Ultravid focus wheel issue !

[niallo]

Hi all

A mate of mine (and myself potentially) are considering purchase of 8x42 BR Ultravids (or perhaps 8,5x42 Swaros, but the Ultravids do present a neater package for travel etc.).

There is a rumour of an issue regarding the Ultravid focus wheel - loosening or something like that, not sure exactly. It was mentioned by a well known and reputable retailer of birding optics in the UK during a casual phone enquiry. He said he has had quite a few returned with this fault... !

We contacted 3 other UK main birding optics retailers who would be likely to sell quite a few Ultravids. They have had no Ultravids returned with faults (one mentioned that IF something does go wrong, Leica can be quite slow in their service, unlike Swarovski.... but that is a separate issue).

Is it likely that the retailer who first mentioned the problem was just unlucky ? Is there a quality issue ? Anyone heard anything about this ??? (Ther retailer in question is very reputable and I did not think it was a try-on to sell an 8,5 EL...).

Any info appreciated asap.

thanks

[dogfish]

Not heard any reports of problems with Ultravid focusing Niall. I bought a pair of 8x42s about six weeks ago. The focussing at first seemed very slightly stiff/rough but this has disappeared with use.


However, there are frequent problems with the EL focusing, which tends to dry up. My 10x42s are being serviced for this now. The guy at Kay Optical, Morden, says he has had lots (including at least one pair of 8x32s) come in with this problem. As I said here recently, Kay are pro-Swarovski so I believe this to be true.

So picking Swarovski instead may not be the answer.....

Sean

[niallo]

hi Dogfish, thanks for your reply. Good to hear from an ultravid owner that all is ok, at least with your unit.
I heard the same thing about Swaro, and in fact checked it out recently with the Kay guy. He said that the newer 8,5 ELs have new/extra lubrication and do not suffer from the fault of having their focussing dry out. Also the newer 8,5 ELs have an improved Swarobright coating. He said one should watch out for this if thinking about buying second hand, or from a retail outlet where the turnover is not as brisk on these bins.

No perfect solution, choosing top end bins is mind boggling !

cheers
Niall

[niallo]

Just for the fun of it I rang Leica UK this afternoon, to see if they had Ultravids being returned with focus wheel problems. They said no and were very surprised to hear it. I did not want to say too much for obvious reasons, or name my source, but the guy in the service dept was adamant that there was no quality issue on the ultravid focussing wheel (in fairness, a couple of other retailers did say this too, it is just that "one" particular retailer that brought it to my attention..).

There may or may not be more to this than meets the eye...

Unless anyone has other info that in their experience they have, or heard of, focus wheel problems with the Ultravids, the likelihood is that there is not a specific issue with the focus wheel as such (although perhaps the odd "bad" one gets through, as in the case of any manufacturing process.

N

[John N]

Hi niall.. I purchased a pair of 10x42 ultravids two months ago and I am pleased to say I love them, so far no problems at all.

John.

[scampo]

Not heard any reports of problems with Ultravid focusing Niall. I bought a pair of 8x42s about six weeks ago. The focussing at first seemed very slightly stiff/rough but this has disappeared with use.


However, there are frequent problems with the EL focusing, which tends to dry up. My 10x42s are being serviced for this now. The guy at Kay Optical, Morden, says he has had lots (including at least one pair of 8x32s) come in with this problem. As I said here recently, Kay are pro-Swarovski so I believe this to be true.

So picking Swarovski instead may not be the answer.....

Sean
I have met no one who has been anything other than delighted with their swaro bins - as I am with mine. Swaro have a very good reputation with speed of service and I have heard (from a retailer, though) that Leica can be very slow - but it probably depends upon availability of spares and so forth.

[Leif]

I have met no one who has been anything other than delighted with their swaro bins - as I am with mine. Swaro have a very good reputation with speed of service and I have heard (from a retailer, though) that Leica can be very slow - but it probably depends upon availability of spares and so forth.

One reason InFocus do not stock Leica is (or at least was) slow servicing. I have been waiting 3 weeks for a Leica filter and have been told by Warehouse Express that I must wait another week, the delay being at Leica. (I would assume that WE are a favoured customer too.)

