Another sick act

[helenol]

From the local rag.

A swan was found decapitated, gutted, and the body skinned, on the River Wye in High Wycombe. It is believed, according to Her Majestys Swan Marker Mr X, that the bird was killed to be eaten.

The swan is said to be a mature female. A pair of swans had been recorded on the River Wye, but it is not clear whether the dead swan was one of the pair, as the legs carrying the identity tag had been hacked off, as well as the wings.

The newspaper published a photo of the remains of the swan - shocking - but hopefully it will persuade someone who knows anything about this to come forward. Personally I don't hold out much hope...

Sickening isn't it.

[pduxon]

ye gods, there are some sick people about

[Tim Allwood]

some hungry people too....

wonder what it tastes like?

bustard maybe? ;)

[Ghostly Vision]

Not as bad as the little b*stards that set fire to female swans on the nest - that has happened round here.

The lot of em need taking into care on the Scillies..........

S

[saluki]

From the local rag.

A swan was found decapitated, gutted, and the body skinned, on the River Wye in High Wycombe. It is believed, according to Her Majestys Swan Marker Mr X, that the bird was killed to be eaten.

The swan is said to be a mature female. A pair of swans had been recorded on the River Wye, but it is not clear whether the dead swan was one of the pair, as the legs carrying the identity tag had been hacked off, as well as the wings.

The newspaper published a photo of the remains of the swan - shocking - but hopefully it will persuade someone who knows anything about this to come forward. Personally I don't hold out much hope...

Sickening isn't it.

Hi Helen,

Sorry, was it just the entrails, wings, etc that were found, or did they leave the carcass behind too? It does, indeed, sound as if was being prepared to eat - so I wonder why it was left behind (if that's the case)?

As Tim says, there are a lot of hungry people about, and also a lot of people who's cultures don't neccessarily correspond with our own attitudes towards wildlife. Personally, I find it far easier to understand why someone would kill a swan to eat, rather than some lout with a gun taking pot-shots at Ospreys. Not saying it's right of course, but the reasons may not be as straight forward as a simple case of wanton killing.

saluki

[saluki]

some hungry people too....

wonder what it tastes like?

bustard maybe? ;)

'Like tough, fishy duck'. Geese above a year or so old are a bit stringy to say the least - I dread to think what a twenty year old swan would taste like!

In case you ever feel the urge to indulge:

http://bertc.com/swans.htm

saluki

[Jos Stratford]

there are a lot of hungry people about, and also a lot of people who's cultures don't neccessarily correspond with our own attitudes towards wildlife.

Don't quite buy this ...exactly which 'culture' in the UK has the attitude that it is okay to butcher and eat a swan? And as for 'a lot of hungry people', I will take that as an attempt of humour (I did spot the :) in the original message), 'cos I can pretty well be sure that swan was not killed by someone suffering hunger pains!

[DJ Sideboard]

I'm guessing it was killed to feed animals, rather then humans!.

[helenol]

Saluki, I'm not sure whether the body was left, but as they said it had been skinned I'm assuming it was.

[saluki]

Don't quite buy this ...exactly which 'culture' in the UK has the attitude that it is okay to butcher and eat a swan? And as for 'a lot of hungry people', I will take that as an attempt of humour (I did spot the :) in the original message), 'cos I can pretty well be sure that swan was not killed by someone suffering hunger pains!

You believe that every race, creed and religeon shares the UK's affinity with swans - why on earth should they? People from all over the world regularly kill and eat wild birds - did you not know this Jos? You may have a better explanation as to why the bird seems to have been prepared for eating?

saluki

[samuel walker]

I saw a grown mute in action against a groundskeeper at a golf resort.Not a bird to push around.I do hope your swan got her licks in and the creep is feeling the pain.
Sam

[jpoyner]

From the local rag.

A swan was found decapitated, gutted, and the body skinned, on the River Wye in High Wycombe. It is believed, according to Her Majestys Swan Marker Mr X, that the bird was killed to be eaten.

