Nikon Fieldscope Water Proof?

[tallgrass]

Hi
I have just bought a new Fieldscop III, which has now become one of my most prized possessions - but more about that in another thread! While going over the instruction manual/brochure I was a bit surprised to read that although the Fieldscope is waterproof down to something like 2 meters underwater for 5 minutes, you are advised not to use the focusing ring in wet weather!! Any opinions on this one? Seems a bit odd to me! Rather like buying a pair of rubber boots that are good for walking in the rain but not for stepping in puddles!

[Kevin Mac]

That's puzzling. If it's nitrogen purged the focusing mechanism would have to be sealed as well. Perhaps the wet weather they were referring to is 2 meters under.

[Art Thorn]

Having read many manuals for many products, I have come to believe that the least amount of money possible is spent on developing these things. They seem to cut and paste from one publication to another, sometimes referring to a different, earlier product altogether. This seems to be especially common when translations are required. Technical writing requires good skills and a thorough understanding of the product, something that seems to be lacking far too often.

[tallgrass]

Hi Kevin

Here is the actual wording in the Fieldscope instruction sheet:

Water Proof Models:
The Fieldscope III series are waterproof, and can be used underwater at a maximum depth of 2 meters for up to 5 minutes without damaging the optical system.
The Fieldscope III series offers the following advantages:
1. Can be used in conditions of high humidity, dust and rain without risk of damage.
2. Nitrogen-filled design makes them resistant to condensation and mould.
Observe the following when using the Feildscope III series:
1. The unit is not airtight and should not be held under running water.
2. Movable parts (focusing knob, eyepiece, etc) of the Fieldscope III series should not be adjusted in wet conditions.

It is this last sentence that has me puzzled!

[scampo]

You have a first class top scope. All manufacturers give the same advice. The Nikon is as waterproof as any other waterproof scope. Like a waterproof watch - they recommend you dont wind it under water. The moving parts are the weakest point, I suppsoe, that is all.

Let us know how you get on with it.

[Hermann]

You have a first class top scope. All manufacturers give the same advice. The Nikon is as waterproof as any other waterproof scope. Like a waterproof watch - they recommend you dont wind it under water. The moving parts are the weakest point, I suppsoe, that is all.

I don't agree. I think that from an engineering point of view the Nikon with its wide focussing ring is more difficult to waterproof than the "knob focussing" of the Leica or the Zeiss. I also think this type of focussing is more prone to leaking no matter how good the sealing is, especially after a few years.

That's why I'm a bit more careful with my Nikon EDIIIA in bad weather than I was with my Leica. But some commonsense and a decent stay-on case go a long way IMO. I've used my Nikon in all sorts of weather with no ill effect, but I always make sure the focussing ring doesn't get waterlogged.

BTW, when the EDII came onto the market here, Nikon claimed in their brochure that it was waterproof. It wasn't. My mother's EDII fogged up after a heavy thunderstorm during a seawatch. She didn't have a stay-on case at the time, and it seems like she drew some water into the scope by focussing. Nikon repaired the scope, and shortly afterwards the new brochures had a warning not to use the focussing in wet weather. I used an EDIIA with a home-made stay-on case at the time, and didn't have any problems.

Hermann

[scampo]

You seem very sure. Have you spoken to Nikon about this? My understanding is that the earlier model Fieldscopes (EDII and ED78) were said to be "showerproof" and were never guaranteed against immersion. In contrast, the two new models (EDIII and ED82) are guaranteed against immersion and water ingress, this being fully covered under the excellent Nikon warranty. As with all top scopes, both Nikons are sealed with "o" rings and purged with dry nitrogen.
That said, I do think that the precautions you suggest are sensible for any scope, waterproof or not. The Nikon focusing mechanism is similar to that used by Swarovski, and that scope is, similarly, guaranteed waterproof. My Zeiss Diascope has a similar focusing mechanism to the Leica scope, and logic would seem to suggest that this mechanism is less likely to allow water ingress, but I have no doubts whatever about the waterproof qualities of my son's ED82, nor for that matter, the Swarovski we owned previously.

[Hermann]

You seem very sure. Have you spoken to Nikon about this? My understanding is that the earlier model Fieldscopes (EDII and ED78) were said to be "showerproof" and were never guaranteed against immersion. In contrast, the two new models (EDIII and ED82) are guaranteed against immersion and water ingress, this being fully covered under the excellent Nikon warranty. As with all top scopes, both Nikons are sealed with "o" rings and purged with dry nitrogen.

