Canada web site) that a B&L user had learned that he got the best view if he held his binos slightly away from his eye glasses. Adjusting the eye cups seems to do the same for me.
I can only use my compact Bushnell 8x25's with the eye cups folded all the way back, which I don't like, it just isn't comfortable, or if I don't do the fold back then I must remove my glasses. Result is that I almost never use the binos.
As far as binos slipping, it's not an issue for me. I try not to press against the eye glasses, for one thing it tends to spread the frames.
I can't imagin how anyone can use binos by routinely removing their glasses. Isn't it much too slow?
I have an older set of Jason binos (now bought out by Bushnell) that were designed to be used by eye glass wearers. They don't have cups just a flat end. They worked really well for me but had become rather battered over time, hence the upgrage to the Elites..

[Tero]

I tried some Swift roof prisms, 8x (35-40). They were actually much better than my Nikon Sporters with glasses. I do see with mine, but a more limited FOV than without glasses. They cost about the same, $350 and claim to be waterproof.

[salty]

i wear glasses for driving, but tend to use them for birding also - usually spot things better with them on. i must admit, using my leica 10x42bn's with glasses does tend to effect the feild of view! often find myself viewing without my glasses just to get the wider field of view, but then it means i cant spot birds at a distance when im not looking through the binos... confused/fustrated at times!

[Pinewood]

I can't imagin how anyone can use binos by routinely removing their glasses. Isn't it much too slow?
..

Dear Snowyowl,

When I scan a lake for waterfowl, it is no problem, and that is a great pleasure.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewoood

[Pinewood]

Arthur.

According to their brochures the;

The dioptre adjustment on the FL's is +/- 4 D. The adjustment on the 7x42 Classic is +/- 3.5 D

The Ultravid's are +/- 4 D

EL +/- 3 D

All above are 42mm versions

mak.

Mak,

My Zeiss Classic Dialyt 7x42 goes past -7, with the center wheel. I think the dioptre adjustment on the right eye is +/- 3.5 dioptres compared to the left eye.

The 8x32 BN, and the Nikon 8x32 SE do not quite meet the needs of my left eye. I have yet to test other binoculars against the starry sky. The Nikon is good for me, out to 30+ meters.

Happy birdwatching,
Arthur Pinewood

[Squonk]

I can't imagin how anyone can use binos by routinely removing their glasses. Isn't it much too slow?

No, it's definitely feasible. I need specs to see birds but I don't like to have them between me and my bins. Try using one hand (in my case, my left hand) to lift your specs up onto your forehead at the same time that you are bringing your bins up with other hand. Once the bins are up you can hold them with both hands, and they will stop the specs from falling back down. As you take the bins away, again use your left hand to bring the specs back down. Sometimes e.g. when trying to get on a passerine in a tree, you may find you have one hand on your specs and the other on your bins for a prolonged period of time, so that you can rapidly switch between the two - sometimes hovering halfway between them while you rely on your naked eyes to see which way the bird is going to go.

Occasionally I'll not bother removing the specs when I raise the bins, usually just when I want to confirm the ID of a bird I'm not particularly interested in - unless my ID is wrong.

Disadvantages - first, a little bit of pulling on my ears and forehead, not too uncomfortable, but probably shortening the life of the spectacle frames. Second, it's difficult to do this when wearing a tight-fitting hat such as a baseball cap, as there's no room for the specs on your forehead.

[Rich N]

Dear Snowyowl,

When I scan a lake for waterfowl, it is no problem, and that is a great pleasure.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewoood

With the right binocular people wearing glasses can scan a lake for waterfowl, no problem. But, no it won't be better than sxx with my crazy girl friend after college.

Rich

[snowyowl]

I'm in the habit of using my binos with glasses on so i think I'll just stick to that way. I am definitely a creature of habit and it sounds too much trouble to change. ;)

[Bill Atwood]

I wear glasses. I HATE them. However, I can't wear contacts anymore. I'm severely nearsighted , around -8 diopters. At 43 I'm quickly moving towards bifocals.

I think wearing glasses while using bins/scopes degrades the viewing experience more than the increasingly small differences that can bee seen between midprice/highprice bins.

I occassionally remove my glasses while using a scope, bur pretty much find it impossible to do this while birding with bins.

I don't suppose any birders here have tried Lasik?

