Help choosing my new scope

[mickporter]

I am in the market for a new scope. I recently attended InFocus at Martin Mere. The guy there was excellent, very patient and no pressure. He set up several scope for me, including Opticron and Nikons.

I quickly got rid of all except the Opticron and Nikon scopes. I want the ED glass versions, to help my watching combined with digiscoping with my Nikon 4500 camera. I presently use a fairly cheap Kowa 602 scope which has done excellent service and I have had my moneys worth out of, but which does show its shortfailings when used with my camera. (Amplified by my crap photography!)

I was very impressed with both scopes and found it difficult to separate them. I particularly liked the clarity and DOV of the Nikon and its 82mm objective. What I did find difficult was the focusing. I am used to focusing using a small wheel, which moves the focus by small amounts easily allowing me to focus in very finely and easily. The Nikon has this big helical focusing wheel which I have to say I found it hard to fine focus!!

I would choose the Nikon scope if I was sure I could get along with this. I would hate to spend this money and then find I cannot fine focus it properly. I know you guys use the scope and obviously wouldnt be sat there with blurred images in front of you. So I am looking to be convinced that all will come good with practice!!!!!! Please can you give me your experiences with this.

Also the lenses are an odd mushroom shape. Will my camera easily attach and be safe using the correct adaptor with my eagle eye digi adaptor??

And last but not least, lenses! I am tempted to buy the zoom because of its flexibility. But do I really want to zoom to 60+?? I never have before (although I couldn't anyway.) Would I be better with a fixed lense, and maybe adding to this when I could afford? If so should I use a 20x or 30x??

A lot to ask you guys and gals I know, but as I said this is a lot of money I am spending and I can't afford to make a mistake.

Mick

[Jane Turner]

Conversely I find the big focusing wheel easier - especially in cold weather out in the field. I've had no trouble digiscoping with the 78 ED.

I'm not a fan of zoom lenses. The 30x wide angle is a stunning lens and the limit you'd probably want to use digiscoping anyway. Other people are fans however...!

[william j clive]

Conversely I find the big focusing wheel easier - especially in cold weather out in the field. I've had no trouble digiscoping with the 78 ED.

I'm not a fan of zoom lenses. The 30x wide angle is a stunning lens and the limit you'd probably want to use digiscoping anyway. Other people are fans however...!


I too use the ED 78. I use an old style eyepiece that gives 20x on a Nikon 60mm and 25x on the 78mm scope. I find that this gives satisfactory results when digiscoping, much better than the 38x that I have also tried with the Coolpix 4500.

Clive

[pauco]

Hi Mick, I can only speak as i find. I use optricon scope with HDF 16-48x zoom and find the flexibility very good also sharp. was a bit wary at first but glad i took the plunge, bought last year at in-focus Martin-Mere, just upgraded my bins to Opticrons DBA 8-42 at in focus.
bert.

[bill lord]

I am in the market for a new scope. I recently attended InFocus at Martin Mere. The guy there was excellent, very patient and no pressure. He set up several scope for me, including Opticron and Nikons.

I quickly got rid of all except the Opticron and Nikon scopes. I want the ED glass versions, to help my watching combined with digiscoping with my Nikon 4500 camera. I presently use a fairly cheap Kowa 602 scope which has done excellent service and I have had my moneys worth out of, but which does show its shortfailings when used with my camera. (Amplified by my crap photography!)

I was very impressed with both scopes and found it difficult to separate them. I particularly liked the clarity and DOV of the Nikon and its 82mm objective. What I did find difficult was the focusing. I am used to focusing using a small wheel, which moves the focus by small amounts easily allowing me to focus in very finely and easily. The Nikon has this big helical focusing wheel which I have to say I found it hard to fine focus!!


