These ED78s are good...

[Paul_Gower]

I wasn't going to buy a new scope just yet, but some good fortune on the work front just had to be celebrated, and having looked at some of the options and read all the discussions on here, I thought I would check if Warehouse Express still had the Nikon offer. They said they had "one left on the shelf - might be more in the warehouse..." so I decided to go for it - angled body and 38x eyepiece.

I took it to Kenfig yesterday for its first outing and in the space of a couple of hours I saw a magnificent hen harrier, circling low over the pond, followed by about half an hour of a bittern stalking around in the open, right in front of the South Hide - even caught quite a large fish for us. Add to that the Redhead that seems to have taken up residence, all the usual pochard, tufted duck etc. - a very nice Sunday morning. Problem is, next time I use the scope I will expect nothing less...

Thanks to all the people who have posted on here with info about the Nikon, Warehouse Express etc. - I might well have missed out otherwise. And Warehouse Ex. are fantastic on the service front - highly recommended!

Paul

[Balego]

I agree, Paul
I was fortunate to come across a 78ED and snapped it up. I am more than pleased with the view I get from it. I dont have experience looking through other scopes to compare, but the fact that I could read the lettering on a truck parked across a wide river (distance of 2.22 miles!), sure impressed the heck out of me!

Yesterday was dismal weather-wise. Between bouts of light rain, it was a very dark and dull all day. When looking through the scope, however, it gave the impression of brightness so substantially that I could have sworn the sky was clearing. I was able to watch all three types of mergansers, lesser and greater scaups, ruddy ducks, two white winged scoters, an american coot, and a red tailed hawk eating his lunch in a distant freshly cut cornfield, all of which were not visible to the naked eye, and were only tiny black dots with the binoculars.

I also use it for digiscoping, and with the Nikon adapter and my CP990, it makes for one heck of a nice setup.

Bev

[joe626]

;)

Hi Paul,

I too went for this offer today. I went with the 25-75 zoom eyepiece. Not sure if that was a good eyepiece or not though?

I am not sure if I can use it for digiscoping with a 4500, but if not I will get a 30xw eyepiece.

I am not to far from the wwt in llanelli so I will try it out there when I get it.

Never been to kenfig, whats it like?

Joe :eat:

[Balego]

Joe, the zoom eyepiece is exceptional, and you certainly can digiscope with it. I am amazed with the good results I am getting with the zoom lens.

[joe626]

I am glad! This is my first scope. I was taking photos using a digital slr and telephoto lens but the hides are just too far from the birds for that setup. So I sold my long lens and put the money towards this scope and eyepiece.
I am about to get a 4500 camera to go with the scope. I would love to see some of your pictures you have taken with the same setup, if possible please?

[Balego]

Hi Joe
I have loads of photos, taken from anywhere from 20 ft to pushing the limits as far as I can, and getting relatively decent photos, if not as good as ones at closer range. In here I will include a canada goose at the distance the bird was, then the digiscoped shot. The goose was one of the ones to the right, above the post, in the distance (not the closer ones to the left). I'll also throw in a bluejay that I took from about 35 feet, as you can see, there is a bit of vignetting as I had to zoom out my camera to fit him in the lens. Depending on the distance and size of the bird, you can adjust either your camera zoom a bit, or take off the adapter and adjust the scope zoom. BTW, I've only been doing this since the end of September, so I am indeed very new to digiscoping. I love my setup, I think its doing pretty good for me.
Will you be using the Nikon adapter? Its really nice to use. A shutter release cable is imperative, also. Every little bit helps. :)
Oh, I use the 990, as I couldnt get the 4500. I dont think it will make much difference between the two cameras, maybe the higher megapixels of the 4500 will give you sharper images?

Bev

[Paul_Gower]

;)

Hi Paul,

I too went for this offer today. I went with the 25-75 zoom eyepiece. Not sure if that was a good eyepiece or not though?

I am not sure if I can use it for digiscoping with a 4500, but if not I will get a 30xw eyepiece.

I am not to far from the wwt in llanelli so I will try it out there when I get it.

Never been to kenfig, whats it like?

Joe :eat:

Joe,

Kenfig is well worth the trip. Its only a few minutes down the M4 - off at J38 or 37, through N Cornelli and follow the signs. Good to get there early in the morning. The south hide is great for bittern, water rail, and good views of ducks (e.g. the redhead) and gulls etc. across the pond, and for photography.

Just the place to put the ED78 through its paces! I'll look out for you at Llanelli - my scope is diguised in an Opticron SOC, which works quite well, if a bit fiddly for focusing.

