Diamondback or Fury?

[Tabby]

Hello everyone! I've searched here and elsewhere to help narrow down my choices of a decent compact, but I'm still having trouble making a decision. I want some Vortex 8x28s, but I can't decide if I should get Diamondback or Fury. Is there any real difference between these two besides the price? In other words...is the Fury worthy of its higher price tag? There is a $90 difference between the two. Another 8x28 that I was considering, and may still decide to get, is the Bushnell Excursion. They are less than $100. I've looked at all the specs for these models. What I need is input from those with a lot more binocular experience than myself...which is very limited.

Thanks in Advance,
:cat:Tabby:cat:

[Kevin Purcell]

Another to consider is the "end of life" Vortex Hurricane 8x28 that the new Diamondback 8x28 replaced. It's now $80 at Eagle Optics.

I gave them a pretty harsh review (perhaps harsher than needed ... search for it) but they might be another useful option. There is one other review here that liked them. I suspect they'ed be not as bright as the other choices.

The Diamondback 8x28 are a rather new so finding someone who has used them might be a challenge. But I'm curious of how big the difference is in general between the "new" Diamondback and the (older) Fury.

Tero has used the 8x28 Excursions (IIRC).

Of course another possibility is to order one of each from EO then return the ones you don't choose. This is standard practice and EO gives you 30 days to return the bins in new condition to allow you to do this. You can find other vendors who also do this.

[Tero]

I tried going that route, I have a Bushnell 8x28. I recommend 8x32. Get the most compact model you can get, or lightest. Diamondbacks should be OK, but to get 32mm, need Fury.

I can't get terribly excited about Bushnell Excursion anymore. Some in that series are better made than others.

[dustyview]

The 8x28 Hurricanes are a great deal for the money, but like other compact roof prism binoculars, you have to get your eye placement correct and the interpupilary distance right (it took me a few sessions to get comfortable with them). They're not quite as sharp or bright as 42mm objective binoculars, but they're also 14 oz. and less than 5" high and wide, plus they come with the Vortex lifetime warranty. For a knock-around, glove compartment, or grab and go binoculars, they're hard to beat at $80. They're a bit brighter than the 8x30 Yosemite, but not as sharp. I've found them quite capable for small birds in the backyard (eg, lesser goldfinches), and med. birds (quail, kestrels, towhees) out to a hundred meters (and game out much further).

I would also look at the Leupold Katmai 6x or the new 7x36 Diamondback. Both should be brighter than an 8x28. And have you tried the 8x30 Leupold Yosemite? It's very sharp and light, same height as many compacts and just a bit wider (but still light at 18 oz.) EO has it now for about $100. Good luck!

[Tabby]

Thanks everyone! I decided to go with the Fury 8x28s after speaking with someone from CameraLandNY and a Vortex rep. Basically I was told that it depends on each individual's eyesight and those with better vision will see a bigger difference between the two (Fury & Diamondback). The rep also said that the Hurricanes are the same as the Diamondbacks. Tero's post had me considering 8x32s, and I may still go that route if I'm not completely happy with my purchase.

Since my first post I did acquire some 8x30s that my husband found in the attic. Although these are some 15 year old Tascos, they are a big improvement over what I was using...some very cheap and very heavy (31.5 oz) Barskas from Academy. Since the Tascos are also considered low quality and cheap, I can only imagine how nice it will be to use a Fury. Of course I'm just a newbie/beginner/amateur backyard birder right now. My main objective at the moment was to get something really small and light that I could carry in my small crossbody handbag that wouldn't add much extra weight. If I stick with my new hobby, I'll invest in a good pair of 8x42s later...maybe Santa can bring me some for Christmas. ;)

:cat:Tabby:cat:

[dustyview]

Please post your impressions. I would be curious to hear how you like them.

One thing: You wrote "The rep also said that the Hurricanes are the same as the Diamondbacks." My understanding is that optically they're the same as the old Diamondback 8x28s, but the 7x36 DBs are a new design, and only a little bit bigger (still "baggable"). If the Furys seem too dim to you in low light, it might be worth trying the new 7x36 (I'm interested in trying these myself). You would only be out the return postage.