Mick

I was at Martin mere three weeks ago doing exactly the same as you were doing and I was similarly uncertain about the Nikon Ed 82 and the Opticron HS 80 ED . But I could see a lot of chromatic problems on the Opticron that just were not there on the Nikon. I had previously priced a Nikon 78 ED from Warehouse Express at £730 as aopposed to the Opticrons £550 and finally chose to try the Nikon 78ED knowing that I could send it back within 7 days if I was not happy. I was happy and find that the only real differences between the Nikon you saw and the one I saw were that the 82 is waterproof and the 78 is water resistant, plus the 82 comes with a stay on case where the 78 comes with a carry case ( I'm now looking for a Stay on case ). I cannot recommend Warehouse Express enough, I ordered on a Tuesday, it arrived on Wednesaday at 9.30 only by this time I had found something out that they had not been aware of and asked for an angled scope as opposed to the straight one they had sent, no problems new scope here by Thursday 9.30 and the straight one returned on the carrier at no cost to me, oh and we'll reduce the price of the angled scope by £20 for you for our mistake. Brilliant service.
I found the Opticron easier to focus in the shop but having used the Nikon I now have no problems at all with it and I get happier with it by the day.
Digiscoping is easy with it, and I can see no reason why the Eagle Eye adapter should not fit and be secure.

[scampo]

I am in the market for a new scope...

A lot to ask you guys and gals I know, but as I said this is a lot of money I am spending and I can't afford to make a mistake.

MickI'm in the lucky position at the moment of having access to the new Nikon 82, Zeiss 85 and Swaro 65HD. The Nikon's ultra-fast focusing can be a real boon at times, and it works a treat with their stay-on case, but it takes a week or two to get used to its higher geared ratio. The Zeiss has twin focusing wheels - I find I only use the "fine" wheel and, again, soon get used to it. The Zeiss has such a wide angle zoom that, if you haven't tried it, please do before you decide (In Foucus sell it). The Swaro focusing is like the Nikon's but much less highly geared - which is a bit of a pain when you're used to the Nikon, but again absolutely fine after an hour or so. You'll get used to the nikon, I have no doubt. I've met quite a few Nikon owners - of the 82 and 60 - and all seem to sing the praises of the scope. It is a delight but the focusing can need care at 60-75x as it focuses very quickly indeed - a strength and a weakness.

I have both the zoom and the 30x W. I'm not sure whether or not I'd spend the money on the zoom if I'd bought the scope with the 30xW originally - as good as the zoom unquestionably is, and quite useful at times, that 30x is such a genuine beauty of an eyepiece, so wide, clear and well, like an extension of the natural vision really. Every time I look through it, it catches my attention and makes me think, "Wonderful!". The view through the Nikon has to be amongst the most noticeably clear and faithful that exist on the market. I was using an EDIII (60mm) for a short time recently and that is a true beauty of a scope, so small and solidly made. I should think, as others have said, that you could save money and get the ED78 and still have a wonderful scope - but if the cash is there I'd look closely at the ED82 (as well as the Zeiss 85T*).

I have the Nikon digiscoping adapter which, of course, works a treat (but you have to set the zoom before putting the camera over the eyepiece). I see no reason at all why the Eagle Eye shouldn't, too, but a quick phone call will sort out one way or another - Nikon are very helpful but might not know of the Eagle Eye adapter. Maybe take it along to In Focus - they are a very helpful crowd. I bought mine from their Rutland Water branch, with the 30xW from Titchwell - all the staff were exceptionally helpful.

You say you looked at the Opticron (ES80, I guess) - it is very good indeed for digiscoping, I hear, and I know from experience that it has very fine optics, especially for the price (with ED lenses, too).

[steverowe]

Mick,

I, too, didn't like the focussing. I find I sweep it back and forth over the point of best focus before I'm satisfied. This is hard to do at the higher end of the zoom due to the gearing. But you do get used to it, and according to scampo, the focusing ring gets a little less stiff over time. The Leica focusing, for example, is much nicer to use, but I suppose the Nikon is quicker once you get used to it.The reason I went for the Nikon is because scampo sings its praises so much ;-) Actually it was for the compact size and I liked the idea of a 25-75x zoom. I'm very pleased with the scope and I'm missing it already (had to leave it back in the UK, along with the wife, but I'm not missing her). I don't think you'll be disappointed if you plump for this scope. Except perhaps when the price drops immediately after you've bought it (as happened to me).

Steve

[pduxon]

You say you looked at the Opticron (ES80, I guess) - it is very good for digiscoping, I hear, and has very fine optics, especially for the money. I didn't feel it was as well made or durable as either the Nikon or Zeiss so very clearly are, though.

Would fully agree but its half the price. That's the type of throw away review comment worthy of a certain magazine ;)

[scampo]

True, Peter - and I deserve your reproach. I shall edit the mail in case it's not been read yet. Things done in haste, eh?

