Hmmm.. so, which Nikon?

[birdman]

Tried to have a good look through the threads in this forum to help me decide what I want to do... and got a bit bogged down to be honest.

So, help please from all of you out there in BF land.

The time is getting very close when I will be buying my first "good" scope. Like most of us, I haven't got all the money in the world, so I've been keeping tabs on the deals at Warehouse Express.

Now that the cheap Swaros seem to be sold out, I think I am down to a choice of two... either the Nikon EDIII with 40Wx and case for £399 or the ED78 with 38Wx for £549.

Obviously the ED78 is the better bargain at almost £1000 below rrp, but I'm a bit concerned about some of the comments regarding its water resistance. The EDIII is cheaper outright, of course, and seems very robust, but is it actually beter Value For Money. And if it is, is the 78 still not generally "better".

Everyone seems to love the ED82, but that requires an outlay closer to £900, which I think is not on, as I need to get a decent tripod as well, plus straps and such.

I'd be happy to hear your opinions.

Thanks :t:

[Hermann]

Now that the cheap Swaros seem to be sold out, I think I am down to a choice of two... either the Nikon EDIII with 40Wx and case for £399 or the ED78 with 38Wx for £549.

That depends on what you want to do. If you do a lot of walking and if you're not that much interested in serious digiscoping, I'd go for the EDIII. The weight and size difference is quite substantial, and the better weather proofing is also nice, especially in your kind of climate. The weight and size difference also means, BTW, that you can get away with a slightly less stable (=heavy) tripod.

If you usually don't walk more than a couple of miles at most with your gear, prefer birding in the sunshine and want to use the scope for digiscoping on a gloomy day in November, you're much better off with the ED78.

Optically both scopes are excellent. You can't go wrong with either of them. But do yourself a favour - get the new zoom in addition to fixed eyepiece. It's very, very convenient, and in quite a few situations being able to crank up the magnification makes all the difference between getting an ID and *almost* getting it.

And get yourself a decent stay-on-case. The Nikon marks quite easily, and a good stay-on-case is almost essential. I've got the Skua case on my EDIIIA, and it saved me from having to buy a new scope at least twice.

Hermann

[Dave B Smith]

Can't help much on the decision but can give you a few comments. I have the EDIII 60 and LOVE it. It is waterproof and has been used in the rain (when you find a White-crowned Parrot, you just got to look at it no matter the weather!). But on the suggestion of a zoom eyepiece, if you get this scope Nikon recommends the 20 to 45X zoom as there is not enough light to use the 60X to advantage.

When I bought mine the ED III 82 was not yet on the market so the decision was between the same two scopes you are looking at. I opted for the 60 because of the design and waterproof features more than for the weight difference.

Everyone that digiscopes says you need 80 mm though, so consider this in your choice. I'm considering the EDIII 82 for this reason but it will be a while, and then I'll also need to buy the higher powered eyepiece to take full advantage of the scope.

[Hermann]

But on the suggestion of a zoom eyepiece, if you get this scope Nikon recommends the 20 to 45X zoom as there is not enough light to use the 60X to advantage.

I've got both zooms, and while the 20-45x seems somewhat easier to use (I find eye placement isn't quite as critical with it,) the 20-60x is better. With the 20-45x image quality drops notably at about 40x, whereas with the 20-60x the image is sharp up to 60x. The magnifications between 45x and 55x times are often quite useful, at least in my experience.

Hermann

[Bluetail]

As far as the straps go, the Nikon stay-on case that came with my ED82 had straps included. Plastic clasps, though. They seem pretty robust, but I wouldn't want to test them severely...

[ashrich]

Hi , sorry for butting in , but isn't the £ 399 Nikon deal in Warehouse for a non ED Nikon 111 c/w 40x and case ? , ED comes to £ 809 angled or £ 769 straight , or have I missed something terribly cheap !!

Ashley.

[Leif]

Tried to have a good look through the threads in this forum to help me decide what I want to do... and got a bit bogged down to be honest.

So, help please from all of you out there in BF land.

The time is getting very close when I will be buying my first "good" scope. Like most of us, I haven't got all the money in the world, so I've been keeping tabs on the deals at Warehouse Express.

Now that the cheap Swaros seem to be sold out, I think I am down to a choice of two... either the Nikon EDIII with 40Wx and case for £399 or the ED78 with 38Wx for £549.

Obviously the ED78 is the better bargain at almost £1000 below rrp, but I'm a bit concerned about some of the comments regarding its water resistance. The EDIII is cheaper outright, of course, and seems very robust, but is it actually beter Value For Money. And if it is, is the 78 still not generally "better".

Everyone seems to love the ED82, but that requires an outlay closer to £900, which I think is not on, as I need to get a decent tripod as well, plus straps and such.