The point is that helical focussing may start leaking when the threads become waterlogged and water is sort of "pumped" inside the body. That's probably the reason why Zeiss never called their 7x50BGAT "waterproof". O-rings may improve the situation somewhat, but they don't last forever, especially not when the some dust get on the O-rings.

That said, I think the new Nikon scopes (EDIII and ED82) are very well sealed - but I'd always be a bit more careful with them than with, say, the Leica or the Zeiss. In fact, I used my old EDII for years in all sorts of weather and never had any problems, even though the EDII wasn't as well sealed as the EDIII. The only thing I did was to use some plain commonsense.

Hermann

[Graham Osborne]

I have a secondhand EDIIIA (originally dating from 1999) which I consider to be an excellent little scope. However, my instruction manual provides different infromation from Tallgrass's. Under the heading 'Notes on waterproof models' it states:

"Fieldscope III series models are waterproof and airtight. Therefore, they can be used in harsh conditions - blur or growth of mould rarely occurs inside the optical system of these Fieldscopes even if they are exposed to rain or wind, splashed on while on board a boat, or used in a hot, humid or dusty place. However, do not immerse them in water under any circumstances. Any moisture on the lens surface should be wiped off lightly. In addition, we recommend that you have your waterproof-type Fieldscope checked regularly to keep it in optimal condition".

I am afraid that I took this information at face value, and on a recent whale-watching trip, after several hours of fairly persistent rain, I found that both the inside of the objective and one prism surface were heavily misted. Perhaps I should have known better after my experience with a pair of 'waterproof' Swift Audubons, but I really thought that Nikon would be more reliable. Fortunately, I was able to project the sun through the scope the next day, and this got rid of the misting. The scope is now ok except for a minor stain on the prism which I do think effects the optical performance in any way.

What I have learnt is that a 5 year old EDIIIA that has not been serviced cannot be relied upon as being waterproof, and that the custom-made Nikon stay-on cover I have since purchased is an essential piece of kit in wet weather.

The 10-year Limited Warranty on the scope is not transferable, although I am not too worried about this as I got it for a very good price.

Graham

[scampo]

The 10-year Limited Warranty on the scope is not transferable, although I am not too worried about this as I got it for a very good price.

GrahamMaybe that's why you got it at a good price... But seriously, how will they know it has been transferred if you don't tell them? No one can really know what that scope has been subjected to during its life (before it was yours), and as has been said, rubber o-rings are limited, whatever the claims. I would send it back to Nikon and say you've lost the warranty card, myself - they'll sort it, I'm sure.

[Graham Osborne]

Maybe that's why you got it at a good price... But seriously, how will they know it has been transferred if you don't tell them? No one can really know what that scope has been subjected to during its life (before it was yours), and as has been said, rubber o-rings are limited, whatever the claims. I would send it back to Nikon and say you've lost the warranty card, myself - they'll sort it, I'm sure.
Hi Steve
The scope is entirely satisfactory to use as it is now. If I get the same problem again I will send it to Nikon, but I don't think I would be comfortable with misrepresenting my status as the original owner, whatever I think of the company's claims regarding 'waterproofness' and the limitations of their warranties. If I do need to send it to them I shall quote the information on the instruction manual, in order to point out its apparent inaccuracy and use this to appeal to their sense of customer care. Anyway, this may never happen, and I intend to continue to enjoy the use of an (otherwise) excellent scope, as well as my trusty Nikon HG 8x32 binos (also secondhand and proven waterproof) and my somewhat battered but reliable CP4500.

Graham

[scampo]

Hi Steve
The scope is entirely satisfactory to use as it is now. If I get the same problem again I will send it to Nikon, but I don't think I would be comfortable with misrepresenting my status as the original owner, whatever I think of the company's claims regarding 'waterproofness' and the limitations of their warranties. If I do need to send it to them I shall quote the information on the instruction manual, in order to point out its apparent inaccuracy and use this to appeal to their sense of customer care. Anyway, this may never happen, and I intend to continue to enjoy the use of an (otherwise) excellent scope, as well as my trusty Nikon HG 8x32 binos (also secondhand and proven waterproof) and my somewhat battered but reliable CP4500.

Graham
Point taken about honesty, Graham! Good kit, though, for sure.

[tav]

Hi
you are advised not to use the focusing ring in wet weather!! Any opinions on this one? !

so the scoop is useless, if you can't turn the focusing ring than you can't use the scoop, so its a useless scoop in my eyes if the information is correct.

[Grousemore]

so the scoop is useless, if you can't turn the focusing ring than you can't use the scoop, so its a useless scoop in my eyes if the information is correct.

Within the proviso of wet weather, then your logic is inescapable.

