What set is the best for me?

[newfielander]

Hey I'm from one of the most beauitful provinces of Canada, I do alot of binocular using,but I still need a bit of advice.
I broke my Oberwerk 15 X 70 binoculars last fall,, and now I soon need a new pair , I loved the Oberwerks but they weren't water proof, I use them for hunting, yes they are big , but thats what i like because i use alot of high mountian tops and set them on a stump or big rock and view the valley below. Now if there was a set of smaller binoculars that is just as good as the big Oberwerks that i use, than I'd be quite happy with that as well.
Thats why I need someone's opinion on the two sets that I have chosen,
http://www.binoculars.com/binoculars/hunting-binoculars/bruntonechoelo15x63binoculars.cfm or
http://www.garrettoptical.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=G1570WP&Show=TechSpec
I want a set of binoculars that is center focus,water proof, fog proof, has a FOV of atleast 220, and is atleast 15X. And in a price range of 300.00 or less. I've used all kinds of binoculars and 15 power is great for what I need them for, once I get into bigger powers I loose FOV and once I go smaller MAGNIFICATION , I cant see in detail good enough to please me, the high power saves alot of walking!!
If anyone has ANY suggestion at all please let me know!!!!!
Thanks Newfielander.

[rivergazer]

I'm not much on high power binoculars, so can't help you there, but FYI .... both of the links you put up took me to "page not found".

[rivergazer]

One thought though ..... I find a monopod much preferable to a stump or rock

marty

[newfielander]

Hi rivergazer, thanks for letting me know about the links not opening for you, if you dont mind can you give it a try again and give me your opinion? Concerning a monopod, thats a greta idea but remember its just another piece of gear you have to pack and when you climb the high mountians, for me anyway I try to go as light as possible Thanks newfielander

[mooreorless]

Hi New, Here it a link to CN, I hope it helps.
You might of already saw this and I was going to put another link but realized you might of have already read it considering you were the OP.;) If I remember right you like wide field views in the higher power binocular.
Regards,Steve

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2264306&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&vc=1

[rivergazer]

Tried the links, and yup, they work now.

[mooreorless]

New I think you have seen these, but you never know.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62132

[newfielander]

Mooreless, these are what I dream of but I say I have to decide betweenthe wife or Minox 15x58,haha.
Love to find a set of used ones. 300.00 or less is my budget.

[Steve C]

300.00 or less is my budget.

Then my advice is to get a porro binocular. I would personally have nothing to do with an inexpensive roof prism like the Echo in 15x. The lower power Echos I have looked at did not impress me much. I'd say look at the Nikon Action EX or Pentax WP porro, whichever suits your fancy.

Look at the binocular bargains thread. One of the last posts there gave an e-bay auction site for a decent looking Magellan 12x50 porros for a stupid cheap price. Evidently several available at the price.

[mooreorless]

I agree with Steve C this 12x50 at this cheap price would work until you found your dream big binocular.;)
Regards,Steve

[shaocaholica]

Nikon 16x50 Action Extremes are half your budget but might be big as with all porros if size is critical to your application.

[newfielander]

Shaocaholica, 16 x 50's i like but it has a low FOV compared to the 15 x 70's. And Steve C the Garrett's I mentioned is porro's arent they?
When you all take into consideration that I really thought the Oberwerks were good, my choice of Garrett's 15 x 70's CF WP, is it a wise choice or will they end up been a step down from the Oberwerks? So whats the best choice everyone if all I had to pick from was the Nikons mentioned or the Garretts for my type of use? Both are WP and CF. Nikons FOV is 200 and the Garrett's is 226 but the Nikons are 16x and the Garretts are 15x. In low light [ex] evening or morning at a long distance which would perform the best?
I just need to know what to buy, I cant believe its been such a big decision.
I need an answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve C]

Steve C the Garrett's I mentioned is porro's arent they?...

Yes the Garrets are porro prisms. I initially tried to edit my initial response to indicate that the Garret would be my choice of the two you linked, but I lost connection and the post didn't change, and I didn't look back here until now.