Paul

[GeoffWood]

I am seriously considering a scope upgrade (from a Bushnell "Spacemaster"), but can't jusify £1000++ for a top of the range model.
Seeing the current offers at Warehouse Express for the Nikon ED78 and the good reports, I was thinking that this was the one to go for.

I have also seen the Zeiss Diascope 65mm Angled (Silver) that is also on offer.
The question is; which would best suit my needs? Bearing in mind what I am upgrading from and that I would like to get into Digiscoping.

Am I right in thinking that a 65mm will be better than the 65mm whatever the brand?
Any advice or experience with either scope will be appreciated.
Thanks

[joe626]

I recieved my ed78 today and am amazed at the clarity and quality of this lens. As i mentioned I bought the 25-75 zoom eyepiece with it. I would now like to hook a Nikon 4500 up to it.
I hope to make an adapter to do this myself. Could any of you explain how they work? Am I right in thinking that a step down ring screws into the 4500 lens, and then this stepdown ring is attached to a tube which slides over the eyepiece which is fixed on via grub screws or something similar?

If so all I need to actually buy is the stepdown ring and make the rest myself?

Please guide me as I want to get it right first time.....

Many Thanks

Joe :h?:

[bill lord]

I am seriously considering a scope upgrade (from a Bushnell "Spacemaster"), but can't jusify £1000++ for a top of the range model.
Seeing the current offers at Warehouse Express for the Nikon ED78 and the good reports, I was thinking that this was the one to go for.

THe ED 78 is optically as good as the top scopes, until a very short time ago it was Nikons version of a top scope and selling for £1000++. The view through them is much the same as the view through an ED 82 you would be very obsevant to see any difference at all. I bought my angled version with a zoom lens last March and have no regrets. The offer of an angled version with a 38x eyepiece has to be the steal of the century.


I have also seen the Zeiss Diascope 65mm Angled (Silver) that is also on offer.
The question is; which would best suit my needs? Bearing in mind what I am upgrading from and that I would like to get into Digiscoping.

Am I right in thinking that a 65mm will be better than the 65mm whatever the brand?
Any advice or experience with either scope will be appreciated.
Thanks

I presume you mean 78 mm will be better then a 65mm. It should let through more light be better if the light is gloomy.

[GeoffWood]

Yes thats right I meant to say that a 78mm may be better than a 65mm for digiscoping in particular, even if the Zeiss may be considered to be a better instrument.
Thanks for your input, the balance is swinging towards the Nikon.

[bill lord]

Yes thats right I meant to say that a 78mm may be better than a 65mm for digiscoping in particular, even if the Zeiss may be considered to be a better instrument.
Thanks for your input, the balance is swinging towards the Nikon.

I for one would not consider the Zeiss a better instrument, until Nikon brought out the ED 82 it was considered one of the top 3 and only personal choice made a difference to what people bought. Some people think that if you pay more for something it has to be better, I do not subscribe to that view.

[Keith Reeder]

Tell you what: my Zeiss 65 lets in massively more light than my 80mm Nikon Spotting scope in any light, and I'm delighted with my initial attempts at digiscoping with the Zeiss - as is a guy called Hornet (Marc) with his first tries, as detailed on another thread...

[bill lord]

Tell you what: my Zeiss 65 lets in massively more light than my 80mm Nikon Spotting scope in any light, and I'm delighted with my initial attempts at digiscoping with the Zeiss - as is a guy called Hornet (Marc) with his first tries, as detailed on another thread...

That is not what the evidence about light transmission says when comparing the zeiss with the Nikon ED scopes. The Spotting scope 80 is a different kettle of fish altogether. The light transmission figures that were quoted in another thread yesterday, what was said was

As far as light transmission is concerned, with present designs and coatings it is virtual dead heat between zooms and Wideangles. According to measured light transmission figures published by Markus Ludes and re-calculated for the sensitivity of the human eye during daylight conditions by Christian Losch, transmissions for Zeiss, Leica and Nikon zooms respectively were 93.8, 93.7 and 95.1%. Nikon wideangles averaged 94% and Zeiss 95.5%. Leica wides were not measured....
This was in the thread
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=246360#post246360

What I said was that in my opinion the Nikon was a better instrument but that choice between the top three was purely personal choice. I think my scope lets in more light than the Zeiss, the lleica or the swarovski ( I should have said top 4 )but that is purely personal. Others will prefer one of the others that's life, in fact there is little to choose between them. But on a simple basis, on scopes with comparable optics one with a 78mm objective will let more light through than one with a 65mm objective.