[dogfish]

Note on speed of service: my Swarovskis have been away for just over 4 weeks now; Kay Optical estimated about four weeks. Not lightning quick, I'd say. But there's no doubt Leica has a poorer reputation for service.

Sean

[scampo]

Note on speed of service: my Swarovskis have been away for just over 4 weeks now; Kay Optical estimated about four weeks. Not lightning quick, I'd say. But there's no doubt Leica has a poorer reputation for service.

Sean
And Nikon took over a week to estimate and now tell me that the lens hood on my scope is out of stock and they are waiting for a dlivery from Japan - could be two or more weeks. Seems like once they have our money they don't really worry about the rest?

[laika]

hi Dogfish, thanks for your reply. Good to hear from an ultravid owner that all is ok, at least with your unit.
I heard the same thing about Swaro, and in fact checked it out recently with the Kay guy. He said that the newer 8,5 ELs have new/extra lubrication and do not suffer from the fault of having their focussing dry out. Also the newer 8,5 ELs have an improved Swarobright coating. He said one should watch out for this if thinking about buying second hand, or from a retail outlet where the turnover is not as brisk on these bins.

No perfect solution, choosing top end bins is mind boggling !

cheers
Niall

Do you know when Swarovski 8.5 El got that improved Swarobright coating and new/extra lubrication?

[postcardcv]

I have also heard of the problem with the focussing on the Ultravids (from two totally independant retailers) so think there may be an issue there. Though both retailers said that when they have spoken to Leica about it they've been told it is just on a few pairs and not a general problem.

"One reason InFocus do not stock Leica is (or at least was) slow servicing" - though it may be true that Leica are not the fastest I don't think this was really the reason.

[Leif]

"One reason InFocus do not stock Leica is (or at least was) slow servicing" - though it may be true that Leica are not the fastest I don't think this was really the reason.

I have heard several reasons from several InFocus salesmen, and there is a common theme or two. I heard twice that InFocus were unimpressed with the responsiveness of Leica to service issues. (Not honouring the guarantee when some binoculars flooded was one 'story'.) I heard once that the margin given by Leica (i.e. profit) was too small. I heard on another occasion that InFocus bought a large stock of Leica kit, and were hit badly (lost a lot of money) when Leica then lowered the RRP. That last story is at least consistent with the low profit margin story.

The problem is that these are all second hand 'stories' and you never know who started them and why. The low profit margin lineat least has the ring of truth about it.

[Ragna]

I have had a pair of 8x42 ultravid for two months now and i am very pleased with them.When buying i compared them with Nikon Hgs and must admit the focus wheel was a bit notchey? compared with the Nikon.Had forgotten about it till this thread came up.Would be nice to compare with another pair to see if mine are good or bad.Even with a slightly notchey focus wheel i still think these are superb binoculars.

[cuddy]

Perhaps Manufacturers could be invited to a open chat on a specific day and we the users could give our opinion on their products and services?
Cuddy.

[pburgers]

I purchased Leica's 8x42 Ultravid over Swaro EL's specifically because I preferred the focus wheel on the Ultras to the EL model. They just seemed to me to come into focus much easier/quicker. It also seems to me that the minimum focus distance is actually somewhat less than the stated spec, mine are clearly in focus at around 8-9 feet. Maybe I got lucky? In any case I have NO regret about purchasing the Leica's and would unreservedly recommend them to anyone interested in purchasing a top shelf bin.
Paul Burgers
Sioux Falls SD

[niallo]

Do you know when Swarovski 8.5 El got that improved Swarobright coating and new/extra lubrication?

No idea, and probably should have asked when I got the chance. The Kay Optical guy should be able to tell you.

[william j clive]

Another reason I have heard from In Focus staff as to why they do not stock Leica was that the foccussing on the Televid scope incorporated the use of a rubber band in the system! Incidentally, I have no axe to grind with Leica products. Two of my friends have Leica 8x42 BA's and APO Televids and both they and I rate the optics as excellent.

Clive

[Adey Baker]

Another reason I have heard from In Focus staff as to why they do not stock Leica was that the foccussing on the Televid scope incorporated the use of a rubber band in the system!