The swan is said to be a mature female. A pair of swans had been recorded on the River Wye, but it is not clear whether the dead swan was one of the pair, as the legs carrying the identity tag had been hacked off, as well as the wings.

The newspaper published a photo of the remains of the swan - shocking - but hopefully it will persuade someone who knows anything about this to come forward. Personally I don't hold out much hope...

Sickening isn't it.


My gut reaction too, however I realise that living in a multi-cultural society our traditional view of The Swan is not shared by others. They probably are not even be aware that it is protected and actually believed there was nothing wrong with taking it.
It's easy to jump to conclusions from hyped media reports of sickos killing Swans.

JP

[AcidEric]

some hungry people too....

wonder what it tastes like?

bustard maybe? ;)


I've just heard from a friend (who accidentally killed a swan while out fishing for his dinner, He was a traveller at the time) that "swan tastes like stagnant pond water and was too chewy Urrrgh it was 'orrible" it put him off them for life.

[Jos Stratford]

You believe that every race, creed and religeon shares the UK's affinity with swans - why on earth should they? People from all over the world regularly kill and eat wild birds - did you not know this Jos? You may have a better explanation as to why the bird seems to have been prepared for eating?


Thank you, but I am quite aware that people from all over the world regularly kill and eat wild birds, I am not quite so naive! However, is there any suggestion that this swan killed in the UK was done by a race, creed or religion that doesn't share the 'UK's affinity with swans'?

Unless there is some suggestion to point otherwise, I would think a better explanation would be that maybe someone, regardless of race, creed or religion, got some kind of kick out of this act. This kind of person does exist in the UK - did you not know Saluki?

[Andrew Rowlands]

There have been claims in the UK media, during the last few years, that 'asylum seekers' have been killing swans for food.

Andy.

[saluki]

Thank you, but I am quite aware that people from all over the world regularly kill and eat wild birds, I am not quite so naive! However, is there any suggestion that this swan killed in the UK was done by a race, creed or religion that doesn't share the 'UK's affinity with swans'?

Unless there is some suggestion to point otherwise, I would think a better explanation would be that maybe someone, regardless of race, creed or religion, got some kind of kick out of this act. This kind of person does exist in the UK - did you not know Saluki?

If you read Helen's original post you will see that it was suggested that the bird had been killed to be eaten - that's why I made my original suggestion. Don't know if you've ever tried to skin a bird Jos - especially one as large as a swan - but it isn't easy. An odd thing for someone to do simply for kicks - you obviously know otherwise however.

saluki

[Jos Stratford]

An odd thing for someone to do simply for kicks - you obviously know otherwise however.


I won't even bother to respond to this last statement.

I think all on this forum deplore the butchering a swan, let's hope whoever did it are apprehended and get what they deserve. Nothing more to add from my point of view.

[simondix]

I am led to understand that swan has been served up at banquets on State Occasions quite recently.. Also originally why were and still are swans owned by the crown and certain city organisations?

[helenol]

I seem to remember we have a member by the name of ukswanman (?). Hopefully he will be able to give us some insight into why and who "owns" the swans, plus provide any info regarding reports on swans allegedly being killed for food.

[saluki]

"An odd thing for someone to do simply for kicks - you obviously know otherwise however".


I won't even bother to respond to this last statement.

Why not? You obviously assumed that there was another reason why the swan was killed?


I think all on this forum deplore the butchering a swan, let's hope whoever did it are apprehended and get what they deserve. Nothing more to add from my point of view.

Hmm. That wouldn't have anything to do with you not having read Helen's original post properly, jumping on my suggestion for no apparent reason, then reading jpoyner's (admittedly, far more eloquent) post in a similar vein to mine, would it? And can I pressume you will be harrassing John for making similar suggestions?

saluki

[Glyn Kirpalani]

Hi Guys

Before I came to Tobago back in 03, I was a Chief Immigration Officer working in London alongside the Met Police in attempting to catch and remove failed asylum seekers.

