Organising a pelagic - need tips!

[Edward]

Now that July is upon us, a few of us have decided to organise the first Icelandic pelagic. It's a bit of a disgrace that a a great seafaring nation like Iceland has never had a proper birding trip at sea with chum and all and we aim to rectify the situation in mid-August. We suspect the waters south of Iceland may have great potential, especially from the island chain Vestmannaeyjar which has the WP's largest Leach's Petrel colony (but this is still a bird which is almost never seen from land). The problem is that as we've never done it before we need some tips especially regarding stuff like chum. We know we need a boat (check), and the sea (check) but apart from that..... We aim to be out all day, or until we find that Audubon's Shearwater...

I've found a few recipes for chum on the net but how much of this stuff do people use? A bucket full, several buckets full, gallons and gallons?

DMS? Is it worthwhile? I've read that it's pretty noxious stuff so is it a good idea to be chucking it into the sea? How much do you use - a few drops in the chum or just pour it in?

What do you do with the chum? Drag it behind the boat in a mesh? Or stop the boat chuck it out and wait (I can foresee great bouts of seasickness already)?

Is it good to use popcorn to make the stuff float? Or bread?

All tips from pelagic veterans most gratefully received.

E
(in very sunny Reykjavík)

[tom mckinney]

All tips from pelagic veterans most gratefully received.

E
(in very sunny Reykjavík)

Hi Edward,

I'm not exactly a veteran, but I've been on a few, and my only advice is to leave your sense of shame behind you at the dockside, as you will almost certainly spew your guts over board! On a pelagic off Scilly last year 100% of passengers and crew sucumbed to it!

However, if you eat the right things you just might attract that Wandering Albatross or Matsudaira's Storm Petrel. Try eating a mix of popcorn and mackerel before you go and wash it down with a few pints of Guiness and Whisky - just to make sure, you know!

B (: :eat: :eek!:

Remember to have fun....

....BBLLLLLLLEEEEEEUUUURRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Edward,

Chum - chop up fresh oily fish (Mackerel are best), mix with rice krispies and cheap cooking oil to a thick slurry. Get about 10-20 litres of oil, 10 XL size packs rice krispies. The fresher the fish, the better - forget all the stuff about rotten being best, it isn't true; best of all, take a few rods & lines and catch as you go. Failing whole fresh fish, any fresh fish guts. Don't bother with cod skeletons (the most easily available fish waste), they are useless. Also don't use corn flakes, as they sink (rice krispies float)

Don't start chumming until you're far enough offshore to be well clear of the big gulls. Then put down a large slick of chum, and stay around it for 2-3 hours at least.

Dimethyl sulphide (DMS) is only toxic in concentration; in small amounts, it is harmless, and naturally occurring in plankton etc. If you have some, add about 1 ml per litre of chum.

Leach's Petrels don't come to chum, so don't expect to see them other than flying past (so keep scanning the middle distance constantly). Stormies do, so do Wilson's. Sooty Shears love chunky bits of Mackerel and come really close in (down to 1m or less from the boat). Manxies, like Leach's, won't come near. Keep checking the Kittiwakes, one of them will be a Sabine's flying over. Skuas: Great, Pom and Long-tailed all come in close, Arctic won't, they stay on the fringes of the flock if at all.

If you find any whales, stick close to them, as lots of seabirds also follow whales.

Good luck!

Michael

[Darrell Clegg]

DMS is the most evil smelling substance in the world. Be very careful and don't actively sniff it!

I carried some in the car from Plymouth to Penzance for the Scillonian Pelagic. It came in a huge box well packed with polystyrene. Inside was a tiny phial - that's how noxious it can be.