[tav]

Within the proviso of wet weather, then your logic is inescapable.

i don't now if you are a birder to,but i can't count the times anymore when i am birding with wet wheather, so my advise is forget this scoop.

[scampo]

What an utterly odd three posts at the end of an informative thread about one of the top world birding scopes.

[Grousemore]

Nothing odd at all; Tav was making the valid point that a scope such as the one described was useless in wet weather, on the basis that the advice from Nikon was not to use the focussing ring!

[Leif]

Nothing odd at all; Tav was making the valid point that a scope such as the one described was useless in wet weather, on the basis that the advice from Nikon was not to use the focussing ring!

The Nikon 8x42 HG is waterproof and yet in the manual it indicates that you should not get water on it. Perhaps at Nikon the head doesn't know what the tail is doing?

[Grousemore]

The Nikon 8x42 HG is waterproof and yet in the manual it indicates that you should not get water on it. Perhaps at Nikon the head doesn't know what the tail is doing?

Certainly sounds that way...I can't imagine being out in the rain with binoculars carrying that proviso; never had a problem with Zeiss in the rain ;)

[william j clive]

Certainly sounds that way...I can't imagine being out in the rain with binoculars carrying that proviso; never had a problem with Zeiss in the rain ;)


Nikon are spouting a lot of bovine defecation in this instance. I have had a 78mm Nikon scope since they were introduced in the early nineties. Until this year, without a stay on case, since they were not available. I never once failed to use the scope in a downpour, if it was necessary. There has never ever been even the hint of a problem. Like I said its a load of old bull.

[scampo]

Nothing odd at all; Tav was making the valid point that a scope such as the one described was useless in wet weather, on the basis that the advice from Nikon was not to use the focussing ring!From Nikon:

http://www.europe-nikon.com/images/pix-images/pix-leeg.gif"Waterproof (up to 2m/6.6 ft. for 5 minutes) and fog-free with O-ring seals and nitrogen gas"
Earlier in the thread this has already been made clear. Somewhere, sometime, somehow common sense will prevail. The EDIII scope is no different from all other waterproof top scopes.

[tav]

Hi
you are advised not to use the focusing ring in wet weather!! !
:eek!:

[Grousemore]

From Nikon:

http://www.europe-nikon.com/images/pix-images/pix-leeg.gif"Waterproof (up to 2m/6.6 ft. for 5 minutes) and fog-free with O-ring seals and nitrogen gas"
Earlier in the thread this has already been made clear. Somewhere, sometime, somehow common sense will prevail. The EDIII scope is no different from all other waterproof top scopes.

Believe what you want, no skin off my nose as I don't own one...I was merely reacting to others' posts, but as you seem to be the expert...

[scampo]

Believe what you want, no skin off my nose as I don't own one...I was merely reacting to others' posts, but as you seem to be the expert...I wasn't responding to your post, merely getting a bit fed up with obvious erroneous comments that were becoming, in my view, silly. No need for sarcasm, really, is there?

[Grousemore]

I wasn't responding to your post, merely getting a bit fed up with obvious erroneous comments that were becoming, in my view, silly. No need for sarcasm, really, is there?

If you're not responding to my post, then please don't quote it.

[scampo]

Oh please...

I was merely trying to clarify my previous response to you, that's all. If you read back through this thread you'll see that was the case.

[Art Thorn]

Lot of fuss! Have you never tried to assemble something following the manufacturer's directions? I have, many times, and, more often than not, the directions have been inaccurate, usually referring to parts that don't exist or are different from those that actually came in the box. I purchased a second-hand Kodak professional digital camera (that once sold for $25,000!!!!) and have the original manual. It is amazing how inaccurate the manual is. All this fooforaw about a manual that is probably just inaccurate.

[scampo]

Lot of fuss! Have you never tried to assemble something following the manufacturer's directions? I have, many times, and, more often than not, the directions have been inaccurate, usually referring to parts that don't exist or are different from those that actually came in the box. I purchased a second-hand Kodak professional digital camera (that once sold for $25,000!!!!) and have the original manual. It is amazing how inaccurate the manual is. All this fooforaw about a manual that is probably just inaccurate.
Nice word, fooforaw, Art - must be Canadian? It certainly captures perfectly what drove me to post my reply.

[pduxon]

The Nikon 8x42 HG is waterproof and yet in the manual it indicates that you should not get water on it. Perhaps at Nikon the head doesn't know what the tail is doing?

The 8x32 has taken a soaking and been problem free.

[Tim Allwood]

mine too Pete

but after a three months in hot humid places the rubber seems to be lifting already and the rubber on the eye cups is perishing a bit. This suprised me as my other bins (dialyts) are in pretty good nick after 14 years including much harder use and almost 2 consecutive years in tropics.......

