Cinnamon Teal, Western Isles, Scotland

[curracag]

Couple of images attached of today's cinnamon teal at Siabost, Isle of Lewis, Western Isles, Scotland. Apologies for poor quality pics but bird fairly distant, heat haze and tricky lighting.

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Hmm, nice long beak on it. Looks like there might be quite a bit of debate about this one. I noticed that when it was first reported on Birdguides they had the little 'escape' symbol by it but now they've taken it off!

[Jane Turner]

Does this mean I should get excited about the female I had on the sea off here :)

[Reader]

Does this mean I can get excited regarding this one I saw in County Durham just over a year ago. I don't think so allthough it was about the end of April I saw it so the timing is roughly about the same.

I still think these birds are escapees but would be delighted to be proved wrong.

[CJW]

It's been fairly quiet recently, with only a couple of dodgy Chiffchaffs to discuss. Looks like someone is trying to brighten a dull period....ESCAPE!!!!

[SRWilliams]

Surely we should weigh up all the facts before assigning records to the dustbin of 'Escape'.... I won't be going to see it - but that doesn't mean I think it is (or is not) an escape!

Jane (I'm confident Jane did) or anyone else for that matter, should be encouraged to send their records of likely escapes into their local county recorders (where they can be assigned as escapes but re-evaluated in the future as a potential pattern of vagrancy emerges....???)

If I saw Cin Teal on the pond on my local patch in the middle of an October howling westerly gale I would enjoy it!

On the one hand, Cin Teals seem to be fairly frequent escapees - on the otherhand the Western Isles this winter has been awesome to say the least (in terms of N America vagrants).....?

I enjoyed the Bufflehead at Astely Moss earlier in the spring - and the previous one in Nottingham, I also enjoyed the Peasholm Park Hooded Merg - although it did not look as good as the female on the river in Anglesey (until that bird revealed its plastic origins!)

I hope it (the Cin Teal) was ringed in the states!

Cheers
Steve

[SRWilliams]

I forgot to mention the Varied Thrush in Iceland - what a cracker and the Semi-p Plover there, not to mention all the other yankee stuff they had last autumn.

Of course I know escapes can turn up at vagrant hot spots as well, I am just saying - collate all the facts before judging...

Cheers
Steve

[CJW]

I'm happy to be proved wrong, Steve.

[tom mckinney]

It's wild.

It was first seen in October 2002 on the Azores. It has an unusual marking on its bill that IDs it as this specific individual.

No known escape wildfowl on the Azores.

How about that for proof!?

[CJW]

Were that it were true, Tom.
Funny though!

[tom mckinney]

It's true!!!!..................

[CJW]

Yes, Tom.

[tom mckinney]

.............well not really.

I reckon its as wild as any other Yank duck.

This is my motto

TICK ACCORDING TO YOUR CONSCIENCE

I have no conscience and as a result of this will be going to the Western Isles.

[tom mckinney]

Chris,

If that were true would you tick it?

Would that be enough evidence?

[CJW]

But, but , you said it WAS true! I've just booked a flight off the island to go for it.

[SRWilliams]

Chris - I was just trying to stir things up as it is so quiet at the moment I can't even hear any Iberian Chiffies!

Let's hope it is the calm before the birding storm this weekend, when I can go out birding and forget about work!

Anyway, how would you (Chris) react to finding a Cin Teal next to a G-w Teal on the IOM in October ??? (Be honest!)

I think Tom's conscience is similar to mine. However, the last time I was on the Western Isles I was looking at a Steller's Eider, perhaps that was an escape/hybrid/aberrant - ? Such cynicism in one so young!

Cheers
Steve

[CJW]

Anyway, how would you (Chris) react to finding a Cin Teal next to a G-w Teal on the IOM in October ??? (Be honest!)
I'd submit it and wait to see what the verdict from the BBRC was. But I wouldn't be hopeful.

EDIT: But if I see this one on the Hebs. tomorrow (on the strength of what Tom says is true), I wouldn't care!

[SRWilliams]

I'd submit it and wait to see what the verdict from the BBRC was. But I wouldn't be hopeful.

Does that mean that you are a 'pure' lister, awaiting the verdict of the BBRC (and presumably the BOU)?

What happens if you put in a record which you are abosolutely 100% convinced of, because you've seen hundreds before abroad etc and yet BBRC reject it, because they're not 100% convinced by your description ....

tick or not to tick??

Cheers
Steve
PS Can you tell I'm bored?

EDIT: Missed your edit, fair enough!

[CJW]

Tick it ofcourse. I'm happy to wait and see what the verdict on a contentious bird is, but if I were 100% as to a bird's identity and origins then I know best. Not sure how i could be 100% certain as to any bird's origins though. Especially a poxy duck!

[SRWilliams]

I think IanF found this bird earlier in the spring - and it has continued it's northward journey (having been initially found on the Azores of course) - must be genuine!

(Ian if you're out there is yours still there? It may save several people a trip to Western Isles!)

[tom mckinney]

Little & Temminck's Stint are regularly kept in captivity.