I do think very highly of the ES80 (but think Opticron are intent on causing as much confusion as they can over which model is which now...).

[scampo]

Mick,

I, too, didn't like the focussing. I find I sweep it back and forth over the point of best focus before I'm satisfied. This is hard to do at the higher end of the zoom due to the gearing. But you do get used to it, and according to scampo, the focusing ring gets a little less stiff over time. The Leica focusing, for example, is much nicer to use, but I suppose the Nikon is quicker once you get used to it.The reason I went for the Nikon is because scampo sings its praises so much ;-) Actually it was for the compact size and I liked the idea of a 25-75x zoom. I'm very pleased with the scope and I'm missing it already (had to leave it back in the UK, along with the wife, but I'm not missing her). I don't think you'll be disappointed if you plump for this scope. Except perhaps when the price drops immediately after you've bought it (as happened to me).

SteveThat's two jokes against our better halves in one day's posts (it was a joke, wasn't it?).

(-;

I'm glad my advice was helpful Steve. Try my best! (-; (-; Looks as if my son's going to be using the scope soon as I have done a swap around with my brother and now have a Zeiss 85. That Nikon (in with them at the mo for a repair) is an outstanding scope, though, for sure).

[Geoff Brown]

An advantage with the Nikon scope is that if you have a coolpix 4500 then all the Nikon accessories are readily available to easily connect the one to the other for digiscoping

[scampo]

And they connect it beautifully, too.

[mickporter]

Thanks very much guys, very helpful and knowledgeable answers.

I didn't try the Zeiss, I didn't know they sold those, and wasn't shown it. I will ask for a demo. I think probably I will give the Nikon a whizz. At InFocus I can try it for week and if not happy take it back and change it. I have a weeks holiday due during April so that will be an ideal opportunity to test it out.

Thanks for all your help..

Bye the way I contacted eagle eye who because the scope is new were not sure if the lens was different than the predicessors or not. They said either way no problem cause if I send them certain measurements they will create me an insert for my exsisting adaptor at the same price. So no problems there.

[scampo]

The lens is the same shape I think but now has a sliding eye cup.

Do give the Zeiss a trial - you might enjoy the ultra wide zoom eyepiece.

[Ragna]

Mick i am suprised you could not see any difference between the Opticron and Nikon82 as the nikon is twice the price.Iam sure if you had view in difficult lighting conditions then you would notice a difference.You may also like to try the Leica APO77(In Focus dont stock Leica)these with a 30x eyepiece are very well priced at the moment.The 30x eyepice i think is a far better option for digiscoping.

[scampo]

That's the new Opticron, Graham - I think it's quite pricey isn't it? But, like you, I'd be surprised if the Nikon weren't the brighter scope in tough conditions.

[pduxon]

Mick i am suprised you could not see any difference between the Opticron and Nikon82 as the nikon is twice the price.Iam sure if you had view in difficult lighting conditions then you would notice a difference.You may also like to try the Leica APO77(In Focus dont stock Leica)these with a 30x eyepiece are very well priced at the moment.The 30x eyepice i think is a far better option for digiscoping.

Graham, like the rest of us you are assuming he's talking about the ES80 (and if I couldn't tell much difference between that and the Nikon I'd save £500!!) is it possible he's talking about the new HR80?

And Steve - yes Opticrons naming strategy drives me nuts.

[mickporter]

Yes sorry guys to cause confusion but it was the HR80 I was comparing with. It is a little cheaper but not much.....

As I said it was not the brightness that concerned me but the focussing. I really stuggled getting the Nikon into sharp focus. As someone has already said it seemed to go either one way or the other past being in focus. I never really got to compare the brightness properly. I think I may go back and spend more time. This time also compare them with Zeiss. (Although looking at the Zeiss forum above here, it appears to be mainly moans and negative stuff posted!) Then maybe take up the offer of using it for a week and returning it if I am not happy. With what you have said though I should soon get used to it.

One of the great dangers with posting on here like this is that each particular model has its enthusiasts. Its like cameras. People on the Fuji camera forums have a huge rivalary with guys from the Olympus forum. Each will go to great lengths to defend his or her favourite brand. Wars often break out there. To a Fuji fanatic even if they brought out a matchbox with a pinhole in it, so long as it was branded Fuji it would be the best camera in the World. Far better than anything Olympus or Cannon could invent. HEHEHE.

