'Cool' Birding Destination

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

OK, help required from regular overseas birders, please.

I've saved up enough cash to be able to afford a dream birding holiday. About £3000, (€4400). But I'm not sure where to go. The criteria is this:

1. It can't be too hot, (I cease to function in the heat).
2. I want to see the maximum number of birds as possible, (obviously), but I have a particular fondness for warblers.
3. Preferably, the surroundings will be pleasant, not a war-zone, the locals friendly, and the food and drink delightful.

So, I don't want much then!! Anyone have any bright ideas? Tips for places to stay or go and what I may find there would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

[Steve G]

Old or New world warblers? If the latter is acceptable consider catching migration at Point Pelee in Ontario-this could probably be combined with other birding spots in S.E Canada/ N.E. USA. Even mid May is probably too early to head up to Churchill, Manitoba though combining this & Point Pelee would be a very sweet birding trip! ;)
For example try: www.nature.org/initiatives/programs/birds/animals/pointpelee.html

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Thanks Steve, Blackburnian warblers, eh? Luvverly!

I should have added dates. End of April.

[streatham]

The end of April is pretty early for warblers that far north. You would be better looking at New England or further south at that time of year in my opinion if you are looking for new world warblers.

[Andrew Whitehouse]

If it's the old world you want then Turkey would be very good in spring, with lots of warblers going through on migration as well as breeding and stacks of other species. As good a place as there is in the Western Palearctic and it's friendly, easy to get around and relatively cheap. In fact you'd probably have some change left over from your three grand - or you could pay for a few of us to come with you ;)

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Thinking about it, I think I'd want to stay in Europe. Don't want to confuse myself with totally new birds, (and I'm easily confused). Maybe could leave it til mid-lateMay. I'm just impatient to get away thats all.

Thanks all for your ideas!

Andrew, Wouldn't Turkey be a hit hot that time of year?

[Jane Turner]

I'd go to China

[Steve G]

There's always Lesvos in April-no shortage of Warblers to get to grips with including a few wee(big) sweeties such as Olive tree, Ruppells, Eastern Olivaceous, E. Orphean, E. Bonelli's. In April it's warm rather than hot. Donana area in late April is another possibility-not usually too hot -good variety of Warblers, lots of Raptors, breeding Herons, Marsh Terns, end of wader passage with likelihood of summer plumage Curlew Sand., Spot. Red., lots of other good stuff such as Pratincoles, Pintail Sandgrouse, Marbled duck,etc etc. Cheap flights to Malaga, excellent new & cheap campsite in El Rocio.............think I'll book up myself! ;)

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Turkey wouldn't be too bad usually in April/ early May. I'm not a big fan of the heat either and I was okay in spring most of the time. It's probably unlikely to be more than 25 degrees C in most places. If you go up to the Black Sea coast or into the mountains then it could easily be pretty chilly but you'll have Green Warbler, Mountain Chiffchaff, Olivaceous Warbler, Barred Warbler etc for company.

[SimonC]

FWIW Darren, I've always fancied a trip to Bulgaria (not that i'm suggesting you pay for me to go!) Not sure what's there mind (can't be too dissimilar to Turkey though?)
But that's probably just me being ever so slightly non-conformist (old habits die hard! ;) )
Course if you did go end of April you'd miss the "Jolly Boys Outing" on the N.Norfolk coast :eek!:

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

FWIW Darren, I've always fancied a trip to Bulgaria (not that i'm suggesting you pay for me to go!) Not sure what's there mind (can't be too dissimilar to Turkey though?)
But that's probably just me being ever so slightly non-conformist (old habits die hard! ;) )
Course if you did go end of April you'd miss the "Jolly Boys Outing" on the N.Norfolk coast :eek!:

Bulgaria Simon?

That'll be your moustache fetish mate.

[very boring banned member]

Macedonia.

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Macedonia.
Hmmmm, locquacious as ever, Karwin. Cheers for that mate!;)

[birdman]

Darren, if this is to be your Dream Once In A Lifetime Holiday... get out of Europe!!!!

