Problem with Zeiss 8x42 FL

[devon.birder]

Last month I bought a pair of Zeiss Victory 8x42 to replace my Zeizz 8x56. Whilst these bins are excellent I have noticed a very annoying problem with the focusing knob in that if you are not carefull it tends to lift and before you realise it you have altered the Diopter adjustment. This has happened several times now and I am wondering whether this is a fault with my pair or whether I just have to be more carefull when I focus. Roger

[Andrew Rowlands]

Could this be related to the way you lift them from the case, Roger?

Andy.

[devon.birder]

Could this be related to the way you lift them from the case, Roger?

Andy.

Hi Andy. I have not put the bins in the case since I bought them so it can't be that. It must be something in the way I focus that is causing this problem though. I only notice that the focusing knob has lifted when what I am looking at appears to be out of focus. Roger

[Curtis Croulet]

I have found myself inadvertantly adjusting the diopter setting rather than focusing. I think it's usually a result of grabbing them wrong when picking them up, but also it appears that a chance bump in just the right orientation can also cause this. It's rare, but when it happens, it's a nuisance. The less elegant diopter adjustment on my lowly Eagle Optics bin (a collar around the right eyepiece) hasn't budged in the 2-1/2 years since I set it. Fortunately, the diopter adjustment of the Zeiss is precise and repeatable, so I can dial in my preferred setting and know that it's going to be right.

[Scott Poynter]

Hi Roger,
I tried a new pair of these at Cleyspy and found exactly the same problem.The lock seemed to come loose very easily.I wasn't sure if it was just the pair that had been handled a lot in the shop.It seems not.
Scott.

[Leif]

Last month I bought a pair of Zeiss Victory 8x42 to replace my Zeizz 8x56. Whilst these bins are excellent I have noticed a very annoying problem with the focusing knob in that if you are not carefull it tends to lift and before you realise it you have altered the Diopter adjustment. This has happened several times now and I am wondering whether this is a fault with my pair or whether I just have to be more carefull when I focus. Roger

You could contact the dealer and compare with other samples and see if it is faulty? FWIW I have never had that problem on mine.

Leif

[Swissboy]

Last month I bought a pair of Zeiss Victory 8x42 to replace my Zeizz 8x56. Whilst these bins are excellent I have noticed a very annoying problem with the focusing knob in that if you are not carefull it tends to lift and before you realise it you have altered the Diopter adjustment. This has happened several times now and I am wondering whether this is a fault with my pair or whether I just have to be more carefull when I focus. Roger

This has been a problem with my Victory I. I thought Zeiss had eliminated it for the new model. It's a shame they did not come up with a better solution. I never ever have had such a problem with the Leica Trinovid. And Leica (also in the Ultravids) has that convenient dial for immediate checking. In the Zeiss, one always has to lift the focus knob to check the setting.

[Rich N]

I've not had the problem with my Zeiss 10x42 FL.

The thread title mentions 8x42 FL but in the binocular is called a Victory. Is the binocular in question an FL?

Rich

[Curtis Croulet]

My own post is about the 8x42 T* FL, as it is designated on a small nameplate on the ventral side of the bin. After some wavering on the name of this product, the US distributor has apparently settled on "Victory FL" in their latest advertising. I generally love the bin, but the cited problem with the focus/diopter knob is an occasional nuisance.

[devon.birder]

I've not had the problem with my Zeiss 10x42 FL.

The thread title mentions 8x42 FL but in the binocular is called a Victory. Is the binocular in question an FL?

Rich

The model is 8x42 T FL. On the instruction book it also says Fernglaser Victory.
I hope I bought the new model!!!. Roger

[Leif]

The model is 8x42 T FL. On the instruction book it also says Fernglaser Victory.
I hope I bought the new model!!!. Roger

Roger: If it is loose, then I would not be happy given the price, so maybe a word with Zeiss is in order? If it is marked Fl then it is the new model.

Leif

[devon.birder]

Roger: If it is loose, then I would not be happy given the price, so maybe a word with Zeiss is in order? If it is marked Fl then it is the new model.

Leif

Hi Leif. I have already received a message from Zeiss suggesting that I send them back so that their Engineer can check them out, they obviously monitor Bird Forums. They also suggest that I bring them to the Bird Fair in August when their Engineer will be present. I do not think that anything can be done it is how they are designed that is at fault, I will just have to make sure when focusing that I do not raise the focus knob but it is an irritation all the same. Apart from that they are excellent bins. Roger

[Swissboy]

I've not had the problem with my Zeiss 10x42 FL.
The thread title mentions 8x42 FL but in the binocular is called a Victory. Is the binocular in question an FL?
Rich

The older Victory models have a 40 mm lens opening, the FLs have 42. So it's easy to tell.

Nevertheless, I wonder why Zeiss decided to keep the Victory name at this point. Just FL would have been clearer, and there would not have been this link to the not so optimal predecessors. But this is likely to be only a temporary problem. So I guess Zeiss is (rightfully) assuming that a catchy name can be kept for the future.

[photo1]

I tried a pair in my local bino store and they had the same problem. I accidentally lifted the diopter adjustment more than once trying them out.

[Curtis Croulet]

Hi Leif. I have already received a message from Zeiss suggesting that I send them back so that their Engineer can check them out, they obviously monitor Bird Forums.

Sounds like the UK office monitors Bird Forum, whereas the US office does not. The knob problem sounds like a design bug. Funny -- you'd think this problem would have been discovered long ago, considering that it dates back to the original Victory line.