A few years ago the killing for food of swans (and ducks etc) by asylum seekers came to light and the police sought our help in putting together operations to catch them at it - the killing of swans remaining a criminal offence unless permission of the crown is sought. One officer told me the crime was still treason - which used to carry the death penalty - but I think he was just a little over-enthusiastic (any UK coppers reading?). Since none of the culprits had called Buck Palace for permission first, they were committing criminal acts.

Our research revealed that Swan meat is considered a delicacy in eastern europe, especially Romania. Some of those arrested were Romanian Roma (gypsies as used to be known), others were young Kosovan males whose asylum claims had failed and were at large with no social support any more.

Pretty quickly the hard pressed police resources were diverted back to muggers, yardies and reloading film into speed cameras ;) , so the ops died out, but most police officers and my colleagues were pretty upset by the practice - hithertoo the preserve of UK poachers and a rare event.

So, the consumption had no sick or satanic connotations - just a new practice introduced by "new" (recent) immigrant groups to arrive in the UK. A combination of the delicacy thing and a desire to save money, I imagine. I have no doubt that it must be continuing, and will, of course, increase in frequency as the immigrant groups who do it increase in size - until and unless they can be assimilated into the "village green" British culture, if you know what I mean.

Hope this helps - my post is not designed to stir up xenophobia, but those UK readers who dislike the (criminal) practice should write to Mr Blunkett, their MPs, local police chiefs, RSPCA enforcement officers etc, seeking better education of asylum seekers into UK laws, plus more resources for enforcement of the laws - against UK and foreign nationals alike.

Glyn

[Bluetail]

One officer told me the crime was still treason - which used to carry the death penaltyStill does, Glyn.

[Katy Penland]

Can we please keep the OT rhetoric to a minimum, guys?

[Glyn Kirpalani]

Hi Jason

The UK death penalty for high treason/piracy no longer exists since Boy Blair signed us up to the Human Rights Act 1998 - ensuring that all UK laws and courts must comply with the European Convention of Human Rights - the articles of which include the "right to life". No EU member state can put anyone to death now, legally at least!

This means that killing swans, or the royals themselves, will not now get you hung. (Although the latter might get you shot in the act).

regards
Glyn

[Tim Allwood]

thanks for the info Glyn

very interesting indeed; working in Great Yarmouth, which has a large refugee 'problem' I had a little inkling that something like you mention might have been the case...

we often don't realise how desparate some people are.....

doesn't make it ok i guess but at least for me it's better than some 'mindless' act.

[Bluetail]

Oops, I'd forgotten that. Thanks for the reminder, Glyn.

[IanF]

We had a similar problem with Asylum Seekers killing Swans to eat. Whilst distasteful and illegal to us it was a natural thing for them to do - a ready food source. Once the problem had been identified it was dealt with quickly by the police through consultation in community meetings informing them of our laws and culture. It seems to have done the trick.

[Gashead]

Originally Posted by Glyn KirpalaniOne officer told me the crime was still treason - which used to carry the death penalty

Still does, Glyn.

Repealed in 1999 Jason, Capital Punishment no longer exists for any crime (inc. arson in HM dockyards) in GB and NI.

[Gashead]

Sorry to be a parrot, missed earlier post, it was actually abolished jan 1999.

[David Bryant]

As a matter of fact, there is a similar situation regarding freshwater coarse fish. Eating these is pretty much unheard of in UK cuisine (although 200 years ago Pike, Carp and Tench were very popular!) Recently there has been a lot of press coverage of newly arrived immigrants fishing for the pot from privately stocked lakes and canals! I find it really interesting how disparate our tastes in food are! I've eaten Pike (in France) and found it quite unpleasant...... The 'locals' ate in with obvious enjoyment! The current rapid mixing of cultures is really highlighting such differences: the ultimate example, I suppose, would be the hundred thousand tons of 'bush meat' (monkey, elephant, grasscutter rats etc) that entered the UK illegally last year, and the ritual murder of the little West African boy 'Adam' associated with the trade........

