PDA

View Full Version : Help with ID

Fritz73
Saturday 30th October 2004, 17:24
This hummingbird I photographed in Pueto Iguazu, NE Argentina (near Iguazu Falls). For me it looks like Amazilia versicolor, but I think the blue at the throat looks wrong. Could it be A. lactea or A. fimbriata?
cuckooroller
Saturday 30th October 2004, 18:02
Fritz,
I flipped through my images of Amazilia v. versicolor, Amazilia l. lactea, and Amazilia fimbriata tephrocephala. My conclusion is that it is Amazilia versicolor.
Fritz73
Sunday 31st October 2004, 14:40
Fritz,
I flipped through my images of Amazilia v. versicolor, Amazilia l. lactea, and Amazilia fimbriata tephrocephala. My conclusion is that it is Amazilia versicolor.

Thanks cuckooroller!

To be able to separate the species in future, could you please explain to me the differences between the A. versicolor, A. lactea and A. fiambriata?
arthurgrosset
Sunday 31st October 2004, 17:19
It looks just like A. versicolor to me. A. lactea is much bluer round the head and throat with an obviously red bill with dark tip while A. fimbriata tends to have a more marked white stripe up the middle of the breast.

See my photos at http://www.arthurgrosset.com/sabirds/versicoloredemerald.html and the following two pages.
Fritz73
Sunday 31st October 2004, 17:48
Thanks Arthur. Very nice photos at your web page. I see the differences with A. fimbriata. At the A. lactea page, the first looks an Amazilia. I see the difference with my photo at the darker blue throat and more marked white stripe at the breast. But the photos 2, 3, 4 & 5 at your A. lactea page looks to me a Sapphire: Hylocharis cyanus.
cuckooroller
Monday 1st November 2004, 05:57
Fritz,

Have sent you a PM.
cuckooroller
Monday 1st November 2004, 06:34
But the photos 2, 3, 4 & 5 at your A. lactea page looks to me a Sapphire: Hylocharis cyanus.

Fritz,
I don't agree. My images of H. cyanus have a small white chin, a different hue of violet and an evident green belly.
arthurgrosset
Monday 1st November 2004, 16:10
But the photos 2, 3, 4 & 5 at your A. lactea page looks to me a Sapphire: Hylocharis cyanus.

Fritz,
I think you might be right but it would be a first for Sao Paulo City so it's worth checking thoroughly. The bill seems to look more Hylocharis than Amazilia and the sub-species in the city of Sao Paulo where these photos were taken would be H. c. griseiventris which would have a greyish belly rather than the green belly that Steve mentions.
There's a group of Brazilian experts having dinner this Thursday in the very house where these photos were taken and I have asked them to give an opinion.
If you look up http://www.ib.usp.br/ceo/avesdomunicipio.htm (http://) you will see that H. cyanus does not appear on the list so, if you are correct, it will be an addition to the Sao Paulo City list.
cuckooroller
Monday 1st November 2004, 17:52
Arthur,
I am sure you will let us know the verdict. Attaching the only sure photo I have in the Database of H.c.griseiventris. Looks to be an adult male. Unfortunately, the angle of the shot doesn't permit a real good look at the underbelly.
Fritz73
Monday 1st November 2004, 22:28
Arthur

Please let us know any news about H. cyanus. I thought they were this species because in the third photo you could see also the brown back against the dark tail plus the tipical Hylocharis bill. Also I saw a similar Hummer at Ubatuba, SP, last summer. Ubatuba is at the north coast of the state of Sao Paulo near the State Park Serra do Mar. I was visiting at that moment the Fazenda do Capricornio. This Hummer was more greyish. I will search if I have a photo an attach it.

Cheers, Fritz
Fritz73
Monday 1st November 2004, 22:33
A very interesting book for Hummer is one called: 'Os beija-flores do Brasil' written by Rolf Grantsau. You could find it in portuguese or german. A friend of mine buyed one for me last month in Rio de Janeiro. Really interesting plates, specially the Hylocharis cyanus.
arthurgrosset
Thursday 4th November 2004, 21:28
Arthur

Please let us know any news about H. cyanus. I thought they were this species because in the third photo you could see also the brown back against the dark tail plus the tipical Hylocharis bill. Also I saw a similar Hummer at Ubatuba, SP, last summer.
Cheers, Fritz

Well Fritz, I have to thank you for an armchair tick and a new page for my website (when I have the time).
You are absolutely correct. The photos 2, 3, 4 & 5 at my A. lactea page are in fact of White-chinned Sapphire: Hylocharis cyanus.
The photos were taken in the Sao Paulo garden of Jeremy Minns and we both just assumed that they were Amazilia lactea. Today he had lunch with Luis Fabio Silveira, Bret Whitney and Guy Kirwan and they all immediately agreed with your id.
So many thanks for your help in correcting this. I will advise the appropriate authorities (Luiz Fernando Figueiredo) that he can add this species to the Sao Paulo City list
Fritz73
Friday 5th November 2004, 00:03
Excellent!

Possibly I`ll visit Brasil in Jannuary. Not the best month but you never know. I´m plan to travel to Rio de Janeiro. You know some good places around Rio?
cuckooroller
Friday 5th November 2004, 08:34
Arthur,
Thanks for the update. I would never have thought to question the ID as given on your site. Good eyes Fritz. Another little bit of knowledge in the almost arcane and esoteric art of bird identification!
arthurgrosset
Friday 5th November 2004, 10:09
Excellent!

Possibly I`ll visit Brasil in Jannuary. Not the best month but you never know. I´m plan to travel to Rio de Janeiro. You know some good places around Rio?
I haven't been to the Rio area for a while but check out Jeremy Minn's site notes at http://www.arthurgrosset.com/sitenotes/brazil.html