[CJW]

Don't worry Steve, if it gets rejected, I'll just send the bill for my travel expenses to Tom and his source of dodgy information ;)

[SRWilliams]

Don't worry Steve, if it gets rejected, I'll just send the bill for my travel expenses to Tom and his source of dodgy information ;)

Now I've got double figures for posts, I'm actually going to do some work... ;)

The Cin Teal is now "first on" some of the bird information services.

I may go for the R-n Duck on Anglesey at the weekend (as it is in the North West!) - is it an escape?

Cheers
Steve

[peteh]

i will put my 50p on it's wild.
Surely no escaped duck is going to bother to fly hundreds of miles just for a laugh.

(or does someone on the hebrides have a duck collection?)

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Actually I used to help feed the ducks in a Hebridean duck collection, although it was still much further south than Lewis. And there weren't any Cinnamon Teals there!

[tom mckinney]

I used to ... feed the ducks...


Anyone read Viz magazine? The "Profanisaurus" had a highly amusing definition for this.

PM me for the rather rude definition if you want.

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Fnarr!

[godwit]

I'm afraid the location of potentially rare wildfowl has little bearing on their likely 'wildness'. For example, here's the details the four Icelandic records of Black Swan

http://www.hi.is/~yannk/status_cygatr.html

Note how the majority are in the south-east, exactly where vagrants from Australia would be expected :-)

Dave

[Harry Hussey]

Hi all,
Hmm,things MUST be quiet!At least the Dibbinsdale chiffer has a chance of being an Iberian!Would I go for one here?Probably not:while I did go for the Cape Clear Redhead last July,at least that had decent credentials.I didn't travel for the mid-summer Hooded Merganser in Wicklow a few years back....
Harry

[Jane Turner]

I recall being vaguely peed off that mine wasn't a Shoveler..which would have been a house tick at the time.. and yes Steve... its submitted to the county recorder, though I failed to take the type of description that would have got it passed any serious scrutiny..

[tom mckinney]

Well it's certainly attracting a lot of interest.

I know a few people who are there as I type. One guy called me to say how smart it is and that he's now off for the Harlequin again whilst simultaneously picking up "a lot" of Corncrake. With a few white wings still in Stornoway Harbour as well and a brilliant place to be in May full stop I reckon its worth a trip.

See you there!

[tom mckinney]

.....and just incase anyone is interested, it has been seen out of the water this morning and is not ringed.....

[CJW]

Nay, we're still not banging on about this are we?

[sparrowbirder]

Dont escapes turn up in the western isles then!! Remember having a canvasback at my local reserve years before it was accepted on the British list,it was an escape then and would be one now as well!! Dont like wildfowl for this reason,always too much doubt about them!!Never twitched any great distance for one and never will!!Think birding these days has just turned into a sad ticking "frenzy"..

[Jasonbirder]

Think birding these days has just turned into a sad ticking "frenzy"

Err - at risk of being controversial surely a sad "ticker" is a person who`ll only bother to go and see a bird if he`s 100% certain its going to be accepted onto his beautiful little list by one rarities commitee or another - and won`t travel if there`s any likelyhood he`ll have wasted his time and money on something which in someone elses opinion can`t be counted

On the otherhand if you put in the £s, time and effort to travel to a beautiful location to see a cracking looking and interesting bird thats going to be discussed and debated (so as you can join in the debate with first hand knowledge - not based on what someone else has said and a blurry photo on surfbirds) in the knowledge that, in all likelihood its going to be rejected by the BBRC but have enjoyed it anyway and all the other fantastic birds around it like Harlequin Duck, White-tailed Eagle, Corncrake etc well that seems far more like a birder than a sad lister because for you its the bird that was important not the tick.

[godwit]

Oh come on Jason, that's clutching at straws and decidedly dodgy logic!

The money spent on going to the Hebrides to see this bird could (along with all of the money saved due to the conspicuous absence of other good rarities recently) have been put towards the cost of a trip to the Western USA where genuine Cinnamon Teals commonly occur - or donated to conservation. If it was just the bird that mattered why not go to Slimbridge to see one?

A real birder would be booking a holiday on the Hebrides in September or October in the hope of actually finding something good in this fabulous setting.

Dave

[Jasonbirder]

The money spent on going to the Hebrides to see this bird could have been put towards the cost of a trip to the Western USA where genuine Cinnamon Teals commonly occur
Unfortunately not all birders are teachers or students making it a damn site easier to go to Scotland at the weekend rather than the US for at least a week - besides I`ve seen plenty of US birds in the US - why would that put me off travelling to see them in the UK? Or following the same logic - i`ve seen 1000`s of Avocets so if someone told me there was one on my local patch I wouldn`t bother going to see that either?