[helenol]

Whilst distasteful and illegal to us it was a natural thing for them to do - a ready food source.
I think it's a poor excuse to say an act is "natural". If we go down that road, wherever will it end, I dread to think. Pet dog a l'orange - you get my drift. But then, there's "a lot of hungry people about". Just for the record, I personally don't have a problem with what people eat in their respective country.

I'm glad to hear the problem was addressed and dealt with.

Incidently, why would one go to the trouble of skinning a huge bird, and then leave the remains there at the river? A case of being disturbed and knowing that they were committing a crime perhaps?

[Anthony Morton]

As a matter of fact, there is a similar situation regarding freshwater coarse fish. Eating these is pretty much unheard of in UK cuisine (although 200 years ago Pike, Carp and Tench were very popular!) Recently there has been a lot of press coverage of newly arrived immigrants fishing for the pot from privately stocked lakes and canals!


Hi David,

Blast - you beat me to it with this one, boy. Absolutely spot on observation though!

Anthony

[DJ Sideboard]

I've eaten Pike (in France) and found it quite unpleasant......

Pike is well nice!. Lots of bones though............

[David Bryant]

Pike is well nice!. Lots of bones though............
Funny thing! I've eaten pike and perch in Scotland and it was YUM! Like trout! But in France (Brochet au beurre blanc!) it was like mud flavoured cotton wool with needles! Guess it's the difference between eutrophic and oligotrophic lakes / rivers!

[helenol]

it was like mud flavoured cotton wool with needles!
Remind me not to go to your house for dinner!

[David Bryant]

Remind me not to go to your house for dinner!
Actually Helen, I'm (amongst other things!) a trained Chef! You'd LOVE dinner here! (As long as you're a veggie like me!)

[helenol]

(As long as you're a veggie like me!)
Get outta here.... ;)

That's a whole new thread!

[IanF]

I think it's a poor excuse to say an act is "natural". If we go down that road, wherever will it end, I dread to think. Pet dog a l'orange - you get my drift. But then, there's "a lot of hungry people about". Just for the record, I personally don't have a problem with what people eat in their respective country.

I'm glad to hear the problem was addressed and dealt with.

Incidently, why would one go to the trouble of skinning a huge bird, and then leave the remains there at the river? A case of being disturbed and knowing that they were committing a crime perhaps?
I was hardly making excuses for them and certainly not justifiying their actions, rather viewing the circumstances from a different point of view. Different cultures do things differently. They were capturing the Swans to eat as opposed to simple butchery and leaving the remains in place. Skinning and just taking away the meat but leaving the useless material is what some hunters do.

I'm afraid that it has already happened with dogs as well. I find it surprsing as they seem to be given ample benefits from the State, but some people always want more. Hopefully all that is behind us now as the people concerned are educated in our culture. I suspect many of the people concerned will remain in this country by fair means or fowl, sorry foul ;) especially as the authorities appear to withdrawing benefits to those from countries where wars and attrocities are over with a view to repatriation. A downside is that many of them are disappearing into the woodwork with little hope of tracing.

[simondix]

Going back to the treason theme, there is apparently an Act passed in the Middle Ages which makes it an offence to kill Swans. From what I recall two men in Gloucestershire were convicted under the act sometime in the last ten years or so. I believe they were imprisoned.

Interesting thought, under the Wildlife and Countryside Act any tools used to commit an offence can be siezed and forfeited. If they had false teeth and ate the swn could they have them confiscated?

[helenol]

Ian - thanks for the clarification.

Simon - A man was jailed for three months in Devon earlier this year for wringing a swans neck then slamming it down onto concrete.

[salty]

Ian - thanks for the clarification.

Simon - A man was jailed for three months in Devon earlier this year for wringing a swans neck then slamming it down onto concrete.

dont know why people would want to kill such lovely birds!

[Tim Allwood]

I'm afraid that it has already happened with dogs as well. I find it surprsing as they seem to be given ample benefits from the State, but some people always want more. Hopefully all that is behind us now as the people concerned are educated in our culture. I suspect many of the people concerned will remain in this country by fair means or fowl, sorry foul ;) especially as the authorities appear to withdrawing benefits to those from countries where wars and attrocities are over with a view to repatriation. A downside is that many of them are disappearing into the woodwork with little hope of tracing.

you're being a bit harsh here Ian ;)

good luck to them i say

can anyone quote me the 'ample benefits' they actually get. I mean official stats.......?