[Otto McDiesel]

Sounds like the UK office monitors Bird Forum, whereas the US office does not. The knob problem sounds like a design bug. Funny -- you'd think this problem would have been discovered long ago, considering that it dates back to the original Victory line.
Would a piece of sticky tape fix that?

[devon.birder]

Would a piece of sticky tape fix that?

It may do but having just spent £900+ I am not inclined to correct a fault in the design by using sticky tape. Would you?. Roger

[Otto McDiesel]

It may do but having just spent £900+ I am not inclined to correct a fault in the design by using sticky tape. Would you?. Roger

Uhh...probably not. I would be pi :C ed. But if you otherwise like the binoculars...
Can you retun them and get a Leica or Svaro?
Maybe you can sell them and replace them with Leica. You might loose $$$ in this deal.

There may be a behavioral correction to that problem though. It may take a while to get used to, but how about checking that focus all the time? Before you know it will become an automatic subconsient move that you do with a finger from time to time. I have never handled the new Zeiss binoiculars, but maybe a finger push and/or check move may be ok. I hunt sometimes, or shoot targets, and my finger just goes and checks the safety on the firearm all the time, without me even thinking about it. Similarly, i always keep the muzzle of the firearm pointed towards the sky, but i don't think about this anymore. You get my drift...

This discussion really narrows my choice down. I will buy a pair this year (hopefully soon, as i will start surveying sparrows in New Mexico in April), and i was thinking of trying 10X42 Zeiss FL, 10x42 Ultravid, 10x42 EL, and 8.5x42 EL. I guess Zeiss is out now.
What in the world is going on at Zeiss? You would think that those suckers designing the binoculars would actually use them and try them!

[Ben O]

This discussion really narrows my choice down. I will buy a pair this year (hopefully soon, as i will start surveying sparrows in New Mexico in April), and i was thinking of trying 10X42 Zeiss FL, 10x42 Ultravid, 10x42 EL, and 8.5x42 EL. I guess Zeiss is out now.
What in the world is going on at Zeiss? You would think that those suckers designing the binoculars would actually use them and try them!

I find it surprising that you should dismiss these binos so easily but I find it even more amazing that you should come down so hard on Zeiss when every bino has it's own 'flaw' of some description.

Personally, I have had the focus wheel cover lift up 3 times in several months of extensive use but other than a mild curse at th time, it hasn't bothered me at all. I have a friend whose Swaro EL cover lifts regularly but the knob just free-wheels rather than changes the dioptre setting.

Ben

[Leif]

Uhh...probably not. I would be pi :C ed. But if you otherwise like the binoculars...
Can you retun them and get a Leica or Svaro?
Maybe you can sell them and replace them with Leica. You might loose $$$ in this deal.

There may be a behavioral correction to that problem though. It may take a while to get used to, but how about checking that focus all the time? Before you know it will become an automatic subconsient move that you do with a finger from time to time. I have never handled the new Zeiss binoiculars, but maybe a finger push and/or check move may be ok. I hunt sometimes, or shoot targets, and my finger just goes and checks the safety on the firearm all the time, without me even thinking about it. Similarly, i always keep the muzzle of the firearm pointed towards the sky, but i don't think about this anymore. You get my drift...

This discussion really narrows my choice down. I will buy a pair this year (hopefully soon, as i will start surveying sparrows in New Mexico in April), and i was thinking of trying 10X42 Zeiss FL, 10x42 Ultravid, 10x42 EL, and 8.5x42 EL. I guess Zeiss is out now.
What in the world is going on at Zeiss? You would think that those suckers designing the binoculars would actually use them and try them!

Then you had better avoid Nikon, Leica and Swarovski too because of reports from owners on BF. Oh yes, and Swift. And Bushnell. Better avoid them all to be safe.

The safest way to buy any binocular is from a shop and examine the one you intend to buy before you hand over the readies to the smiling sales people.

Leif

[Pileatus]

Then you had better avoid Nikon, Leica and Swarovski too because of reports from owners on BF. Oh yes, and Swift. And Bushnell. Better avoid them all to be safe.

The safest way to buy any binocular is from a shop and examine the one you intend to buy before you hand over the readies to the smiling sales people.

Leif

Leif,

I disagree with your generalizations. My Ultravid started with a somewhat stiff focus that is now very comfortable to use. That was a break-in issue only. The mechanics of the Ultravid (diopter setting, IPD setting, eyecup design and manipulation) perform flawlessly. The strap and strap placement on the bin are extremely well designed and comfortable to use. In short, it's mechanically perfect IMO.

If you recall, I commented on the Zeiss diopter problem during the original discussion, but after the onslaught I received I refused to discuss it further. Apparently, my initial observations were well founded.

John

[devon.birder]

Then you had better avoid Nikon, Leica and Swarovski too because of reports from owners on BF. Oh yes, and Swift. And Bushnell. Better avoid them all to be safe.

The safest way to buy any binocular is from a shop and examine the one you intend to buy before you hand over the readies to the smiling sales people.

Leif

I tried the 10x42 Zeiss at Cley Spy and before I bought the 8x42 Zeiss the next day at RSPB shop at Titchwell I spent sometime looking at the Redpolls there. It was not until I had returned to Devon and was out birding that I suddenly found that I could not focus the bins. As you say now that I know the problem I will be extra carefull when I turn the focus wheel and hopefully it will not be too much of a problem. Roger

[Ben O]

If you recall, I commented on the Zeiss diopter problem during the original discussion, but after the onslaught I received I refused to discuss it further. Apparently, my initial observations were well founded.