Clive

According to the cutaway diagram, the 'rubber band' looks more like a car's fan belt so unless you spin the focus wheel into the 'red zone' above 6,000 revs it should be OK!

[scampo]

"...unless you spin the focus wheel into the 'red zone' above 6,000 revs it should be OK!"

Lovely - brought a big smile to my face...

I should think there are business reasons why In Focus don't stock Leica. I'd be surprised if their owner isn't on this forum but won't tell! They make extrordinarily good optics without doubt, but In Focus do sell both Zeiss and Nikon which, in my view, are at least the equal of Leica and, in the large scope department at least, of a more modern design.

[Sleeper]

Hi niallo

I was wondering what you were reffering to when you state "focus wheel problems"?

I have a pair of Ultravids which are to my eyes superb.

regarding the focus wheel.......yes!!!! The wheel does have slight play which is apparent when the wheel is being turned in one direction and then immediately turned the opposite. I can detect this slight nil focus section in between the two focus movements.

Others have had a similar experience and has been mentioned on this site.

I am more than happy with the Bins though as this does not detract from my viewing in any way.

[Ragna]

Sleeper you've put it perfectly thats exactly how my focus wheel feels

[niallo]

I had another opportunity to check out bins at the shop today. Compared Leica 8x32 BN vs Swarovski 8x32 EL. If you look for it, there are definitely differences, the Swaro being brighter, better balanced and crisper. But there is not much in it...

Compared Swaro 8x32 EL to the Ultravid 8x42. Ultravid slightly brighter and a bit contrastier. Again, not much in it. Fiddled with the focus wheel and also looked at a second one out of the box. Still have my doubts, but seems like that's the way it is and chances are if you buy one, you will be ok.

If I were in the market for ideal bins, with ergonomics/weight as an issue, I would look at Swaro 8x32 EL (the 8,5 model is a bit too unwieldy for my liking) and the Ultravid 8x42. Very hard to call between the two. We have heard from Ultravid owners, and all seem 100% pleased. What about anyone who bought the 8x32 EL ?? Any feedback ?

Disclaimer: the shop I was at does not do Nikon so did not have opportunity to compare the SE or HGs which by all accounts box above their weight and compare favourably.

cheers,

[Leif]

Compared Swaro 8x32 EL to the Ultravid 8x42. Ultravid slightly brighter and a bit contrastier. Again, not much in it. Fiddled with the focus wheel and also looked at a second one out of the box. Still have my doubts, but seems like that's the way it is and chances are if you buy one, you will be ok.


I'm sure that if you did the comparison on a dull overcast day you would see a large difference.

[Swissboy]

Sleeper you've put it perfectly thats exactly how my focus wheel feels

It appears that the Ultravid construction is like the one on the Trinovids. In that case, there might well be a chance that this "play" might increase. I had my Trinovids in to get that problem fixed when it became too much. That was several years ago. There is just a slight play again now, but nothing to worry about, as long as it stays this way.

[scampo]

Disclaimer: the shop I was at does not do Nikon so did not have opportunity to compare the SE or HGs which by all accounts box above their weight and compare favourably.

cheers,
The Nikon must surely be worth a look as it gives such a bright natural and crisp image (and at Warehouse Express are surely a real bargain in comparison). But the Swaro 8x32 are certainly a dinky little pair of bins, for sure. I haven't seen the Ultravids yet.

[Ragna]

I tried the 8x32 Swarovski when buying my Ultravid,iconsidered the Leica 8x42s slightly better and as they were only £25 more choose those.I consider the Swarovski 8x32s at £795 over priced for a 8x32 compared with Nikon and Leica 8x32 models

[mak]

Perhaps Manufacturers could be invited to a open chat on a specific day and we the users could give our opinion on their products and services?
Cuddy.

Interesting.
But on the other hand, would we be prepared to listen to the answers, and accept their answers, and how would you feel if they could clearly demonstrate that someones particular purchase, was not as good as everyone had said it was (measured, not subjective). It must be a two way thing.
No doubt looking at some of the posts they are listening to what the users are saying (maybe even taking part in the forum) and they might be thinking that some of the points are valid, or heavens forbid utter rubbish.
I would feel a bit stupid, if I should make a point, which turned out to be down to lack of optical knowledge or rumour, which is unfounded

[scampo]

I tried the 8x32 Swarovski when buying my Ultravid,iconsidered the Leica 8x42s slightly better and as they were only £25 more choose those.I consider the Swarovski 8x32s at £795 over priced for a 8x32 compared with Nikon and Leica 8x32 models
I haven't even seen a pair of Ultravids, yet, Graham. They sound a delight.