[DJ Sideboard]

Funny thing! I've eaten pike and perch in Scotland and it was YUM! Like trout! But in France (Brochet au beurre blanc!) it was like mud flavoured cotton wool with needles! Guess it's the difference between eutrophic and oligotrophic lakes / rivers!

I've only eaten it in France!. It was great!. You must have had a dud!

[Anthony Morton]

Actually Helen, I'm (amongst other things!) a trained Chef! You'd LOVE dinner here! (As long as you're a veggie like me!)

Hi David,

I've got a recipe for pike that you might like to try. Place the fish on a board approx 24" x 18" to gut it. Use the back of a knife to scrape the scales off, working from the direction of the tail up towards the head. When clean, cut the fillet from each side of the fish, starting just behind the gills and running through to the tail, and cover them in flour. Heat a large pan with approx. half an inch of olive oil in it. When the oil begins to smoke, gently lower both fillets in. Gently drizzle a little wine of your choice onto the fillets and season them with freshly-ground black pepper and a liberal handful of sea salt. Garlic can also be added if required. Cover the pan and cook on full heat for about 5 minutes. When the pike fillets turn golden-brown they are done. Throw them in the dustbin and eat the board you prepared the fish on while drinking the remainer of the wine - it's much tastier than the pike, honestly! B (: B (:

Anthony

[desgreene]

Hi David,

I've got a recipe for pike that you might like to try. Place the fish on a board approx 24" x 18" to gut it. Use the back of a knife to scrape the scales off, working from the direction of the tail up towards the head. When clean, cut the fillet from each side of the fish, starting just behind the gills and running through to the tail, and cover them in flour. Heat a large pan with approx. half an inch of olive oil in it. When the oil begins to smoke, gently lower both fillets in. Gently drizzle a little wine of your choice onto the fillets and season them with freshly-ground black pepper and a liberal handful of sea salt. Garlic can also be added if required. Cover the pan and cook on full heat for about 5 minutes. When the pike fillets turn golden-brown they are done. Throw them in the dustbin and eat the board you prepared the fish on while drinking the remainer of the wine - it's much tastier than the pike, honestly! B (: B (:

Anthony

Nice one Anthony, love it!

Never tried pike, but had zander in Bavaria, which was actually very nice.

Des.

[DJ Sideboard]

Throw them in the dustbin and eat the board you prepared the fish on while drinking the remainer of the wine

|:d| |:d|

I remember seeing a similar recipe for Canada Goose, where you weighted the goose down with a large stone in a big pan and boiled it for 24 hours. And then threw away the water and goose and ate the stone.....

[KnockerNorton]

I found the remains of a swan that had been killed to eat in Hull about 10 years ago. There was a pile of feathers, plus the head & neck, wings and feet. It was obvious what had happened, and was just before Christmas. Funnily enough, a few weeks earlier I'd found some sort of amateurish snare-type thing strung across the canal. It was made out of seafishing line, bank to bank.

Interestingly, considering earlier posts, this was in the days when Hull's population was 99% white, and the only ethnic minorities were, literally, Chinese restauranteurs and South Asian doctors. In other words, it was a local lad wot dunnit.

I too have heard they're greasy and fishy (swans, not Hull lads).

[Anthony Morton]

Here in the UK acts such as this are totally abhorrent to us. Yet in some countries they would be looked upon as nothing more than taking advantage of nature's 'free' harvest.

This was illustrated on a trip to China, when we were told that the only thing with wings you can't eat is an aeroplane and the only thing with legs that you can't eat is a table. It certainly explains their 'take' on things I think!

[oceans]

dont know why people would want to kill such lovely birds!
Awwwwww....dont you think Turkeys pretty? Chickens? perhaps not....pheasant? yes theyre pretty and yes, edible too!!! Sorry for the sarcasm but really!!