John

I well remember your review of the FL and you mentioned the focus wheel 'poor dioptre design and focus too fast' but I don't remember you elaborating on that, even after Leif had asked you for some detail on the nature of the diopter problem. Maybe it's on another thread.

It doesn't seem like a widespread problem, though I can imagine it would be worse for those who regularly use the carrying case. In fact I can't
easily replicate it at the moment with two fingers on the focus knob and using quite a bit of force.

Ben

[Leif]

Leif,

I disagree with your generalizations. My Ultravid started with a somewhat stiff focus that is now very comfortable to use. That was a break-in issue only. The mechanics of the Ultravid (diopter setting, IPD setting, eyecup design and manipulation) perform flawlessly. The strap and strap placement on the bin are extremely well designed and comfortable to use. In short, it's mechanically perfect IMO.

If you recall, I commented on the Zeiss diopter problem during the original discussion, but after the onslaught I received I refused to discuss it further. Apparently, my initial observations were well founded.

John

John. I don't understand the point you are making. Are you saying that because your sample of a binocular is perfect, then all samples from that manufacturer are perfect? Or that because you think the ergonomics are perfect, then everyone will think that they are perfect?

Regarding your review, I thought that it was grossly biased and so did numerous other people. I could have understood if you had disliked one or maybe two things. But according to you the 8x42 FL has poor DOF, a poor image with a very narrow sweet spot, poor build and ergonomics, a poor focus and a poor diopter. The only thing that you did not pan was the brightness presumably because you could not since Zeiss publish objective figures to prove high transmission. The irony is that recently we have someone (Justin) saying they he nearly did not try the FL due to the supposedly poor quality, only to find to his surprise that the criticisms were not valid, and he liked it so much that he bought one!!!

The fact that you gush over the Leica suggests that you are not by nature a hyper-critical person though you do seem to like to add negative comments on the Zeiss FL whenever possible.

On BF there have been mentions of rachety focus on many Leica Ultravids and Trinovids (all those I have tried were excellent) and several reports of Leica scopes (and I own one) breaking in two. I don't conclude that Leica mechanics are crap. My guess is that Leica mechanics are excellent but maybe one or two samples are not quite so good. Maybe 99.9% are perfect, who knows. Or maybe user abuse causes problem? Who knows. I could also mention problems with Nikon (weak eye tubes, armour wearing, faulty focus) and Swarovski (quite a few leaks including 2 or 3 owned by the same person leaking, a few complaints about a ratchety focus) and Swift Audubons (several accounts of leaking). We tend to hear about problems on BF.

Anyway, it seems that Zeiss have offered to check out the binocular to see if there is a fault/issue.

Leif

[Bill Atwood]

Unfortunately my FLs have a touch of this problem also. However it doesn't happen often.

I'm totally with Leif on this one.

[Curtis Croulet]

Then you had better avoid Nikon, Leica and Swarovski too because of reports from owners on BF. Oh yes, and Swift. And Bushnell. Better avoid them all to be safe.

The safest way to buy any binocular is from a shop and examine the one you intend to buy before you hand over the readies to the smiling sales people.

Leif

I hesitated to post my own experience, because I knew it would provide further incentive for someone to go off the deep end on this issue. Each person will have different criteria for what's important to them. If the cited focus/diopter knob issue is a show-stopper for Mr. McDiesel, then both he and Zeiss will probably be happier if he looks elsewhere. For me, knowing what I know now, I would emphatically buy an FL again.
-----
Edited to add:

Just after posting the preceding, I see a message complaining about debris and oil droplets inside a Leica Ultravid, and it's the fourth one the guy tried.

[henry link]

My FL's have never done this in six months of use. Changing the knob to the diopter setting position on this pair takes enough force so that I don't think it's possible to do it inadvertently. I tried to find a way to do it "accidently" today without success.

[Pileatus]

John. I don't understand the point you are making. Are you saying that because your sample of a binocular is perfect, then all samples from that manufacturer are perfect? Or that because you think the ergonomics are perfect, then everyone will think that they are perfect?

Regarding your review, I thought that it was grossly biased and so did numerous other people. I could have understood if you had disliked one or maybe two things. But according to you the 8x42 FL has poor DOF, a poor image with a very narrow sweet spot, poor build and ergonomics, a poor focus and a poor diopter. The only thing that you did not pan was the brightness presumably because you could not since Zeiss publish objective figures to prove high transmission. The irony is that recently we have someone (Justin) saying they he nearly did not try the FL due to the supposedly poor quality, only to find to his surprise that the criticisms were not valid, and he liked it so much that he bought one!!!

The fact that you gush over the Leica suggests that you are not by nature a hyper-critical person though you do seem to like to add negative comments on the Zeiss FL whenever possible.

On BF there have been mentions of rachety focus on many Leica Ultravids and Trinovids (all those I have tried were excellent) and several reports of Leica scopes (and I own one) breaking in two. I don't conclude that Leica mechanics are crap. My guess is that Leica mechanics are excellent but maybe one or two samples are not quite so good. Maybe 99.9% are perfect, who knows. Or maybe user abuse causes problem? Who knows. I could also mention problems with Nikon (weak eye tubes, armour wearing, faulty focus) and Swarovski (quite a few leaks including 2 or 3 owned by the same person leaking, a few complaints about a ratchety focus) and Swift Audubons (several accounts of leaking). We tend to hear about problems on BF.

