Equipment

[Steve]

So what Equipment do members use? and is it like all things: you get what you pay for??? is it all preference,or is there the holy grail of Bins or scopes for birding?

[Colin]

Binnies - Nikon HG are the absolute best but v expensive unless you can do a deal.

Scopes - Kowa 823/824 are the best value for money of all time.

Leica binnies are good optically but the engineering of the focussing wheel with the 'slack' in it make them awful. Many £99.00 binnies have smoother focussing mechanisms.

Swarovski - far too expensive in terms of value for money. The scopes in my opinion for over £1000 are terrible.

Having now upset nearly all the members of this forum one way or another, may I say that each has unique eyes and what may suit one will not suit another so be gentle with me. However, the sloppy focussing wheel of the Leica is nothing to do with eyesight, its just poor engineering.

There is another brand of binnies, sold in WWT shops for £1.99. The spec is 4x16 and although the image leaves a lot to be desired, they must rate as one of the best value for money of all time for binnies. Surely a £600 pair of binnies cannot be 300 times better than the £1.99 ones. (100x better, yes, but not 300x).



*Colin retreats and puts tin hat on*


Controversial Colin

[tafflad]

What a very good topic , and one that will be very , very informative for others such as myself . To know what other , more experienced people use , can only be of benefit to the less knowledgeable of us . Personally , I use a Kowa 823 scope c/w 20-60 zoom , and a well used pair of swift 8 X 40 bins , both incidentally chosen by virtue of being bargain buys , and not through any prior knowledge .
Cheers Hugh

[monkeyman]

As a freelance designer, I have to make every penny count. I'd love to spend a coupla grand on really good equipment, but can' t justify that. So, we've got two pairs of Jessop's bins (pocket size) which we got for less than 60 pounds sterling (the pair) and cos I can't aford a Swar or a Leca, just bought the Tasco 15-45x scope which really surprised me with its image quality! Only drawbacks are a very (!) narrow depth of field and light weight (vibration in the wind).

But then again, pencils and paper are a lot cheaper! And that's MY forte!

Well, apart from Photoshop! (and that's even more expesive!)

B (:

ps. It's what you get out of birding that counts, not how much you spend!!!!!!

[marcus]

Monkeyman, that is soooooo true!!!!
I just bought a new pair yesterday on my lunch break, the Nikon Sporter I 10x36. It wasn't too expensive, $209.99 (what's that in pounds?). Have any of you birders ever looked through one?
I hope that this spring I'll see some lifer through it.
Oh, by the way, I don't see a key for the pound sign on this Gateway keyboard.
marcus

[IanF]

I agree with the sentiments on cost of equipment. I know what I'd like to have but rarely can I afford it.
I have made do with various pairs of binoculars over thirty years of birdwatching and have found my self replacing them every few years. Most had decent optics setting out (or so I thought) but even looking after them very carefully, the image deteriorates or more likely my eyesight !
I picked up a pair of Leica 8x32's secondhand a couple of months back and to be honest the image quality is just so much better, clearer, more defined, greater depth of field, larger viewable image for spectacle wearers ....
I honestly believe that if I had splashed out on a pair several years ago, I would have probably saved money in the long run !

[alan_rymer]

I only got into fairly serious birding this spring. I have been using a pair of Sirius 10x25's which optically seem quite reasonable to me and invested in 3 pairs of 8(GBP) cheapies from 7sayshop.co.uk which I keep in the car and jacket pockets ( its better having a cheap pair with you than none at all! ), but at age 54 with eyes that go with the age a new pair of bins will soon be required.
As a first scope I bought an Opticron MM2 with a 25x eyepiece and a Velbon 444 tripod, both are at the lightest ( probably about 2.5lb the pair) and cheapest end of the market. I wanted to get into digiscoping at sometime so I have treated myself to a new scope this week, Opticron ES80 HD with a 32x HDF eyepiece, its so much better that the MM2. However, its so much heavier and the Velbon 444 is not up to scratch, so need a better tripod!. I have an old digital camera ( 640x480 ) no zoom and now see why a Zoom camera is required!. Photo's without zoom are O.K. upto about 20-30 foot, after that things get a little difficult, so, also a new camera required!. Maybe next Christmas.
And I thought fishing was expensive!.