[Ragna]

Steve yes they are a delight to use fit my hands perfectly and seem as sharp as the Nikon HGs.Had my last pair of binoculars(Ziess 7x42 )for 15 years so considered it time for a new pair, hope the Ultravids will be as reliable as the Ziess.

[scampo]

I saw a cousin of mine the other day - a very keen local birder, but one who keeps himself to himself. He was still using his pair of Zeiss which he'd had from those heady days when they were the best to have.

[John N]

Hi scampo. I only changed my ziess 10x50's last month, I bought them in 1974. Sad or what?!!! I must say it's a very different world through the ultravids.

John.

[scampo]

How different, John? I didn't get the chance to use my cousin's bins. I'll ask him the next time we meet.

[alibenn]

I have used my pair of Swaro 8.5's for nearly 2 years now from rainforests to deserts and they have been spot on in every situation. The focus distance is c7 feet max, and they're tough as old boots!! They are heavy tho!!

I use a Leica Televid APO scope though, and doubt if I would buy another!!

You pays your money, takes your choice, and then need councelling to comfort you!

[John N]

Hi Scampo. The ultravids show a lot more clarity,which is only to be expected as there is a difference of 30 years technology. They are far better in bad light, again to be expected and they are a lot lighter. Besides I got another lifer with the leica (a Bittern on my local patch) ;) On the downside my bank balance is also a lot lighter :C John.

[Ragna]

John I've just changed from Ziess 7x42 to 8x42 Ultravid.Yes they are a lot of money but when i part exchanged them for the Leicas i only lost £115 over what i originally paid for them 15 years ago, less than £8 a year ,there are very few pastimes that cost so little.Zeiss,Swarovski,Leica and Nikon equipment will always hold a better second hand value.So i think its well worth buying top gear.

[John N]

Hi Graham. Yes it's very true what you say. You get what you pay for and I think the ultravids (mine are 10x42)were worth every penny.I now keep the zeiss in the car at all times.Enjoy your Ultravids. John.

[Ragna]

Thanks John i will.

[Sleeper]

Well sadly the play in the focus wheel is getting worse in my Ultravids. I am now contemplating taking them to the bird fair and chatting with the leica stand.

Does anybody have any experience of leica service? thanks in advance.

[Leif]

Does anybody have any experience of leica service? thanks in advance.

It's execrable ...

I purchased a brand new UV filter for my Leica scope. It took 4 weeks to arrive, was very dirty, and had the wrong glass in it. It was sent right back to Leica UK. Two weeks on and I am still waiting. 6 weeks for a brand new filter for Christ's sake.

I sent them an email asking for confirmation that the carriage and packaging costs would be refunded but they can't be bothered to reply. If they don't then I'll take them to the small claims court on principle.

I don't think I'll ever buy another Leica product. (I'd previously heard lots of stories about poor service ... )

[scampo]

I was told by the RSPB shop where I bought my Swaros a similar story, Leif - and that made up my mind, even though I did think at the time that I should never need the service dept. on such a quality purchase.

Recently, I had a small problem with my Swaros and they sent a spare part by return. I can't speak too highly of their service department.

[Sleeper]

Oh Dear I better not hold my breath. I am dreading this already.

Any good news would be appreciated at this time...........please!!!

[scampo]

Well, one thing when you get to the RW Bird Fair - speaking to a Leica person rather than the Leica stand might be a touch more productive...

(-;

Secondly, you own one of the best ( the best?) pairs of binoculars in the known universe. There - good news indeed. But then, I suppose there will be plenty of Good News over the next three days!

[Sleeper]

Thank you Steve.

I think i will wait until the bird fair as at least they can't run away coupled with the fact that you are speaking to a person face to face, and as a retailer myself, I would hate to be seen as giving poor service.