I have to say on here I think you have all been very honest and helpful. Thank you for that. I suppose the real decision has to be a personal one. What one person finds particularly sharp and bright another will see colour fringing and not get on with it. Cost is also a huge factor. Whatever I buy, I have no doubts I will here next week standing its corner against the next bloke who asks my questions... LOL

[scampo]

...
And Steve - yes Opticrons naming strategy drives me nuts.
They're doing themselves no favours, are they? But maybe they think they know what they're doing. It seems to me that in the HR66ED and ES80, they had the basis of a pair of real winners, but instead they dilute the effect by launching yet another scope - with a non-retro fittable zoom, too (if that makes sense).

[scampo]

If you look at Andy Bright's digiscoping forum and website, you'll find he is much in favour of the Zeiss 85T*FL. Also the scope has a number of excellent reviews on the web

http://www.alula.fi/GB/index.htm
http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/optics/optics7.html
http://betterviewdesired.com/bigscopes/index.html

The Zeiss is a very lightweight and compact scope for such a bright objective lens and its zoom is unique in offering about 50% more view at 20x than the next widest, the Swaro zoom. That ought to make it very appealing indeed as locating birds through a narrow field of view is none to easy (would we buy bins with a narrow fov?).

The Nikon ED82 deserves a trial because its image is so bright looking and faithfully clear to nature. I suppose the focusing issue is a plus/minus affair, but really, it soon becomes second nature and the speed of focus can be a delight. The Swaro 80 is, it goes without saying, a fine scope indeed, but at a price (and the Zeiss zoom is, in my view, a better birding zoom owing to its exceptional fov).

[Ragna]

Steve sorry must try and keep up with developments.

[scampo]

Pretty darn impossible with Opticron - I only noticed because of that infamous recent review which tested both their top 80mm scopes.

[iporali]

This time also compare them with Zeiss. (Although looking at the Zeiss forum above here, it appears to be mainly moans and negative stuff posted!)
...
One of the great dangers with posting on here like this is that each particular model has its enthusiasts. Its like cameras. People on the Fuji camera forums have a huge rivalary with guys from the Olympus forum. Each will go to great lengths to defend his or her favourite brand. Wars often break out there. To a Fuji fanatic even if they brought out a matchbox with a pinhole in it, so long as it was branded Fuji it would be the best camera in the World. Far better than anything Olympus or Cannon could invent. HEHEHE.

Mick, I too recommend to take a good look at Zeiss. See the gallery here and you'll see what kind of quality it can deliver. One alternative worth mentioning could be Kowa TSN-823/4 - if you are already familiar with its focusing. I have recently compared it quite a lot with a Swaro AT80HD (w 20-60x zoom) and in terms of resolution, color balance and absence of distortions I would put Kowa slightly ahead of Swaro. IanF has also said that it even compares well with the new Swaro ATS-scope. My only complaints with Kowa has been its relatively short eye relief (using my Spidertech adapter) - but if the rumored new eyepieces (with a lot more eye relief) do materialize this spring, THAT could be an even stronger alternative.

Of course we have strong feelings for our expensive optics, but I have always admired how civilized people here can behave (maybe it is just British ;) ) - compared to almost any other hobby-related discussion groups. I wouldn't be too worried about making a war here between fanboys of Nikon, Swaro, Zeiss, Leica etc.

Ilkka :t:

[Leif]

Mick i am suprised you could not see any difference between the Opticron and Nikon82 as the nikon is twice the price.Iam sure if you had view in difficult lighting conditions then you would notice a difference.You may also like to try the Leica APO77(In Focus dont stock Leica)these with a 30x eyepiece are very well priced at the moment.The 30x eyepice i think is a far better option for digiscoping.

He should indeed take a look at the Leica APO 77, if only because it is quite a bit cheaper than the Zeiss and Swaro, and optically is as good as any (at least to my eyes).

I recently went through the same process of deciding which ~80 scope to buy and to be honest they are all excellent.

I found that the reviews on the net tended to match what I saw when I tried them. Another good review is here:

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/programs/AllAboutBirds/GearGuide/

Here is an older review by the same people:

http://birds.cornell.edu/publications/livingbird/winter98/ScopesWI98.htm#Table

Ignore the BW magazine scopes review: it's both nonsense and technically inaccurate.