Maybe I should just sit and vegitate, in the warm and dry watching the birdies on the feeders, with a good book on my lap and a Sherry at my elbow ( or maybe the other way round )!.

Hope the weathers better where you are. Wet, Wet, Wet, flooded and even more wet here!.

Anyway, I hope the fat man in the red suit brought you what you desired.

[Gaye Horn]

WE have Bushnell Bins times 2 and a pocket size pair as well. I also have a pair of Nikon bins..(left in a will to me) and Busnell scope...a friend has the new Swar scope and wow .. but the price is here in Canada to be bled for... no way unless we win the lotto.
We have great cameras, good lens, and super accessories.. but that is that... we like what we have and have had them for years now.. it works for our eyes and frankly Lee has the BEST eye sight of any living mortal ,so most times I do not even have to search.. he finds 'em and I point that direction!!!
Expensive does not always mean better... it sometimes just means that person spent more...
I say whatever works is good enough for me...and as long as you derive enjoyment from that which you have.. then it is all a moot point.

[wizard]

For years i used a great pair of 10x50 Pentax, they did the job but i was restricted & living in Sunny Wales waterproof bins is a must, Pentax were not!.
I tried a mates Leica 8x32 and they were good but only trying them for a a few mins you cant really tell.
Before Xmas i got a pair of 8-12x42 Leica and to be very honest here, they are outstanding, used them fist coming upto dusk and looking at a post which was dark on my side looking with the naked eye, with the Duovid's it was like daylight not dusk. the only down side is the weight but this is similar to what i am used to so it just about evens out.
i was told you only get what you pay for and with the Leica this seems to be the case, would i pay the price again...... Yes but only if your really into your birding.
now i am looking for a scope but after reading all the reports on makes, you really have to make up your own mind so i will be looking around all this year for a good pair before i spend any cash.

only advise i can give is speak to people who have them & get first had advise, shops will always tell you "this is best or that is best" make up your own mind then go for it.

hope this helps not makes matters worse:-(

[Andy Bright]

Get the best and they should last a lifetime....that's where the money goes, build quality and after sales service!
I've heard amazing stories of how far Swarovski go to keep their customers happy.... givng replacement equipment whilst they send off the sick optics off to Austria, often free of any charge....even if you did something stupid!

How these scopes and binos feel in use is vital, optically they are often similar at the top end.... so weight and comfort over extended periods of use becomes the deciding factor in many cases.

My own opinion is that Swarovski are currently producing the best sporting optics. The EL range of binos (I have 10x42) only have the Nikon HG's as serious competition to my eyes, and the HG's seemed very heavy and bulky to me. I thought the Leica BN's were best for colour though.....so it depends on your priorities (brightness, contrast, colour or sharpness).
Consequently, I prefer the Swarovski 80HD scopes, but this is down to optical quality more than a friendly design (never liked the sharp edges on them, new ATS is more cuddly!). Kowa 823/4 would be my next choice.... great value.
Andy B

[Steve Gross]

I own the following optics:

Binocs:

Pentax DCF WP 8x42 - waterproof, phase-corrected, roof prisms.
I love 'em and am still astonished from time to time with the bright, clear image. A friend bought a pair of these, but their eyecups kept sliding back down. He gave them to his wife and bought a pair of Nikon Venturers (8x). These are $1000+ binocs (the Nikons). I had him try my Pentaxes, which do not have the sliding eyecup problem, and he said that if his were like mine (and a return to the seller for a replacement would have accomplished this), he never would have gotten the Nikons. After rebate, he got the Pentaxes for less than $200!!!!!

Backup binocs: Nikon Action series 7x35. Good to keep in the car, and a very wide field of view (good for beginning birders, IMHO).

Scope: Eagle Optics Raven 78mm, w/20-60x zoom eyepiece. I've posted in another forum about this scope, and would only change out the eyepiece for a 30x wide-angle (which hopefully will come out from Eagle Optics).

Tripod: Bogen (Manfrotto) 3021, with Bogen 3130 fluid head. Works like a charm.

I'm pretty pleased with my setup, especially considering my budget (I'm a teacher). I shopped for a long time and read everything I could get my hands on before deciding on binocs or scope.