I guess i`m just not a real birder by your high standards Godwit :(
I`ll live with it..,

[godwit]

The only problem I've got is with silly claims that going to see this bird is about something other than getting a (potential) tick. Regarding the time available: the travelling time to the Hebrides from most of Britain is roughtly the same as that of a flight to LA. That is unless you fly of course, in which case the cost is about the same as a flight to LA :-))

Dave

[sparrowbirder]

Ive just got a problem with the way things are going at the moment..ive recently had a supposed Iberian chiffchaff near me which everybody seemed to get very exciting about,I never bothered going to see it depite it being about 20 minutes away!! Ive seen many abroad and they look just like,er chiffchaffs ,despite the plumage fearures which suddenly seem to be springing up on various sites(why are these only coming out now the bird has been split) nobody seemed interested before!! ive got a problem with birds that can only be IDd by DNA,not exactly a major fieldmark is it (even song can be variable in this species..how many times before the split were the words.".that chiffchaff sounds weird" uttered ,many I think!!!

[Jasonbirder]

The only problem I've got is with silly claims that going to see this bird is about something other than getting a (potential) tick

There is little or no chance of the Cinnamon Teal ever being accepted - so its obviously not about a (potential) tick is it?

Lets be honest, even the most cynical would give it a 1 in 3 chance of being a wild bird - the most wildly optimistic wouldn`t give it a 1 in 1000 chance of being accepted by the BOU - not sure what that says?

[Jasonbirder]

I never bothered going to see it

???? Why on earth not - especially if it was on your doorstep - even if the ID was wrong it would have been worth a look surely.

[Tim Allwood]

got this one wrong - didn't see any in Peru - would be a 'tick' but i'll think i'll wait for one in some exotic location abroad........oh the joys of being a teacher!

ps you can come and try my 11EA4 group tomorrow morning if you like.....you'd realise why we need the time off!!!

[godwit]

"There is little or no chance of the Cinnamon Teal ever being accepted - so its obviously not about a (potential) tick is it?"

Jason,

I take it that you adhere strictly to the official (BOU) British list when calculating what you can and can't count then?

Dave

[Jane Turner]

A real birder would be booking a holiday on the Hebrides in September or October in the hope of actually finding something good in this fabulous setting.

Dave

Dave - whereas I'd never been seen dead looking at a Cinnamon Teal... I'd say late May on the Outer Hebs is a good shout for finding something...

I fancy an American Sparrow on North Uist...there has been a few vigourous depressions...maybe a Yellowthroat!

[Tim Allwood]

Veery or Yellow Warbler?

[Jane Turner]

Stilt Sand.. the possibilities are endless!

[Edward]

I'm afraid the location of potentially rare wildfowl has little bearing on their likely 'wildness'. For example, here's the details the four Icelandic records of Black Swan

http://www.hi.is/~yannk/status_cygatr.html

Note how the majority are in the south-east, exactly where vagrants from Australia would be expected :-)

Dave

You know Dave, we got very excited once when we saw a ringed one here which had in clear letters, "PERTH" on the left leg. But when it turned round the right one said "TAYSIDE"

We've also got a Mandarin Duck knocking around at the moment in the far north-east of the country, just below the Arctic Circle. Just where you'd expect a vagrant to come over the pole from Korea and China ;-)

E

[SRWilliams]

Ive just got a problem with the way things are going at the moment..ive recently had a supposed Iberian chiffchaff near me which everybody seemed to get very exciting about,I never bothered going to see it depite it being about 20 minutes away!! Ive seen many abroad and they look just like,er chiffchaffs ,despite the plumage fearures which suddenly seem to be springing up on various sites(why are these only coming out now the bird has been split) nobody seemed interested before!! ive got a problem with birds that can only be IDd by DNA,not exactly a major fieldmark is it (even song can be variable in this species..how many times before the split were the words.".that chiffchaff sounds weird" uttered ,many I think!!!

I'm guessing much of your post(s) are intended to get people going - judging by the number of exclamation marks!! I think it has worked on one or two!! Things need to be stirred up.

However, I'm not sure why you've got a problem with the 'way things are going'....if you want to go and see it go, if not don't!

Some people like trying to ID very difficult (some say impossible!) birds - others like seeing and hearing Wood Warblers in their local woods. Some like ringing others like twitching. None of these are mutually exclusive - I enjoy them all to greater or lesser degrees.

EDIT: Jane I would prefer Fox Sparrow in a north Wirral garden!!

[Jane Turner]

EDIT: Jane I would prefer Fox Sparrow in a north Wirral garden!!

Not today I'm afraid!

[Swift]

It would seem that a drake Bufflehead is now present on Lewis!!!

[Jane Turner]

Seems all lost wildfowl are collecting in one place.... will be casting doubt on the Harlequin if they keep this up :)

[Richard Ford]

I had a C Teal on my local patch last year, and have seen up to five together in the area within the last decade, there’s still the odd sighting at frensham ponds, and i expect there are others roaming the country. Nice birds but it never crossed my mind they were wild. Then again i live near Birdworld (a large collection) and have seen Ringed Teal, Blue winged Teal, Black Swans, White Stork, Flamingos, Reeves Pheasant, Peking Robin, Sacred Ibis, The odd Macaw and other parrots free flying in the area over the years..