PS " the next three day"?

[scampo]

Well... Easter... Good News and all that if you're into that kind of thing!

[Sleeper]

True, and even better since I have got four straight days hol! Like you say got to be good news.

[Ragna]

Sleeper. how bad is your focusing wheel and how much worse has it got since youve had them as mine is a little bit notchey? when fine focusing,But i have got used to it and it doesnt seem to much of a problem but i would not want it to get much worse.

[Sleeper]

Hi Ragna

I have had the optics since Oct/Nov 03 so not that long.

I myself have noted the notchy feel to the wheel but I was aware of this as it is even detectable in my fathers trinovids.

The "play" in the whell has now reached approx 1mm of nil resistance particularly when the bit of raised strip of rubber that is on the wheel is facing straight up.

Is it just me or when something is found not just right do you focus in on this and perhaps worry a bit to much or should a product at this end (any product) of the market be spot on?

It is a situation as I am a liitle concerned that this problem with the wheel could well turn into a problem that cannot be fixed by Leica in a short term as this should have been picked up on QC.

how do your Bins fare ragna?

[Ragna]

Stephen i think ive got a simular amount of slack on fine focus as you have.This is on right to left and only when fine focusing,does'nt seem to notice as much on left to right.This does'nt seem to have got any worse since i've had them(2 months).But like you if i go to the Birdfair in August i'll mention it to the Leica reps to see what they say,it will also be a chance to try a pair on there stand which i would think would be perfect.I think this is only a slight niggle it what i think are perfect binoculars.

[tomreid24]

I've used leica repair service only once and from posting bins to receiving them fully repaired took six days.I call that a more than excellent service and it was less than a year ago.I've recently purchased the 8x42 BR and find the focus wheel super smooth.There's no sticky or notchety movement at all (yet).These bins are the best to fit my hands I've had.The large eyepiece lenses give fatique free viewing and i would say they are marginally brighter than the trinovids and swaro's.
Tom.

[Ragna]

Thomas glad to hear you have no problem with your focusing wheel.It is possible that both sleeper and myself may have a slight problem with ours and if we take them to Leica at the birdfair they can take a look at our problem?also by then i may have had a try of someone elses to compare.

[zurtfox]

regarding the focus wheel.......yes!!!! The wheel does have slight play which is apparent when the wheel is being turned in one direction and then immediately turned the opposite. I can detect this slight nil focus section in between the two focus movements.


The focus wheel was a contributory factor for me selling my Ultravid 8x42 (optically, I found them inferior to my partners Nikon HG 8x32). I found that when trying to focus 'slowly' at the nearest end of the focus range, the wheel became stiffer to move, and at one point (and only in one direction), 'stuttered' rather than turn smoothly. I spoke to Leica technical who said that a small amount of play is normal, but they had had no other complaints about the focussing. To give them their due, they offered to take them back and check/overhaul them, but after only 6 weeks and 800 ukp I
cut my losses and they went.

[Colin]

This thread has really interested me. Some months ago in another thread which was discussing the top of the range binnies, I stated that I did not like Leica because although optically they are really good, the engineering on the focusing wheel was awful. I have tried several pairs including some belonging to my friends and there is a tiny bit of slack in the wheel which to my mind makes it not very exact with the fine focussing. Another forum member made a strong remark against me when I described the wheel as awful. It seems that I may be not alone in this finding after all. Incidentally some of my friends agreed that there was some slack in the mechanism but they had not noticed it until I had bought it to their attention.

Second point. I may be wrong here but one of the factors why In Focus do not sell Leica may well be the small profit margin because I believe that In Focus have an agreement with The Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust (where many of their outlets are situated) that a percentage of the takings goes to them which would effectively make the profit margin even smaller.

[trealawboy]

I have heard several reasons from several InFocus salesmen, and there is a common theme or two. I heard twice that InFocus were unimpressed with the responsiveness of Leica to service issues. (Not honouring the guarantee when some binoculars flooded was one 'story'.) I heard once that the margin given by Leica (i.e. profit) was too small. I heard on another occasion that InFocus bought a large stock of Leica kit, and were hit badly (lost a lot of money) when Leica then lowered the RRP. That last story is at least consistent with the low profit margin story.