One point to note if astronomical use is an option, the Zeiss, and maybe the Swaro, takes 1.25" astronomical eyepieces.

[scampo]

Steve sorry must try and keep up with developments.No, Graham - you're doing what we all should be, I think: getting out there and looking for the little critters!

(-:

[steverowe]

[I'm glad my advice was helpful Steve. Try my best! (-; (-; Looks as if my son's going to be using the scope soon as I have done a swap around with my brother and now have a Zeiss 85. That Nikon (in with them at the mo for a repair) is an outstanding scope, though, for sure).[/QUOTE]


After all that praise for the Nikon, you go and swap it for a Zeiss.


Steve

[pduxon]

They're doing themselves no favours, are they? But maybe they think they know what they're doing. It seems to me that in the HR66ED and ES80, they had the basis of a pair of real winners, but instead they dilute the effect by launching yet another scope - with a non-retro fittable zoom, too (if that makes sense).

They've launched two new 80mm the non ED version of the ES80 (the SD) and the HR80? What non retrofittable zoom? I presume the HR80 can use the standard HDF zoom (pretty sure it does)

To be honest what they should have done is not launch the SD BUT launch a 66mm ES HD.

Did Birdwatching review the HR80? Didn't think they did.

[Ragna]

Pete If they did i did'nt notice it,but then i read it in Smiths(didnt dare buy a copy cause if you lot ad found out id ave been banished from bird forum)So only read the bits that mattered like how good the Swarovski was(only joking bit of a fan of the Leica for the price).

[scampo]

After all that praise for the Nikon, you go and swap it for a Zeiss.

SteveI feel a bit of a traitor but it's not quite as it seems - it's the best compromise. My son's keen on digiscoping and wanted a bigger objective than his Swaro 65 offers (and which my brother was keen to buy). A good offer on the Zeiss was too good to resist and we kind of "share" anyhow! The Nikon is still in for repair so I'm waiting for its return to compare it more thoroughly with the Zeiss. They're all top scopes, though - who'd really complain with any of them? After so many years managing with an old s/h Kowa 60mm I feel pretty lucky to have the choice!

[StevieEvans]

I put off buying a new scope for a good while, untill i'd tried as many scopes in as many field conditions as possible.
Finally opted for the 82mmNikon, i cant fault it.
Im often out at the end of the day & its great in low light conditions, its relatively compact, waterproof etc.

As for the focus, i was initially 'overturning it' but after a few hours was used to it & its second nature now.
The single focus wheel is great when you're scanning a duck/wader flock, its effortless to focus from front to the back of the group as you pan through to the side.
I know its a perhaps overused cliche, but i REALY could see every feather! the first time i looked through one.

(My other half recently got a pair of Nikon 8x32HG's & they are outstanding too.
We've never had Nikon gear before & i'm never loyal to one brand of anything, apart from a certain Baked Bean.)

Hope you Enjoy Your Choice Mick

StevieEvans..

[scampo]

We can't get used to any other baked beans, either! I do wonder why more people don't go for the Nikon. One look through it and it's so clear that it is a top level piece of kit.

[Leif]

We can't get used to any other baked beans, either! I do wonder why more people don't go for the Nikon. One look through it and it's so clear that it is a top level piece of kit.

Maybe your enthusings are converting us all? Last week at an RSPB reserve near Exeter I saw a Nikon scope: maybe the 78mm. This weekend at Barnes, London, I saw two Nikon 82 ED scopes. Nikon must be very sad at your departure to greener pastures. Did Zeiss pay you a lot? 3:-)

[scampo]

Not a penny - I still have the Nikon!!! It's with them for repair at the moment, as I say. When it resurfaces either my son or I will use it and the other one gets the Zeiss! Aren't we the lucky ones, eh?

What I can say is that I am truly enjoying the Zeiss's exceptionally wide fov as I don't have a fixed 30x for it (and I'm not sure it's even needed with such a wide fov in the first place).

[william j clive]

Not a penny - I still have the Nikon!!! It's with them for repair at the moment, as I say. When it resurfaces either my son or I will use it and the other one gets the Zeiss! Aren't we the lucky ones, eh?

What I can say is that I am truly enjoying the Zeiss's exceptionally wide fov as I don't have a fixed 30x for it (and I'm not sure it's even needed with such a wide fov in the first place).

