Which camera would YOU buy?

[AllanP]

As a new kid on the block, I'm repeatedly knocked out by the quality of some of the pics. posted in the gallery, and drool with envy at some of the equipment being used.

Personally, I've been pretty happy with the Panasonic FZ 50 that I've had for the past two years, but now that it's starting to play up I intend to go DSLR.
Like everybody else - well, almost everybody else, I'm looking for a camera that will produce the goods on figdety little critters who usually bob around in codnitions that resemble a night club. In short, something that will handle low light, have quick focussing capabilty, and high shutter speed to produce sharp shots.......MOST of the time.

I was just about settled on the Canon 50D, but am now considering the heartbreakingly more expensive Nikon 300 because of its '51 point AF system'. As someone whose eyes insist on using the viewfinder rather than an LCD screen, am I talking out of my hat? Does that last criterion preclude the use of the '51 point AF' anyway? And further, will the '51 point AF' actually aid in quickly focusing on small active birds?

Which camera would YOU buy?

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice from those out there who know what they're talking about.

[Cristian Mihai]

Only one advice: don't choose only a camera, choose a combo - camera plus lens. And you'll have to tell us something about your budget...

[tjsimonsen]

Hi Allan,

Don't so much think about which camera you will buy, but which camera system (incl. possible lenses, flash et.c.) you will buy into.

Thomas

[AllanP]

Thank you both. I was planning to spend about A$2500,; but. like all my other ideas I'm already on to plan B - revising upwards, reluctantly - to about A$4000.

Forgive any slow responses by me to your kind advice. I'm so new on this that I couldn't even find my own post. I stumbled upon it, and I still don't quite know how I got here.

Thanks anyway. I'll persevere!

[Roy C]

As a new kid on the block, I'm repeatedly knocked out by the quality of some of the pics. posted in the gallery, and drool with envy at some of the equipment being used.

Personally, I've been pretty happy with the Panasonic FZ 50 that I've had for the past two years, but now that it's starting to play up I intend to go DSLR.
Like everybody else - well, almost everybody else, I'm looking for a camera that will produce the goods on figdety little critters who usually bob around in codnitions that resemble a night club. In short, something that will handle low light, have quick focussing capabilty, and high shutter speed to produce sharp shots.......MOST of the time.

I was just about settled on the Canon 50D, but am now considering the heartbreakingly more expensive Nikon 300 because of its '51 point AF system'. As someone whose eyes insist on using the viewfinder rather than an LCD screen, am I talking out of my hat? Does that last criterion preclude the use of the '51 point AF' anyway? And further, will the '51 point AF' actually aid in quickly focusing on small active birds?

Which camera would YOU buy?

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice from those out there who know what they're talking about.
The Nikon 300 is a fine camera Alan but from a bird photography point of view I would not buy it just because of the 51 point AF as I almost always only use the centre point anyway (so do most birders I suspect).

[Cristian Mihai]

Agree with Roy. From time to time I use another AF point (on the central horizontal line) when I take pics with a bird/insect that is very close and I want to focus on the head of the animal.

[RAH]

I also agree with Roy - those multiple focus points are for the birds (well, actually, NOT for the birds!). For telephoto wildlife photography, you want to focus at ONE point, so you usually use one center-point focusing.

I even set up a small focusing demo which you might like to look at, showing how I am able to focus in the woods with a camera/lens combination that is supposed to "hunt" for focus too much.

http://www.rahsoft.net/spotfocus/index.htm

The ONLY way to take this type of picture is with one focus point. And even in less crowded spots, 1 is still best.

As stated in that demo, these are NOT good pictures, just a demonstration of focusing in a crowded environment. So don't take it as a sample of good Olympus images!

As far as DSLRs, I am an Olympus fan. You get more magnification for your telephoto dollars because of the 2x crop factor with Oly DSLRs (Canon and Nikon have a 1.5x or 1.6x factor). So, for example, a 70-300mm lens on an Oly DSLR becomes a 140-600mm lens. On a Canon or Nikon, it becomes about a 105-450.

[postcardcv]

The Nikon 300 is a fine camera Alan but from a bird photography point of view I would not buy it just because of the 51 point AF as I almost always only use the centre point anyway (so do most birders I suspect).

I totally disagree, I like to be able to select were I want the focus to be so the more AF points I can select from the better. I've not used either the D300 or the 50D in anger (but have played with them in the local shop),so can't really compare them. I'd buy the 50D but only because I already have Canon gear, if I was starting over today I'd probably go for the Nikon.

[Fozzybear]

I totally disagree, I like to be able to select were I want the focus to be so the more AF points I can select from the better. I've not used either the D300 or the 50D in anger (but have played with them in the local shop),so can't really compare them. I'd buy the 50D but only because I already have Canon gear, if I was starting over today I'd probably go for the Nikon.

I agree with that, I use most of the af points on my D300, especially shooting garden birds close up. That said, the 50D and the D300 are both good cameras, you can't go 'too' far wrong choosing either really - check out some reviews to see how they compare and if you can find a shop that has both in stock then try them both out to see which feels better to use - they both have differing control systems and it's a rather personal thing which you prefer.

I'd definitely look at the lens options primarily though - you might find that one system or the other has the lens that fits your needs and makes the decision for you. Would be nothing worse than buying an expensive camera only to find that a different make has the lens that you want!

[RAH]

What I meant was some cameras use multiple focus points at the same time - they average out the focus over a bunch of points. I do not think this would be much good for wildlife.

Having a choice of individual focus points could be handy if you have enough time. Myself, if I want to do that, I usually just focus with the center point, hold the shutter half-way, reframe, and then shoot. Either way is OK assuming you have a lot of time (not with warblers!)

