EOS 20D, first impressions

[nigelblake]

I had an EOS 20D biked to me on friday and got the chance to use it for the first time today, first impressions are that it is a stunning improvement over the 10D, not sure about the joystick navigation on zoomed playback images, but its something that I am sure I will get used to, the vertical grip is quite wide, to accomodate AA batteries as a back-up to the BP511 rechargables, and though comfortable, I feel that small-handed users may find it cumbersome. Otherwise I am very impressed with the image quality of it, though it is 8.2 Mp I think it comes very close to the quality of my 11.4 Mp EOS1Ds, images are clean and virtually noise free to 800asa, exposure metering is greatly improved and very accurate in situations that would perhaps be problematic on both the 10D and 1Ds, even bright whites retain detail and are less prone to being 'blown', most impressive is the auto focus, AI servo sticks like a limpet on fast moving subjects and the 5 frames a second drive is is very quiet.

So far very happy indeed.......

Attached is a 1-1 crop from a Little Stint image, and a full image (different frame) of the same bird, plus the full frame from which the crop was lifted.

[KCFoggin]

All I can say is Wow Nigel.

[Characterboats]

That looks like some camera, and it is interesting that you compare it favourably with the 1Ds!

[IanF]

Now do I save up my pennies for one of these or pick up a discounted 10D ?:h?:

[Adey Baker]

Now do I save up my pennies for one of these or pick up a discounted 10D ?:h?:

Do like I'm going to do, Ian - save my pennies for the better camera!

[tracker]

Nigel, were these taken using the Canon 100-400mm IS lense?
Simply amazed at the quality of the 1-1 cropped image from the original shot. Thanks for these examples.
I like the fact the 'AI Servo sticks like a limpet on fast moving subjects'.

Im with Ian on this too. Ive been looking for a 10D, but earlier today wondered whether to save for the 20D. Looking forward to hearing more experiences comparing the two cameras.

Tom

[nigelblake]

The images were taken with the 600mm f4 IS lens

[Ragna]

Nigel the 1-1 image is stunning for that enlargement the full size images also.Like the others here im saving to get one.

[stevo]

I`ve just finished picking my jaw up from the floor,wow the detail in that enlargement.

Regards Steve.PS any info on the price for the 20D?

[Ragna]

Steve try www.pricerunner.co.uk.Last time i looked£1049

[peteh]

Im slowly getting used to the little joystick thingy.
It certainly is alot quicker than having to switch from vertical to horizontal to move around the pics though.

[scottishdude]

I picked up my 20d 2 weeks ago, extremely amazed at the auto focus and the great image quality when using a high ASA. I did get the lock up problem when using the BG E2, have downloaded the 1.05 update but yet to install it.

If you haggle with different companies, you can get a great price. I manage to get one £1050. just make sure they all have them in stock first!!

This Teal was shot at 1/200 f5.6 at 800ASA hand held with a Sigma 50-500

happy snapping

Jamie

[138mph]

Got a 20D three weeks ago taken 500 odd shots.
It definitely locks on quicker and with a better chance of it being on the correct object;
it does start up immediately - this is the a big improvement for me;
images are cleaner, just taken some at ISO 3200 and first glance suggests no problems;
it is a more user-friendly design;
I think the battery lasts longer, but it still needs to be kept warm!
it needs the exposure turned down just like the 10D;
Lock-ups, now theres a question! - with my Canon 300 f/4 L IS USM lens (+1.4x extender) I had lock-ups on the 10D whenever I needed to lower the ISO rating, i.e. I suddenly shifted from a ground-based bird to one in the sky, never ever happened with any other lens. Got my first lock-up on the 20D after applying the 1.0.5 firmware, and with the same lens again. This time, instead of just switch off and back on, I had to unload the battery two or three times. But, no lock-ups since then (about 350 shots with various lenses - Canon 300 f/4 L IS USM + 1.4x, Tamron 28-300XR, Tamron 200-500Di + 1.4x, not used the Tamron 19-35 yet - I guess you've noticed that I don't use Sigma lenses any more).

Anyway, extremely happy with the 20D and will probably sell the 10D as I have a 300V as an emergency back-up.