Just to clarify things a little, Scampo, are you in a position to truthfully deny that Steve Ingraham is a new work colleague of yours? :o)


Clive

[william j clive]

Just to clarify things a little, Scampo, are you in a position to truthfully deny that Steve Ingraham is a new work colleague of yours? :o) Clive


Are Zeiss busy recruiting Nikon buffs or what? Leif and I are still waiting for job offers.

[Leif]

Are Zeiss busy recruiting Nikon buffs or what? Leif and I are still waiting for job offers.

Hold on there Clive, I'm not so keen on Bratwurst ... though some of that lovely black bread wouldn't go amiss ... mmm tempting ...

[scampo]

Just to clarify things a little, Scampo, are you in a position to truthfully deny that Steve Ingraham is a new work colleague of yours? :o)


Clive
I had only been superficially aware of that name until a couple of days ago when I joined the Yahoo digiscoping forum. On the same day, Mr Ingraham also joined and directed us all to view his digiscoped images onhis web site. Well, he gave the wrong link and I (and many others, I should think) ended up surfing his family biography site - you should take a look sometime. So, I know quite a lot about him, but not of him. He's an interesting character as you'll discover if you have a peek!

http://www.lightshedder.com

[pduxon]

Pete If they did i did'nt notice it,but then i read it in Smiths(didnt dare buy a copy cause if you lot ad found out id ave been banished from bird forum)So only read the bits that mattered like how good the Swarovski was(only joking bit of a fan of the Leica for the price).

Graham

what will have Scampo foaming is that I'm wrong. Opticron have just launched 3 new 80mm scopes. The ES80 SD, HR80 and the HR80 ED. Why they need the non ED HR80 when it is in competition with the excellent ES80 ED is beyond me.

They are excellent vfm and underappreciated by those who want a name brand but boy do they compilcate things.

Scampi - what is this zoom lens you were on about??????

[scampo]

When I had my brief acquaintance with the ill-fated ES80, there was a brand new HR80 just arrived in stock at In Focus and I was told that it had a new type zoom lens with, if I recall, a twist up eyecup as opposed to the rubber cup of the ES80 zoom. I was told that the new zoom eyepiece didn't fit the ES80 or other Opticron scopes.

The In Focus salesman did not speak highly of the HR80 in as much as it was far heavier than the ES80 and far more expensive. I didn't give it much of a trial but it didn't look any better than the ES80 on a quick look through (not a fair trial, I have to say - and the view was very good indeed); but it really did seem very heavy and the price put it on a par with the Kowa Prominar.

Now, you say there are more models. Whew - what are they up to? I'm always surprised that Leica and Swaro bother with their non-ED models, but Opticron seem to positively delight in confusing their potential customers.

[Ragna]

Pete .Opticron have always been value for money and 17 years ago were a small firm ,now they sell and are known world wide and i see more of their scopes and bins on the reserves than any other but i do think their range is getting to big.Still they do have a large slice of the market so must know what they are doing.

[pduxon]

When I had my brief acquaintance with the ill-fated ES80, there was a brand new HR80 just arrived in stock at In Focus and I was told that it had a new type zoom lens with, if I recall, a twist up eyecup as opposed to the rubber cup of the ES80 zoom. I was told that the new zoom eyepiece didn't fit the ES80 or other Opticron scopes.

The In Focus salesman did not speak highly of the HR80 in as much as it was far heavier than the ES80 and far more expensive. I didn't give it much of a trial but it didn't look any better than the ES80 on a quick look through (not a fair trial, I have to say - and the view was very good indeed); but it really did seem very heavy and the price put it on a par with the Kowa Prominar.



How odd I checked the Opticron website and there is nothing there.

I understand (sort of) why they launched the ES80SD and HR80ED but the HR80 is the same price as the ES80ED. Seems pointless to me but as Graham says they sell them by the bucket load. Although the ones you see most often are the HR66 and the ES80ED

[scampo]

Yes, I have only seen those two regularly - and mainly the ES80. Looking for the red rumped swallow at Swithland res. yesterday, I saw more than a couple of those scopes.

[mickporter]

I have been today and checked out the Nikon, Zeiss and the Swarovski scopes. I liked the Swaro, nice and easy to focus, good colour and very bright even on a dull day like today. That said I looked thru the Zeiss and happened to focus on a robin. It was bright, clear, I could almost hear it singing. It was like looking at it in a bush right in front of me.