The problem is that these are all second hand 'stories' and you never know who started them and why. The low profit margin lineat least has the ring of truth about it.


I can also confirm the report "I heard once that the margin given by Leica (i.e. profit) was too small", as this was said to me at the Slimbridge In Focus shop last August.

[Ragna]

Had the chance to try out 3 or 4 other pairs of Ultravids at Portland Bill B.O. this weekend and all seemed to have slight play in the focusing wheel,although all their owners had'nt noticed this.As regards Leica service a friend left his 8x40s with Leica at last years Birdfair for a clean and service and got them back 10 days later,that does'nt seem like bad service to me.Nikon had my 4500 for over a month just to remap a dead pixel and this included me taking them back and collecting ,and they were'nt to helpful.

[Sleeper]

So

All does not seem to good then?

Would this be classed as something that we are going to have to accept then? Is there any point in sending the bins away if this is an "acceptable" fault come design flaw?

Maybe overeaction but i feel a little dissapointed if i have to accept this play in the wheel. mmmmmmmm

Is it really worth having the bins opened up to be put back together again with possibly the same problem arising? Will leica "fix" the problem for future manufactured pairs. I guess Leica will be more dissapointed than any individual will be though if it becomes apparent that adjustments need to be made.

[scampo]

Second point. I may be wrong here but one of the factors why In Focus do not sell Leica may well be the small profit margin because I believe that In Focus have an agreement with The Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust (where many of their outlets are situated) that a percentage of the takings goes to them which would effectively make the profit margin even smaller.
I think another reason why they don't (but I still think they should...) is owing to the cost of holding such a significantly expensive stock item with a relatively slow stock turnover.

[scampo]

Nikon had my 4500 for over a month just to remap a dead pixel and this included me taking them back and collecting, and they weren't too helpful.And although they fixed my CP4500 within a week and have been very helpful on the phone, it looks as if I've got to wait at least another fortnight (which will make the best part of two months or more) to get my scope back from Nikon. Apparently, they are out of stock of spare ED82 lens hoods - what?!?

[Ragna]

Steve we know this is a fairly new scope but i would have thought Nikon should have a couple of lens hoods in stock.Also stock of parts (camera spares etc) should be arriving every day so to take so long to get the lens hood is rather poor.I think this is why Swarovski are so highly rated as their after sales service is said to be the best.

[Leif]

I think another reason why they don't (but I still think they should...) is owing to the cost of holding such a significantly expensive stock item with a relatively slow stock turnover.

Despite what thee and me might think of Leica, I would have thought that they would fly out of the door if InFocus stocked them. I see loads of Leica kit about.

[mike60]

I have also tried at least 4 pairs of 8x42 ultravids and found the focus to be not very smooth, and to have a tiny amount of 'play'. I dont like the feel, but would accept it given they are all the same. All of the pairs I tried seemed very consistent in this regard, which is a good thing I suppose. Its obviously built in as part of their design. I have noticed that a pair of Zeiss I have owned for around 10 years started out with no play, and ended up with very slight play in one direction. Some people may consider that a fault has crept in, and get them repaired. I dont at this stage. I was wondering if Leica build in the 'play' because it suits their manufacturing tolerances, and to ensure the mechanics do not noticebly change over the years for their customers - thereby generating warrantee work? Another thought i've had is that it may be to do with allowing easy operation at temperature extremes?

[scampo]

Steve we know this is a fairly new scope but i would have thought Nikon should have a couple of lens hoods in stock.Also stock of parts (camera spares etc) should be arriving every day so to take so long to get the lens hood is rather poor.I think this is why Swarovski are so highly rated as their after sales service is said to be the best.
My experience of Swaro is limited but as you suggest. I do think Nikon have let themselves down. I have had super quick service from Zeiss, too

[scampo]

Despite what thee and me might think of Leica, I would have thought that they would fly out of the door if InFocus stocked them. I see loads of Leica kit about.
Well, like you really, we both think a lot of Leica so I wouldn't be surprised but, that said, I think if profit was that easily made, In Focus would be making it. Maybe they've fallen out or something in the past.