Exit pupils
Fury 8x28 = 3.5
Diamondback 7x36 = 5.1

EDIT: To clarify, the 8x28 Diamondbacks may or may not been updated for '09, but Vortex has stated that it has updated other DB models and introduced two new ones (incl. the 7x36).

[Kevin Purcell]

EDIT: To clarify, the 8x28 Diamondbacks may or may not been updated for '09, but Vortex has stated that it has updated other DB models and introduced two new ones (incl. the 7x36).

The 8x28 Diamondbacks are new in '09. There weren't any old 8x28 Diamondbacks. The 8x28 Diamondbacks replace the 8x28 Hurricane.

They may have the same optics. They appear to have the same enclosure with the case texturing of the Hurricane now being applied to the the other new Diamondbacks. I don't know ... Vortex might be just rationalizing the naming of models and perhaps doing a minor coating update. You'd have to check them side by side to be sure.

Looking at their table it seems the 8x28 are a little below the new 36mm and updated 42mm bins for coatings anyway.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/content/80

[dustyview]

I had thought there were 8x28s out in 2008, but I may be misremembering. The Vortex table, though, should be taken with a grain of salt. I found an '07 table that gave the 8x28 Hurricanes one rating number and an '08 table with a different number (both pages disappeared when Vortex redid their web site). Plus you'll notice they go only by objective diameter, so the 36mm DBs get one number for "Low Light Performance" when in reality the 7x36 would be brighter than the 9x36. I think those ratings are somewhat subjective.

[HoosierGuy]

So, is the new Vortex Diamondback 10x42 for $229.99 from EO worth getting for general birding? The price looks nice to me!

[Kevin Purcell]

The previous model was quite good. This one will be brighter and with better.

ER will probably not be quite enough (an equivalent bin the Bushnell Excursion isn't for me).

Following the rule of buy the most you can to save yourself from buying again I'd go for the Zen Ray ED. It's more but ... then you'll be done unless you really want a $1000ish bin.

[falcondude]

I had thought there were 8x28s out in 2008, but I may be misremembering. The Vortex table, though, should be taken with a grain of salt. I found an '07 table that gave the 8x28 Hurricanes one rating number and an '08 table with a different number (both pages disappeared when Vortex redid their web site). Plus you'll notice they go only by objective diameter, so the 36mm DBs get one number for "Low Light Performance" when in reality the 7x36 would be brighter than the 9x36. I think those ratings are somewhat subjective.

Those numbers are mostly arbitrary. It will be fun to plot the distribution of the price vs the rating number across all the Vortex product lines to see who came up with those numbers.;)

[dustyview]

I agree. The Hurricane 8x28 went down about a point when the Diamondbacks came out. Hmmmm..... And given that other manufacturers can make small porro binoculars that are inexpensive relative to roofs but still sharp, I wonder why the Vanquish rates so low compared to the rest. During a recent conversation with staff at EO I was told "there are no magic bullets" and "you get what you pay for". But looking at the impact of Vortex, Zen and other companies on the recent market, as a result of a drop in technology prices and the lower labor rates of Asian production, isn't that exactly what we're seeing? (and didn't the Hamilton's have a lot to do with leading the charge, w/ EO and Vortex?). Ten years ago the idea that you get get very close to Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, etc. quality in a roof prism bin costing 15-20% the price of the former would have been pretty unbelievable, but here we are. Clearly more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better in 2009.


Those numbers are mostly arbitrary. It will be fun to plot the distribution of the price vs the rating number across all the Vortex product lines to see who came up with those numbers.;)

[Kevin Purcell]

The Hurricanes have been discounted in Coyote Brown for a year or so now. The green ones went down after the new DB came out. And the price difference would make me think that the coatings changed.

My point in quoting the table is the numbers for the coatings for the 8x28 Diamondbacks differ from the larger Diamondback. So whilst I don't trust the table I believe the ratings inside the table. If they were the same the company would tout them as the same. The numbers may change either because of marketing (as you imply) or because the bins changed (possible. Without more evidence you can't actually say which one is true (or perhaps neither!).

The only way to resolve this is to look through the bins ;)

Why are the Vanquish so low? They use BK-7 prisms. You actually have to look closely to see the squaring off of the exit pupils but they're there in my one (and that isn't too old). You also see that Vortex doesn't tout BaK4 prisms in these. The focus action on mine are VERY stiff. Sharp but I find it less than ideal.