I'd be happy to hear your opinions.

Thanks :t:

I am sure the 38x and 40x eyepieces are high quality, but is ~40x not a bit too much magnification for general use? You will get a narrow FOV and DOF compared with ~30x. Maybe someone with a 40x eyepiece can confirm or disagree?

[birdman]

I was concerned about the mag of the eyepieces, Leif, reading elsewhere that perhaps 25x is the best compromise between mag and FOV. But I figured - perhaps incorrectly? - that the Wide Angles would increase the field of view making 38x or 40x more suitable (but avoiding the 50x that is also on offer). Hadn't really considered a zoom on the basis that is might ultimate be lower quality than non-zoom lenses - surely something has to give or else there would only be zooms on the market?

Ashley, thanks for butting in... you are exactly right, I inadvertantly called the Fieldscope III an EDIII. I confess I have no idea of the significance of this - is it some kind of lens coating?

Thanks everyone for the advice so far, particularly concering usage and carrying. At this stage I don't think I will be going in for heavy digiscoping use, although I might choose to walk a fair distance. I'm not aversed to one of those scope-rucksacks, although obviously that means your committing yourself to not having quick access to your optics.

All things in this post considered, I think I am leaning towards the Fieldscope III - at least until such time as Mr. Camelot subidises my income! - but I would still welcome further opinions from anyone who would be kind enough to contribute.

:t:

[Blincodave]

The ED 78 with the 38 x (same eyepiece is 30 x on FS 60) provides limited depth of field and, as far as I know, no stay on case is available. Optically it very good,however. In my opinion, the Kowa 613 deal for £499 on Warehouse Express is a better buy than the Nikon FS. You get ED glass, stay on case, good quality 30x TSN lens and a tripod.

[birdman]

Oh boy... this is difficult!!!

Thanks for the info Blincodave. :t:

[bill lord]

I went through the same process of sorting a quality scope out last February and I went for the Nikon ED 78 which is optically virtually identical to the new ED 82, if you look through the two side by side you will be hard pushed to tell the difference. I bought the 25-75 zoom but this adds £130 onto the price of the scope, and I find that I use the scope more at the lower end values than at the higher ones, though having 75x available is nice. The 38X lens gives a greater width of view than the zoom does at 25X ( 33m at 1000m as opposed to 28m at 1000m ) The ED part of the name refers to Extra Low Dispersion glass in the lenses and makes the big difference between the Fieldscope III and the ED version, put simply you get a clearer brighter image with little or no chromatic aberration in the image you see. Nikon do not sell a stay on case for the Ed 78 and there is no dedicated stay on case available but if you order an Opticron Imagic 80 Stay on case it fits it very snuggly, protects the scope and improves it's waterproofing. I have just bought one for mine and been out in the rain with it this afternoon. The scope itself is water resistant and Nikon say that it will have no problems with getting a bit of rain on it but that it should not be immersed.
I looked through many scopes before I bought it, and take every opportunity to look through others when I am out, and I am always impressed by how well the image I see compares with the image that I see in scopes that cost an awful lot more, put bluntly the Nikon image is to me better than any other that I see. If you buy the ED 78 you are unlikely to regret it, but you need to see what you are buying and compare all the possible scopes, you will not find an ED 78 to look through but if you compare other scopes with the ED 82 you will not go far wrong.

[Nick-on]

Hello Birdman,
The ED78 is the better of the 2 (IMHO, and I have both) despite its lack of waterproofing and suitable SOC. I use the 38xw and occasionally the 75x eyepieces and the view is excellent. Looking at a recent Spanish Imperial Eagle nest approx half a mile away it was possible to identify the passerines nesting in bottom of the nest as Spanish Sparrows. My Kowa toting friend was absolutelt awestruck!! At it's current price it is without doubt a genuine optical bargain! If you get one you will not be dissapointed.
PS I use the old style rubber folddown eyecup eyepieces and they are excellent.

[Bob D]

I've used the Nikon Fieldscope III ED for several years. Optically it is excellent. I've used ith with both Nikons WA eyepieces and their newer 20x60 zoom. The scope is sharp with the zoom to 60X and under good light conditions is useful at 60X. Although, most often I tend to stope zooming at around 45 -50X.

My complaint about the zoom is its short eye relief. Which depending on your style of glasses can be a problem even at the mid-range powers.

[bohemwarbler]

Birdman,

According to the Nikon tech experts, the new Nikon zooms are of excellent quality and you should not notice any discernable decrease in resolution when compared with the fixed eyepieces, although your FOV will decrease as you zoom in. The 20X60 zoom (for 60 mm) is a superior zoom compared to the 15X45 zoom. This is because this new Nikon zoom is the MCII, which results in a higher quality glass.