I understand what you mean about the worry of too many new birds, but (and I don't want to play down your warbler fetish) spend your three grand on something a bit more adventurous!!!!

With the joys of budget flights, you can get around Europe for loads less than £3K.

If you want English, then try the States or Canada (not that I've been to either).

If I'd got your three grand, I'd be sorting out a trip to New Zealand and Australia, matey!!!!

GO FOR IT!!!

[CJW]

Kenya.

[Bluetail]

How safe is Kenya these days?

[John Butler]

Hi Darren.

Why not try southern Spain in mid-April to mid-May. Spend a few days in Tarifa watching the raptor migration (kites, eagles, harriers, vultures) as well as passerines.
Follow this up with a few days in Donana for all the goodies suggested by Steve G. ie. Glossy Ibis, Purple Heron, Little Bittern, Squacco and Night Herons, Red-knobbed Coots, Marbled Ducks, Pin-tailed Sandgrouse, Iberian (Azure-winged) Magpies, Bee-eaters, Greater and Lesser Short-toed Larks, Calandras, etc. together with Subalpine, Spectacled, Cetti's, Savi's, Willow, Sedge, Olivaceous, Melodious, Reed and Great Reed, Moustached, Dartford, and Fan-tailed (Zitting Cisticolas) Warblers.
Then move on to Extremadura and Monfrague for Great and Little Bustards, Black-bellied Sandgrouse, Monk and Egyptian Vultures, Spanish Imperial, Bonelli's and Golden Eagles, Black Storks, Eagle Owls, Blue Rock Thrush, Rollers, Great Spotted cuckoos, Golden Orioles, Rock Buntings, Rock and Spanish Sparrows, etc.
Two weeks would probably cost you half your proposed budget and the food, wine, beer and company is first class. Oh, and the birding's ok too.

Regards.
John.

[Hanno]

I'd go to China. too. Beidahe in spring is magic: tons of warblers, and a lot of other good stuff as well.

[Nancy]

Spread your wings, Darren, and get out of Europe.

You could make to Australia with that sort of budget but you might be stretching it a bit. Why not some where in Africa. South Africa is wonderful and safe (I think), and Botswana is marvelous and was very safe when I was there. Kenya and Tanzania have incredible birds but I'd only go there on an organised tour with local drivers and guides which would be very expensive.

What about New Guinea and all the wonderful Birds of Paradise?

You can travel around Europe by train and stay in Backpackers hostels for much less than 3 thou or do you want to stay in first class hotels?

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Wow, now I'm suffering from 'option paralysis'!

I still think it has to be Europe so as not to confuse myself, and it mustn't be HOT. Can't stand the heat.

I'm erring towards several cheaper trips now. But Spain and Turkey are looking favourites so far. Paella, yummee.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

[Jane Turner]

Europe can be confusing! Try an autumn fall of Pied/Semi-Pied and Collared Flycatchers if you want to be completely bamboozled!

[very boring banned member]

Lotsa folks willing to send You outta Europe (& these australasians dunno what they will get)? Anyhoo, I was very serious bout FYROM, only that I meant to propose Montenegro, but Skopsko Pivo is almost as good as Nik, and there are some great lakes SW.

[CJW]

How safe is Kenya these days?

I think it's alright in the coastal areas Jason - Mombasa and the like.
Stunning birding.
I'd go back tomorrow, if I could afford it.
Chris

[satrow]

Darren,

If I had the cash, Kazakhstan would be high on my list.

Andy.

[harvelle]

How safe is Kenya these days?
I've never had any problems in Kenya [1] - have gone pretty well every year since 1991 and am just planning trips our next 2 trips (Western Kenya in September and, probably, the coast the following Feb). Kenya remains safe outside Nariobi although there are the odd groups of bandits, particularly up in the north of the country. That said, last time out we took one of the roads that had been closed for a number of years due to banditry but had re-opened a couple of months earlier. We had no problems at all ..... and had the area pretty much to ourselves.

