Blackbird not rearing a brood for 3 years - why?

[Birdy Trish]

I've been asked this question and don't know the answer. Here is what happened. Blackbirds have nested in the same nest for 3 years. Every year the nest fails. This is what the lady says -

The same blackbird that has been nesting for the past three years in the beguinning of March in the same spot in the same bush in my garden. Invariably every year the nest fails. This March the nest was abandoned with one egg in it. The blackbird was still around.
I have noticed that there are a lot of sparrows in the garden steeling all the food and gorging down the mealworms in a few minutes, so I was wondering if it's possible at all that they destroy the eggs.

What else could be causing a nest to fail 3 years in a row. .

I don't know the answer and wondered if anyone else had any knowledge.

[ChrisKten]

I've been asked this question and don't know the answer. Here is what happened. Blackbirds have nested in the same nest for 3 years. Every year the nest fails. This is what the lady says -

The same blackbird that has been nesting for the past three years in the beguinning of March in the same spot in the same bush in my garden. Invariably every year the nest fails. This March the nest was abandoned with one egg in it. The blackbird was still around.
I have noticed that there are a lot of sparrows in the garden steeling all the food and gorging down the mealworms in a few minutes, so I was wondering if it's possible at all that they destroy the eggs.

What else could be causing a nest to fail 3 years in a row. .

I don't know the answer and wondered if anyone else had any knowledge.

I think I remember reading that 9 out of 10 nesting attempts of birds that nest in the open (like Blackbirds) fail.

The most common reasons for failure are cold weather, inexperienced birds deserting the nest, and predators (Cats, Crows, etc). I've never heard of Sparrows destroying eggs.

You may want to wait for someone more knowledgeable to reply, as I'm no expert.

[Birdy Trish]

Thanks for replying. Maybe there are different reasons for each failed attempt. I've found out that blackbirds only live two or three years. I wondered if they were different blackbirds nesting each year, but my friend says it is the same ones. Your information is very informative so thanks.

[gradders52]

I've been asked this question and don't know the answer. Here is what happened. Blackbirds have nested in the same nest for 3 years. Every year the nest fails. This is what the lady says -

The same blackbird that has been nesting for the past three years in the beguinning of March in the same spot in the same bush in my garden. Invariably every year the nest fails. This March the nest was abandoned with one egg in it. The blackbird was still around.
I have noticed that there are a lot of sparrows in the garden steeling all the food and gorging down the mealworms in a few minutes, so I was wondering if it's possible at all that they destroy the eggs.

What else could be causing a nest to fail 3 years in a row. .

I don't know the answer and wondered if anyone else had any knowledge.

I'm no expert, but from personal experience, I understand Blackbirds will make more than one nest at the same time, perhaps using more than one intially... maybe yours is a 'bluff' for the 'real nest'? Dunno, anyone else?

Indeed I have many blackbirds (and nests) around my garden (one in the montana, and one in the climbing hydrenga (with one across the road, and one behind me!) and so far the only one that has raised young is the one out the back. (I've seen two young... so likliehood is, other young (usually 4 or 5) already killed by predators... as previous years... cats... seen).

Who's removing the nest? If the original nest fails, this must be being moved and a new one then built in the same location? Perhaps leaving the old nest will prevent them using the location and find somewhere better?

And yes the biggest problem for them being disturbed are cats and magpies!

Blackbird warning calls are regular here, and usual alarm calls are for cat and magpie. In urban setting, see a blackbird sending warning call and you'll find a cat or a magpie close by. Only two days ago, magpie sat in tree with male blackbird going ballistic at it, two feet away! Blackbirds regularly 'mob' magpies here. I've also noticed magpies being clever as they are, often 'clock' the movement of the blackbirds and see them building the nest, only to pay it 'a visit', or two and that's it, mum blackbird moves off, permanently (usually with Dad blackbird going mad at the magpie, but magpie just ignore them). We have loadsa of blackbirds around here, and loadsa magpies (19 in one tree at one point!).

But others may know better.

[Birdy Trish]

I'm sure other people don't know better.

19 magpies in one tree. How can garden birds survive when there are magpies and cats killing them.

I belong to a group called Song Bird Survival. In their summer magazine is an article about 'keeping cats indoors, save wildlife' . There is also an article discussing the culling of magpies.