[Art Thorn]

Nice word, fooforaw, Art - must be Canadian? It certainly captures perfectly what drove me to post my reply.
Well I've never actually seen the word written, but have heard it used in similar circumstances. Might have sprung from a fertile imagination, but works for me! ;)

[scampo]

mine too Pete

but after a three months in hot humid places the rubber seems to be lifting already and the rubber on the eye cups is perishing a bit. This suprised me as my other bins (dialyts) are in pretty good nick after 14 years including much harder use and almost 2 consecutive years in tropics.......
Worrying really as a similar comment was posted about Swaro ELs not so long ago. I do wonder how seriously the coverings are tested by manufacturers before they decide to use them.

[Graham Talbot]

I have a Nikon EDIII which I specifically purchased for birding trips abroad as it is compact and light and waterproof. However on a recent trip to Tibet it got wet whilst wading through a stream and the inside fogged up thus preventing me from using it to digiscope a party of Tibetan Sandgrouse.

Although the misting cleared after a few days I have now lost all confidence in it and will certainly be getting rid of it As for buying another Nikon product. I very much doubt it.

[scampo]

I have a Nikon EDIII which I specifically purchased for birding trips abroad as it is compact and light and waterproof. However on a recent trip to Tibet it got wet whilst wading through a stream and the inside fogged up thus preventing me from using it to digiscope a party of Tibetan Sandgrouse.

Although the misting cleared after a few days I have now lost all confidence in it and will certainly be getting rid of it As for buying another Nikon product. I very much doubt it.That is bad news - did you contact Nikon?

Just out of interest, don't leap from a frying pan in to a fire as a similar message has been posted concerning Swarovski kit, I seem to recall, when used in humid conditions.

[Grousemore]

I have a Nikon EDIII which I specifically purchased for birding trips abroad as it is compact and light and waterproof. However on a recent trip to Tibet it got wet whilst wading through a stream and the inside fogged up thus preventing me from using it to digiscope a party of Tibetan Sandgrouse.

Although the misting cleared after a few days I have now lost all confidence in it and will certainly be getting rid of it As for buying another Nikon product. I very much doubt it.

Bad luck there, Graham.

It seems there have been several instances of these Nikon scopes being found wanting in damp conditions...the most current being "De-Misting Tips" linked here

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=23790

This is a scope often recommended on BF, but a little more objectivity amongst the pro-Nikon bias may be needed.

[zurtfox]

Believe what you want, no skin off my nose as I don't own one

How do you smell then??? Sorry, couldn't resist applying a little humour to the thread!

Chris

[Art Thorn]

Bad luck there, Graham.

It seems there have been several instances of these Nikon scopes being found wanting in damp conditions...the most current being "De-Misting Tips" linked here

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=23790

This is a scope often recommended on BF, but a little more objectivity amongst the pro-Nikon bias may be needed.

Just out of curiosity, Trevor, what scope and bins do you own? :brains:

[DJ Sideboard]

I had a Nikon EDII Fieldscope 60mm from 1993 to 1999, it soon gained the nickname 'The Sponge' because of its ability to soak up water. Optically it was initially great, but repeated soakings soon degraded this. Everyone else I know with this model had the same problems, the design was rubbish.

After its demise in a freak seawatching accident in 1999, my insurers replaced it with a shiney new EDIII, which I still own and cherish. I've never taken much care of it, and I don't do stay on the scope cases, but it has never let me down, despite some good soakings and being dropped periodically. Its a little cracker!.

[Grousemore]

Just out of curiosity, Trevor, what scope and bins do you own? :brains:

If you're genuinely interested, I'll PM you the details...but this Thread is supposed to be about the waterproofness or otherwise of Nikon scopes.

[Tim Allwood]

I have a Nikon EDIII which I specifically purchased for birding trips abroad as it is compact and light and waterproof. However on a recent trip to Tibet it got wet whilst wading through a stream and the inside fogged up thus preventing me from using it to digiscope a party of Tibetan Sandgrouse.

never mind Graham, I hope to be there next summer and I'll take a pic of some for you - as long as my nikon doesn't fog up too......!

anyone know if it's a problem with the (o ring?) seals? or something else that plagues these scopes

[Art Thorn]

If you're genuinely interested, I'll PM you the details...but this Thread is supposed to be about the waterproofness or otherwise of Nikon scopes.
Well I guess I was just wondering, since you were questioning the objectivity of others on this thread, if you were a Nikon fan yourself.