Anyway, it seems that Zeiss have offered to check out the binocular to see if there is a fault/issue.

Leif


Leif,

I always said the FL had a marvelous centerfield image and that I personally didn't care for the off-center sharpness. The DOF was probably related to the fast focus, which, again, I have never liked. I said the same thing about the Nikon LX/HG fast focus. The FL's were a little bulky for me and they just didn't feel as rugged as others. That may have been due to a combination of personal likes/dislikes...some bins just feel better to me than others.

Every observation of mine has been repeated by others on this forum, so what's your point? Some, in fact, were far less forgiving than I in their critiques. People are complaining about a diopter problem I noticed, but refused to elaborate on because I was tired of the reactionary noise level.

The important thing to remember is that every BF comment is just opinion based on personal preferences. Many have praised the FL as the best bin ever made and I have never once challenged their opinion. To do so would be pure silliness, even though I know the SE is the best bin ever made! If you like something (or someone), who am I to tell you you’re wrong? The converse is also true.

The bottom line is that no diopter mechanism should unexpectedly open and, if it does, it's a real problem that must be addressed. If multiple people report the same problem, I assume it's either a design issue or a manufacturing fault. Thankfully, BF offers everyone the opportunity to share information and, hopefully, get problems resolved expeditiously. Unfortunately, some are just looking for affirmation and are hostile to contrary opinion. Personally, I'm convinced that eyeball variations, coupled with individual perceptions are responsible for 99% of the differences so hotly debated on this forum.

For the record, I don’t gush and here’s proof:

The tethers designed to hold the objective covers on my Ultravid were an unmitigated disaster. They broke within a day and I was left holding a $1200 bin, minus those cute little drop-down covers. Aghast at this development, I sank into a deep, remorseful depression. Was this an engineering failure, a sampling error, or just bad luck? After I regained my senses, I considered my options, determined to outwit the best Leica engineer. I selected the sharpest scissor I could find and, with surgical precision, removed the tethers from the rubber objective covers. It was a bold, daring move, but I’m a bold, daring kind of person. As the tension in the room subsided, I slipped the liberated covers on to the objectives, carefully, one at a time. I removed them and quickly put them back on just to be certain. They fit snug and secure, offering the perfect level of lens protection one needs when a bin is stored in its case or, for those rare moments in the field when objective lens protection is warranted. It was a harrowing, though worthy experiment, considering I beat Leica at its own game! I now possessed fully functional objective covers, a lighter weight and better-balanced field bin (sans attached covers), and something to put it in my pocket. I suppose I'm making far too much of this objective cover issue, considering the superbly crafted Ultravid binocular is, as one would expect, far more enjoyable with the covers removed. Then again, that’s just my opinion.

John

[Pileatus]

I hesitated to post my own experience, because I knew it would provide further incentive for someone to go off the deep end on this issue. Each person will have different criteria for what's important to them. If the cited focus/diopter knob issue is a show-stopper for Mr. McDiesel, then both he and Zeiss will probably be happier if he looks elsewhere. For me, knowing what I know now, I would emphatically buy an FL again.
-----
Edited to add:

Just after posting the preceding, I see a message complaining about debris and oil droplets inside a Leica Ultravid, and it's the fourth one the guy tried.

Curtis,

I urge you to never feel hesitant about speaking your mind. You and I both agree that personal preferences always win the day for the individual and individual preferences vary. Differences make life exciting, robust, and worthwhile. Cloned thinking is, as history has repeatedly proved, disastrous.

I read the oily Leica post you mentioned and it sounds crazy to me, but then crazy things happen!

Based primarily on your comments, I'd love to use an FL in the field for a few days to see how it performed for me in ACTUAL use. I may be opinionated, but I'm not stupid. When candid people, such as you, tell me they truly like something, I listen and take note.

John

[moman]

Last month I bought a pair of Zeiss Victory 8x42 to replace my Zeizz 8x56. Whilst these bins are excellent I have noticed a very annoying problem with the focusing knob in that if you are not carefull it tends to lift and before you realise it you have altered the Diopter adjustment. This has happened several times now and I am wondering whether this is a fault with my pair or whether I just have to be more carefull when I focus. Roger

Hi Devon,
I had the same problem with a pair of 7x42 Victory FL's. Zeiss said to send them in for repair. A week or so later I contacted them and they said they were being sent to Germany for repair (because of the newness of the model, repair could not be made in the U.S.). I asked if they could just send me a new pair, so I don't have to wait. Without the slightest hesitation they agreed. I received my new pair which was absolutely perfect.
Zeiss has about the best warranty going and seem determined to please the customer.

[Curtis Croulet]

Moman: Thanks for the good report on Zeiss service.

[Grousemore]

What in the world is going on at Zeiss? You would think that those suckers designing the binoculars would actually use them and try them!
The only reason for responding to such a stupid comment, is to ensure that newcomers to Birdforum are not disadvantaged from trying Zeiss binoculars as a consequence.
I HAVE tried the new FL's, extensively for many months and I cannot recommend them highly enough for the purpose of looking at birds.

[pduxon]

As Leif as said every bin has its own strong point and its weaknesses. This is of course the reason why the majority of responders to optics posts respond with "buy before you try" because something that to me is a minor inconvenience is to someone else a serious flaw and vice versa.

There is no such thing as the best there is only the best for you.

To their credit Zeiss are looking at the matter.