Having said that, it really does work


Darrell

[Michael Frankis]

DMS is the most evil smelling substance in the world. Be very careful and don't actively sniff it!
I once made some in chemistry at school . . . stank the place out. :king:

Smells like rotten cabbage or decaying potatoes (not too surprising as they both produce DMS)

Michael

[Glen Tepke]

On a couple of pelagics I did in North Carolina the crew used what I think was pure fish chum. They used a ladle to frequently drop small amounts overboard for extended periods. The idea was to create a long, very thin ribbon of oil that the birds would follow to its source. Another tactic was to apply larger amounts to create a more substantial slick and then circle around and revisit the slick. On a trip out of Monterey, California, they used popcorn with no fish at all. The theory was that gulls would follow the boat for the popcorn and procellarids would come to see what the gulls were getting. That also seemed to work pretty well. Good luck. Glen

[Edward]

Thanks for the info chaps.

Tom you remind me of the time I went Blue Whale watching off the west coast of Iceland. I'd always considered myself a good sailor and never been seasick but when the boat stopped to look for the whales it was sheer hell. We saw two Blue Whales, one very close but I remember just thinking at one point "s*d these damn whales, get me onto land." As soon as we got going again it was fine. Mackerel, popcorn and Guinness makes me ill just thinking about it.

Good to hear that fresh fish works best in your experience Michael. I had envisaged three weeks' worth of rotting fish in the boot of my car. I'll handle the DMS with care, Darrell. Thanks for the tips on applying the chum Glen.

E

[Gaukur]

Hi Edward... and then to Icelandic language...

Þá ertu búinn að fá fína uppskrift af "chum". Ég óska eftir plássi um borð! Það þarf nátt'lega að sitja um sem allra best veður fyrir landkrabbana.

[Michael Frankis]

The theory was that gulls would follow the boat for the popcorn and procellarids would come to see what the gulls were getting. That also seemed to work pretty well. Good luck. Glen
Hasn't been so successful here - on our pelagics, we suspect that petrels avoid large gulls, not too surprising when a petrel is an easy small snack for a Herring Gull. That's why we try to get away from most of them.


never been seasick but when the boat stopped
True, don't stop the boat. Keep moving very slowly in circles round the chum slick, that way you avoid the really bad rocking. Even just half a knot should be enough.

Michael

[Glen Tepke]

Hasn't been so successful here - on our pelagics, we suspect that petrels avoid large gulls, not too surprising when a petrel is an easy small snack for a Herring Gull. That's why we try to get away from most of them.

On the California trip, the tubenoses that were attracted by the popcorn/gulls were larger species -- albatrosses, shearwaters and fulmar. We also saw storm-petrels (Ashy and Black) but those did not approach the boat -- we approached them when we spotted a flock. We didn't see any gadfly petrels on that trip -- none were expected -- so I don't know how the popcorn would have worked for them.

In North Carolina, storm-petrels (Wilson's and Band-rumped) and shearwaters (Greater, Sooty, Cory's, Audubon's) did seem to be attracted by the fish chum and would approach or follow the boat. Black-capped Petrel seemed indifferent. Glen

[Chris Mason]

Hi Edward.
I have recently satrted running pelagic trips out of Falmouth, Cornwall and i would like to let you know how I proceeced.
Everybody knows that you need chum of some discription to enable close views of pelagic sea birds, but we also know the smell can be a little off putting. I feel that i have over come this problem by bagging the chum. First i start off with a 80 letre black dust bin. Fill this to no more than 3/4 full, with fish (I have been using Pilchards and Macerel), Chop this up with a spade, the more chopping the better (i also mince some through a hand mincer). Then add fish oil and cooking oil about 20 litres will nearly fill the bin, and then give it a good stir, put the lid back on and leave for a couple days (this helps it to break down a little better). After a couple of days get some heavy duty plastic bags ( i use 5o Kg unused fertilizer bags) put a couple of boxes of rice crispies in the bottom and a couple loafs of bread broken up, then stir the chum 1 final time and pour using a bucket into the bags. I fill about 4 bags with 1 dustbin. Using cable ties goose neck the bags and tie them off. These bags are then ready to put over the side of the boat with rope, and then when required put small slits in the bags. This works well from my experience.
Working a 1 mile line of chum helps stop the sea sickness.

