this is a goose...

[viking]

this is maybe not the right forum , but Im just curious. I took this picture today.
Its probably a mix between greylag goose and...?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Viking,

It is a Bar-headed Goose (Anser indicus), escaped from a zoo. In the wild, they breed in Tibet and winter in northern India

Michael

[viking]

Michael thanks

its rare to find them over here so it was not listed in my bird book... ;) A new specie for me

Hi Viking,

It is a Bar-headed Goose (Anser indicus), escaped from a zoo. In the wild, they breed in Tibet and winter in northern India

Michael

[Steve]

How do you KNOW its escaped from a zoo ?

[samuel walker]

Hi Viking Yes a barheaded goose.If you see "Winged Migration"the movie they have a large segment in it
Sam

[ashrich]

Hi guys , I believe that Sweden has a feral population of Bar Headed Goose , we get a few , also , on a gravel pit in Maidenhead , Berkshire and a few just outside Reading , also Berks .

Ashley.

[alkumaheerd]

In Holland we get quit a few of those (inter-)breeding, so in the winter when you are scanning large flocks of geese you can find all sorts of Bar-headish hybrids like the ones in this picture

[very boring banned member]

In Holland we get quit a few of those (inter-)breeding, so in the winter when you are scanning large flocks of geese you can find all sorts of Bar-headish hybrids like the ones in this picture
Those Anser caerulescens X indicus hybrids or what?

[alkumaheerd]

Don't know! I never quite figured out what they were and I guess some of those hybrids are just unidentifiable. They looked a bit too small for caerulescens X indicus, but then there are of course a lot different races of caerulescens which I think also differ in size.

[Michael Frankis]

Don't know! I never quite figured out what they were and I guess some of those hybrids are just unidentifiable. They looked a bit too small for caerulescens X indicus, but then there are of course a lot different races of caerulescens which I think also differ in size.
My guess would be for Anser indicus x Branta leucopsis

Michael

[very boring banned member]

How about leucistic indicus? Look like indicus, only their heads & tails are white..

[alkumaheerd]

Don't think so, they looked not as heavy as true indicus, only just a bit bigger than the Barnacles in the flock. Furthermore, the neck pattern seems wrong if you just leave out some colour: that would still produce a white stripe down the side of the neck, not a black one.

[very boring banned member]

My guess would be for Anser indicus x Branta leucopsis

Michael
Why leucopsis?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Karwin,

Not least because that is what they are associating with - if you have a lone escaped goose, the bird it is most likely to pair up and breed with, is the species it has found itself among (yes, there's A. albifrons there too, but I can't see any influence of that!). Also the round head with shorter stubbier bill, and the paler flanks, than I'd expect on A. indicus. But looking again, they could equally just be leucistic or partial albino (or an ornamental-selected breed) pure A. indicus. Perhaps most odd is that the tail appears to be all-white, no goose has that naturally (except Snow & Ross's), so maybe leucistic is a better answer.

Michael

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi all,
My suspicion is that they are Anser indicus x canagicus (Emperor goose has the all white tail; Colours would also fit-and the head pattern would be intermediate between those species, also the coloration of bare parts would fit and the round head with stubby bill would also be a good fit if the second parent is Anser canagicus,
another indicator for canagicus is that there are grey feathers within the white rear parts which are white in all other geese except A. canagicus
furthermore both species are quite commonly kept in captivity because of their beautyful coloration and escape frequently)

if they were Branta leucopsis hybrids, I´d expect the black on the neck would extend onto the breast (seems to be a general feature ofhybrid combinations involving barnacle goose- as it does in Greylag-Banacle goose hybrids, in Emperor-Barnacle goose hybrids, in LWFG-Barnacle hybrids and in Canada-Barnacle goose hybrids.)