[postcardcv]

Well, like you really, we both think a lot of Leica so I wouldn't be surprised but, that said, I think if profit was that easily made, In Focus would be making it. Maybe they've fallen out or something in the past.

That's certainly what I've been told - I think that the choice is no longer with In Focus on this matter.

As for the service that Leica provide - had a problem with my Duovids and so returned them to Leica. They decided to replace rather than repair them (so shiny new bins for me) - they may not be the fastest but I've no complaints.

[scampo]

How I envy you living in Norfolk now that the migration is in full swing! Will you be going to see the orioles when they arive?

[dogfish]

[QUOTE=mike60]I have also tried at least 4 pairs of 8x42 ultravids and found the focus to be not very smooth, and to have a tiny amount of 'play'.
/QUOTE]

For what it's worth, I've had pair of 8x 42 Ultravids for a couple of months; if there is any play in the focus it must be microscopic. However, the focus is not as smooth as it should be on bins costing over £800. It isn't in any way 'notchy' on mine, as others have reported, but it is just a little rough when it comes to fine-focusing. It seems from Mike's posting that this is the way they all are, and certainly my previous pair of Leicas (8x32BN) were a bit rough too. Not good enough really is it?
I bought a pair of the early 10x42 Swarovskis, and the focusing dried up, a common fault on the early models. They've just been returned to me from the factory in Austria (after five weeks) and the focusing is now remarkably smooth (ie, better than it ever was). I believe Swav are using another lubricant. Perhaps Leica has a problem that may be solved by a trip to the factory. Mine are OK now, but if the focusing gets any worse I'll be sending them off.

Sean

[postcardcv]

How I envy you living in Norfolk now that the migration is in full swing! Will you be going to see the orioles when they arive?

I certainly will be - they are always great to see and you often get other nice stuff at the same site. I only moved to Norfolk a couple of years ago and the main reason was so that I could get out birding more.

[scampo]

I have a birding pal who wants to do the same. What a county!

[Sleeper]

I was out birding with my father at the weekend and I had the oportunity to try out my fathers trinovid 8x42bn. I had mentioned the slight play in the wheel to him previously so he handed his over and i was surprised to find that the trinovids had exactly the same amount of play.

So it seems the "flaw" is a leica trait then. Anybody else noticed this?

I can't tell you how my father was gob smacked! Come to think of it I have not heard from him since.

[mike60]

Stephen, I recently noticed exactly the same thing in Leica 8x20 focusing mechanism.

[John N]

Hi Sleeper. The play in my wifes trinovid 8x32bn is the same as the play in my ultravids.

[Marvin Collins]

I got my 10x42 Ultravids from Eagle Optics in March. At the time I noticed a small amount of "play" but ignored it due to the great optics and feel. Yesterday I took my old B&L Elites out for a day and I'm ready to send the Leicas back for review. I can live with a small amount of play (somebody said a millimeter, which seems about right) but this focus wheel is sticky (notchy?). Its not that it is hard to go from one range to another, it just doesn't slide smoothly. The B&N focus wheel feels like its immersed in warm butter. Anybody actually send their bins back to Leica for this problem?

[Marvin Collins]

Just tried a friend's Trinovids. He swears by Leica and convinced me to order the Ultravids to begin with. His focussing wheel is just as stiff as mine. So, the optics are great, and the overall feel of the Ultravids is excellent. I prefer the smoother feel of the focusing wheel of the B&L Elites although I like the somewhat longer focusing distance (a little over one complete turn near to far) of the Ultravids. Sigh - the quest for perfection continues. I'm using the Elites for butterflies (closer focussing) and the Leicas for birds and I'm pretty much satisfied.

[pruitthall]

Whereas I'm not nearly as technical as about 95% of the forum, I do notice things as much. And on the focus wheel issue: I have two Leicas: Trinovid 10x50s and Ultravid 8x42s. Both have 'stiffer' focus wheels than Swaro EL and Nikon HG (Venturer) focus wheels I've used on my friends bins. I'll even agree with one poster who stated it felt in the order of 1 mm or so; I think that's fairly accurate. That said, I have NEVER observed this affecting my focus one bit; not even a 1mm bit. When I have the glass to my face and am focusing (fast or slow, near or far) what my finger inputs, I see, it's as simply as that. I've never had a problem with fine focusing, creep, an inability to lock into focus a bird, NOTHING. Guess what I'm saying is I DO think it must be a Leica 'thing' with having stiff focus wheels. Sure hasn't affected my birding, nor my appreciation of the Ultra's superb optics and unbelievable light weight.