Hopes this helps

Chris

[Edward]

Hi Edward.
I have recently satrted running pelagic trips out of Falmouth, Cornwall and i would like to let you know how I proceeced.
Everybody knows that you need chum of some discription to enable close views of pelagic sea birds, but we also know the smell can be a little off putting. I feel that i have over come this problem by bagging the chum. First i start off with a 80 letre black dust bin. Fill this to no more than 3/4 full, with fish (I have been using Pilchards and Macerel), Chop this up with a spade, the more chopping the better (i also mince some through a hand mincer). Then add fish oil and cooking oil about 20 litres will nearly fill the bin, and then give it a good stir, put the lid back on and leave for a couple days (this helps it to break down a little better). After a couple of days get some heavy duty plastic bags ( i use 5o Kg unused fertilizer bags) put a couple of boxes of rice crispies in the bottom and a couple loafs of bread broken up, then stir the chum 1 final time and pour using a bucket into the bags. I fill about 4 bags with 1 dustbin. Using cable ties goose neck the bags and tie them off. These bags are then ready to put over the side of the boat with rope, and then when required put small slits in the bags. This works well from my experience.
Working a 1 mile line of chum helps stop the sea sickness.

Hopes this helps

Chris


Many thanks Chris, excellent tips there.

Now we just have to find a volunteer to take the chum in the boot of his car and on to the ferry to the island (from where the pelagic boat goes from!)

E

[CJW]

Where do I get hold of DMS?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Chris (M),


and leave for a couple days
Are you sure this is best? - my experience is very definitely the fresher, the better. The best response of all has been with Mackerel caught on the pelagic and cut up immediately. Think too of the huge flocks of birds that follow trawlers, which are also putting out very fresh stuff

----------

Hi Chris (W),


Where do I get hold of DMS?
Probably very difficult now, with modern health & safety regs. I made it at school by refluxing sodium sulphide with ethyl bromide, but getting those two is not going to be easy either (and I wouldn't recommend this anyway, as any ethyl bromide traces left in the product would be bad for birds). If you're on good terms with your local chemist, see if he can get some.

Michael

[CJW]

Hi Chris (W),



Probably very difficult now, with modern health & safety regs. I made it at school by refluxing sodium sulphide with ethyl bromide, but getting those two is not going to be easy either (and I wouldn't recommend this anyway, as any ethyl bromide traces left in the product would be bad for birds). If you're on good terms with your local chemist, see if he can get some.

Michael
It's OK thanks, I've located a source.
Has anyone tried using it off the land rather than having to go out on a boat?

[Michael Frankis]

Has anyone tried using it off the land rather than having to go out on a boat?No, but I can't see it working - I'd suspect that (a) it is already produced naturally as a component of tide wrack, and that (b) petrels' fear of the dangers of land-based predators would be enough to keep them away and over-ride any desire to investigate potential food. Maybe try at night with a few drops under a mist net, instead of tapes, and see if that works?

Michael

[Chris Mason]

Hi Chris (M),



Are you sure this is best? - my experience is very definitely the fresher, the better. The best response of all has been with Mackerel caught on the pelagic and cut up immediately. Think too of the huge flocks of birds that follow trawlers, which are also putting out very fresh stuff



Hi Chris (W),



Probably very difficult now, with modern health & safety regs. I made it at school by refluxing sodium sulphide with ethyl bromide, but getting those two is not going to be easy either (and I wouldn't recommend this anyway, as any ethyl bromide traces left in the product would be bad for birds). If you're on good terms with your local chemist, see if he can get some.

Michael

Hi Michael

I will be trying a fresh bag of chum on the next trip along with the older stuff. will post my results.

I also have found that you get same birds when you don't use DMS as when you do use it. Is there any need to be totally natural?

