DLS Stokes, Bushnell Elites, Leupold Golden Ring

[Zolarcon]

Hi BF,

DLS Stokes, Bushnell Elites, Leupold Golden Ring- the new batch?

Does this bin really need to exist at 900 dollars? Wouldn't most just save 300 or 400 dollars more and get the top notch FL / Ultravid/ HGL. Maybe?

I've heard the Elite is nice, but still not close to the top.

When will we get the reviews for these? Anybody yet?

Carlos

[Bill Atwood]

I imagine we will see some reviews after they become available on the market and some folks who are prone to review bins get a chance to do so.

[Pinewood]

The DLS Stokes are marketed by Vortex, at the same address as Eagle Optics. Will these binocular be anything more than a superior house brand from Eagle?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[ranburr]

I think that the Bushnells and the Gold rings will sell. Both companies have loyal followers in all the outdoor activities that require optics. I really think that the Gold Ring will take off like gang busters with the hunting crowd. Their no hassle lifetime warranty goes far with hunters who are often quite rough with optics.

ranburr

[Zolarcon]

The Vortex DLS has a "no-hassle" warranty as well.

I have done a few side-by-side tests with the new Elite and the DLS, but I won't comment unless the moderators feel it is appropriate for me to do so. Plus, who would believe me, right?

I have not had a chance to look at the new Leupold yet.

Mike McDowell
http://www.birddigiscoping.com/

PLEASE POST YOUR COMMENTS AND FINDINGS. THAT IS WHAT BF IS ABOUT.

Carlos

[ranburr]

All I heard about at the SHOT show was how great the Bushys are.

ranburr

[Andrew Rowlands]

I have done a few side-by-side tests with the new Elite and the DLS, but I won't comment unless the moderators feel it is appropriate for me to do so.

Hi Mike,

I don't think we Mods would have a problem with you voicing your opinion ;)

Cheers,

Andy.

[Zolarcon]

Heh. Yeah, right!

This all sounds weird. What is all the fuss about? It seems like everyone is speaking in code, except me?

I know some BF members can be harsh but it's not worth not giving a review on pair bins. Or is it? Explain.

Carlos

[Bill Atwood]

I have done a few side-by-side tests with the new Elite and the DLS, but I won't comment unless the moderators feel it is appropriate for me to do so. Plus, who would believe me, right?

Mike McDowell

Now Mike,

You gotta know making that statement here on BF is like teasing a starving dog with a big piece of beef liver!

Of course it doesn't really matter as long as they don't beat the FLs. And we all know that isn't possible...right? Right...? I'm waiting. Please tell me I'm right. Please?

[Alurap]

Now Mike,

You gotta know making that statement here on BF is like teasing a starving dog with a big piece of beef liver!

Of course it doesn't really matter as long as they don't beat the FLs. And we all know that isn't possible...right? Right...? I'm waiting. Please tell me I'm right. Please?

Teasing indeed!
One would think Mike's employer would appreciate him posting personal reviews in a "public" forum.

Tom

[Alurap]

Teasing indeed!
One would think Mike's employer would appreciate him posting personal reviews in a "public" forum.

Tom

Opps, first post and I goofed already (probably will not be my last goof either :h?: ) .. Note the following correction to the above post.

Mike's employer would probably NOT appreciate him posting personal reviews in a public forum.

Tom

[mcdomik]

So, here we go!

I used four binoculars to base this review on in order to establish optical differential and value: Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class 8x42, Pentax DCF SP 8x43, Vortex DLS 8x42 and the Bushnell Elite 8x43. I will also reference a few other binoculars in the context of an impression for comparison, but were not used during my review.

Some of you have probably seen an EO Ranger Platinum Class, probably fewer of the European users on the forum, though. Perhaps there are even more opinions on the Pentax DCF SP on BirdForum. I’ve always found these two binoculars to be pretty similar in terms of optical quality, but have given the nod to the Pentax for slightly better center sharpness and brightness. Ergonomically, I like the Ranger’s lighter weight (I own one). The slightly higher price of the Pentax compared to the Ranger has always seem entirely justifiable to me – it’s a slighter better binocular in my opinion.

