Best CP4500 replacement: Canon A95?

[Tannin]

The situation:

I own two Nikon CP4500s, one for digiscoping, the other for macros, landscapes, and as an instant spare.

The main camera has a broken body which can be repaired OK. (It's happened before - costs about $AU180 to fit a new plastic body. They should make them out of metal.) So I've been using the spare for the last few months.

The spare CP4500 has a dead CCD. This is the second time this has happened to this camera - but the first time it was under warranty. It will probably cost quite a lot to repair, and it might be cheaper to just buy a second-hand 4500 instead.

But I could get the repairer to mate the body of the spare camera with the electronics of the main camera. That shouldn't cost much at all. I'd still need a spare camera though.

The options:

Seems to me that it's time to move on out of the Coolpix 4500 world. The 4500 hasn't been manufactured for two years, it's only 4MP, and it has terrible shutter lag. Also, the spare camera has failed in exactly the same way twice in two years - Nikon's fault, not mine. (The main camera problems are my fault, though it is a poor design from the point of view of the robustness of the filter thread.)

What's around? Seems like only two: the Kyocera/Contax range, and the Canons.

The Contax/Kyocera option looks interesting but several factors are against it. They are closing up soon, which makes ongoing spares and so on a question mark. They seem to lack the range of photographic control that the CP4500 has. They are in the 3-4MP range, which seems a bit on the light side by modern standards. They may or may not be available here in Australia. They use some stupid non-standard flash card. (Compact Flash is the standard. Anything else is a poor relation.)

That leaves Canon. The A95 should be readily available, takes standard Compact Flash cards (which I already have), is a modern 5MP unit with decent ability to shoot multiple frames (not as good as the Contax/Kyocera units but much better than the 4500) and offers more rather than less photographic control:

* Nine focus spots as against the 4500's five - and that matters quite a lot if you are trying to focus on a corner rather than an edge. Perching birds tend to be diagonal and if you can't focus on the centre for some reason (as often happens) then you want to be able to focus (say) on the upper right corner where the bird's head is.
* Usuable manual focus. (OK, I'll believe that when I try it, but it can't be worse than the 4500's unusably awkward manual focus system.)
* Any-angle screen. Even better than the 4500's swivel screen.
* Only 3X zoom. Doesn't matter. 3X is enough.

The big question is how do you attach it to the scope? I'll obviously need a new adaptor to replace my Swarovski DCA. Presumably the tilt-up Swarovski Digital Camera Base.

Is the Powershot A95 the best option?

Is there an even better Canon to use? I don't really care about the cost - having a good digiscoping camera is important!

Is the Swarovski Digital Camera Base suitable? I don't understand how it copes with the external zoom movement of the Canon cameras, but if the experts here tell me it works, that's good enough for me.

Oh, and can I get one by yesterday? With both my 4500s broken at the moment, I am very keen to move quickly on this.

[Balego]

I have no answers for you Tannin, but I am going to be watching this thread, as I too am looking into another option besides the Coolpix cameras. I use a 990 with my Nikon ED78, and my husband informed me yesterday that he wants to get me a new camera. I'm not gonna question his offer. I know its because he hears me cursing as I either fight with shutter lag, or because I can't see the image in the lcd screen in normal daylight. I'm also interested in how the Canon attaches to scopes with the external zoom. The digiscoped images from the Canon posted in another thread are pretty impressive!

Bev

[iporali]

Seems to me that it's time to move on out of the Coolpix 4500 world. The 4500 hasn't been manufactured for two years, it's only 4MP, and it has terrible shutter lag. Also, the spare camera has failed in exactly the same way twice in two years - Nikon's fault, not mine. (The main camera problems are my fault, though it is a poor design from the point of view of the robustness of the filter thread.)

What's around? Seems like only two: the Kyocera/Contax range, and the Canons.