Target shooters like the fixed eyepieces because they're aiming at a fixed target and haven't the need to be doing all the things a birder is doing with a scope (i.e. trying to identify moving targets at different distances and interested in the aesthetic of a beautiful resolution).

I believe the notion of fixed eyepieces for birding is somewhat outdated because the fixed optics are not necessarily a superior optic anymore, and there's much more you can do with a zoom.

If you think of your scope as a long term investment for enjoyable birding, spread out over 10-20 years, what does the difference in price add up to on a yearly basis? I'd also suggest that you go for a sturdy tripod with a fluid head, and you won't be sorry. If you got a good scope, but it totters in the wind, then you've essentially degraded the quality of your otherwise excellent scope. I have a Bogen Manfrotto Tracker and it's excellent in the wind. I've seen scopes crash to the ground blown over from the wind while briefly left unattended.

In the U.S., Nikon offers a "no fault" warranty in writing over and above its manufacturer's warranty. If you do something to damage your scope (i.e. drop it, stumble over it, etc.), Nikon will repair it for $10.00 U.S. dollars, plus shipping. Not a bad deal. I don't know if there's a similar warranty in other countries.

[birdman]

Thanks for the extra info everyone, including pms.

:t: :t: :t:

[birdman]

Many, many thanks to everyone who contributed here, by pm, and in other threads... far too many of you to mention by name!!!

Finally made my choice, and negotiations with she who balances the books were tough, but successful ;), and I am now eagerly awaiting delivery of the ED78 Angled c/w 38Wx from warehouseexpress!!!

(I did the right thing, of course, and mentioned BirdForum whilst ordering.)

:t: :t: :t:

[pduxon]

nice one Birdman. I'm sure you won't regret it.

[RichUK]

nice one Birdman. I'm sure you won't regret it.

Like he said.

Nice one, Birdman!

Rich.

[scampo]

You're in for a real treat, you know.

[pduxon]

How many ED78's have been sold to BFers? I've lost track of the times I've pointed people to that offer.

[Steve999]

Good choice Birdman. I've had an ED78A with 30xW for about 7 years now and wouldn't swap it for anything. I keep looking through new and expensive other stuff expecting to be impressed and it just doesn't happen compared to the Nikon. An absolute classic at the price that you can now get it for.

Enjoy!

Steve

[scampo]

That 30xW is a knockout lens, Steve.

[Richard Cawsey]

My ED78 just arrived - I couldn't resist the temptation any longer.
You also get a free pair of 8X21 binoculars with orders over £300. The binoculars are not much use but the pouch they came in is perfect for my digital camera. . .

[birdman]

The binoculars are not much use . . .
A pair for the glove-box.

[birdman]

Hey... anyone want a laugh at my expense?

I've had my ED78 for a week now - almost totally unused due to the rain! - and I've just figured out the "twist". Yep... a whole week to work out what to untighten and what to rotate... and I DID read the instructions!!!

The only thing that was concerning me about an angled scope was use on a monopod in a hide... and the consequent neck-ache... I didn't know it did this, but the fully body twist of the Nikon means I don't have to... groovy or what?!

(Now... when's this rain gonna stop!)

[pduxon]

Hey... anyone want a laugh at my expense?

I've had my ED78 for a week now - almost totally unused due to the rain! - and I've just figured out the "twist". Yep... a whole week to work out what to untighten and what to rotate... and I DID read the instructions!!!

The only thing that was concerning me about an angled scope was use on a monopod in a hide... and the consequent neck-ache... I didn't know it did this, but the fully body twist of the Nikon means I don't have to... groovy or what?!

(Now... when's this rain gonna stop!)

ask Digi-birder about my tripod...........

[birdman]

ask Digi-birder about my tripod...........
Oh digi... do tell!

[scampo]

It's a very useful feature - there are very few occasions when I would prefer a straight scope.

[Quacker]

Hi Birdman


Glad you made "the right choice" - Have you used it yet? - I just stated digiscoping and its power is frightening. Anything closer than a mile is too close lol - well, not quite, but you know what i mean.

Did you get the Opticron Imagic SOC? - I read earlier it fits well. I want a case, if only to a) be able to attatch a strap to carry the rig in a comfortable fashion, and b) to fit the locating site as it's devilish at hight powered magnification chasing little brown jobs around using an LCD on its own ;)

[amh2029]

Hey... anyone want a laugh at my expense?

I've had my ED78 for a week now - almost totally unused due to the rain! - and I've just figured out the "twist". Yep... a whole week to work out what to untighten and what to rotate... and I DID read the instructions!!!

The only thing that was concerning me about an angled scope was use on a monopod in a hide... and the consequent neck-ache... I didn't know it did this, but the fully body twist of the Nikon means I don't have to... groovy or what?!