Then along came the Vortex DLS and the Bushnell Elite. In my first tripod-mounted side-by-side test on a linear resolution chart at 30 feet using ONLY these two binoculars, I found the DLS produced an overall sharper, crisper image with better color correction (reducing chromatic aberration) and contrast over the Elite. The Elite is certainly good, but it seemed to lack the image “snap” that I observed through the DLS.

I became somewhat curious about the Elite’s optical quality so I added the Pentax DCF SP to my tests. I really wasn’t able to determine much difference between the optics of these two binoculars. To my eyes, the Elite color-tinged a little to the yellow (warmer) compared to the DCF SP, which rendered more accurate color (not cool, but spot-on). Edge sharpness, center sharpness and resolution at distance all seemed comparable – neither one really out-performing the other. Hmm!

I thought the Elite’s focus wheel travel was stiffer in one direction (going to close focus [clockwise]) versus the other. A colleague of mine (a birder) did not initially notice this until I pointed it out. However, she added an unfavorable opinion regarding the position of the diopter near the focus wheel because she uses two fingers to focus. The Elite’s design forced her to use one finger making it more difficult to focus. However, I had no problem using one finger, but merely noticed the differential resistance in direction of the focus wheel – not a huge deal. None of the other three tested (DLS, Pentax, EO) have this focus wheel movement differential. Of the four reviewed binoculars, the Pentax focuser had the most resistance. I recognize that some people like this, so it is a very subjective thing to critique.

I don’t want to spend much time on the following point, but in terms of accessories, the case, strap and rainguard included with the Elite are better quality than the ones included with the Pentax. The accessories that come with the DLS are also higher quality than what is generally included with your average mid-priced binocular - quality compliments to the product.

When you consider the price differential between these two binoculars (Pentax versus Bushnell), the choice for the budget-minded user seems clear. However, the ergonomics on the Elite were more pleasing to me than the Pentax. If someone set the two on a table next to me and said, “Let’s go birding,” I would probably grab the Elite over the Pentax, but wouldn’t hesitate to take the DLS over the Elite.

Here are some specifications:

I.P.D. measurements are my own (all 8x models):

EO Ranger – 57.5mm to 73mm
Pentax DCF SP – 58.5 to 74.5mm
Bushnell Elite – 59.5mm to 77.5mm
Vortex DLS – 58.75mm to 76mm

Bushnell Elite:

372 ft./1000 yds.
Eye Relief 19.4 mm
Close Focus 9 ft. (Actually, I got it down to 7.5 feet).
Weight 23 oz. (double-checked, accurate)
Dimensions (HxW) 5.25 x 5.25 in.
Weatherproofing Waterproof/Nitrogen Purged

Vortex DLS:

Field of View 383 ft./1000 yds.
Eye Relief 18 mm
Close Focus 4.5 ft. (accurate).
Weight 26.4 oz. (accurate)
Dimensions (HxW) 5.5 x 4.875 in.
Weatherproofing Waterproof/Nitrogen Purged

I wear eyeglasses and had just a little bit of trouble adjusting the eyecup on the Elite. Generally, I’m pretty happy with about 16mm to 18mm of eye relief. The Elite’s eyecup doesn’t have the multiple click-stops and the 19.4mm was too much for me (I got the kidney-bean shadows with the eyecups all the way down). So I foresee having to tweak the eyecups in the field from time to time. The other three binoculars in this review have multiple click-stops for eye relief – no problem.

If I had to stack these particular binoculars against a high-end model like the Nikon Premier for optical quality alone, the Vortex DLS 8x42 would be first, then the Bushnell Elite & Pentax DCF SP, followed up by the EO Ranger Platinum Class. I know I’ll get no agreement on this forum as to what represents the best high-end binocular, but Mr. Atwood is correct – I would personally pick the Zeiss FL and the Nikon Premier over the DLS on optical quality. In all honesty, I didn’t find the Elite to be significantly any better than the Pentax DCF SP in terms of optics, demonstrating the value the Pentax brings, and perhaps also the EO Ranger.