Hugh

[christineredgate]

I have been out and about practising with the 20d today,but I am not sure re the ISO settings and when to move the settings higher.I must admit this camera is very user friendly,and here are a couple of Sparrow shots using the 100-400 handheld.I had turned up the ISO to 1600,or at least that is what it said in Adobe when I checked them.Is there any special time when one does higher the ISO's.I use the camera in P mode with this lens.It was recommended that to get the best from the camera,one does use high settings,but I,m not sure as to the right circumstances.
Any advice most appreciated. Thankyou.
I have changed the parameter to 1,as it says that using that setting gives brighter colours. I did highlight these pics a little as it was quite overcast,albeit a beautiful calm day.

[scottishdude]

Christine
Here is a kinda rule of thumb. The idea is to get the highest shutterspeed with the highest apeture (i.e f16 although some call this a low aperture)with the lowest ASA as possible, but still getting the correct exposure for the bird. This is to try and get the bird really sharp with good depth of field and little grain or noise. I do realise this is not everyones ideal.

If the light is low then try and use an ASA which will allow a shutter speed no less than half the focal length... i.e 400mm =1/200th and 500mm = 1/250 unless using an IS lens then you could go down to a quarter with a bit of practice. ...i.e 400mm = 1/100th and so on. (this is hand held of course)

The higher the ASA then there is higher levels of grain, however new chips seem to be combating this very well , especially the 20D

It is sometimes possible to fool the meter especially when shooting towards the sky, try not to be fooled into higher shutter speeds from the light from the sky

happy snapping

Jamie

[christineredgate]

Thanks,Jamie,by ASA do you mean ISO,sorry,I really do not understand the different settings.So if I am using an IS 100-400 lens,handheld,what is the ideal ISO to use ,please.It starts at 100,are there any light conditions,which dictate using higher or lower,or bird size,or birds in foliage,or different colour birds,eg,white or dark plumaged birds?.

[Scrums]

Hi Christine,

ASA = American Srandards Authority ISO = International Standards Organisation. To all intents and purposed regard them as the same thing. I believe there is another - which I won't confuse you with.

Basically it relates to the sensitivity if the film/ digital sensor. The higher the number, the less light required to 'stamp' and image on the film/sensor.

(...a problem here though is the higher that number the more grainier film becomes, and the more noise - a similar effect, does digital photography acquire)

The fundamentals of photography are getting an adequate amount of light onto the film/sensor. That's achieved by a combination of three controls:

a) the ISO setting ie: how much light the film/sensor requires.

b) the amount of light you're getting into the camera via the aperture size.

c) how long you're letting that light come in for:shutter speed

And that's all there is to it! simple huh ? Ok a gross oversimplification - but I'm finding that bearing those points in mind all the time I've got the camera in my hand, I'm getting better and better results.

Regards using a long handheld lens, you're going to need a reasonably fast speed, and the camera will tell you what aperture you can get away with. In the sort of light we get at this time of year to get a better aperture you're going to have to raise the ISO - because you won't be getting too much light in.Experiment with using the Tv (time value) mode on the camera and change the ISO until you can get a reasonable aperture.

Hope at least some of that helps,

Chris

[christineredgate]

Chris,thankyou for your explanation.Yes,Tracker e-mailed me with a very simple way that the ISO's work,and now I understand.The duller the light,the higher the ISO.But I have not used the TV setting at all,so may give it a try,but for the moment have been using the P mode with a setting of 1600,and the pics seemed okay.This camera is very user friendly.

[James Eaton]

Cheers folks, thanks to this thread I'm now going to purchase one of these beauties! Its big news for me, I've been thinking about switching from slides to digital for over a year now, but this 20D seems to have finally won me over.

A couple of quick questions if I may. As I will be using the camera in remote rainforests for long periods of time, how long does the battery last on these? Are they generally included free with the camera or do I have to purchas the rechargable battery seperately?
My main query is backing up the memory, I'll be buying 4-5 1GB compact flash cards (always cheapest at crucial.com/uk - £78) for it, but this is nowhere near enough for me. Can anyone suggest the best way to store images in as compact a way as possible, external hard drive/pda/laptop etc.

Also has anybody bought one of these from the US? I'll be getting mine from here I reckon, works out at roughly £600, is there any troubles doing it this way for anyone?