[Fozzybear]

The D300 can use a single AF point with assisting points around it (either 9, 21 or 51 I think) which can be handy at times, gives you a larger target to hit a moving bird, but I like that the switch on the back allows you to instantly flip back to a single AF point if shooting through dense branches where the other mode will get confused.

[Roy C]

I totally disagree, I like to be able to select were I want the focus to be so the more AF points I can select from the better. I've not used either the D300 or the 50D in anger (but have played with them in the local shop),so can't really compare them. I'd buy the 50D but only because I already have Canon gear, if I was starting over today I'd probably go for the Nikon.
What I said was I almost always use the centre point, how you can you disagree with that ? I also said I would not buy the camera because of the 51 AF points - are you telling me I would?
I never said that the OP should not buy it , I said I would not buy it. You can use as many focus points as you like and so can I.

[postcardcv]

What I said was I almost always use the centre point, how you can you disagree with that ? I also said I would not buy the camera because of the 51 AF points - are you telling me I would?
I never said that the OP should not buy it , I said I would not buy it. You can use as many focus points as you like and so can I.

easy there Roy - what I was disagreeing with was your suggestion that most birders use center point only most of the time... if you use center point only then it can be very limiting on your composition. Sure you can lock and re-frame but for a bird on the move it's useful to be able to use AI servo and get the composition I want.

I wasn't suggesting that I know how you do it, or that you should buy a different camera, or that you should use more focus points. Clearly I should have deleted part of your post and only quoted the exact bit I was disagreeing with, my mistake.

[tjsimonsen]

Allan, I haven't used either camera (I use Canon 40D and 350D at the moment). But from what I have read, the D300 seems to be the better camera. That said, I'd probably go for canon if I was starting up. Simply because the wildlife/birding lens selection seems better and/or cheaper.

Thomas

[Neil]

The advantage of the Multiple Focus points is that if the camera is set to Continuous Focus if the bird moves from the Focus Point the lens will continue to follow and focus. This is particularly useful for birds in flight. As bird behaviour is often fast and unpredictable the more focus points the better. You don't see the other focus points, just the Center point (although you can move this around the frame if the subject is not centered ).
For speed of focus the lens speed is very important too, at least an f4 lens but of course f2.8 would be better. Although the Canon 400/5.6 is a very good lens and fast enough for most applications. I wish Nikon had one similar. An excellent combo is the 5DM11 and the 400/5.6 if your budget can stretch to that ( and you get HD video as well ) but the 50D and the 400/5.6 would be a good choice. The Nikon D300 is an excellent camera but you would need the 300/4 AFS lens and the Nikon 1.4x teleconverter to get a similar reach. You need at least 400 mm for general walk-round bird photography. My view is for most bird photography these days you need around 1000 mm which is why many people are going for 500 or 600 or even 800 mm prime lenses with teleconverters. One way to get to this reach is with the Olympus cameras (2x crop in camera ) and a Sigma 150-500/APO lens but Olympus has some excellent fast zooms and teleconverters which will get you out there.
Good luck with your decision, Neil.

[AllanP]

I feel like the swine before which pearls are being cast. Thank you all for your informative contributions. Now, armed with your combined wisdom, I'm off to the shops to get my hands on these big little suckers.

[Roy C]

easy there Roy - what I was disagreeing with was your suggestion that most birders use center point only most of the time... if you use center point only then it can be very limiting on your composition. Sure you can lock and re-frame but for a bird on the move it's useful to be able to use AI servo and get the composition I want.

I wasn't suggesting that I know how you do it, or that you should buy a different camera, or that you should use more focus points. Clearly I should have deleted part of your post and only quoted the exact bit I was disagreeing with, my mistake.
I see now :t: I thought you were disagreeing with my whole post.
I did say I suspect most mostly only use the centre point and from what I have read I believe this to be true - that is not to say it applies to everyone as you have clearly demonstrated. I also see your point about framing but I never seem to get the time to change points when a flyer comes along.

I do agree that all focus points enabled could be an advantage for tracking flyers providing the cluster is close enough apart. Certainly on the Cameras that I have used this method is next to useless.
A closer cluster in the Canon range means going for a 1 series camera with its so called 'ring of fire' but having said that I have heard of several 1 series shooters who still prefer using just the centre point for flyers.

[tjsimonsen]

While I agree with Niel that the Canon 400/5.6 is an excellent birding lens, I don't think that the 5d2 would be the best choice for a camera body. I would pick a 50D or even a 40D (or a 1d3 if you can afford it) for their speed.

Thomas

[RAH]

The advantage of the Multiple Focus points is that if the camera is set to Continuous Focus if the bird moves from the Focus Point the lens will continue to follow and focus. This is particularly useful for birds in flight.
I agree that this sounds like a good use for multiple focus points. BIF shots are really difficult, so any help you can get is a plus, for sure!

[seaspirit]

Just recently made the step from a D80 to a D300.
Love the D300 AF, fast and precise. Most of the time I use single point AF by itself or with the 21 point assist.
Love the 6 frames/s.

Not yet sure about live view -still trying to figure it out-, but I am still on the bottom of a steep learning curve. Compared with the D80 the D300 requires studying the handbook, just to many options to go by intuition.

I was initially thinking about waiting for the D400 that is expected to be announced in the near future. Mainly to see if the price for the D300 would give. Eventually got a sweet deal on a D300 and went for it.

I don't have any experience with Canon hardware. When I got into DSLRs I already had some Nikon lenses, therefore it was a nobrainer at the time to stick with Nikon.
However, a lot of folks are very happy and pleased with the two digit Canons.

Starting out I would look what brand/combination gives me the most bang for the buck, but I would certainly stick with one of the two players mentioned above .....

UH