I think what the Vortex DLS, Bushnell Elite and Leupold Golden Ring will offer to the market is a good thing for birders and other optics enthusiasts. There are many people who just won’t spend $1,700.00 for a high-end binocular. Many people still scoff in the $1,200.00 to $1,400.00 tier for some of the other premium models. I think the question you need to put forth is how close these upper-end ($800.00 to below $1,000.00) binoculars are to the high-end “big guns.” No, they’re not going to be as sharp and they don’t have as wide field of view.

With regard to the DLS, I can honestly say the gap is fairly narrow – it’s there, you should be able to see it, but I believe the price is justifiable for the quality you’ll experience. With regard to the Elite, I personally opine that the gap is just a bit wider from the high-end. How you personally justify the expenditure differential versus product is up to you, but I look forward to using a DLS this spring migration.

My current optics: Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class 8x42, Swarovski SLC 8x30, Swarovski AT80 HD Spotting scope. I’m a bird watcher and employed by Eagle Optics. I was not asked by any employee affiliated with Eagle Optics to write this review. The above opinion is entirely my own based on my direct observations with the products mentioned in this review.

Mike McDowell
Waunakee, WI (US)
www.birddigiscoping.com

[John Traynor]

Mike,

You always do such nice reviews...thanks!

John

[ranburr]

Mike, based on what you posted I think that the Bushy is probably going to be a better hunting bino than a birding bino. And like the Loopy, I think that is probably their real target market. That slight yellow color tinge is probably by design to help big game animals standout in low-light. Also, a somewhat stiff focus wheel is desireable in a hunting bino. The last thing you want is to crawl around on the ground and then have your binos all out of whack because of an overly loose focus wheel. Bushnell has made a big push in quality with the Elite rifle scopes and as I earlier posted, they made a big deal of their new Elite binos at the SHOT Show. Thus I think what we have here is a very good hunting bino that can double duty as a nice birding bino. I think the Stokes DLS was designed right out of the gates as a birding bino. It probably will not be very popular with hunters.

ranburr

[ranburr]

Slightly better resolution is not a good thing if it cannot perform in low-light.

ranburr

[ranburr]

I was basing my statements on what info you provided. No where did you say anything about low-light capabilities. Most pure birding binos are more concerned with true color rendition than they are low-light operations. Being brighter under ideal conditions does not neccesarilly translate into being brighter in low-light conditions. I was merely stating why I thought you saw the yellow tint. I really don't care one way or another, Neither bino is for me. Somehow I think you are really trying to push these binos? Does EO have a financial stake in this deal beyond just stocking and selling the Stokes line?

ranburr

[cfagyal]

Mike,

I think the review you provided was exceptional. It is unfortunate we have people around who will do anything to try to slander someone or make their information out in as negative a light as possible. I can understand your hesitations, and I for one, as a purchaser of the DLS binocs 2 days ago from Eagle Optics, appreciate the information.

[ranburr]

I am assuming that you are attempting to cast me in a bad light here. If so, Your accusations are erroneous. I was merely stating things the way that they appear. Mike, seemed a little thinned skinned and biased. As you can clearly read, I don't care one way or another. But, it should be obvious to anyone that this is an EO product with the Stokes name attached for marketing purposes. I am not even saying that there is anything wrong with that. But, it would be ridiculous to assume that there is not at least the appearance of bias in this review.

ranburr

[Bradley B]

Mike,

Where are the Stokes bins fabricated?