[Keith Reeder]

Hi Bill,

the Nikon 80mm spotting scope isn't an ED model - I just mentioned this to make clear that it isn't the case that a scope with a big objective will always beat a scope with a small objective, which is what Geoff had asked.

I actually made that mistake to my cost.

As to the comparision between zoom and fixed EPs, I've no doubt that they're about even now (or as near as maked no difference), and the Zeiss zoom is spectacularly good in that regard.

[bill lord]

Hi Bill,

the Nikon 80mm spotting scope isn't an ED model - I just mentioned this to make clear that it isn't the case that a scope with a big objective will always beat a scope with a small objective, which is what Geoff had asked.

I actually made that mistake to my cost.

As to the comparision between zoom and fixed EPs, I've no doubt that they're about even now (or as near as maked no difference), and the Zeiss zoom is spectacularly good in that regard.

I understand the point about the spotting scope 80 it's easy to mistake the two something which I didn't want geoff to do. As to the eyepieces for the ed scope and the zeiss scope they each have their advantages, the Zeiss has a much wider field of view at it's lowest magnification ( which is lower than the Nikon's ) but the nikon will zoom out to much greater magnifications and what is more still keep it's resolution and spot on focus from edge to edge on the image.

[Nick-on]

On Sunday I had the chance to compare both of these scopes, the 78ED with 38xW eyepiece (mine)and the 65 Zeiss with 15-45 zoom (my friends). Although I was impressed by the Zeiss I thought the ED78 was better. The 'huge' eyepiece of the zoom takes some getting used to, no matter where I placed my eye stray light kept getting in and reflecting off the purple coating, very distracting! The colour of the Zeiss seemed to have a very (very) slight yellow cast and, lastly, when they were both at the same magnification the Nikon was definitely sharper (not much but noticeable - this was agreed by both of us). My friend is still happy with his scope, he likes the light weight and the zoom, plus it is 10x better than his old Kowa 611 (I forgot to mention though that he hates the Zeiss stay-on- case, but at least he has got one!) but IMHO the ED78 is slightly better (although I may be biased) and excellent value.

Nick

[hornet]

Tell you what: my Zeiss 65 lets in massively more light than my 80mm Nikon Spotting scope in any light, and I'm delighted with my initial attempts at digiscoping with the Zeiss - as is a guy called Hornet (Marc) with his first tries, as detailed on another thread...

Geoff,

As Keith said, I'm well chuffed. Can't tell you which is the brighter though, cos I've never used a Nikon.

But I'll let you into a little secret - I've never been able to tell much difference in any of the top end scopes I've tried (Leica, Zeiss, Swaro - I'll bet it's true for Nikon as well). I've got enough problems trying to spot subtle differences between birds, let alone try to locate subtle differences between scopes.

With optics I just like it bright and sharp, reasonable field of view and depth, good colours - wouldn't know CA from a hole in the ground. All the modern top end scopes are awesome if you ask me, and pass my one simple test - do they allow me to get on and watch the birds without worrying about the optics?

I only chose the Zeiss 65 cos I'm a lazy git (it's small and lightish) and tight (£600 is a complete steal - I kept waiting for them to change their mind and not sell it to me).

You'll be delighted with either of them, and either will do you a fine job for digiscoping I'm sure. Particularly if you're like me, a birder who likes to take photographs rather than a photographer of birds (I hope that makes sense).

Enjoy whichever you choose.

[GeoffWood]

Thanks everyone for their input. I have now checked with WE for stock situation of the angled models.
They have the Nikon ED 78 with either 38x or 50x fixed magnification eyepieces.
They also have the Zeiss Diascope 65 with 23x fixed magnification eyepieces or a 15x - 45x zoom.
I would have liked the Nikon with a zoom, but I am now swaying towards the Zeiss. Decisive or what?~!!

[bill lord]

Thanks everyone for their input. I have now checked with WE for stock situation of the angled models.
They have the Nikon ED 78 with either 38x or 50x fixed magnification eyepieces.
They also have the Zeiss Diascope 65 with 23x fixed magnification eyepieces or a 15x - 45x zoom.
I would have liked the Nikon with a zoom, but I am now swaying towards the Zeiss. Decisive or what?~!!

So they have sold out of the body only kits have they? This was the way of getting the ed 78 with a zoom.

[scampo]

Thanks everyone for their input. I have now checked with WE for stock situation of the angled models.
They have the Nikon ED 78 with either 38x or 50x fixed magnification eyepieces.
They also have the Zeiss Diascope 65 with 23x fixed magnification eyepieces or a 15x - 45x zoom.
I would have liked the Nikon with a zoom, but I am now swaying towards the Zeiss. Decisive or what?~!!
I understand that, like for like, an 82mm will always be sharper than a 65mm objective.