Two other points. One, I simply haven't seen in any post/review as an item of note, but I notice it. Having been used to the Trinovids, I certainly applaud Leica for the Ultras fantastic weight reduction program; these are seriously light bins. But they're also seriously SMALL bins, too. I'm an average sized male (5'6", 150 pounds; maybe even smaller-than-average) and I swear, these bins are SMALL in my hands; almost to the point of being TOO small. Maybe I'm just used to my hulking 10x50 Trinovids, but when holding the Ultras, even with the new thumb rests on the bottom, I do notice my thumbs bumping into each other a lot; might be something to try out on a pair if you're ever considering the Ultras. Certainly not a biggie, but a point nonetheless.

My other point is Leica service. My first pair of Ultras (serial # in the 1555xxx range) actually had a loose armor coating; felt as if it wasn't 'glued' down properly to the magnesium casing, around the thumb rest position on the left barrel. It wasn't a noticeable bubble, but I felt it 'could' become one and at the price of these bins, I thought I'd call Leica. It didn't take Leica US 10 seconds to say, 'Send 'em back' and in 10 days, I had a perfect pair of new ones (without the loose armor). I can't say enough about how well they treated me, in this day and age of lack-of-customer service, Leica US clearly took care of one of their own.

Overall, I'm extremely pleased with my Ultras; the focus wheel issue is a NON issue with me, but that may be just a comfort level with using Leica wheels for some time. The optics continue to blow me away. Bins are so subjective in how each individual perceives an image. I totally agree with all of the forum members who instruct us to 'use what works for you'... I can't add anything to that except that the 'wow' factor that I had the first day I hoisted Leica glass to my eyes. I still can remember that day! I tested Nikons, Swaros and Zeiss on the same day at my local camera shop and when I put the Leicas to my eyes, it was surreal to me. I guess that drives a lot of us too, never forgetting that first glass that moved you into the 'serious' stage of optics; I know I'll never forget mine. So, yes, I may be a Leica-phile, hardcore, but I think we never forget our first love :)

[Curtis Croulet]

I've also posted comments about the Ultravid in (where else?) the "Zeiss Victory FL" thread. I'm not really clear what you're saying about the focus. When I tried an 8x42 Ultravid in a shop just a few days ago, I found that the focus required a millinewton of extra force just to get the focus wheel turning. Once rolling, it was easy and reasonably smooth, but the smidgen of friction to be overcome just to get the wheel turning was a nuisance. I suppose one could get used to it, but I thought the focus was unworthy of binoculars that expensive. I'm about your size, and I have small hands, and I found the Ultravid to be a good fit for my hands. My current binoculars are Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class 8x42, and the Ultravid felt very similar in my hands -- which is good. The Ultravid is heavier than the EORPC.

[hinnark]

Whereas I'm not nearly as technical as about 95% of the forum, I do notice things as much.

I have also a Trinovid 10x50 BN and have try many Ultravids. There was never a play. The focus wheel is big enough to let 2 fingers work together with perfect controll. I always felt Leica Focus is the optimum. Swaro is too slow, Nikon HG too fast and Zeiss copied Leica.

[Curtis Croulet]

The Ultravid I tried had a tiny, tiny bit of play, but I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't first read about it here. I could not fault the Ultravid on this issue. Really, I may yet buy the Ultravid, but I want to see the new Zeiss Victory FL first.

[lvn600]

Not having seen this thread I went to test out Leica 8x42's. They definitely had play in the wheel. I did think that they had a sharper/clearer view than the swaro's I tried though.

[Curtis Croulet]

It's interesting seeing my own comment from almost a year ago. My memory has made the "play" into a big deal, and I wouldn't know that I ever felt differently if my own words hadn't been thrown back at me. BTW, I wound up buying the Zeiss FL. I do wonder how I'd feel about the Leica's focus now.