[CLRobles]

newfielander, how much time do you have in your search for new bins???? And how dead set are you in your price point?
The only reason I ask is there are many "deals" to be had on used optics that are of Alpha quality if one is patient and has the time to find a good deal!
In the past year I have purchased a Docter Optic 15x60 Nobilem for $450 and a Nikon SE 12x50 for $483.... These are two of the best "big eyes" ever and will last a life time with a warranty to back it! I think if you could bend your purchase price by just a bit and be a little patient you could end up with a world class bin that will last you a life time!

FYI - A Docter 15x60 with a $500 price tag on ebay about a month ago never sold and never had a bid.... I think you might be able to reach this sell and get your self a much better deal?

[newfielander]

CLRobles, thanks for your advice, but I need them by Sept.The Docter 15x60 is what i love to have.But I guess time is running out for me now.And thanks Steve C for your advice, do ya think they will be better than the Oberwerks when it comes to clear viewing and preformance?

[Steve C]

And thanks Steve C for your advice, do ya think they will be better than the Oberwerks when it comes to clear viewing and preformance?

Sorry Newfielander, I have no idea how they might compare. ;)

[kristoffer]

15x without IS? Sounds really hard to use.

[andrej 4153]

In germany you have to pay about 700-750 Euro for a new 15x60 docter. It seems to be a very nice bino.The weight is about 55 ounces. FOV 72m. 236 Feet.

[KorHaan]

15x without IS? Sounds really hard to use.

My thoughts exactly.
Been following this thread and to me it screams Canon 15x50 IS from the start. 79m/1000m FOV, 42 oz, all weather bins.

The price tag may rule them out, though. But Image Stabilization makes a big difference when using high power bins.

Regards, Ronald

[newfielander]

kristoffer, like I said on the beginning, using a rock or stump as a stablizer, it works perfect.

[CLRobles]

kristoffer, like I said on the beginning, using a rock or stump as a stablizer, it works perfect.

Like you I have used 15x60's and 12x50's here in the west for ages... I have used both the Swaros and the Docters and would never want a IS bin! But I will say that I have always used a tripod with them unless it was just a very quick, braced hold. But never for extended views. As far as a bin in your price range I would go with the Nikon 16x50 if you are dead set on this power range. The field may be a bit narrower but the clarity of the optics will more than make up for it!

[newfielander]

CLRobles, so your saying the 16x50 over the 15x70's?
How sure are you that the clarity will be alot better? I hope your right cause they are a little more power and alot smaller. But I hope for example in the early morning and late evening, they will be as good atleast as my old Oberwerks were!!! If not, than I'll be soooooooooo disappointed!!!
Thats why I want to make sure what I'm doing. Thanks for your help!!

[Howard220]

Hey I'm from one of the most beauitful provinces of Canada, I do alot of binocular using,but I still need a bit of advice.
I broke my Oberwerk 15 X 70 binoculars last fall,, and now I soon need a new pair , I loved the Oberwerks but they weren't water proof, I use them for hunting, yes they are big , but thats what i like because i use alot of high mountian tops and set them on a stump or big rock and view the valley below. Now if there was a set of smaller binoculars that is just as good as the big Oberwerks that i use, than I'd be quite happy with that as well.


These are the ones Edz touts highly:

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/ultra70.htm

They're waterproof. They weigh 5 lbs, though; the $150 15x70 version is 3 lbs. I have the latter, and like them a lot (once they're aligned!).

[ronh]

Newfie,
A couple of years ago I was looking for a similar bino, but for astronomy, and tried the IF version of the waterproof 15x70 Garrett that you linked in your first post.

I thought the mechanics and construction was quite good for the money. The eye relief was comfortable, and the wide field of view was sufficiently sharp all across to make a pleasing view. For the size of bino, daytime color errors were fairly well controlled as well.
Collimation was spot on, coatings looked dark and even, and I thought it was a very comfortable bino to look through, and lightweight for the size.

It wasn't so great at splitting double stars as I would have liked, however. Also, although this is a harsh test, when I looked at a very bright light at night, I could see faint ghost images around the main images, like there might have been some kind of back and forth reflections going on in the prisms, possibly. I don't really know if that was related to the bit of image softness on double stars.