The Contax/Kyocera option looks interesting but several factors are against it. They are closing up soon, which makes ongoing spares and so on a question mark. They seem to lack the range of photographic control that the CP4500 has. They are in the 3-4MP range, which seems a bit on the light side by modern standards. They may or may not be available here in Australia. They use some stupid non-standard flash card. (Compact Flash is the standard. Anything else is a poor relation.)

That leaves Canon. The A95 should be readily available, takes standard Compact Flash cards (which I already have), is a modern 5MP unit with decent ability to shoot multiple frames (not as good as the Contax/Kyocera units but much better than the 4500) and offers more rather than less photographic control:

* Nine focus spots as against the 4500's five - and that matters quite a lot if you are trying to focus on a corner rather than an edge. Perching birds tend to be diagonal and if you can't focus on the centre for some reason (as often happens) then you want to be able to focus (say) on the upper right corner where the bird's head is.
* Usuable manual focus. (OK, I'll believe that when I try it, but it can't be worse than the 4500's unusably awkward manual focus system.)
* Any-angle screen. Even better than the 4500's swivel screen.
* Only 3X zoom. Doesn't matter. 3X is enough.

The big question is how do you attach it to the scope? I'll obviously need a new adaptor to replace my Swarovski DCA. Presumably the tilt-up Swarovski Digital Camera Base.

Is the Powershot A95 the best option?

Is there an even better Canon to use? I don't really care about the cost - having a good digiscoping camera is important!

Is the Swarovski Digital Camera Base suitable? I don't understand how it copes with the external zoom movement of the Canon cameras, but if the experts here tell me it works, that's good enough for me.

Oh, and can I get one by yesterday? With both my 4500s broken at the moment, I am very keen to move quickly on this.

Tannin,

I'm starting to sound like a Canon evangelist, but I really think the A95 is a clear improvement over the CP4500 in most important issues: vignetting, shutter lag and focus control. In addition there are some other nice advantages of the A95 like the battery type (AA-NiMH), excellent battery life, larger display, 5Mpix, focus-assist light etc. I have not tried the Contax/Kyocera models, but I surely would miss some manual controls using them - and the battery life seems to be quite limited. The Powershot A series will soon be replaced with a 5XX-series, which is smaller and faster but uses a memory card other than CF.

Re the adapters. You can continue using your DCA adapter, all you need is a filter adapter tube for the camera and a step-down ring (52mm->28mm). This setup turns the camera's external zoom into internal ;). It does not increase vignetting, but with bracket-style supports like the DCB or the Zeiss Quick Adapter you can get the camera even closer to the eyepiece - and these are where the freely moving display really shine. I am not sure about the Swaro DCA/B, but with the Zeiss swing-arm you could easily switch the eyepiece without removing the adapter - and then you could take advantage of the wider field of the 20xSW (which I remember you once asked about).

OK - I don't like all the features of the Canon A-series. The build quality and materials are cheaper than in the CP (eg. plastic tripod threads!). The zooming control is wierd (=not continuous). The normal ISO value is only 50 (actually close to 80). There were some limitations in communication between the computer and the camera (does not work as an external drive?). The A-series does not have the BULB exposure, which is sometimes useful in astrophotography. And, of course, the macro capabilities of the A95 can't compete with the Nikon.

I am not saying that the A95 is the best choice for digiscoping now, but it does offer an improvement in many annoyances of the CP4500. In my brief trials the Sony V-series seem also to work very well in terms of vignetting and focusing speed and they have a huge display, but their exposure controls are more limited.

HTH

Ilkka


ps. I attached an image of the A80 with a filter adapter + step down ring. It fits to any CP4500 accessories.

[clascronlund]

Some comments to Ilkkas reply:
I just got the Canon A95 so i'm quite new on that, but i starting to get a grip on it.
Yes the zoom is “weird” but I don’t se this as a big issue. It’s quite a small step between the steps. I have had no problem attaching my camera to different computers without installing any drivers. Probably a matter of what kind of OS and version you use.
I can’t understand what you mean by “The normal ISO value is only 50”. You have ISO 50, 100, 200 and 400. You have a BULB exposure in manual and Tv mode up to 15 sec. Maybe this is not enough, but it’s there.