Both of these scopes are first class. The Zeiss 65 is beautifully compact and easy to carry and it does have a slightly warmer image than the very faithful-to-nature Nikon (but this is a design attribute to help its vision in poor light, I gather). The Zeiss zoom is utterly outstanding for birding as it is so very wide, but the Nikon 78 (or 82) with the 30 or 38x is indeed very hard to beat and really does have what many seem to call the "Wow!" factor.

[GeoffWood]

So they have sold out of the body only kits have they? This was the way of getting the ed 78 with a zoom.

I may not have reported accurately. I believe that the Nikon ED78 is sold as "body only" @ £449. The eyepiece is extra and there appears to be only 38x and 50x available.
Unless there is a zoom eyepiece available elsewhere. Or would the zoom from the ED 82 fit?
Will sleep on it!

[bill lord]

I may not have reported accurately. I believe that the Nikon ED78 is sold as "body only" @ £449. The eyepiece is extra and there appears to be only 38x and 50x available.
Unless there is a zoom eyepiece available elsewhere. Or would the zoom from the ED 82 fit?
Will sleep on it!

The zoom for the ED82 fits a treat. If you look at the ED 82 section on the warehouse express site it lists all the eyepieces available. If you have seen an ed 82 and looked through it then you have seen the view that you will get through the Ed 78.

[iporali]

If you have seen an ed 82 and looked through it then you have seen the view that you will get through the Ed 78.
Except that the new model has a better multicoating and thus slightly better brightness and contrast.

Ilkka

[dogfish]

Except that the new model has a better multicoating and thus slightly better brightness and contrast.

Ilkka

And is waterproof, and has a sliding lens hood

[william j clive]

And is waterproof, and has a sliding lens hood


AND is nearly twice the price. Nice.....

[william j clive]

And is nearly twice the price.

Nice.


Very nice.

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Although if you go for the W/Express bundle deal on the ED82 with CP4500 and attachments, the difference is not that great over buying the ED78 and a CP4500. I reckoned it was worth the extra couple of hundred quid for the advantages of waterproofing, hood, very good stay on case etc. The ED78 is still a great deal if you just want the scope but if you're thinking of getting a digital camera and attachments then you might want to consider the ED82 bundle offer. For an all-round birding scope (combining portability, quality and versatility), I reckon the Zeiss 65 with a zoom lens is probably hard to beat at the offer price. It's a good time to be buying a scope.

[bill lord]

Except that the new model has a better multicoating and thus slightly better brightness and contrast.

Ilkka

It takes exceptional circumstances to see the difference, I've been totally unable to looking at the same things through identical eyepieces set at the same levels.

[DuncanR]

Hi, I'm looking to buy my first scope and had planned on spending up to about £500. I was considering an Opticron or Kowa, but the offers on the Nikon and Zeiss look tempting. The Nikon ED78 is offered by Warehouse Express as body only for £449 or with 38xW or 50xW for an extra £100 (so I've already blown my budget!). The 25-75x zoom listed under the ED82 is £229 (making £678 in total on an ED78 body - assuming it fits). Alternatively, the Zeiss 65 with 15-45x zoom is £619.
Assuming I decide to pay the extra for the Nikon/Zeiss instead of an Opticron, as a novice, which scope and which lens should I go for?

[Tim Allwood]

Hiya Duncan

the ED78 takes all the new MC eyepieces for the ED82. Along with one of these with a 30 x fixed I also use a Kowa 613 fluorite scope which is mega lite. If i were buying a single scope now I would probably go sec hand but if you want new the Zeiss is a good compromise between 'large' and 'small' scopes and a bargain at the Warehouse Express price

atb
Tim

[scampo]

The Zeiss, if they still have any, will be all you would ever need. The zoom would be my choice as it offers a uniquely wide view for that kind of eyepiece.

The Nikon is a larger scope and, again, quite superb. I would go for the zoom (MCII) or - a better buy, I reckon - the 30x (MCII).

[bill lord]

Hi, I'm looking to buy my first scope and had planned on spending up to about £500. I was considering an Opticron or Kowa, but the offers on the Nikon and Zeiss look tempting. The Nikon ED78 is offered by Warehouse Express as body only for £449 or with 38xW or 50xW for an extra £100 (so I've already blown my budget!). The 25-75x zoom listed under the ED82 is £229 (making £678 in total on an ED78 body - assuming it fits). Alternatively, the Zeiss 65 with 15-45x zoom is £619.
Assuming I decide to pay the extra for the Nikon/Zeiss instead of an Opticron, as a novice, which scope and which lens should I go for?