We avoid the northern border regions, they are still dangerous and there are areas (like the desert road to Turkana) where you have to travel in convoy with an armed guard. You also have to take on an armed guard to travel between Tsavo and Amboseli.

Increasingly we travel off the normal tourist routes but we always go with a Kenyan guide who checks out the security situation for us.

But - to get back onto Darrenom's question ..... Kenya is, as far as I'm concerned, the place to bird. But some of the really good birding areas are hot or very hot. You could try birding in the Highlands - Mt Kenya and the Aberdares are both relatively cool.

But for a really special birding trip how about Scotland?

Regards
harvelle

[1] Being strictly honest about this I did once spend an uncomfortable 20 minutes under a buffet table with t'other 'alf and a group of Kenyan businessmen. A group of armed men robbed the hotel we were in. They emptied the hotel cash box but didn't go near any tourists so we lost nothing. Other than the shock of having someone pointing a gun in your direction and shouting "get down on the floor" there was nothing unremarkable about it.

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

We avoid the northern border regions, they are still dangerous and there are areas (like the desert road to Turkana) where you have to travel in convoy with an armed guard. You also have to take on an armed guard to travel between Tsavo and Amboseli.

Increasingly we travel off the normal tourist routes but we always go with a Kenyan guide who checks out the security situation for us.

But - to get back onto Darrenom's question ..... Kenya is, as far as I'm concerned, the place to bird. But some of the really good birding areas are hot or very hot. You could try birding in the Highlands - Mt Kenya and the Aberdares are both relatively cool.

But for a really special birding trip how about Scotland?

Regards
harvelle

[1] Being strictly honest about this I did once spend an uncomfortable 20 minutes under a buffet table with t'other 'alf and a group of Kenyan businessmen. A group of armed men robbed the hotel we were in. They emptied the hotel cash box but didn't go near any tourists so we lost nothing. Other than the shock of having someone pointing a gun in your direction and shouting "get down on the floor" there was nothing unremarkable about it.

RIGHT, THAT DEFINITELY rules out Kenya! I'm going to be alone, and I'm small and vulnerable enough as it is!!

[harvelle]

RIGHT, THAT DEFINITELY rules out Kenya! I'm going to be alone, and I'm small and vulnerable enough as it is!!
Sorry if I put you off. If it helps, I'm a complete wimp and would never put myself into any danger. Kenya is no more dangerous than many other destinations (and is considerably safer than a lot). We've never personally been robbed, mugged or in any way inconvenienced (other than the discomfort of lying under a buffet table .... and the Kenyans we met under there were charming!). When you bear in mind that our trips have included going birdwatching during the 2001 election campaign - and finding ourselves on Rusinga Island (which is small but bustling) during a very acrimonius political rally .... and the worst that happened was a few people looked at us a bit oddly.

We've also inadvertently wandered into the middle of a Pokot initiation booze up (we were tracking an elusive species and failed to notice the drunken men with spears, drums and whistles approaching us). All that happened was they asked us what we were doing and we showed them some of the birds through our scope .... they thought we were the best entertainment of the day!

Basically it's like travelling anywhere - big cities are dangerous if you don't know your way around. I have several colleagues whose first experience of the USA was being robbed as they exited the airport. And many years ago a norwegian friend of mine was robbed and beaten when he got off the train in Liverpool. Off the beaten track you have to be careful to check the local situation in case there are any problems.

But it's a wonderful country to visit with breathtaking scenary and an amazing number of bird species (the list stands at just under 1100).

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Sorry if I put you off. If it helps, I'm a complete wimp and would never put myself into any danger. Kenya is no more dangerous than many other destinations (and is considerably safer than a lot). We've never personally been robbed, mugged or in any way inconvenienced (other than the discomfort of lying under a buffet table .... and the Kenyans we met under there were charming!). When you bear in mind that our trips have included going birdwatching during the 2001 election campaign - and finding ourselves on Rusinga Island (which is small but bustling) during a very acrimonius political rally .... and the worst that happened was a few people looked at us a bit oddly.