[scampo]

...that plagues these scopesI wonder at what is happening here? Plagues? Three folk, is it, who have reported a problem? And those of us who have nothing but a wonderful Nikon scope are being blamed for lacking objectivity?

The fault will be of Biblical proportions soon, I suppose...

(-;

[Grousemore]

Somewhere, sometime, somehow common sense will prevail. The EDIII scope is no different from all other waterproof top scopes.

Haven't seen any posts from Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, scope owners complaining about water ingress/misting...

[Tim Allwood]

the old eds were bloody awful Steve

flasks as we used to call em. The mark III are a different case and my ED78 is fine too.... so far. The problem with earlier models was well known about by birders, and was a trade off in owning the best scope optically by far in the late 80s/early 90s

[salty]

if the nikon is misting up, it cant be sealed propaly! dodgy seals must be letting the nitrogen leak out, and water vapour leak in!

[Tim Allwood]

Hi Salty

I don't know if the mark I and II Nikons were nitrogen-filled. I seem to think they weren't.....

[scampo]

Haven't seen any posts from Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, scope owners complaining about water ingress/misting...True enough. I think Tim wrote of Swaro bins misting up and someone else of the rubber peeling off.

[dogfish]

Just thought I'd add that my ''waterproof'' Nikon EDIII fogged up after a day in the rain on Saturday. Not contacted Nikon yet as it's Easter. There are a few reports of this problem on this forum. Makes me wonder if it is a Nikon weakness. Or are Swarovski/Leica/Zeiss waterproof scopes also letting in water? Anyone had that problem?

Sean

[black lark]

Just thought I'd add that my ''waterproof'' Nikon EDIII fogged up after a day in the rain on Saturday. Not contacted Nikon yet as it's Easter. There are a few reports of this problem on this forum. Makes me wonder if it is a Nikon weakness. Or are Swarovski/Leica/Zeiss waterproof scopes also letting in water? Anyone had that problem?

Sean
sean, a question for you, have you used a stay on case with the scoop, i use always a stay on case whether the sun shines or its rains all day ??

[dogfish]

No, I find many stay-on cases awkward to use as well as being an unneccessary expense. And there should be no need to use a case for a nitrogen-purged, waterproof scope.

Sean

[dogfish]

No, I find many stay-on cases awkward to use as well as being an unnecessary expense. And there should be no need to use a case for a nitrogen-purged, waterproof scope.

Sean

[black lark]

No, I find many stay-on cases awkward to use as well as being an unnecessary expense. And there should be no need to use a case for a nitrogen-purged, waterproof scope.

Sean

But the nikon stay on case for the Ed82 IS VERY GOOD ,and its a extra protection for the scoop itself , because the scoop has no rubber body.

[scampo]

No, I find many stay-on cases awkward to use as well as being an unneccessary expense. And there should be no need to use a case for a nitrogen-purged, waterproof scope.

Sean
Nothing in this world is perfect. It'll be repaired under Nikon's excellent warranty. All scopes of all makes have problems at times.

[Swissboy]

sean, a question for you, have you used a stay on case with the scoop, i use always a stay on case whether the sun shines or its rains all day ??

Why use a case against the rain when the scope is claimed to be water proof? That's OK against it being banged. Though I never use such a case. I only use a protection (actually a knitted tube) to protect my scopes while I'm traveling, and the backpack may get some rough treatment. But I use a small self-made and very light-weight leather cover around the focus wheel on my Leica 77 in order to protect my fingers from the cold metal.

[black lark]

Why use a case against the rain when the scope is claimed to be water proof? That's OK against it being banged. Though I never use such a case. I only use a protection (actually a knitted tube) to protect my scopes while I'm traveling, and the backpack may get some rough treatment. But I use a small self-made and very light-weight leather cover around the focus wheel on my Leica 77 in order to protect my fingers from the cold metal.

I do it because ; for protection, and travelling and camouflage and for keeping the scoop exterior like new.
When you can buy a scoop for that money, you can certainly buy also a cover for it, i think.

[Swissboy]

I do it because ; for protection, and travelling and camouflage and for keeping the scoop exterior like new.
When you can buy a scoop for that money, you can certainly buy also a cover for it, i think.

For me, it's not a question of money, but one of bulk plus weight. In addition, I like to use the built-in sights on my (straight) scopes. And you can't do that with a stay-on case. Thus, to each his own. As long as my optics function as they should, I don't mind a few scratches, though I'd also love to have them look like new. But as long as you have that stay-on case where it's supposed to be, you don't see the new appearance anyway. In addition, I tend to keep my optics for such a very long time that I don't think about potential resale value.