Also, spiny garden shrubs protect nests from magpies. Hawthorn is a good one to plant

Songbirds can't defend themselves from predators. There must be ways we can help them

[totaljohn]

I'm sure other people don't know better.

19 magpies in one tree. How can garden birds survive when there are magpies and cats killing them.

I belong to a group called Song Bird Survival. In their summer magazine is an article about 'keeping cats indoors, save wildlife' . There is also an article discussing the culling of magpies.

Also, spiny garden shrubs protect nests from magpies. Hawthorn is a good one to plant

Songbirds can't defend themselves from predators. There must be ways we can help them
good heavens! really? 19 in one tree? you do realise they roost communally?

and besides.. more pressing an issue; what are the implications of seeing 19 magpies at once? i don't even think the rhyme got that far. best head for holy ground at first light, i fear an ill wind blows in the north east.

[Cheshire Birder]

The same blackbird that has been nesting for the past three years in the beguinning of March in the same spot in the same bush in my garden. Invariably every year the nest fails. This March the nest was abandoned with one egg in it. The blackbird was still around.
I have noticed that there are a lot of sparrows in the garden steeling all the food and gorging down the mealworms in a few minutes, so I was wondering if it's possible at all that they destroy the eggs.

What else could be causing a nest to fail 3 years in a row. .

I don't know the answer and wondered if anyone else had any knowledge.

The beginning of March is quite early for Blackbird (but not uncommon). Apart from Magpies, Cats, etc. already suggested I would add the weather. It may have a had a part in the desertion of the nest. The birds may be young or inexperienced which may also cause problems with nest failure.

CB

[TheSeagull]

I'm sure other people don't know better.

19 magpies in one tree. How can garden birds survive when there are magpies and cats killing them.

I belong to a group called Song Bird Survival. In their summer magazine is an article about 'keeping cats indoors, save wildlife' . There is also an article discussing the culling of magpies.

Also, spiny garden shrubs protect nests from magpies. Hawthorn is a good one to plant

Songbirds can't defend themselves from predators. There must be ways we can help them

Oh dear, I really wouldn't be a member of Song Bird Survival if I were you. There's been numerous threads on them and I won't bring it up here but I really think you should read up on them more.
Personally the only think that I would protect Songbirds from is human-introduced predators like the Domestic Cat. You should leave all other predators alone, it is nature, they have evolved together.

[Chris Belcher]

The information we need is " at what point does the nest fail?"
If the eggs are not hatching then it could be weather - unlikley as other birds will succeeed, an infertile parent - so that the eggs have no chance!
Are there empty shells around or no sign of them? If the latter then a predator removing the eggs - rats or grey squirrel?
If the eggs hatch and the fledglings nevers survive then again as the other posts a predator most likely. If the dead bodies are there then weather either by cold or affecting the food supply.

As for song bird survival... okay to protest/protect against cats, magpies and rats, possibly against fox and grey squirrel but stoats weasels, sparrowhawks etc let them be!

[ChrisKten]

Oh dear, I really wouldn't be a member of Song Bird Survival if I were you. There's been numerous threads on them and I won't bring it up here but I really think you should read up on them more.
Personally the only think that I would protect Songbirds from is human-introduced predators like the Domestic Cat. You should leave all other predators alone, it is nature, they have evolved together.

Totally agree, Calvin. Although I'll just add "opportunistic" predators (Corvids) to the "leave them be, they are not evil" list if I may.

[ChrisKten]

The information we need is " at what point does the nest fail?"
If the eggs are not hatching then it could be weather - unlikley as other birds will succeeed, an infertile parent - so that the eggs have no chance!
Are there empty shells around or no sign of them? If the latter then a predator removing the eggs - rats or grey squirrel?
If the eggs hatch and the fledglings nevers survive then again as the other posts a predator most likely. If the dead bodies are there then weather either by cold or affecting the food supply.

As for song bird survival... okay to protest/protect against cats, magpies and rats, possibly against fox and grey squirrel but stoats weasels, sparrowhawks etc let them be!

Agree, apart from "magpies", and "fox" in your last sentence. I would be very interested to know how people differentiate between Raptor and Corvid. Why is it OK for a Sparrowhawk to eat a Bird alive, but not OK for a Magpie to eat an egg or young/sick bird? Both species are doing what is natural, it's all naturally balanced, isn't it?