I ended up sending the Garrett back, no questions asked, and getting a $600 Fujinon, a heavy IF binocular. It is better, but still not perfect, and due to its worse color error than the Garrett, I wouldn't really recommend it for daytime use.

I think the waterproof, center focus Garrett might be the ticket, with the money you want to spend. It really wasn't bad at all. I would wonder about its ruggedness though, probably don't want to slam it around too much!
Ron

[newfielander]

ronh, thanks for your input in my quest in finding the right binoculars,..........................what do I do!!!!!!!!! Nikon's 16x50 or Garrett 15x70!!!
Howard220, the utra's look good , but I know they are IF.Thats no good to me.
Thanks though.

[CLRobles]

EDz posted that the Nikon AE 12x50 was one of his highest resolving bins ever tested and called them a poor mans SE.... I have looked through them but have never really spent much time with side by sides. My thought is that if I were in your position I still would lean to the Nikon because of many factors. I believe they are going to be the most rugged bin in this class and be able to take the kind of punishment that I know can be dished out on a hunt. If ever damaged they have a excellent warranty and servce... Also they are fully water tight and nitro purged with good eye cups that should be comfortable for extended views. Nikon makes a inexpensive but very good tripod adapter so they have the accessories that one would need for a high power bin that is used for hunting, birding, astronomy readily available....
Now personally if I were in your position I would opt for the 12x50.. I have used 12x leica's and now the 12x Nikon SE as a primary high power bin on hunts many times when glassing along side of others with 15's. Yes the 15's are a little better but not by a huge margin. And the 12x50 EX would solve any issue that you would have with light gathering in this price range....
If dead set on the 15 or 16 powers then yes I would still recommend the Nikon for reasons above and they can be bought at many places with a return policy... So buy them, test them, and if you don't like them, return them....

[CLRobles]

Having said what I said above.... I, like you, wish the 16x's did have a 60mm objectives. And this is wht I would opt for the 12x, because of the 4mm EP... If I were you I would buy the 12x's for a third of your spending limit and save the rest of the $'s for when a 15x60 Docter comes along for a steal!

[ronh]

Newfie,
It looks like a choice between light gathering and convenience. I have not tried that Nikon, and its eye relief would be an important consideration.

The Garrett's larger size is not as much as an advantage in very low light as the 70mm specs indicate however, because like many lower priced binoculars, internal stops reduce the effective aperture, in this case to 63mm. (In hindsight, that is probably why the color error appears reduced from the Fujinon, which is a true 70 mm, as are the Ultras) This has been measured by EdZ over on the CN forum, and I confirmed it with my sample. The 50mm Nikons are very close to spec, about 49mm as I recall from EdZ's reviews. Still, if you are up glassing at the first grey light, 63 true mm is an advantage, maybe worth the difficulties of the large size, which you are also used to.

From what Zack G. says on the website and from other people's reports, that Garrett has exactly the same optics as the Oberwerk you owned before, and it is only an improvement in the housing. Given your familiarity with what the Garrett will be like, I would be inclined to order the Nikon for a quick no-obligation trial. If you can get away with the smaller instrument, you win, but if you don't like it, you could then quite confidently order the Garrett in time to make your hunt.
Ron

[Howard220]

Ah - didn't see they are IF. So, is this what you broke? These are what I have for $149:

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/1570.htm

[newfielander]

Howard220, I meant that the utra;s were IF
ronh and CLRobles I guess, the only way in solving this is like you say order them both and what ever pair is best, keep, and return the other.
I'll do that and let you great guys know the outcome.
I cant thank you people enough!!!!!!!!!!
CLRobles, If you see a good set of Doctors,send me an e mail if you dont mind. Thanks............................................ .........


3 hours later



Ok I've made up my mind, I hope its the right thing I've done, I'm going with the Nikon Action 16x50 VII, I know I've let the water proof feature slide but I've gained a smaller size binocular but a bigger FOV, according to the nikon web site that I have attached ,I didnt even notice this about these Bino before. Even though they are smaller than my Oberwerks , please tell me they will be just as good at light gathering!!!!!Please!! So like CLRobles said I'll keep my eyes open for the doctors's

http://www.nikon.ca/en/Product.aspx?m=11839&disp=Specs

[Howard220]

A 16x50 gives you a 3.125mm exit pupil, whereas a 15x70 gives a much larger and more comfortable (as far as I'm concerned) 4.17mm one. (3.125 is perfectly adequate for daytime use.) And in case you were to use them for astronomy, note that a 16x50 will not gather as much light as any 15x70, as a 70mm objective has just about twice the physical area of a 50mm one. That's a big difference.