[Geoff Pain]

My equipment is as follows
Bins Leica 8x32BA

Scope Swarovski AT80HD,20-60 zoom eyepiece

Tripod Velbron Delta with a Manfrotto 128RC mini video fluid head

The only item that I may upgrade would be the tripod,but not the head,as for everything else I'm hoping it will see me out the rest of my days.


Geoff:t:

[peter hayes]

Geoff


Which tripod would you upgrade to? And have you a digital camera?

[Geoff Pain]

Yes I do have a digital camera Peter,a Nikon CP995.I don't really know which tripod I would upgrade to,I've not given it a lot of though,any suggestions anybody?

[peter hayes]

Thanks Geoff.

How would compare the 4500 with the 995? And what about the 5700? Any thoughts?

[digi-birder]

Peter: If you can get hold of the November issue of Bird Watching, they did a side-by-side comparison of the 4500 and the 995. If you can't get it I can scan it and send you a copy if you like. My digiscoping acquaintance uses the 4500 and he gets some great photos, which he gets developed at Asda, as he doesn't have a computer. The article in BW puts the 995 at the top. I'm still confused as I'm getting quite mixed results with the 995, but as I've stated before, this could be the camera's focus at fault. Unless I'm just expecting too much perfection.

Geoff: I recently upgraded my Manfrotto 190 tripod to the 443 carbon-fibre. I kept the 128RC head though. It's quite a bit lighter and is very stable, although I haven't been out in any strong winds yet. It really does absorb the movement quickly. I tested it in the shop by taking my scope and camera and setting it all up on the tripod. Looking through the camera monitor, I touched the tripod leg and watched how long it took for the image to stabilise. The proof of the pudding is in my recent photos, some of which I've put in the Gallery. These were taken in a packed hide, with people moving and coming in and out. With my other Manfrotto, I had loads of shots from hides that were clearly spoiled due to camera shake - and I thought I'd waited for everyone to stop moving.

Diane.

[ralph]

Well,

Bins: Leica 8x42BN (Green Ones)
Digital Camera: Nikon Coolpix 775 (Biggest Mistake EVER)
Scope: Some unidentifiable Greenkat job, extremely old, extremely rubbish!

And yes Al - Photoshop prices are extortionate. Version 7 has just crippled my business!

[Doug]

For a cost effective alternative to Photoshop try Adobe Photoshop Elements - It has done everything I have needed and is under £100.

[ralph]

Thanks Doug,

Got Photoshop Elements 2 bundled with Photoshop 7. It's still sitting in the box unused, and I expect that's where it will stay, unless there's something on there that Photoshop can't do (which is highly unlikely).

[peter hayes]

digi-birder

Thanks very much for that advice. I'll take a look at the mag to see how they compare the two models.

[Vogelman]

Digital Cameras:

Canon D60 w 70-200 F4L (Looking for longer lens maybe Canon 100-400 F 5.6 L or Sigma 50-500 EX), Nikon Coolpix 700 (No Good for Birding as no zoom)

Binocs:

Nikon 7 x 21 7.1 (Circa 1980) I would really like to get a new pair with a little more power though I would keep these as they are nice and compact and still work like new. I have looked at the Canon 10 x 40? IS model and was impressed with how well the IS worked and the apparent value (<$400 US). Anybody have any experience with IS binocs? From my test at the store I think I might even be able to go for a higher power with the IS, but am not sure I would care for the extra weight and really need the extra power.

Vogelman

[bcurrie]

Vogelman, I have used the Canon IS binocs. The image stabilization is very good. However, for a 10 X 40 they are pricey. The IS is really only needed if you go out on boats frequently (which is where I tried mine, and it was fantastic). If you do not go out on pelagic trips, you will find that you rarely will use the IS. I don't think a higher power is made with the IS, is it?