[Bill A]

I wear glasses. I HATE them. However, I can't wear contacts anymore. I'm severely nearsighted , around -8 diopters. At 43 I'm quickly moving towards bifocals.

I think wearing glasses while using bins/scopes degrades the viewing experience more than the increasingly small differences that can bee seen between midprice/highprice bins.

I occassionally remove my glasses while using a scope, bur pretty much find it impossible to do this while birding with bins.

I don't suppose any birders here have tried Lasik?


Hi Bill,

I'd be cautious about Lasik; an acquaintance of mine had it, it was great for a short while, and then problems developed. Haven't seen him for awhile, so don't know how it ultimately turned out. But I do know he regretted the surgery.

I am nearsighted and wear glasses all the time except for reading. I find the view through my Swaro 8.5x42 binocs is in fact better with my glasses. The only time I notice image degradation is when I let my specs get dirty.

Bill

[Donzo98]

Hi Bill,

I'd be cautious about Lasik; an acquaintance of mine had it, it was great for a short while, and then problems developed. Haven't seen him for awhile, so don't know how it ultimately turned out. But I do know he regretted the surgery.

I am nearsighted and wear glasses all the time except for reading. I find the view through my Swaro 8.5x42 binocs is in fact better with my glasses. The only time I notice image degradation is when I let my specs get dirty.

Bill

I for one am an advocate for Lasik. Not only do I use my bins regularly, but I am a neurosurgeon who uses my eyes almost everyday under an operating microscope. I had Lasik in May 2000, and I never regretted for a second. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. I do not have to dial in any correction on my bins or the operating scope now.

Of course I was nervous about it initially, but I thoroughly researched my opthalmologist and the center he works in.

In short... GREAT DECISION!!

Don

[Bill Atwood]

Hi Don,

Do you remember what prescription your eyes were? I assume you were nearsighted.

Since they've come out with the newer "wavefront" technology I've been tempted to have it done. Cost has delayed me some. Since birders/photographers use their eyes a little more critically than the general public, I've been a little concerned I wouldn't be happy if things didn't come out damn near perfect.

[Donzo98]

Hi Don,

Do you remember what prescription your eyes were? I assume you were nearsighted.

Since they've come out with the newer "wavefront" technology I've been tempted to have it done. Cost has delayed me some. Since birders/photographers use their eyes a little more critically than the general public, I've been a little concerned I wouldn't be happy if things didn't come out damn near perfect.

I dont remember exactly what my prescription was, but it wasnt the best or worst my guy had seen. I can tell you this... there are not too many people who use their eyes more than I do... and I have been very happy with it.

It is really not all that complicated. They slice of a thin layer of the cornea, and then flap it out of the way. Then they use the the laser to take off as much cornea as deemed necessary by the computer. They then irrigate everything... and flap the layer of the cornea back into place. The whole procedure took less then 20 minutes.

That was the technique when I had mine done. I have no complications at all. I do not need correction for anything. It is really great. I too know of people that have minor complications... but I guess I was one of the lucky ones.

[marcus]

Hi Bill,
The only time I notice image degradation is when I let my specs get dirty.

Bill
That sure is true Bill, I experienced it this morning while out doing a little birding.

[Curtis Croulet]

Don, how are stars? The message I've consistently read over the years about Lasik is that, if astronomy is important to you, don't do it.

[Rich N]

Hi Curtis,

The question is, with all the long eye relief binoculars and long eye relief eyepieces for telescopes, why bother with Lasiks?

My eyes have changed quite a bit over the years. If you get Lasik and a couple of years later your eyes change, what do you do? Put on glasses again or go for another operation? Would another operation be ok to perform?

Rich

[Curtis Croulet]

The only readily available series of long-eye-relief eyepieces that I know of are the Vixen Lanthanums, but I have a bunch of Tele Vues, Claves, Meades and whatnot that I've collected over many years. I need glasses to read my charts, but I take them off for observing, and the constant on-off-on-off is a real nuisance.

Edited to add: I'd forgotten about the Tele Vue Radian series. In any case, you're right, Rich: I'd look for different eyepieces rather than risk my vision with Lasik.

[Pileatus]

Hi Curtis,

The question is, with all the long eye relief binoculars and long eye relief eyepieces for telescopes, why bother with Lasiks?

My eyes have changed quite a bit over the years. If you get Lasik and a couple of years later your eyes change, what do you do? Put on glasses again or go for another operation? Would another operation be ok to perform?