All of us Nikon Ed 78 owners would say go for the Nikon, I suspect that the Zeiss owners would say go for the zeiss. Not that we are at all biased mind. The best thing you can do is to go and view both and see which you like the best. Having said that it will be difficult. You could go to an In Focus shop and view the Nikon ED 82 which would tell you what you would see through the ED 78, I can't tell the difference people tell me there is one but it's very minimal, you will be lucky if you can view an ED 78 only WE seem to have them. They also sell the zeiss diascope 65 so you could compare. Their prces are nowhere near the Warehouse express price.

When I bought my nikon I chose the zoom eyepiece, and have not regretted it, i know of a number of people who have the 38x eyepiece who are very happy with it. If price is critical then the Nikon with the 38x lens will not disappoint you, this eyepiece is in the range you would use the zoom most often anyway. What you lose out on is some restriction in your digiscoping ability ( though not a lot ) and the extreme magnification ( which I have only needed once in the 8 months I've had my setup. )

[dogfish]

If anyone's thinking about buying a Nikon ED78 or 82 it's worth reading the Alula magazine review of the new 82, now online at www.alula.fi
General conclusion is that it's a significant step forward from the ED 78.

Sean

[bill lord]

If anyone's thinking about buying a Nikon ED78 or 82 it's worth reading the Alula magazine review of the new 82, now online at www.alula.fi
General conclusion is that it's a significant step forward from the ED 78.

Sean

I can go to the site but cannot read any articles, they tell me which magazine the article is in but nothing else. Am I looking in the wrong place. The ED 82 is a significant step forwards, it is waterproof, nitrogen purged and slightly more compact, I am told that the coatings have been improved but I have never been able to see any difference.

[pduxon]

I can go to the site but cannot read any articles, they tell me which magazine the article is in but nothing else. Am I looking in the wrong place. The ED 82 is a significant step forwards, it is waterproof, nitrogen purged and slightly more compact, I am told that the coatings have been improved but I have never been able to see any difference.

you have to click on the date

[bill lord]

you have to click on the date

Thanks I got there in the end. It's interesting.

[scampo]

If anyone's thinking about buying a Nikon ED78 or 82 it's worth reading the Alula magazine review of the new 82, now online at www.alula.fi (http://www.alula.fi/)
General conclusion is that it's a significant step forward from the ED 78.

Sean
A super review by Alula - it's so much more trustworthy than what our own magazines reviewers write at times. My son has the ED82 with zoom and 30x. It is a quite outstanding scope as I have said before. I agree, though, with Bill concerning the qualities of the ED78, which at the WE price remaions a true and unusual bargain for such a high quality scope. The b eautifully contrasty faithful-to-nature image offered by either Nikon is outstanding.

That said... the uniquely wide angle view offered by the Zeiss zoom attached either to their 65T*FL or an 85T*FL is something rather special indeed.

[DuncanR]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I had been considering second-hand, but the WE offers brought scopes into my price range which I had previously dismissed as too expensive new.
One other question occurs to me - should I go for straight or angled? I had assumed angled (I'm 6 foot tall), but a lot of the secondhand scopes I have seen advertised are straight. Opinions please?
Cheers,
Duncan

[bill lord]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I had been considering second-hand, but the WE offers brought scopes into my price range which I had previously dismissed as too expensive new.
One other question occurs to me - should I go for straight or angled? I had assumed angled (I'm 6 foot tall), but a lot of the secondhand scopes I have seen advertised are straight. Opinions please?
Cheers,
Duncan

My first scope was a straight one and I liked it, but when my wife wanted to view I had to lower the scope and refind what was in view. When I bought the Nikon I got the angled scope which was different, but I now look through the scope comfortably at a level that my wife can also view through the scope and when in a hide I can turn the body through 90 degrees to make viewing easier. Plus the tripod, my first scope was a 20X Nikon 60mm spotting scope that came out of the ark, on the top of my tripod it was stable and no problems. The new scope on the top of the old tripod with the centre rod raised was not as stable it was easy to get some vibration, but since I now use the tripod lower and no rise on the centre the scope is absolutely stable. I would recommend an angled scope for you, it works well for me at 5'10" it should do just as well for 6'.

[scampo]

Angled seem to me to be more comfortable for tall folk. Since changing to angled years ago, I'd never revert to straight through.