[helenol]

My FL's have never done this in six months of use.
I've also had my 8x42FL's for going on six months, without a problem. I'd still highly recommend them.

[devon.birder]

Hi Devon,
I had the same problem with a pair of 7x42 Victory FF's. Zeiss said to send them in for repair. A week or so later I contacted them and they said they were being sent to Germany for repair (because of the newness of the model, repair could not be made in the U.S.). I asked if they could just send me a new pair, so I don't have to wait. Without the slightest hesitation they agreed. I received my new pair which was absolutely perfect.
Zeiss has about the best warranty going and seem determined to please the customer.

Perhaps I will wait a few more weeks to see how I get on and think about taking up the offer I received from Zeiss after I made my original post a few days ago. Roger

[CDK]

Can you retun them and get a Leica or Svaro?
Maybe you can sell them and replace them with Leica. You might loose $$$ in this deal.
This discussion really narrows my choice down. I will buy a pair this year (hopefully soon, as i will start surveying sparrows in New Mexico in April), and i was thinking of trying 10X42 Zeiss FL, 10x42 Ultravid, 10x42 EL, and 8.5x42 EL. I guess Zeiss is out now.
What in the world is going on at Zeiss? You would think that those suckers designing the binoculars would actually use them and try them!

Perhaps you should get a copy of UK Birdwatching Magazine (March 2005 edition), there is a review on the 8x32 Ultravid. Poor focus, jerky movement, appears to get worse over time.
So perhaps it is not a good idea to buy the Leica. As everyone says, try them for yourself, it is good to hear other opinions, but the bottom line is, its your money test all binoculars with an open mind and choose the one that suits you (it may be a Leica, swarovski, Nikon, Zeiss).

I think, Leif was pointing out that if you rely entirely on the various binocular comments made on birdforum, then you would not buy anything.

[Leif]

I think, Leif was pointing out that if you rely entirely on the various binocular comments made on birdforum, then you would not buy anything.

Thanks. That is indeed the point I was trying to make. Leif

[Leif]

Leif,

I always said the FL had a marvelous centerfield image and that I personally didn't care for the off-center sharpness. The DOF was probably related to the fast focus, which, again, I have never liked. I said the same thing about the Nikon LX/HG fast focus. The FL's were a little bulky for me and they just didn't feel as rugged as others. That may have been due to a combination of personal likes/dislikes...some bins just feel better to me than others.

Every observation of mine has been repeated by others on this forum, so what's your point? Some, in fact, were far less forgiving than I in their critiques. People are complaining about a diopter problem I noticed, but refused to elaborate on because I was tired of the reactionary noise level.

The important thing to remember is that every BF comment is just opinion based on personal preferences. Many have praised the FL as the best bin ever made and I have never once challenged their opinion. To do so would be pure silliness, even though I know the SE is the best bin ever made! If you like something (or someone), who am I to tell you you’re wrong? The converse is also true.

The bottom line is that no diopter mechanism should unexpectedly open and, if it does, it's a real problem that must be addressed. If multiple people report the same problem, I assume it's either a design issue or a manufacturing fault. Thankfully, BF offers everyone the opportunity to share information and, hopefully, get problems resolved expeditiously. Unfortunately, some are just looking for affirmation and are hostile to contrary opinion. Personally, I'm convinced that eyeball variations, coupled with individual perceptions are responsible for 99% of the differences so hotly debated on this forum.

For the record, I don’t gush and here’s proof:

The tethers designed to hold the objective covers on my Ultravid were an unmitigated disaster. They broke within a day and I was left holding a $1200 bin, minus those cute little drop-down covers. Aghast at this development, I sank into a deep, remorseful depression. Was this an engineering failure, a sampling error, or just bad luck? After I regained my senses, I considered my options, determined to outwit the best Leica engineer. I selected the sharpest scissor I could find and, with surgical precision, removed the tethers from the rubber objective covers. It was a bold, daring move, but I’m a bold, daring kind of person. As the tension in the room subsided, I slipped the liberated covers on to the objectives, carefully, one at a time. I removed them and quickly put them back on just to be certain. They fit snug and secure, offering the perfect level of lens protection one needs when a bin is stored in its case or, for those rare moments in the field when objective lens protection is warranted. It was a harrowing, though worthy experiment, considering I beat Leica at its own game! I now possessed fully functional objective covers, a lighter weight and better-balanced field bin (sans attached covers), and something to put it in my pocket. I suppose I'm making far too much of this objective cover issue, considering the superbly crafted Ultravid binocular is, as one would expect, far more enjoyable with the covers removed. Then again, that’s just my opinion.

John

John: Firstly, your review was more critical than any other I have ever seen including describing the image as "unacceptable", and frequent use of the term "poor".

Secondly you often add negative comments to FL threads but I have never seen you do likewise to Leica/Swaro/Nikon threads. There are numerous threads on the Leica jerky focus (which is probably a rare problem) and you do not add a comment along the lines of "that is unacceptable". There have been many postings on leaking Swarovskis and yet again I have never seen you post a negative remark.

I have never seen you post a negative remark on a Leica except in your most recent posting. How odd that part of your binocular fails and you do not mention it. If that had been an FL, you would have thrashing your poor old keyboard to within an inch of its life in your haste to get a negative post on BF.

I have said that if Devon.Birder has a defective unit, then he should have it fixed. Zeiss have offered to do the decent thing (as would Leica et al IMO).