Rich

Rich,

I know a great ophthalmologist who cringes when he hears about laser eye surgery. He wears eyeglasses. Read up on the potential problems. Enough said.

John

[Donzo98]

Rich,

I know a great ophthalmologist who cringes when he hears about laser eye surgery. He wears eyeglasses. Read up on the potential problems. Enough said.

John

As someone in the health field... I cant imagine you could classify your acquaintance as a "great" opthalmologist when he doesnt keep up with the latest technological advances.

As a neurosurgeon practicing in New York... the world would be passing right by my office if I wasnt able to offer the latest and greatest.

I thought about my decision for a long time before I decided to have Lasik. The complications are rare. If you read every complication for every drug or procedure you would never take a pill or have surgery.

I consider my Lasik one of the best things I have evere done. I would highly reccommend it.

[Curtis Croulet]

The complications are rare.
But likely permanent for those who suffer them.

Don, I ask again: how are stars? Are they points or smears?

[Rich N]

As someone in the health field... I cant imagine you could classify your acquaintance as a "great" opthalmologist when he doesnt keep up with the latest technological advances.

As a neurosurgeon practicing in New York... the world would be passing right by my office if I wasnt able to offer the latest and greatest.

I thought about my decision for a long time before I decided to have Lasik. The complications are rare. If you read every complication for every drug or procedure you would never take a pill or have surgery.

I consider my Lasik one of the best things I have evere done. I would highly reccommend it.

What is done for people whos eyes change after the Lasik operation? As I mentioned a few posts above my eyes have change quite a bit over the years (become more near sighted). Do you get another Lasik operation? Do you once again wear glasses?

Thanks,
Rich

[Curtis Croulet]

If a Lasik doctor can promise that I'll be able to split Epsilon Lyrae again and that I'll regain at least one full magnitude, then I might get interested.

[Bill Atwood]

What is done for people whos eyes change after the Lasik operation? As I mentioned a few posts above my eyes have change quite a bit over the years (become more near sighted). Do you get another Lasik operation? Do you once again wear glasses?

Sometimes you can have another op, sometimes no, its back to glasses for 20/20.

They want your prescription to have stabilized for at least a year, maybe more, before you are a candidate. The procedure results in thinning of the cornea, so they can only go so far. Doing any laski procedure depend on how much cornea there is.

[Rich N]

Sometimes you can have another op, sometimes no, its back to glasses for 20/20.

They want your prescription to have stabilized for at least a year, maybe more, before you are a candidate. The procedure results in thinning of the cornea, so they can only go so far. Doing any laski procedure depend on how much cornea there is.

Thanks Bill. I'll stick to wearing glasses.

Rich

[Rich N]

Sometimes you can have another op, sometimes no, its back to glasses for 20/20.

They want your prescription to have stabilized for at least a year, maybe more, before you are a candidate. The procedure results in thinning of the cornea, so they can only go so far. Doing any laski procedure depend on how much cornea there is.

Thanks Bill.

I'll stick to wearing glasses.

And, I don't consider 20/20 all that good.

Rich

[Bill Atwood]

I've heard that with the newer "waveguide" machines they can get better than 20/20, but of course there's no guarantee. The less nearsighted you are, the less cornea they blast away, and the better chance of really good results. Of course if things don't turn out good, you can be seriously screwed.

Its just I really hate glasses. The increased sidelight and glare while using bins just plain sucks. Not to mention dirt and sweat on them if it gets warm out. And cup/glasses contact tends to wear off the anti-reflective coating, although its tougher than it used to be.

[Rico]

For something as serious as your eyes, I'd recommend a democractic approach. After all, getting a second (medical) opinion is a form of voting.

I was part-owner of a race horse: beautiful creature with real winning prospects. Unfortunately, it was hampered by a moderate visual impairment. When our vet told us of the Lasik option, we owners were concerned about risking the investment in this way. So, we voted: all in favor of Lasik said "eye", all against said "neigh".

[BarbaraM]

I wear glasses. I HATE them. However, I can't wear contacts anymore. I'm severely nearsighted , around -8 diopters. At 43 I'm quickly moving towards bifocals.

I think wearing glasses while using bins/scopes degrades the viewing experience more than the increasingly small differences that can bee seen between midprice/highprice bins.

I occassionally remove my glasses while using a scope, bur pretty much find it impossible to do this while birding with bins.

