Can Someone Help with Hummingbird ID?

[bosquebirds]

Hello, all.
I'm new here, so I hope I'm getting the link to my photo correctly. I saw this hummer at the Bosque del Apache today, near the visitor center. It looked like a juvenile to me, perhaps a black-chinned. The adults are very common here in New Mexico and I see them all over the state.

[img]http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/data/500/14705JuvHummer.jpg[/img

Thanks for any info.
This is a terrific site!
Ingrid

[Katy Penland]

Although it's a little difficult to tell from the angle of the shot, the bill looks to me like the elongated, slightly down-turned bill of the black-chinned. The uneven beginning of the gorget (throat spot) is typical of juvenile b-c and rufous males although it's a little odd not to see some faint throat streaking. But this bird is all fluffed up so the "streaks" could just be diffused. But as much as we see hummers here, I'm far from an expert so I'll be interested to see what more experienced BFers have to say.

[KCFoggin]

Good, I'm glad you put it here as well. This way it will get more exposure.

[humminbird]

Hello, all.
I'm new here, so I hope I'm getting the link to my photo correctly. I saw this hummer at the Bosque del Apache today, near the visitor center. It looked like a juvenile to me, perhaps a black-chinned. The adults are very common here in New Mexico and I see them all over the state.

[img]http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/data/500/14705JuvHummer.jpg[/img

Thanks for any info.
This is a terrific site!
Ingrid

Could not view the photo so I can not help.

[HelenB]

This URL should take you to the gallery entry:

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/33346/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

Sorry, but I don't have enough experience with Western hummers, to give you an answer.

[humminbird]

Well, thanks to Helen I was able to get back in and have a careful look at the bird. Like Katy, I am not quite ready to make a call on this one. This bird certainly is Archilochous like Katy, but most young Archilochus alexandri ( Black-chinned) would be showing far more "five o'clock shadow" (that dark spotting they get in the chin) by the time they are showing a cluster of gorget feathers like this one is. It definitely has that slight fork to the tail though that I would expect. It would sure be nice if Sherrie would chime in on this one though!
Ingrid, so you have another shot that shows a profile of this bird? I would love to get some looks at the primaries and retrices!
Mark Klym
Bastrop, TX

[bosquebirds]

Hi, Mark.
This little bird kept its tummy directly toward me, unfortunately, so I don't have an image from the back. I've posted another photo in the Member Galleries that shows the head with the bill profile. Hopefully that might help.

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/data/500/14705JuvHummerProfile.jpg

The photo colors are exactly what I saw. It was cloudy so the light was flat and I saw no iridescence.

Thanks for any help.
Ingrid Biel
Albuquerque

[Katy Penland]

Here's the URL for the 2nd Gallery photo from Ingrid. Ingrid, for some reason there's just a little red x in a box in your post. (I don't know what that means in terms of why it didn't upload for you; I'll find out.)

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33560

[bosquebirds]

Thank you, Katy.
I may be uploading incorrectly.Reading instructions for things technical is not my forte!
Ingrid

[Katy Penland]

Thank you, Katy.
I may be uploading incorrectly.Reading instructions for things technical is not my forte!
Ingrid
LOL, don't feel like the Lone Rangerette!

BTW, I haven't forgotten your earlier request about weekend birding spots in AZ. I'm compiling a list of worthwhile areas that are within do-able range and will get those to you shortly. ;)

[humminbird]

Well, I looked at the second photo. The bill to head width ratio is right for a Black-chinned (bill about 1/3 again as long as the head is wide), and the tail to wing ratio looks like it might be right. The thing that keeps bothering me though comes from the first photo where the violet color seems to extend too high on the gorget (the Black-chinned gorget is a violet stripe underneath a distinctly black chin, thus the name) for this species and there is no "five o'clock shadow" (the spotting so typical of juvenile Archilochus) on this bird. Without a better profile, I am not prepared to make a call. Especially when I can see no primary or retrices shapes.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[bosquebirds]

Mark:
I really appreciate your effort to help with identifying this little bird. My next trip to the Bosque won't be for about ten days, so it's likely that most of the hummers will have left by then. And, of course, if this is a juvenile, its appearance will be different by next Spring.

So, I'll keep a look-out in future for birds like this and try to get a view from the back.

Again, many thanks.

Ingrid

[humminbird]

Mark:
I really appreciate your effort to help with identifying this little bird. My next trip to the Bosque won't be for about ten days, so it's likely that most of the hummers will have left by then. And, of course, if this is a juvenile, its appearance will be different by next Spring.

So, I'll keep a look-out in future for birds like this and try to get a view from the back.

Again, many thanks.

Ingrid

Ingrid

If you get a chance to show these photos to someone who jumps at an id, I would be very interested in the comments as to what they determine it is and why. This bird has me very curious.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[Katy Penland]

I'll look forward to getting other opinions as well.

Your comments on the gorget, Mark, reminded me of how some of the field guides used to show so much violet beneath the black "chin", yet of all the b-cs we get here, the violet is probably only a 1/8" or 3/16" border along the bottom edge.

Truly a most interesting bird.

[bosquebirds]

Hi, Katy and Mark.
I can print out a copy of the pictures and bring it to the Bosque visitor center. There's someone who does a hummingbird banding workshop in the summer. Perhaps they can connect me with her.

If there's any answer to this dilemma - or another measured opinion - I'll pass on the info.

Again, many thanks.
It's fun to photograph a mystery-bird!
Ingrid

[humminbird]

Hi, Katy and Mark.
I can print out a copy of the pictures and bring it to the Bosque visitor center. There's someone who does a hummingbird banding workshop in the summer. Perhaps they can connect me with her.

If there's any answer to this dilemma - or another measured opinion - I'll pass on the info.

Again, many thanks.
It's fun to photograph a mystery-bird!
Ingrid

Ingrid:
I would be very curious who is doing the bird banding workshop. I attend a lot of the banding activities here in Texas and participate in them, as well as doing hummingbird identification workshops here in Texas. I would definitely like to hear what they have to say on this bird.

[humminbird]

I'll look forward to getting other opinions as well.

Your comments on the gorget, Mark, reminded me of how some of the field guides used to show so much violet beneath the black "chin", yet of all the b-cs we get here, the violet is probably only a 1/8" or 3/16" border along the bottom edge.

Truly a most interesting bird.

In my experience the "chin" is always the significant part of the gorget - the violet is only a slim 1/8" or so stripe.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[bosquebirds]

Mark:
I looked at the Bosque Friends website that lists all of this year's events. The person who did the banding workshop - in June - was Joan Day-Martin. I did a 'net search which indicates that she is NM's only licensed bander. One site says she lives in the Lake Roberts area (north of Silver City), which is prime hummer territory in the summers. I believe they now have a hummingbird festival.

She probably doesn't go north at this time of year, so I'm unlikely to meet her soon. However, if I can find an e-mail or mailing address, I'll try to contact her to see if she's willing to take a look.

Have you ever met her at any events?
Ingrid