The problem of the Chinese ED for EO (and Bushnell and others) is it is only one bin model but it distorts the whole price structure of the bins they sell. They have a range of bins at a range of prices. For them to adapt to the new bins is going to be painful. There is a name for this: disruptive innovation. It's a pain to be an established company when you get hit with a disruptive innovation that you can't fully run with (without costing you profits) but new entrants can make the best use of that disruptive innovation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovation

See also SteveC's post on the Atlas Optics range from EO. It looks like EO is jumping on the Chinese ED bandwagon and creating a new brand to do it to keep it separate from the current EO brand to minimize disruption to current products.

[dustyview]

I think you're right on target here, Kevin. I'm hoping that the same factory (factories?) can take that technology to a wider line, incl. some compact 32/36mm roofs and maybe some compact porros (which are already coming out of China, e.g. the Yosemite, but I'd like to see a top-end reverse porro like the Elite E2, which are made in Japan). If that happens the product structures will have to be changed, and one thing we will hopefully get to lose will be the multiple model lines that seem too redundant already.


The problem of the Chinese ED for EO (and Bushnell and others) is it is only one bin model but it distorts the whole price structure of the bins they sell.

[ceasar]

Elite E2 Reverse Porro???

I hope you aren' t talking about the Nikon E2! Making them into a Reverse Porro would NOT be an improvement by any means!

Bob

[dustyview]

Nope, this one:

http://www.bushnell.com/general/binoculars_eliteE2_62-0726.cfm



Elite E2 Reverse Porro???

I hope you aren' t talking about the Nikon E2! Making them into a Reverse Porro would NOT be an improvement by any means!

Bob

[ceasar]

Nope, this one:

http://www.bushnell.com/general/binoculars_eliteE2_62-0726.cfm

HAW!:-O
I have one of these. Only it was called a Custom Classic when I got it 4 or 5 years ago. Fine little binocular! Only problem is the diopter ring could be stiffer. It moves too easily.
Bob

[dustyview]

Bob: The new model is supposed to have upgraded coatings and prisms, plus longer eye relief and twist-up eyecups, and they have gone back to the metal body (now magnesium). I've only tried one pair, but for a real compact (as opposed to most 32 & 36mm roofs which can still weigh 20+ oz.) they were stellar. I had been looking at roofs for almost an hour, and the E2 7x26 seemed as good or better than the Swaro Pocket and Ultravid 8x20s, and not much bigger (although certainly bulkier). Being porros, they lacked the artificial-looking (to me) heightened contrast of bright roofs. I tried them against a pair of Nikon Prostaff 8x and another B&L rev. porro for more of an apples-to-apples test and there was really no comparison. The E2s were a noticeable step up in image quality. They were so good that now I'm curious to try another pair, just to see whether the first pair are typical of the E2 reverse porro quality. They are made for B&L in Japan and have a stated weight of 12 oz.


HAW!:-O
I have one of these. Only it was called a Custom Classic when I got it 4 or 5 years ago. Fine little binocular! Only problem is the diopter ring could be stiffer. It moves too easily.
Bob

[dustyview]

Just to add a note to this thread, the Vanquish in now a BaK-4 prism binocular, and has a 350' FOV, so at $60 less than the best price at which I've seen the E2 and close to 1/2 the E2's normal price, it may give the little Bushnell some competition, although it's still 8x, not 7x.

Why are the Vanquish so low? They use BK-7 prisms. You actually have to look closely to see the squaring off of the exit pupils but they're there in my one (and that isn't too old). You also see that Vortex doesn't tout BaK4 prisms in these. The focus action on mine are VERY stiff. Sharp but I find it less than ideal.

[Kevin Purcell]

Note that my one is only 6 months old ... I'd check the one you get.

BTW, how do you know? Vortex don't say this on their web site. Though they don't mention prism types for all of their models now (ugh).

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-vanquish-8x26-binocular

[dustyview]

Phone conversation. And the EO website now has it:
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/vortex/vortex-vanquish-8x26-binocular


Note that my one is only 6 months old ... I'd check the one you get.

BTW, how do you know? Vortex don't say this on their web site. Though they don't mention prism types for all of their models now (ugh).

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-vanquish-8x26-binocular