I think I have fallen in love with that scope. I am now going to buy a Zeiss 85, with zoom lens, and am also toying with the idea of buying the camera adaptor as well. Thats very expensive at £200, but allows the camera to be connected and swung out of the way when not necessary. Ordinary connectors are messy keep taking the camera off and on. The temptation is to leave the camera there all the time, which of course stops you watching birds. The other advantage is that the camera is connected by its tripod mount and is not depending on the lens threads or the scope lens to hold it on. Much more secure, and in the long run may work out a cheaper option.

Has anyone else tried these connectors?? Nikon make one similar....

[scampo]

It looks a super connector - you'll find more on the Yahoo digiscoping group and on Better view desired (the guy who runs it uses the Zeiss 85 + adapter).

I was comparing my Zeiss 85 with the Swaro 80 today - the Swaro is lovely, but the Zeiss zoom knocks spots of it in terms of field of view.

[mickporter]

Yes the swaro is an extra £200. I wouldn't mind paying that if I could find a good reason. That £200 will buy the adaptor or a fixed lens.

The only thing I can say about the swaro in comparison with the zeiss is that it looks a nicer finish. The zeiss looks a little plasticy (if you know what I mean!) but its only the finish, the quality of both is good. 30 year guarantee, and a good discount at focal point. He has thrown a stay on case in with the deal, if I take the lens and the adaptor.

[scampo]

If you're buying the Zeiss, order the green version - it looks massively better in every way and, of course, costs the same. In fact, while waiting for the stay-on-case, I've had more than a few people commenting on the Zeiss. I don't know why they produce a silver version for birding.

Wait a while before buying the 30x - whislt I wouldn't be without a fixed eyepiece myself, that amazing Zeiss zoom is truly wide compared with any other and you might feel you can get away with the one eyepiece.

[bill lord]

I think I have fallen in love with that scope. I am now going to buy a Zeiss 85, with zoom lens, r....

There's a 3 months old one for sale for £750 with the 20-60 zoom lens included on the secondhand equipment for sale forum, not mine I hasten to add.

[scampo]

Now that's a bargain - you could get the 30xW or a Manfrotto 190 / 055 + 700RC and be set up for life!

[mickporter]

I have got the Zeiss scope, in the traditional grey colour, it seems the green is not available in the UK, or so I am told. I have ordered the adaptor although its not come yet. I will report on that when I get it, it looks a good piece of kit.

Two disappointments were firstly the end cap of the Zeiss is crap. Its one of those clip on camera cap type things. It doesn't fit properly cause it goes up inside the hood, and is really difficult to get your fingers in. Secondly the case. The official Zeiss case is black, well made I have to say, constructed from a sort of cavas material, but it fits the scope like a bag. It is horrible. You cannot get at the focus knobs properly, and it is all baggy and moves around when you put your hands on it the steady the scope. A really bad design. Rumour have it that Zeiss are redesigning it as well. On top of all that it is really expensive compared to other stay on cases. I took mine back and swapped it for an opticron SOC. This one is a little tight, but pulls over the scope with a little effort. Is also black but appears to be made from a more waterproof material. The openings for the tripod plate and focus knobs are easily got at, and the end cover and eyepiece covers clip out of the way when in use. A much much better case than Zeiss's own. It is also half the cost. (I got mine free with the scope).
The only setback is that it has opticron emblazoned on its side. I suppose that is a good security feature may make the scope less desirable to thieves!! Hehehe........

The scope itself is fantastic. I certainly do not regret buying this one.... I have two eyepieces, the 20 - 60 zoom and a 30x fixed eyepiece ex demo model that InFocus were selling off cheap. For digiscoping I haven't found much difference between the two yet, but my digiscoping skills are still in their infancy. I expect the 30x to be brighter in lower light conditions.

[scampo]

Well if it's any consolation, my son had to have the Skua case with his Swaro 65 as there were no Swaro cases available at the time and it is a very poor thing indeed.

Yes - isn't the Zeiss zoom a revelation. Look through it, then any other zoom eyepiece (Swaro, Leica, Opticron and yes, even - dare I say it - Nikon...) and it makes the view through all seem tube-like in comparison. It's a real birding winner of an eyepiece.