Thanks Chris Mason
----------

[Edward]

I'm having trouble getting DMS in Iceland. What kind of places can you get it from in the UK? Who is your dealer? And Michael F, I dropped chemistry in third year at school so refluxing whatchymecallit with thingybob is not an option ;-)

E

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Edward,

Should be available from most chemicals suppliers - try a google search (hint: you may get better results with the American spelling Dimethyl sulfide)

Seems to be a very interesting compound, apparently marine production of it by plankton has a major influence on cloud formation and climatic stability generally

Has anyone thought of using DHMO in chum? More info on this very interesting substance here:
http://www.dhmo.org/dihydrogen-monoxide/

Michael

[Andrew]

Is this the stuff used in stink bombs?

[Jasonbirder]

Ho ho ho - Di-Hydrogen - mono-oxide eh! Its well know as a bird attractant - in large enough quantities i beleive wildfowl find it irresistable!

[Michael Frankis]

Ho ho ho - Di-Hydrogen - mono-oxide eh! Its well know as a bird attractant - in large enough quantities i beleive wildfowl find it irresistable!
So some say, but I've also come across birds killed by it. I once found a Redwing that had died as a result of prolonged exposure to solid DHMO, and a brood of Spotted Flycatcher chicks that died as a result of the nest becoming filled with liquid DHMO

Michael

[Chris Mason]

So some say, but I've also come across birds killed by it. I once found a Redwing that had died as a result of prolonged exposure to solid DHMO, and a brood of Spotted Flycatcher chicks that died as a result of the nest becoming filled with liquid DHMO

Michael

Hi

Why can we not just carry out bird watching without using chemicals in concentrations that we have no full understanding of how it effects the birds and the whole environment.
Fishing boats can attract the most numerous amounts of sea birds, do they have to use chemicals.

Just a thought

Chris

[Grousemore]

Seems a very wise thought to me.

[Jasonbirder]

I guess some of us are just selfish - whilst perhaps I shouldn`t because of the potential dangers it can bring, I myself always make sure I leave a small quantity of DHMO (Dihydrogen monoxide) in the vicinity of my bird feeders in the garden - particularly in the summer months (when the higher air tempretures cause rapid evaporation) it is succesful in attracting larger than expected numbers of birds and species to the garden.
Maybe I ought to rethink what i`m doing?
;)

[Charles Harper]

Lots of advice. Edward, but I'll second Glen's comments in particular. I helped administer the Los Angeles pelagics for three years, and chummed mostly with popcorn and some occasional dippers of fish oil, once we got out into the open Pacific, cruising slowly and creating a long line of oil and gulls-- and shearwaters-- behind us.

Get a good night's sleep and eat a light breakfast.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi

Why can we not just carry out bird watching without using chemicals in concentrations that we have no full understanding of how it effects the birds and the whole environment.
Fishing boats can attract the most numerous amounts of sea birds, do they have to use chemicals.

Just a thought

Chris
Hi Chris,

The effects of DHMO on birds and the environment are well understood, just not well known among the general public.

I'm actually aware of numerous cases of large numbers of seabirds being killed by DHMO inhalation as a direct result of the activities of fishing boats. The same boats also commonly cause heavy mortality among fish by adverse DHMO contact problems

Michael

[alan_rymer]

Thanks for the info about DHMO!.
I have just done some research on it and now realise what effect it could have on the well being/or not, of our wildlife population.

[Edward]

Lots of advice. Edward, but I'll second Glen's comments in particular. I helped administer the Los Angeles pelagics for three years, and chummed mostly with popcorn and some occasional dippers of fish oil, once we got out into the open Pacific, cruising slowly and creating a long line of oil and gulls-- and shearwaters-- behind us.

Get a good night's sleep and eat a light breakfast.

Thanks for the tips Charles. Do people go on pelagics in Japan?