Thanks, Bradley

[ranburr]

Mike, you proved my point entirley. I have never said that there is anything wrong with the Stokes product. The only statements about the binos I made were based on what you observed. I have never seen the Stokes, don't know that I ever will. I have seen the rest. You seem overly sensitive about this subject. Are you the Stokes product line manger? Do you have your own life savings invested in the line? I have never attacked you personally. If anything, you have attempted to attack me. That is ok. Internet "toughies" don't bother me. Have a great day, and toughen up a little.

ranburr

[Robert Ellis]

Now boys, calm down. Let's go over what we've learned here. All binoculars are at the same time the pinnacle of optical design and a pile of steaming feces. The only question one can ask is how much steaming pinnacle one can afford and whose name will be the corn in it.

[mcdomik]

Hi Bradley,

The DLS is being made in Japan.

Mike McDowell
www.birddigiscoping.com

[cfagyal]

Mike, you proved my point entirley. I have never said that there is anything wrong with the Stokes product. The only statements about the binos I made were based on what you observed. I have never seen the Stokes, don't know that I ever will. I have seen the rest. You seem overly sensitive about this subject. Are you the Stokes product line manger? Do you have your own life savings invested in the line? I have never attacked you personally. If anything, you have attempted to attack me. That is ok. Internet "toughies" don't bother me. Have a great day, and toughen up a little.

ranburr
And you have proven yourself a troll. Congratulations. All of your questions and remarks the last several posts have been wholy aimed at inflaming Mike and getting his goat. What is the point of that, other than being a *****?

[ranburr]

How cute. You are obviously another internet toughie. I am not sure why you are commenting, other than to be an a**. I say again, I have never put down the Stokes product. Thus I am not sure where all of this is coming from. As to bias. I have never said that there is any for sure. But, there is always the potential for it when you are reviewing your own product. Is pointiing out the obvious such a major offense? The internet troll thing is a cute come back. I have nothing against EO, I probably would not use Mike a sales person if I needed to buy something else from them. But, I don't fault the company for anything. This is my final comment on this thread.

ranburr

[Bill Atwood]

I have had enough of this crap.

I have dealt with Mike several times in person and on the phone. In fact I would be surprised if anyone else on BF has had more contact with Mike than I have. He has ALWAYS been patient, helpful, informative and open-minded. Sometimes I buy something, other times I'm just doing research. I have never purchased an EO branded optic. I assume EO makes money on EVERY brand they sell.

I have NO reason to believe Mike offers anything other than his honest opinion.

Contrary to the statement in the post immediately above, EO could use 10 more guys like him, although I don't have any complaints about their other sales people. In fact the world would be a better place if every sales outfit had sales people a little more like Mike instead of the pushy ignoramuses that I usually encounter.

Speaking of ignoramuses, I find it interesting that posts coming out of Texas seem are so adamant about bins the poster haven't even seen. These posts have added nothing of value to this thread and aren't worth a bucket of cold spit. In fact, these oblique snipings have probably done nothing but driven off a valuable source of optic info.

[elkcub]

... I have NO reason to believe Mike offers anything other than his honest opinion. ...


Bill,

I believe Mike's review in post #12 was remarkably well done, and with sufficient preamble in the earlier posts to explain his precarious position. So I'd like to compliment him for his straight forward, courageous and diplomatic evaluations — particularly the sensitive way he integrated the Bushnell Elites that I've had real difficulty casting in the right light.

Unfortunately, the rhetoric devolved to baseness, anger flamed, and feelings were hurt. It might be too much to expect apologies at this point, however, it is a wake up call to think carefully before making personal statements. I join you in encouraging Mike to stay the course in the future.

Thanks,
Elkcub

[John Traynor]

This thread has been wonderful advertising for the Stokes, so let's keep things in perspective. I’ve dealt with Mike on several occasions, but who cares what I think. Check out his blog http://www.birddigiscoping.com/blog.html and then head on over to his photo gallery at http://www.birddigiscoping.com/avian.html for some wonderful eye candy.

After you look at Mike’s photos, come back and tell me you want to argue! Seriously, birding and the selection of birding gear should be fun and people like Mike add so much to other’s enjoyment of the hobby.

John

[elkcub]

Absolutely marvelous! Thanks for putting us on to it. -elkcub