(Now... when's this rain gonna stop!)

Very helpfull and supportive exchange of views, great stuff! Having read through the various posts, I rushed off (well, walked over to my phone) and also bought an ED78. Should be arriving today. Birdman - what tripod have you gone for?
Andrew

[scampo]

Well, when I joined BF, all the talk seemed to be about Swarovski. Now Nikon and Zeiss seem to be the names that crop up the most often. And as for the ED78 offer at Warehouse Express, well, it must really have transformed the experiences of an amazingly large number of birders here.

[birdman]

Hi Birdman


Glad you made "the right choice" - Have you used it yet? - I just stated digiscoping and its power is frightening. Anything closer than a mile is too close lol - well, not quite, but you know what i mean.

Did you get the Opticron Imagic SOC? - I read earlier it fits well. I want a case, if only to a) be able to attatch a strap to carry the rig in a comfortable fashion, and b) to fit the locating site as it's devilish at hight powered magnification chasing little brown jobs around using an LCD on its own ;)
Would you believe... still haven't been able to use it yet!!!

The rain's not been so bad of late, but I had a couple of pre-booked appointments weekend just gone... I'm gonna have to get my priorities right!!!

Didn't get an SOC, really hit the limit of the budget, so until I save up, SCO will have to be replaced with TLC!

[birdman]

Birdman - what tripod have you gone for?
Andrew
As above, no new tripod yet... will make do with what I have (and a keep it attached to me at all times!)... but it's a fairly weighty piece of kit, so I'll have to consider that when I can afford one.

[scampo]

Would you believe... still haven't been able to use it yet!!!

The rain's not been so bad of late, but I had a couple of pre-booked appointments weekend just gone... I'm gonna have to get my priorities right!!!

Didn't get an SOC, really hit the limit of the budget, so until I save up, SCO will have to be replaced with TLC!I wouldn't wait too long as the Imagic is, itself, now discontinued and, in the end, a stay on case is pretty useful if not mandatory if you want to preserve the bodywork of the Nikon for possible future sale (as if!).

You're in for a real treat when you finally do get out there! We're off to Rutland Water a little later - hoping the black terns are still around!

[Alan G]

Just to keep the ED78 thread alive:

I'm considering replacing my Opticron HR66, before this offer on Warehouse Express ends.

Has anyone carried out side by side comparisons and, if so, is the Nikon markedly better?

And what's it like for digi-scoping?

Thanks

Alan

[scampo]

Just to keep the ED78 thread alive:

I'm considering replacing my Opticron HR66, before this offer on Warehouse Express ends.

Has anyone carried out side by side comparisons and, if so, is the Nikon markedly better?

And what's it like for digi-scoping?

Thanks

AlanI doubt in bright conditions you'd notice a markedly different image, but I would say it would be brighter and sharper than the Opticron in less ideal conditions. Nikon scopes do seem able to create a superbly restful, "walk-in" quality image - and I think you would notice this. The 30xW eyepiece (or the 38x for reservoir / sea watching) is very good indeed.

[squaredoch]

Hi, The discussion on the ED78 is very interesting and until tonight I had almost decided that that was the way to go. However, I have just found out that a mint +++ Fieldscope 11 ed is available locally and now i am back to square 1.
I think that the 78 lens will let more light in than the 60 of the 11 model but how much difference is there?

My plan is to use the new gizmo from Nikon with the scope and my D100 camera so light is significant. however, so is the budget!!!

Any advice would be appreciated as i am new to this telescope lark.

Thanks

mike

[william j clive]

Hi, The discussion on the ED78 is very interesting and until tonight I had almost decided that that was the way to go. However, I have just found out that a mint +++ Fieldscope 11 ed is available locally and now i am back to square 1.
I think that the 78 lens will let more light in than the 60 of the 11 model but how much difference is there?

My plan is to use the new gizmo from Nikon with the scope and my D100 camera so light is significant. however, so is the budget!!!

Any advice would be appreciated as i am new to this telescope lark.

Thanks

mike

For several years I had both the scopes you mention, using the 60 for long walks and the 78 most of the time. Eventually I sold the 60, and kept the 78. I think that may indicate your choice too, especially for the photographic side of it.

Cheers

Clive

[Tim Allwood]

couldn't believe it when i saw it at 399

always wanted one despite the large objective and increased weight. Been using it on and off now for a year and it's great. Although i already have a sec hand Kowa 611 (fluorite and mega lightweight at 250) I don't regret spending the 399. After all, both of them together are around only half the price of the 'new' bigger scopes. And as several people have said they take the same eyepieces as the new Nikon 82 and are as good as all the other top scopes albeit with a little question about total waterproofness (haven't heard of one of these letting in water though unlike the old Ed 60s)