[Andy Bright]

I've tried the Canon IS 15X50 and wasn't impressed with the optical performance compared with the typical high-end binos (way behind my 10x42 Swaro' EL), probably fair enough as much of the price goes into the IS system (and very clever it is too). They are heavy and not comfortable in my hands.....maybe better for others.
I.S. was good....slight feeling that you are on a boat with a gentle swell underneath... don't have a heavy breakfast before extended use? 3:-)
Andy B

[andyb]

(my first post)
bins - swift audubon 8.5 x 44 - newer waterproof ones
My first pair of 'serious' bins. I'd been using some old and appallingly bad Tasco zoom bins before then. They were well past their best too. Optics way out of alignment and the images were different sizes through each eyepiece. Friends were amazed I could see anything at all through them but it's surprising what you can get used to! I absolutely love the swift bins ...

scope - opticron es80 with hdf zoom eyepiece
My first scope. I saved for ages and I haven't had it long but it's transformed my birdwatching. I don't use the maximum zoom very much though because the field of view gets very small and quite dark unless conditions are perfect.

tripod - velbon delta
A tripod - had no problems with it really. The coating on the legs seems to get scratched quite easily but then I'm a bit of an 'off-road' birder :)

andyb (another one)

[wizard]

Hi andyb

glad to hear your getting on with your new optics. i too am a bit of an off roader. scrabling through brambles & the like is the norm for me. or spending hours in a forrest. all good fun though.
i am saving for a scope next or it could be a lap top which would be handy to log all my data. scope i think first though ;)

just had a pair of Leica duovid and they are out standing.

welcome to the forum

[andyb]

Hi wizard,
Thanks for the welcome. Yeah dragging my tripod through the brambles every week doesn't seem to have done it much good :)
I've heard about these duovid bins - are they quite a new idea? They look pretty cool imho.
Are you a data hoarder too? Even my girlfriend laughs at my obsession with logging everything I see. Do you use any particular software?

[wizard]

Hi andyb

i always used a pair of Pentax 10x50 which i found were great, but not waterproof. i was satisfied with them for years until i got into birds of prey. the weight is about the same so if anyone needs lighter bins go for the 8x32's but i dont mind that little extra to carry as it is well worth it. i must admit not to using the 12x42 as much as the 8x42 but when i ned it all i have to do is click the lens and the image is a little bigger. i am very happy with them and they will last me out i think.
i use Excel on windows XP, great little program after you have worked out what you want from it, that is more than half the battle, knowing what we want. i also use a dictation machine which i would be lost without. i can write up notes when i get home and not worry about soggy pages as i am aways wet or covered in mud :eat:
well not always but you know what i mean.
there are a lot of birds i dont know so i dont pretend to know them all, ticking off birds is not my thing. i like to see & watch them and concentrate on a selected few.

[robinm]

I use the following:
Leica APO 77 (32ww and 20-60 zoom)
Leica 10x42 BN
Manfrotto 443
CP885
PS Elements

I prefer the Leica optics because to my eyes they give the sharpest image with the best colour rendition. I have no problems with the focus mechanism on the bins or scope.

However, I think the important phrase is "to my eyes". I am convinced that the best optical equipment is the one that works best for you. My advice to anyone spending this amount of money on optics is don't take anyone's word for it - try it. In UK it is possible just about anywhere to find a retailer doing field days where you can try this stuff out. Do it and at the end of the day trust what your eyes are telling you.

Robin

[Ragna]

my equipment is bins Zeiss 7x42 scope Kowa TSN3 with 30 eyepiece the bins are about 10 years old and the scope about 5 or6 just got a nikon 4500 but not used it for digiscoping yet adaptor hopefully will come tomorrow may try and get a secondhand 20x eyepiece as i think the 30 maybe a bit powerful any view on 20x or 30x for digiscoping

[digi-birder]

Hi Ragna,

I'm getting better results since changing from 32x to 22x. But then again - some people still get good results with the higher powered eyepieces. You can but try it.

[Johnny1]

I used to have a pair of Bushnell Natureview 8x45 which I had for several years using them dayly untill one day the internal focusing went kaput as i couldn't live without my bins I went and bought the best available bins with the little money I had-a pair of Opticron Oregon waterproof 8x42. price was just over £100. I don't know if they really are waterproof as I havn't managed to drop them in water yet. I've also recently purchased a new scope an Opticron Imagic 80 with 20-60 zoom. I'm also another user of the cp775.