Leif

[Otto McDiesel]

[QUOTE=Ben O]I find it surprising that you should dismiss these binos so easily
If you would wait 20 years for a pair of binoculars, work very hard to save the cash, and have very little of it, you wouldn't want to be disappointed about anything either.
At how much those binoculars cost, they should be PERFECT.

Oh, and not all of us are Sunday-after-church-air-conditioned-SUV-guided-tour-everything-organized-lodge-birdwatchers. Imagine trekking the Atlas Mountains at +44 C by day and -6 C at night for 12 days to see some bird (and to do that you can only carry food for 6 days and water for 10 days, because you can’t carry more than that on your back while climbing, and to go there you need to do it in a pair of tennis shoes, because you can't afford the boots), and then miss the bird because the focus did not work properly. How would you feel?

[Andrew Rowlands]

At how much those binoculars cost, they should be PERFECT.

There's always the human error factor to bring into the equation, Otto; one guy filling a hopper with the wrong part number washer or seal; a milling machine that drifts out by a thou or so during the course of a production run of many thousands of components.

There are other items that cost much more than this and they aren't perfect - perfection doesn't exist.

I'm sure, as others have said, that Zeiss (or Leica, Swaro, etc.) will do the right thing in this case.

If the view through these (or any other top bino) is as good as some users profess, I'd be quite happy to use a piece of tape to ensure a decade or so of enjoyment! (I've used tape on my bino's for some twenty years ;) ).

Cheers,

Andy.

[Ben O]

[QUOTE=Ben O]
If you would wait 20 years for a pair of binoculars, work very hard to save the cash, and have very little of it, you wouldn't want to be disappointed about anything either.
At how much those binoculars cost, they should be PERFECT.

Unless you have a more realistic approach, I fear you could be waiting at least another 20yrs. Use your eyes and common sense when purchasing, you won't be disappointed. To write-off a model or manufacturer so easily due to a comment or two on the internet still seems most bizarre to myself.

Ben

[Tim Allwood]

quite a few people seem to have experienced a 'problem' with these bins

stick to the old classic dialyts! 7 x 42

never had a problem ever, deserts, jungles, mountains, marshes

if it aint broke....

Tim

[Otto McDiesel]

Unless you have a more realistic approach, I fear you could be waiting at least another 20yrs. Use your eyes and common sense when purchasing, you won't be disappointed. To write-off a model or manufacturer so easily due to a comment or two on the internet still seems most bizarre to myself.

Ben

I just came back from a store where i tried the 10x42 models of Zeiss FL, Leica Ultravid, and Swaro EL. They let me take the binoculars outside the store, and i compared them for 1/2 hour.
To me, the Zeiss FL offered the best image of the three, by a visible but non-descript margin. On the sample that i tried the focus knob seemed ok. It would not bother me to use sticky tape either, because the view was outstanding.
I would not hesitate to buy them, but i will also consider warranties for all three models. A pair that performs 0.01 % less optically but offers better warranty, may be the winner. We'll see.

[Andrew Rowlands]

quite a few people seem to have experienced a 'problem' with these bins

stick to the old classic dialyts! 7 x 42

never had a problem ever, deserts, jungles, mountains, marshes

if it aint broke....

Tim

Like most things, Tim, once they've been in production for a while they 'mature'!

I wonder how many of today's crop of 'super-bino's' will achieve the production longevity of the Dialyts?

I'd have a pair of those 7x42's anytime.

Andy.

[Ben O]

quite a few people seem to have experienced a 'problem' with these bins
Tim

'quite a few', seems slightly ott. Not sure many would even go as far as calling it a 'problem'.

A quick search of the bino forums will show all sorts of gripes with every bino. If your binos were released today, I'd put money on it that there would be a stream of niggles from the birdforum members.

Ben

[AUDIE]

Had my 8x42s fls for a few months now,could not be more pleased with them. Changed from 7x42 Dialyt,still one of the finest birding binoculars.

[Pileatus]

John: Firstly, your review was more critical than any other I have ever seen including describing the image as "unacceptable", and frequent use of the term "poor".

Secondly you often add negative comments to FL threads but I have never seen you do likewise to Leica/Swaro/Nikon threads. There are numerous threads on the Leica jerky focus (which is probably a rare problem) and you do not add a comment along the lines of "that is unacceptable". There have been many postings on leaking Swarovskis and yet again I have never seen you post a negative remark.

I have never seen you post a negative remark on a Leica except in your most recent posting. How odd that part of your binocular fails and you do not mention it. If that had been an FL, you would have thrashing your poor old keyboard to within an inch of its life in your haste to get a negative post on BF.

I have said that if Devon.Birder has a defective unit, then he should have it fixed. Zeiss have offered to do the decent thing (as would Leica et al IMO).

Leif

Leif,

I cannot begin to comprehend your unrelenting obsession with my personal opinions. What amazes me most is your fixation on the FL. Obviously, the FL is a highly regarded bin and my opinion has no value in that discussion since I do not use one on a regular basis. Owners recently noted the diopter problem, not me. If it’s any consolation, I recently purchased Zeiss lenses for my glasses!

My last post contained a bit of humor that apparently went unnoticed. If anyone thinks I was complaining, forget it. I was happy the tether broke because it led me to a better solution! Leica didn’t plan it that way, but it worked out just fine. If the diopter on my Ultravid opens unexpectedly, I’ll be the first to let you know. I would consider that a very serious issue. As it is, the Ultravid/Trinovid diopter adjustment is the best I’ve seen or can imagine.