We've also inadvertently wandered into the middle of a Pokot initiation booze up (we were tracking an elusive species and failed to notice the drunken men with spears, drums and whistles approaching us). All that happened was they asked us what we were doing and we showed them some of the birds through our scope .... they thought we were the best entertainment of the day!

Basically it's like travelling anywhere - big cities are dangerous if you don't know your way around. I have several colleagues whose first experience of the USA was being robbed as they exited the airport. And many years ago a norwegian friend of mine was robbed and beaten when he got off the train in Liverpool. Off the beaten track you have to be careful to check the local situation in case there are any problems.

But it's a wonderful country to visit with breathtaking scenary and an amazing number of bird species (the list stands at just under 1100).
It does sound an amazing and intriguing country Harvelle. Your enthusiasm for the place is clear from the way you write. I'll be sure to visit some day, but not on my own!! I don't think gangsters and wild men would be intimidated by a pink handbag!! Thanks very much for your replies.

Regards

[SimonC]

......I don't think gangsters and wild men would be intimidated by a pink handbag!! ...........

Dunno though, it's making me very jumpy :D

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Dunno though, it's making me very jumpy :D
you wait 'til we go to Norfolk mate, you aint seen the clothes that I go birding in yet. (Nice one on the Chiffchaff by the way)

[very boring banned member]

Have I told that I am colorblind?

[Jane Turner]

So here is my serious suggestion. (though with 3k I'd still go to China!)

Get a cheapo flight to Malaga. Hire a car and drive yourself to a little place called Zahara de las Atunes West of Gibraltar and just south of Barbate.

Just south of Zaharra is a beach called Atlanterra. Its like Cornwall - sea is the Atlantic and there can be big rollers (so take a belly board). You will be sharing the beach with about 20 people and about 60 Audoins Gulls. There is this cliff behind the beach which has Pallid and White-rumped Swift breeding on it. In Autumn there will be a more or less continuous passage of big raptors and Storks. Flocks of 1000's! The scrub behind the beach is great for warblers!


If you drive back up the road to Zaharra, where you meet the main Gib - Seville rd, there is a cross roads. This is the entrance to la Janda.

The road side verges can be filled with migrants, I saw 200+ Praticoles hunting over a field... there are Montagus Harriers everywhere, Wood Sands etc in the ditches. Griffon and Egyptian Vulture are easy to see, on my last trip there was a pair of Black-shouldered Kites and Eage Owl too. If you aclimatise to the heat - its only a days drive to Extremadura!

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Have I told that I am colorblind?
YES KARWIN!!

A colourbind, visiting alien who takes photos of Redpolls with their arses in the air, eats elk meat and fishermans friends and drinks yak's milk!

And its the rest of the world thats crazy?

Yeah, right on K!!;)

[Edward]

Come to Iceland,

1) overheating will not be a problem (except in bars and nightclubs). It was 7°C and sunny on Monday and people were in T-shirts in the street! Expect a pleasant 13-17°C in summer.

2) can't do much in the way of warblers (although I have managed to see 14-15 species here over the years) but there are plenty of other birds to make up for it. We don't have a lot of species compared with many places but there are lots of individuals, and many visitors are amazed how approachable birds are here. Harlequin Duck, Barrow's Goldeneye, five species of auk, Red-necked Phalarope, Gyr Falcon, White-tailed Eagle, Ptarmigan, Red-throated and Great Northern Divers, stacks of breeding waders are all easily seen. There is a lot of potential to find rare birds yourself as there are only a handful of birders covering the whole country.

3) Surely one of the safest countries in Europe, crime virtually non-existent. Some of the wildest and most beautiful scenery in Europe. No crowds, makes northern Scotland seem positively overcrowded. 24 hour daylight mid-May to mid-July, birding in broad daylight at 2 a.m. in northern Iceland is unforgettable.

4. Food and drink is expensive but where else can you watch (hundreds and thousands of) Puffins by day and eat a couple of them by night. You have to have a very sensitive palate to distinguish Common and Brünnich's Guillemot on the plate though.