But the 16x50 may be a lot easier to use just because it is smaller, and you may enjoy using it more than your old 15x70's.

[edz]

Well, the Nikon Action Vii models are a significant step down the quality ladder from the Nikon Action Extreme.

While the Action Vii has good resolution and is lighter and less expensive, the Action Vii has these disadvantages from the Action Extreme:

is operating at about 46mm
has signifficantly less eye relief
has a much less stable eyepiece bridge
has significantly worse outer field image quality
is not waterproof
has no internal baffles
has some internal reflections
has a smaller illuminated field
has significantly greater curvature.

edz

[newfielander]

Edz did ya notice that the Vii has a greater FOV than the Nikon Action Extreme's?? Why is that, so they do have an advantage over the Extreme's
And remember I wont be looking at the stars, and only used during the day.

[CLRobles]

I for one would not buy the actions over the action extreme..... The AE is just a much better bin! And it still is in, under your budget.

[newfielander]

CLRobles, I cant get the Extreme's here in my part of the world and to have them ordered, it would cost me well over 300.00 I believe, I had to pay 192.00 for the VII
How much can you get the extreme's for?

[CLRobles]

Binoculars.com has the 16x50AE for $179 and ships fedex international..... Surely shipping can't be that much?

[newfielander]

CLRobles, 179.00 US funds plus shipping and also duty. I'll check it out but I think i'll be well over 300.00
This web site dont ship to canada

[edz]

In comparing the Nikon AE 10x50 to the Nikon Vii 10x50, it is true the VII has a wider field of view, but has greater aberrations in the outer field, so the Nikon AE actually has a wider "usable" field of view. In the 10x50 VII, the fov is distorted at 55% out and is unusable beyond 70% out. In the 8x40 VII, the fov is distorted at 60% out and is unusable beyond 65% out.

[newfielander]

edz, do this also apply to the 16x50? I honestly dont understand all the % stuff that you spoke about, but I really enjoy learning about binoculars because its a instrument that I really enjoy using.
May I ask you this question,'' when you say that beyond 70% ,the FOV is unusable, does it mean that the 30% of the outer sight is not clear?....., meaning that when I look through the binoculars 30% of the very edge of what I see is distorted? Also remember, these bino's are for using in the day, not for in the night.Thanks for the info

[Howard220]

Yes, that is what he means. (I wanted you to know now in case it takes a while for him to answer.) Another term that is often used here is the "sweet spot." It is where the image is sharp and acceptably sharp. In the binoculars he cites, the sweet spot covers only about the inner 50% to 60% of the overall field. Outside of that the image you see will be fuzzy and/or distorted. You might be unhappy with that, day or night. Binoculars that feature a wide angle with a large sweet spot generally cost more because it takes extra engineering and well-designed lenses to correct the outer distortions.

[edz]

Good explanation Howard
edz

as to the question is it the same in the 16x50s? The perfromance in the 8x40, 10x50 and 12x50 is similar. Although I haven't tried the 16x50, I wouldn't expect it much different. In the 10x50, the outer 30% is very poor. It will be noticable in daylight.

edz

[newfielander]

Hi friends, whats your thought on the Meade 16x50 Binoculars?They are Fully Coated lenses

50mm lens for brighter view

Rubber covered for sure grip

Rubber eyecups for glasses wearers



Field of view 220 ft at 1000 yds

Weight 27.5 oz




Sorry friends, I just noticed they have BK 7 lens, that not a good choice I guess.

[Tero]

Many of us dream of some high powered binos from time to time. Some think 12x hand held or IS is for them. Most usually come around to scopes. The zoom, useless in binoculars, comes in very handy on scopes. I like to use my scope at 20x and scna the waters in winter. Very bright and sharp views compared to any binocular I have seen. My scope is Pentax 65mm. Not really a brick yet, but getting there. 80mm is heavy.