I suggest all owners do two things: (1) tell us how much you enjoy birds, colors, feather details, etc. as you use your bin and (2) any problems you encounter during use so that others may benefit from your experience.

John

[Swissboy]

Edited to add:
Just after posting the preceding, I see a message complaining about debris and oil droplets inside a Leica Ultravid, and it's the fourth one the guy tried.

Curtis, that post did NOT concern Ultravids! And it sounds like a strange post anyway. Why would a person keep buying the same brand (he did not merely try them) if it were so bad?

[Leif]

Curtis, that post did NOT concern Ultravids! And it sounds like a strange post anyway. Why would a person keep buying the same brand (he did not merely try them) if it were so bad?

Robert: Yes, sounds dubious, or he is a glutton for punishment. Leif

[Leif]

Leif,

I cannot begin to comprehend your unrelenting obsession with my personal opinions. What amazes me most is your fixation on the FL. Obviously, the FL is a highly regarded bin and my opinion has no value in that discussion since I do not use one on a regular basis. Owners recently noted the diopter problem, not me. If it’s any consolation, I recently purchased Zeiss lenses for my glasses!

[snip]

John

Fixation? How odd. I post on the FL, the SE, the Leica scope (all of which I own) etc.

I was merely wondering why you obsessively criticise one particular instrument, but never criticise others (apart from one recent posting). That's all.

Leif

[kevster43]

Hi Leif,

have you suffered this problem with your pair at all?

[Leif]

Hi Leif,

have you suffered this problem with your pair at all?

Never, though that's not to say that a few people have not had an issue. I reckon it is best to buy from a shop where you can both try and check the item. I bought my Leica scope from the RSPB shop, but they only had the demo in stock. It had slight damage to the bayonet mechanism so I had to cross my fingers and let them order one to be sent to my home. Fortunately it was okay. I suspect that the vast majority are fine. Leif

[Andy Bright]

Fixation? How odd. I post on the FL, the SE, the Leica scope (all of which I own) etc.
Leif
Must admit, no one could accuse Leif of siding with one particular manufacturer, he sings the praises of Leica, Nikon and Zeiss (and undoubtably anyone else with a worthy product)

Andy

[hg1]

I just took my new 8x42 FLs on a three-week birding trip to Norhtern India. I bought then just before getting on the plane and had not used them prior to the trip. First, I should say that in 21 10-hour days of birding and in a variety of habitats from desert to dense forest I have not had the focus problems referred to in this string. Second I should say that originally I was a "doubter" about the new FLs, being somewhat affected by the "sweet spot" criticisms in ana earlier FL string.

How did they perform? Superlatively! I was constantly impressed by the sharpness and ease of use of the new binos. I have owned a few pairs in my 40 years of birding (including zeiss, leica, swarovski, etc.) and these are without a doubt, the single most impressive glasses I have ever used. I cannot criticize them on any grounds.

What about the sweet spot? Well, if I look hard I can see a fall-off in image sharpness away from the ceneter of the field of view and maybe this fall-off is more noticable than in some other binos. However, although this may exist in the testing room, in the field it did not even register (with me, anyway). Perhaps the best aspect of the binos was their ease of use - they handle very naturally and at times seemed to be extensions of my vision, rather than a piece of technology that got in the way of it.

QUOTE=Bill Atwood]Unfortunately my FLs have a touch of this problem also. However it doesn't happen often.

I'm totally with Leif on this one.[/QUOTE]

[Curtis Croulet]

Thank you, Hg1. Back during the "sweet spot" dust-up a few months ago, I questioned the significance of this "fault." Your comments only confirm my own experience: that this issue, if it exists, is of no importance in field use. As to the focus-knob "problem," perhaps those of us who've experienced it handle our bins at times in some way that other birders do not. There are interactions between users and products that can defy the best designers.

[devon.birder]

I met a Birder today that I have not seen for a few months and the first thing he said to me was "I see you have finally changed your Zeiss 8x56". He then said "Do you know about the problem with the focus barrel lifting". He went on to tell me about John F..... who recently bought the same Zeiss bins as me and had experienced the same problem. John is at Dawlish Warren most days and a couple of weeks ago when it was windy he hadn't noticed that the barrel had lifted and he has now got a few grains of sand underneath the barrel. I think the Zeiss bins are great but it is a bit like buying a Ferrari and then having to hold the steering wheel down in case it comes off when you are turning a corner!!!. I tend to use two fingers when focussing now, one to turn the barrel and the other to hold it down. On average during a full days birding I find the barrel lifts at least 3 times but I cannot really see what Zeiss can do about it so it would appear pointless sending them back for examination. Roger

[Pileatus]

I met a Birder today that I have not seen for a few months and the first thing he said to me was "I see you have finally changed your Zeiss 8x56". He then said "Do you know about the problem with the focus barrel lifting". He went on to tell me about John F..... who recently bought the same Zeiss bins as me and had experienced the same problem. John is at Dawlish Warren most days and a couple of weeks ago when it was windy he hadn't noticed that the barrel had lifted and he has now got a few grains of sand underneath the barrel. I think the Zeiss bins are great but it is a bit like buying a Ferrari and then having to hold the steering wheel down in case it comes off when you are turning a corner!!!. I tend to use two fingers when focussing now, one to turn the barrel and the other to hold it down. On average during a full days birding I find the barrel lifts at least 3 times but I cannot really see what Zeiss can do about it so it would appear pointless sending them back for examination. Roger

Roger,

They should fix the problem.