[Ragna]

Diane
Thank you for your reply im going to practice with the 30x to start with and see how i get on although well up on photography digiscoping is totally diferent and i can see im going to have to start from the begining

[wizard]

I must agree with Robin on which optic suit you.
i spent an hour in one shop looking at Swarovski el8.5x42 a great pair of bins & light in weight and two pairs of Leica, Duovid & 8x32. the shop assistant was very helpful but didnt know much about bird watching, not that it made a difference at all. if you could put the Swarovski eye cups onto the Leica Duovid you would have the ideal pair for life. not that i am complaining with my Duovid's they are fantastic.
You have to look for yourself and see what suits you, all the magazine reveiws are basicaly the same thing year in year out no matter what the make of bins. look at magazine a few years back to see for yourself. take advise by all means but make up your own mind when parting with your money, get the pair YOU like that suits your style of bird watching. small is good in a woods for example but in on vast open mountain ranges maybe not so good when you want to see what the dot is miles away.
swings & roundabout..... you dicide what you want first then look around. I had mine £200 cheaper online so well worth the time i spent looking around i think.

all the best & happy watching

[Reader]

Somehow I have missed all of this thread. How remiss of me.

My equipment
Kowa 822 - now upgraded to an 824 with 32XWA & 20-60zoom
Swarovski 8x30 SLC's (bought 5 years ago-still brilliant)
Nikon Coolpix 990 camera + 5x lens
plus I have just purchased a Manfrotti 501 floating head.

Now all I have to do is learn how to use it all together.

[wizard]

this thread is very handy.
i am looking for a scope, BUT the other part which keeps coming up is how important a good tripod is.
can anyone please explain to me (and i am sure others on here) what to look out for. which they think is best & more info on theManfrotti 501 floating head.


Thanks guys & gals

[Reader]

wizard

I purchased the Manfrotti floating head only 3 weeks ago after a recommendation by another birder. Basically when you are using a digital camera at high magnification it is hard to keep the bird you are after in the centre of your monitor. With a normal tripod head it is too stiff to gently move it sideways and upwards so it becomes very hard to move the camera to keep in touch with the bird. Also you have to try and counter balance gravity as the camera's weight tries to pull the scope down.

With this floating head you can set it to counterbalance the camera's weight and also you have locks for upward and sideways movement. When the locks are off you can move your scope any which way you want. As soon as you are on the bird you lock up both locks and if the bird moves you release and move the scope / camera accordingly in a more easy fashion than a normal tripod head. There is a bit more to it than that and I am still learning how to use it. It cost me £125 for it. It is quite a heavy piece of equipment but some of the weight you lose because you have to dismantle part of your old head to accomodate this new head.

Regarding the tripod. Mine is a Swarovski tripod that is actually a Manfrotti design. They are heavier than most but you need this for stability.

My scope I find suits me. I think it's the bees knees in scopes but buying one is down to preferences and what you can afford. I am sure that other members will give their opinions on this subject but there have been a few threads already in the forums covering this aspect of birding.

[Lee in SC]

(my first post)

Being new to bird photography and having received Pentax's "Digibino DB 100" as a gift, I have no illusions about my ability to award winning photos for the forseeable future, but I am having trouble taking clear shots with camera on tripod of birdfeeder at an approximate distance of 25 feet. (A photo I took of a Roseate Spoonbill in the Everglades at approximately 100 feet is recognizable, but blurry. Has anyone had success with this new gadget? Thanks.

Lee in SC

[Reader]

Lee

Welcome to this forum Try and say hello to everyone in the Hello forum. You will be warmly welcomed by all.

You might find your question better in the photography forum with a header titled "Advice needed" or something like that. Your question is a bit hidden amongst this thread and may not get the response that a specific thread would get.

I hope you enjoy being in this forum as they are all a great bunch in here. Give the gallery a good look over if you haven't done so already.

BTW I would have loved to have seen the shot of the Roseate Spoonbill. That is one of the prettiest birds around.

[JJM]

Bins: I use Leica 10x42BN and think they are superb both in image quality and I certainly have no complaints about the focussing.

Scope: Leica APO-Televid 77 (20x w & 20-60 eyepieces), a bit on the heavy side but a superb scope.

Tripod: Swarovski 2, a good stable tripod in most conditions.

Nikon Coolpix 995 digital camera.

With all optical equipment it is always a good idea to try as many different makes and models as you can and make up your own mind, everyone has different criteria they have to stick to and will have different opinions on what equipment does or does not live up to their own expectations.