I've underestimated the effect of seasickness once and when you're really suffering a Great Auk could swim past and you wouldn't give a damn. A light breakfast of thinly-sliced puffin breast on toast it is then.

E

[Jasonbirder]

Seasickness can be a killer - whilst suffering you really just feel like you want to curl up and die - i`m a terrible sailor - but strangely enough always perk up and forget about it when there`s a bird to be seen.
Plenty of bottled water and boiled sweets to take the taste away always helpful I find!

[tom mckinney]

boiled sweets

BBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUURR RRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm off to Scilly 1st week of August for the evening pelagics (proper British Fea's, Wilson's, Red-billed Tropicbird, Wandering Albatross, Matsudaira's & Swinhoe's side by side for comparison etc...) and I know that I will be sick on every trip. Always am, always will be. And that's the fun of pelagics ... err ... maybe not.

[Michael Frankis]

and I know that I will be sick on every trip. Always am, always will be. And that's the fun of pelagics ... err ... maybe not.
Never been sick on one yet ;) . . . did get a bit queezy on the one in a little boat out in the four metre high waves though . . .

[Charles Harper]

As with much here, I am poorly aware of what the Japanese birdwatching contingent can get up to, Edward. Visitors, however, must content themselves with any of several inter-island ferry routes. The WBSJ last year was flogging a trip out to otherwise-inaccessible Torishima Island (sole breeding site for Short-tailed Albatross)-- two days, 70,000 yen ($650/£ 350). A little rich for my blood.

[Charles Harper]

Further thoughts, Edward-- don't know whether these are no-brainers or not:

How many participants do you expect? Re boat size-- it should be big enough to span those waves, so you don't get beaten to death, lose your bins overboard, or start heaving before you get past the breakwater; but small enough to maneuver back onto your chum trail or take off briskly toward that little black alcid at 9 o'clock. (And stability is a big big big concern for viewing too of course.)

Which reminds me that you need to come to a pre-sail agreement as to how to indicate direction and altitude of a sighting: '12 o'clock' is dead ahead, of course, 'above' or 'below horizon', f'lying L' or 'R' should do it.

And be sure the layout of the boat allows birders to get to the bow, and preferably on top for a 360° view.

[Edward]

Further thoughts, Edward-- don't know whether these are no-brainers or not:

How many participants do you expect? Re boat size-- it should be big enough to span those waves, so you don't get beaten to death, lose your bins overboard, or start heaving before you get past the breakwater; but small enough to maneuver back onto your chum trail or take off briskly toward that little black alcid at 9 o'clock. (And stability is a big big big concern for viewing too of course.)

Which reminds me that you need to come to a pre-sail agreement as to how to indicate direction and altitude of a sighting: '12 o'clock' is dead ahead, of course, 'above' or 'below horizon', f'lying L' or 'R' should do it.

And be sure the layout of the boat allows birders to get to the bow, and preferably on top for a 360° view.

Thanks Charles,

They are important considerations. I don't think we'll get more than 10 people (Icelandic birding scene is small) so we won't be sailing on the QE2. We're going to talk to a few salty sea dogs over the next week to get an idea of what kind of boat we can expect. One of the whalewatching boats would be ideal but in August they'll be all, well, whalewatching.

And if we do see a little black alcid that we don't recognise in our part of the Atlantic then it's going to be a stupendous find (Iceland did have a Crested Auklet in 1912 - a bit before my time)!


E

[Edward]

Hi Chris,

The effects of DHMO on birds and the environment are well understood, just not well known among the general public.

I'm actually aware of numerous cases of large numbers of seabirds being killed by DHMO inhalation as a direct result of the activities of fishing boats. The same boats also commonly cause heavy mortality among fish by adverse DHMO contact problems

Michael


Bit thick me, the penny has only dropped now, one week later, about the DHMO business!! Well I was a language and lit man at university, and dropped sciences as soon as I could. That's my excuse!!!

E