[TheSeagull]

Totally agree, Calvin. Although I'll just add "opportunistic" predators (Corvids) to the "leave them be, they are not evil" list if I may.

They were included in "predators" ;)

[ChrisKten]

They were included in "predators" ;)

I knew that, but I had a feeling others might not.|=)|

There really do seem to be people who see Corvids as somehow different. It's almost as if they believe Raptors kill to survive, Corvids kill for fun.

Like I touched on in the post before this, I really don't understand the distinction.

[Tero]

Crows may look like "playing" with a victim, but I think it is simply that they are not that interested in a particular animal or bird. If they manage to kill it without injury to themselves, they get a meal. So they may spend more time, not like the hawks putting a swift end to the prey.

[fugl]

Why is it OK for a Sparrowhawk to eat a Bird alive, but not OK for a Magpie to eat an egg or young/sick bird? Both species are doing what is natural, it's all naturally balanced, isn't it?

Yes, ain’t anthropomorphizing wonderful? Here in the States it’s cowbirds—sneaks that lay eggs in other birds’ nests--that are singled out for particular censure by bird lovers. Corvids, on the other hand (except when major agricultural pests)—which eat song bird nestlings, often feeding them alive to their own young—tend to be given a free ride, nowadays, while birds-of-prey, with their bold free-booting ways, are positively admired.

And when it comes to “aliens” (quelle horreur!) such as starlings & house sparrows with their despicable habit of evicting “natives” from their “homes”, why Hell hath no fury. . ..

[ChrisKten]

Yes, ain’t anthropomorphizing wonderful? Here in the States it’s cowbirds—sneaks that lay eggs in other birds’ nests--that are singled out for particular censure by bird lovers. Corvids, on the other hand (except when major agricultural pests)—which eat song bird nestlings, often feeding them alive to their own young—tend to be given a free ride, nowadays, while birds-of-prey, with their bold free-booting ways, are positively admired.

And when it comes to “aliens” (quelle horreur!) such as starlings & house sparrows with their despicable habit of evicting “natives” from their “homes”, why Hell hath no fury. . ..

I've seen examples in this forum of the hatred, and I use that word advisedly, for House Sparrows in the US. Often it sounds like these people are reading from some website, or copying their parents. It doesn't sound like their hatred is based on experience. But of course, that's just my opinion, I couldn't possibly know.

One thing that I do "know", is that this year has been even better than previous years for juveniles.

There are more House Sparrows and Starlings in my garden this year, but there are also more Magpies and Jays (Jays being far "worse" than Magpies for killing young IME). The Sparrowhawks still take birds as well. I don't scare off predators (apart from Pet Cats), yet the numbers of potential prey birds are increasing, not declining. Doesn't make sense, does it? Well it does to me, it's Nature.|=)|

[fugl]

I've seen examples in this forum of the hatred, and I use that word advisedly, for House Sparrows in the US.

Me too, real visceral hatred of a kind, I must admit, that presses all my buttons. I’ve often wondered what the roots of it are. Maybe it’s just that, like most(?) people, the average nature lover needs something to hate?. An analogous case on your side of the pond, I suppose, is the ferocity with which many people regard the American Gray Squirrel.

None of this is to say that I necessarily object to culling & other control measures taken against invasives; I just don’t think one has to work oneself up into a fury as a preliminary.

[ChrisKten]

Me too, real visceral hatred of a kind, I must admit, that presses all my buttons. I’ve often wondered what the roots of it are. Maybe it’s just that, like most(?) people, the average nature lover needs something to hate?. An analogous case on your side of the pond, I suppose, is the ferocity with which many people regard the American Gray Squirrel.

None of this is to say that I necessarily object to culling & other control measures taken against invasives; I just don’t think one has to work oneself up into a fury as a preliminary.

I think there must be something wrong with me, I just can't hate any Wildlife (people are a different story entirely |=)|). As for the Squirrels, I feed them Monkey Nuts. I welcome them into my garden and find them fascinating to watch. They have helped me understand a bit more about Pigeons, as the Pigeons bully the Squirrels (they threaten them with a wing slap) to make them drop the nuts they are eating.

Anyway, that's dragged this thread way off-topic, time for me to go and clean up the garden.