Jörn

[alkumaheerd]

I had not really thought of Emperor Goose yet, because I rarely see them as escapes. However, there have been quite a few reports of escaped Emperors in this area as well as hybrids involving canagicus parenthood. The plumage and bare part colouration certainly seem to fit. As for the remark on the "surrounding" Geese as a clue to the origin of the hybrids: apart from the Barnacle Geese and Greater White-fronted Geese visible in the picture there were in a 1 Km (Sorry, 0.624 mile) radius also Greylag Geese, Pink-footed geese, Both Tundra and Taiga Bean Geese, Greater and Lesser Canada Geese and a single Dark-bellied Brent Goose (which is not common around here since I am about 15 km's from the nearest sea-shore).
Just two more months and the first geese will return, why did they ever introduce summers? I remember: Dragonflies and Hoverflies!

[Joern Lehmhus]

On this site there is a hybrid with similar coloration and appearance

http://www.specialbirds.nl/fotos/fotos.php?kijk=2&id=34&categorie=2;

again I think it is Anser indicus x canagicus

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Joern,

As it is also a Dutch site, I would guess the same individual?

But where would the Anser canagicus be coming from? - they are not at all common in captivity, compared to many other ornamental geese. What about Ross's Goose or Snow Goose (perhaps blue phase?) as an alternative parent?

Michael

[Ranger James]

Look like a couple of juvenile bar heads to me?
James

[alkumaheerd]

Indeed, very similar bird (much better picture though!). It could even be the same bird, Eext is less than 20 kilometres away (as the crow/goose flies) from where I took my pictures.
According to Madge & Burn juvenile Bar-headed always have dark on the head, but perhaps there are also forms with completely white heads?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi James,

The mantle & coverts feathers are broad, almost squared-off, which means they are adults (both Jaap's pic and Joern's link). Juvenile geese have more rounded tips to these feathers

Michael

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi James,
Michael mentioned why these birds are surely adults. A juvenile A. indicus would also have a dark back part of the neck, going up til the back of the head; whereas these 3 birds have " the white back neck area of Emperor goose above the neck pattern of Bar-headed goose". I hope this is understandable?

Hi Jaap,
I never saw , heard or read about a variant in neck pattern of A. indicus juveniles, so I assumed I can exclude that possibility.

Hi Michael,

Emperor goose is not the commonest goose in captivity in Germany, but fairly common (every zoo I visited inthe last years had at least a few, sometimes with young and you also see them at waterfowl keepers or breeders-Ross goose and snow goose seem to be more uncommon here). Also in the Netherlands, Emperor geese occur in private collections; and as Jaap mentions there were escaped individuals around in the area. So I think it is likely ; together with some features common in emperor goose hybrids-for example dark feathers in the white area around the tail- you see this characteristic in both photographs.

Joern

[Michael Frankis]

Emperor goose is not the commonest goose in captivity in Germany, but fairly common (every zoo I visited inthe last years had at least a few, sometimes with young and you also see them at waterfowl keepers or breeders-Ross goose and snow goose seem to be more uncommon here). Also in the Netherlands, Emperor geese occur in private collections; and as Jaap mentions there were escaped individuals around in the area. So I think it is likely ; together with some features common in emperor goose hybrids-for example dark feathers in the white area around the tail- you see this characteristic in both photographs.Hi Joern,

Thanks; interesting that Emperor should be so much commoner in Germany than here; conversely Snow and Ross's are very popular here (I'll have to dig out the figures mentioned a few years ago in British Birds, but it was I think about 800 Ross's registered, and registration is voluntary so the real number will be higher)

Michael

[Joern Lehmhus]

I´d also have to dig for actual numbers- which is difficult for me now , having too much work. But in a month or so it ´ll be more quiet, I hope.

Bar -headed goose is also fairly common in captivity here and of both species I have also seen escapes in Germany- but neither of Snow or Ross(but those also occur here, saw also reports of those from odd places)

jörn

[Ranger James]

Thanks for the pointers guys - didn't know about the sqaured off feathers. Something futrther to look for in the field.

James