Thanks for any advice and help,

All the best

[nigelblake]

Cheapest place for CF cards at the moment is Digital depot at Stevenage, (on line at http://www.digital-depot.co.uk/ ) they have Kingston 1Gb cards at £55.70, these have a lifetime guarantee, I have been using one since may with no problems at all, but just bought 4 more.

I would personally get the 20D in the UK if you are resident here, by the time you pay import duty, VAT, etc, the price will be little different, the real problem however is that its a big hassle if you get a dud and need it changed or replaced.

Canon make an in-car charger, as do Hahnel, which is handy if you are away from mains power.

There are a number of option re storing images, you could get a 20gig (or more) phototainer such as the inoplus, digital wallet or similar, but by far the best is to use a laptop, preferably one with a DVD writer, and back up all your best images to disk.

[edenwatcher]

Cheers folks, thanks to this thread I'm now going to purchase one of these beauties! Its big news for me, I've been thinking about switching from slides to digital for over a year now, but this 20D seems to have finally won me over.

A

Me too James (and also with a 100-400L), though I still have a few films to use up first!

Rob

[Tannin]

Mods, please delete this thread imediately!

(I have spent way too much already this year, and this thread is doing bad things to my sanity. Or possibly my wallet.)

[Ragna]

James I think Nigel has got a good point ive been looking at the internet prices of Canon 20d in America but with all the taxes etc added there is not a lot of difference(unless you are buying whilst in the USA).But i dont think the warranty would cover the camera in the UK,you may have to send it back to where you got it from.Canon do seem to be having a problem with this camera locking up evan after downloading the new firmware.So buying the body over here would be the safest option.But buying a len from the USA the warranty i think is worldwide?so could be a good deal. let us know how you get on.

[Leif]

So buying the body over here would be the safest option.But buying a len from the USA the warranty i think is worldwide?so could be a good deal. let us know how you get on.

I think lenses are much less likely to be faulty, though slight misalignment in zooms is said to be commonplace. You used to be able to buy grey market lenses at low prices from www.unbeatable.co.uk, though they seem to have less stock than in years gone by. The warranty was via the shop.

[Ragna]

If a Canon user www.7dayshop.com. they do a fair range of Canon lenses at very good prices UK warranty as well.

[Ragna]

Hugh.Why are you not using Sigma lenses any more.

[James Eaton]

Hi Ragna,

I have bought a canon 100-400mm IS lens this year in singapore, which came with an international warranty, apparently Canon understand poeple are on the move these days so they give international warranty because of this. And, I had a fault 2 months in with the focusing locking under 3 metres, sent it away to Canon UK with warranty from Sinagapore, no problems at all with them for this. Which is why I don't mind being a bit adventerous for this body I suppose.

Luckily, I actually have a friend visiting the US this week, so I'm able to get them to bring it over, total cost is 600 quid exactly, but this doesnt include any lens or extras. This is through the internet with a site called royal cameras. They emailed me to say it can be delivered via FEDEX, for around 120 dollars, which will take 1 week, still a very good deal, especially if money is a bit thin on the ground like it is for me now!

I'll let you know how I get on!

All the best

[138mph]

Hugh.Why are you not using Sigma lenses any more.

To be honest I have only had one Sigma lens, a 135-400 EX which I used on Minolta 700si, 500si, and 7000. It was fairly heavy, and for such a relatively expensive lens (list price was around £500), it didn't seem that wonderful.
I find the Tamron lenses cheap, light, and sharp - definitely better results with the 28-300XR than with the Minolta f/4 70-210 and f/4 35-70. The earlier 28-200XR was not as good as the 28-300XR, but still better than the Minolta 70-210. I also found the 28-300XR better than Canon's 28-135 IS USM which I sold - I have to admit my initial reaction to the 28-135 was that it was great, but on reflection it seems to have been the digital/Canon effect rather than the lens.

Hugh

[Ragna]

Thank Hugh. James that really is a very good price even for the USA and at that price worth a chance good luck. Keep us informed.

[Ragna]

James just done a Google search on Royal cameras and they dont get very good reviews.They charge extras that are normanally inc in he price.My advice stear clear if orderring on the net, collection may be ok.