E

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Come to Iceland,

1) overheating will not be a problem (except in bars and nightclubs). It was 7°C and sunny on Monday and people were in T-shirts in the street! Expect a pleasant 13-17°C in summer.

2) can't do much in the way of warblers (although I have managed to see 14-15 species here over the years) but there are plenty of other birds to make up for it. We don't have a lot of species compared with many places but there are lots of individuals, and many visitors are amazed how approachable birds are here. Harlequin Duck, Barrow's Goldeneye, five species of auk, Red-necked Phalarope, Gyr Falcon, White-tailed Eagle, Ptarmigan, Red-throated and Great Northern Divers, stacks of breeding waders are all easily seen. There is a lot of potential to find rare birds yourself as there are only a handful of birders covering the whole country.

3) Surely one of the safest countries in Europe, crime virtually non-existent. Some of the wildest and most beautiful scenery in Europe. No crowds, makes northern Scotland seem positively overcrowded. 24 hour daylight mid-May to mid-July, birding in broad daylight at 2 a.m. in northern Iceland is unforgettable.

4. Food and drink is expensive but where else can you watch (hundreds and thousands of) Puffins by day and eat a couple of them by night. You have to have a very sensitive palate to distinguish Common and Brünnich's Guillemot on the plate though.

E

Funny that Edward, I was looking at flights to Reykjavik only yesterday and thought it a very appealing option. I'll be heading your way sometime in the next 6 weeks!

Couldn't eat a Puffin though!

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

So here is my serious suggestion. (though with 3k I'd still go to China!)

Get a cheapo flight to Malaga. Hire a car and drive yourself to a little place called Zahara de las Atunes West of Gibraltar and just south of Barbate.

Just south of Zaharra is a beach called Atlanterra. Its like Cornwall - sea is the Atlantic and there can be big rollers (so take a belly board). You will be sharing the beach with about 20 people and about 60 Audoins Gulls. There is this cliff behind the beach which has Pallid and White-rumped Swift breeding on it. In Autumn there will be a more or less continuous passage of big raptors and Storks. Flocks of 1000's! The scrub behind the beach is great for warblers!


If you drive back up the road to Zaharra, where you meet the main Gib - Seville rd, there is a cross roads. This is the entrance to la Janda.

The road side verges can be filled with migrants, I saw 200+ Praticoles hunting over a field... there are Montagus Harriers everywhere, Wood Sands etc in the ditches. Griffon and Egyptian Vulture are easy to see, on my last trip there was a pair of Black-shouldered Kites and Eage Owl too. If you aclimatise to the heat - its only a days drive to Extremadura!
And THIS is my late summer break. Thanks Jane- spot on!!

[helenol]

Italy. They do a great line in handbags I believe.

[Steve G]

Italy. They do a great line in handbags I believe.
Thought that was Crocodiles. :h?:

[erik]

You could also fly to Amsterdam and spend 3k on marihuana. Birds will be flying by then pretty soon :D

[pduxon]

Well Bulgaria sounded quite sensible to me. But if you are worried about the temperature what about Iceland?

[SimonC]

Well Bulgaria sounded quite sensible to me. But if you are worried about the temperature what about Iceland?
Cheers Pete :t:

Glad someone still takes me seriously!

[Rob Smallwood]

Save your money and go with the European suggestions, Lesvos or Turkey would be ideal.

If you plump for Turkey I can recommend at least a week in the Dalyan area, very close to Dalaman Airport, extremely cheap accomodation/food and fantastic birding in April that will test your skills but still present the spectacle of spring migration.

Try www.eurobirding.com for trip reports for most of the destinations mentioned.

I'd make that £3000 cover at least 3 - 4 trips!!

[birdman]

Funny that Edward, I was looking at flights to Reykjavik only yesterday and thought it a very appealing option. I'll be heading your way sometime in the next 6 weeks!

Couldn't eat a Puffin though!
I trust you were looking at Icelandair!