I don't suppose any birders here have tried Lasik?

Can't speak much about Lasik - have had one friend who had pretty bad problem with one eye healing - other eye was ok. Expect Don is right - really check out the center and people doing the work. Don't go for the cheapest option in town.

I use my glasses (both clear lenses and Rx sunglasses) with bins and scope - too much trouble to take them on/off, plus see only mush from three feet away so could never find with bins what I've seen with plain view. Had been ignoring the folding rubber eyepiece on my Nikons til I read this thread last week - tried folding them down on Saturday and it really opened up the FOV!

Strongly recommend not bifocals but rather the continuous view lenses with no defined lens areas. Also - when you get new lenses don't have them polish the edge around the lens - unpolished cuts down on glare off the polished edge. Barbara

[Pileatus]

As someone in the health field... I cant imagine you could classify your acquaintance as a "great" opthalmologist when he doesnt keep up with the latest technological advances.

As a neurosurgeon practicing in New York... the world would be passing right by my office if I wasnt able to offer the latest and greatest.

I thought about my decision for a long time before I decided to have Lasik. The complications are rare. If you read every complication for every drug or procedure you would never take a pill or have surgery.

I consider my Lasik one of the best things I have evere done. I would highly reccommend it.

Doc,

It's a simple choice.

I know my eyes function very well with eyeglasses, in spite of the occasional physical discomfort.

I know there's a possibility that surgery could permanently damage my present eyesight. What logic would motivate me to risk such a thing?

John

[Rich N]

Doc,

It's a simple choice.

I know my eyes function very well with eyeglasses, in spite of the occasional physical discomfort.

I know there's a possibility that surgery could permanently damage my present eyesight. What logic would motivate me to risk such a thing?

John


I would guess that vanity is at least 50% of the decision to go with Lasic vs. eye glasses.

Rich

[Curtis Croulet]

John, I'm with you 100% on this one! I couldn't have said it better.

[Bill Atwood]

I would guess that vanity is at least 50% of the decision to go with Lasic vs. eye glasses. Rich

I don't believe its anywhere near 50%.

Why would anyone do this?

Because glasses are a big expensive pain in the ass. Mine cost about $350 a pair. I am blind without them. Have to wear them from first thing in the morning, until I turn out the light at night. Wanna be sure you are gonna be fully functional all day? Better have a spare pair in the car. Oh, and another pair at work. Need sunglasses? Well you can get the clip-ons, of course the only ones that fit good are propietary to your frames and run another $100. Of course they didn't tell you they were plastic and scratch every time the wind blows. So there's one more set of scrip glasses to get.

They collect mist, fog, dirt, sweat and rain. Go birding in the tropics? Hope you don't sweat much.


AND ANOTHER THING...

These forums are full of apparently important discussion of all the minutiae of optics, types of glass, types of prisms, types of phasecoating, number of air to glass surfaces, CA, edge sharpness, flare baffling, what country of manufacture, BLAH, BLAH BLAH and BLAH.

And now you want to throw another set of lenses in front of an optical product not designed to incorporate them?

Yes, bins can work with eyeglasses, but in my not so humble opinion the experience is seriously degraded. Reflection are the biggest problem. Increased sidelighting is close behind. Positioning of the bin is another. I never thought that sharpness would be affected, but I learned that I have my scope cranked up to 60x and still want increased sharpness I take my glasses off. In some situations the the difference appears close to that of phase-coated vs non phase coated.

If I could still wear contacts this would not be an issue. I am pretty nearsighted which makes achieving the corrected acuity I have somewhat more difficult. The newer machines are better at mapppng the cornea while the work is going, and therefore provide better results.

Yes after Lasik I would probably have to get reading glasses. I can deal with that. But the number one thing I could do to improve my birding experiences (other than suddenly becoming idependently wealthy) is to be rid of the need of these damn things for distance vision.

[Rich N]

I've never noticed an increase in resolution looking through my binoculars or astronomical telescope without my glasses.

Throwing another lens in so close to the point of focus has less effect on the quality of the image than at the location of the objective lens.

I hope two years after getting Lasic you don't need more correction to see well at distance.

At the rate of change in Lasic type procedures why not wait a few years?

Rich

[Bill Atwood]

I have waited a few years. Now they are starting a lens implantation procedure.

I'm not saying I'm gonna do it, just that they're are plenty of good reasons to get it done.