John

[Rich N]

My Zeiss 10x42FL is working just fine. I was using it tonight for astronomy. I was looking at several Messier objects. I could see M104 and this was from hills above Palo Alto, California. Not all that dark an observing site.

I'm excited about the Zeiss 8x32FL. I think it will be my next binocular purchase.

Rich

[Andrew Rowlands]

... but I cannot really see what Zeiss can do about it so it would appear pointless sending them back for examination. Roger

Perhaps you should let Zeiss judge whether they can do something or not, Roger. It seems a little unfair to keep complaining about it without giving them the chance to fix them.

If you don't have another pair of bins, perhaps your supplier would loan you a pair if you send them in for service through them? Don't expect to loan another Zeiss though ;).

Cheers,

Andy.

[Ben O]

I met a Birder today that I have not seen for a few months and the first thing he said to me was "I see you have finally changed your Zeiss 8x56". He then said "Do you know about the problem with the focus barrel lifting". He went on to tell me about John F..... who recently bought the same Zeiss bins as me and had experienced the same problem. John is at Dawlish Warren most days and a couple of weeks ago when it was windy he hadn't noticed that the barrel had lifted and he has now got a few grains of sand underneath the barrel. I think the Zeiss bins are great but it is a bit like buying a Ferrari and then having to hold the steering wheel down in case it comes off when you are turning a corner!!!. I tend to use two fingers when focussing now, one to turn the barrel and the other to hold it down. On average during a full days birding I find the barrel lifts at least 3 times but I cannot really see what Zeiss can do about it so it would appear pointless sending them back for examination. Roger

Send them back to Zeiss to have a look at, i would hazzard a guess that they are the best judge as to a repair to your binos. It seems very odd to me that you continue to put up with this inconvenience, it clearly bothers you a great deal, when a likely fix is available, then you can enjoy these binos as much as the rest of us do :bounce:

Ben

[devon.birder]

Send them back to Zeiss to have a look at, i would hazzard a guess that they are the best judge as to a repair to your binos. It seems very odd to me that you continue to put up with this inconvenience, it clearly bothers you a great deal, when a likely fix is available, then you can enjoy these binos as much as the rest of us do :bounce:

Ben

Thanks for that bit of advice Ben. What do you suggest I look through while they are away. I bought my Zeiss from the RSPB shop at Titchwell and I do not propose going to Norfolk just in case they will lend me a pair of inferior bins to use at the start of the migration season. Roger

[Andrew Rowlands]

Thanks for that bit of advice Ben. What do you suggest I look through while they are away. I bought my Zeiss from the RSPB shop at Titchwell and I do not propose going to Norfolk just in case they will lend me a pair of inferior bins to use at the start of the migration season. Roger

From my earlier Post;- "If you don't have another pair of bins, perhaps your supplier would loan you a pair if you send them in for service through them? Don't expect to loan another Zeiss though ;)."

I think your nearest RSPB shop is at Radipole, Roger. Perhaps you ought to contact RSPB Optics direct and see what they can do for you. There's a phone number on their website.

Andy.

[Leif]

Thanks for that bit of advice Ben. What do you suggest I look through while they are away. I bought my Zeiss from the RSPB shop at Titchwell and I do not propose going to Norfolk just in case they will lend me a pair of inferior bins to use at the start of the migration season. Roger

I can understand that it is a right pain for you, but many of us have a second pair of bins for use by visitors/friends or to keep in the car. Warehouse Express do some nice offers such as an 8x30 inverted porro for about £60. Obviously this is not such a good idea if you only use the 'spare pair' while waiting for Zeiss to repair your main pair, and then leave them in a cupboard to rot.

Leif

[pduxon]

A while back I had to send an eyepiece off for repair (not the Leica I might add). The chap at in-focus realising that I was birding in Norfolk and would need the scope apologised that they didn't have a spare zoom but gave me a 32ww to use whilst it was away.

Why not ring the RSPB shop up at Radipole and ask them what they can do? Equally phone up zeiss - they don't need bad publicity do they?

[Sandy Martin]

I bought my Zeiss from the RSPB shop at Titchwell and I do not propose going to Norfolk just in case they will lend me a pair of inferior bins to use at the start of the migration season. Roger

Have you actually contacted Zeiss about your problem? I'd find it very surprising if they didn't offer you help in some way. I also suspect that there would be a Zeiss dealer close to you that could send them off for you.
If you don't ask, you don't get.
Sandy M

[devon.birder]

Have you actually contacted Zeiss about your problem? I'd find it very surprising if they didn't offer you help in some way. I also suspect that there would be a Zeiss dealer close to you that could send them off for you.
If you don't ask, you don't get.
Sandy M

I must make it quite clear to everybody that on the day of my first post I received a Personal Message from Zeiss UK offering to examine my binoculars but I was loathe to risk posting them in case they got damaged.
It was left that I would consider taking them up to the Bird Fair were Zeiss would be present and have the facilities to examine them and try and deal with my problem.
I have today had a further Personal Message from Zeiss UK with the offer of a loan of a pair of Victory bins whilst my bins are being examined.
I think the 8x42 bins are absolutly brilliant and having used Zeiss bins for nearly 20 years I am not in any way anti Zeiss. In my opinion Zeiss could not have done any more than they have to sort out my problem. I will have to "bite the bullet" and part with my 8x42 bins for a short period soon but not until the middle of June when birding is a little lesss hectic.
Roger