London to Reyljavik for 40 to 60 quid + tax. Check the website!

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

I trust you were looking at Icelandair!

London to Reyljavik for 40 to 60 quid + tax. Check the website!

Indeedy, Icelandair. was hoping I'd meet Bjork while i was there. I like feisty women too!

[birdman]

D'you know... I corrected and recorrected ReyKjavik enough times, you would've thought I'd've got it right in the end, I ask you!!!

Bjork eh.... there's one mad bird for you life list!

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Edward,

4. Food and drink is expensive but where else can you watch (hundreds and thousands of) Puffins by day and eat a couple of them by night. You have to have a very sensitive palate to distinguish Common and Brünnich's Guillemot on the plate though.

Did you put Killian to the test when he was in Iceland?I know that he found Ireland's only Brünnich's(in 1986),but how would he fare in the 'great taste test'?;)
Harry

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Right, decision made! Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.........even Karwin;)

Mirror..........funny!

Iceland it is, during mid-May. Thank you Edward for your kind suggestions and advice.

This means 3 things:

1. You'll all be safe from me for 10 days.
2. Simon will have to play with himself. ;)
3. Edward- lock up your women!

And Extremadura for Autumn migration.

Might even get my lifelist over 250!

Many thanks to all.

Regards,

[very boring banned member]

Mirror..........funny!

Someone wiped the mirror clean, I see (though I'm colourblind). Yet one suggestion: to Rhodes of Greece in the end of april - I'll be there!

[Dawn Balmer]

Darren

I think if you want to stay in Europe and go way at the end of April/early May, then I agree that Lesbos would be an excellent choice. As well as warblers there are many other species to see, and the food and drink is good. Weather is pleasant, very rarely hot at the end of April.

Why not save your money for another trip further afield some other time.

Dawn Balmer

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Someone wiped the mirror clean, I see (though I'm colourblind). Yet one suggestion: to Rhodes of Greece in the end of april - I'll be there!
Karwin, think about it mate. You and me, in the same location? It'll be like a hatstand convention.

Still could be good. You wouldn't be blinded by the glare from my fluorescent handbag, which would be handy for keeping your Fishermans Friends in.

[very boring banned member]

Karwin, think about it mate. You and me, in the same location? It'll be like a hatstand convention.

Still could be good. You wouldn't be blinded by the glare from my fluorescent handbag, which would be handy for keeping your Fishermans Friends in.
You could watch after our 2year birder, while I do the birding :bounce:

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

You could watch after our 2year birder, while I do the birding :bounce:
same mental age. could be good.

[very boring banned member]

Let's organise a Funsmeet! To all who think birding is fun.

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

Let's organise a Funsmeet! To all who think birding is fun.
Cool idea K. My place or yours?

[very boring banned member]

My place is a funnyfarm.

[Edward]

Hi Edward,


Did you put Killian to the test when he was in Iceland?I know that he found Ireland's only Brünnich's(in 1986),but how would he fare in the 'great taste test'?;)
Harry

Brünnich's Guillemots are very thin on the ground in winter in SW Iceland Harry so I don't think he got the chance to try. I only ever see them between May and early August, and besides, my palate has been ruined by putrid shark and rancid skate which is all the rage here.

E

[BhutanBirds]

Hi Darren,

Come to Bhutan. Lots of warblers and other birds.

People are very friendly, peaceful country, imposing art & architecture and prestine environment. Could be a trip of your lifetime.

BhutanBirds
www.naturetourism-bhutan.com

[Surreybirder]

If I had £3000 I'd definitely head out of Europe (can do that any time I've got a bit of spare cash).
My suggestion would be California... lovely climate, masses of birds, safe, all mod cons.
Australia is also a fantastic place for birding... getting your life list up to 250 would be as easy as falling off a plank.
India in December (not hot in the northern parts) is another possibility.
If you insist on staying in Europe, Cyprus takes a lot of beating, in my op. You could have three hols there for £3,000!
Have fun, wherever you go.
Ken