There’s I nice feature that allow you to save your custom settings. I also learned a few days ago that you can save the zoom level. So when starting to digiscope you just switch to custom and all your favourite settings are there.

Clas

P.S. I had to test the zoom steps. Theres 7 steps. I took one shot with every step and looked at the exif data. Focal length/35mm equivalent:
8/39, 10/49, 11/54, 14/68, 16/78, 19/92, 23/112. Actually the Focal length is, accourding to Canon, 7.8-23.4 D.S.

[iporali]

Clas,

Thanks for the comments and corrections - I may have confused the BULB thingy between different models (I have borrowed the A75, A80 and A95 from my friends). And I really think what I mentioned as "shortcomings" from the CP4500-user's point of view, are not significant compared to the advantages of the A95.


I can’t understand what you mean by “The normal ISO value is only 50”.

I meant that in digiscoping fast shutter speeds and high ISO sensitivities are an advantage and usually only the lowest ISO setting is noise-free.
I would have imagined that Canon could already produce a camera with native ISO100 (which itself is quite low IMHO), like many other manufacturers.

Ilkka :t:

[Tannin]

That's what I love about Birdforum. Start with a curly question, get fast, helpful answers right away. Thankyou gentlemen! (Especially to you, Ikka.)

Well, I took the bull between the horns today, and bought a Powershot A95. I'll have to wait a few days for the filter adaptor, so for now I'm just tinkering with the camera itself.

Yes, I've given up on the idea of a Swarovski DCB (the big swing-up device), on three grounds:

1: I don't like the way that, apparently, it suction-fits to the body of the scope. That just doesn't sound safe enough for walking around with. (I never take the camera off the scope or fold up the tripod. The key to successful digiscoping is being able to get your first shot off as fast as possible.)

2: I really don't like the idea of taking off the sighting ring. That thing is the key to rapid aquisition of the bird.

3: At around AU$700, it would cost more than the camera! I don't mind spending whatever it takes to get the best, but that's just silly. I could use that money to buy a spare camera, or a new head, or half a carbon fibre tripod.

The next question is do I already have the right size threads on the Swarovski DCA adaptor (the littlle barrel-type one I already use for the Coolpix) to fit onto the Canon adaptor? The Canon one is 52mm. Have to wait and see, I guess. And maybe have to hunt high and low for the extra darn adaptor bits if it's one of the other two sizes!

I'll try to find some time to get to know the camera and (if it seems sensible) start another thread with what I've learned.

[Tannin]

Hey! Great news! I Just went to look at the adaptor (which still had the failed Nikon camera on it) and the Nikon is working again! I have no idea why, it was dead as a doornail on Monday afternon.

But it's still time I moved on from the Coolpix generation, so my plan stays the same. Just not quite so much hurry now. And I can use it this weekend while I wait for the Canon lens thread to arrive.

[iporali]

The next question is do I already have the right size threads on the Swarovski DCA adaptor (the littlle barrel-type one I already use for the Coolpix) to fit onto the Canon adaptor? The Canon one is 52mm. Have to wait and see, I guess. And maybe have to hunt high and low for the extra darn adaptor bits if it's one of the other two sizes.
Your DCA-barrel has 28mm outer threads. Now you have two options for (maybe more?) Canon adapter-tubes that attach to the bayonet of the camera body: 52mm, which accepts normal filters from the SLRs - and a 37mm model, which does not block the optical finder (or the flash) and should not even limit the field-of-view. For digiscoping purposes you can use either (see eg. http://www.lensmateonline.com/A80adapter.htm). In addition to this you need a step-down ring (outer 52mm -> inner 28mm or 37->28mm), which are not *very* common but surely available from various sources (eg. http://www.heliopan.de/startpre.html).

Good luck,

Ilkka

[Tannin]

Gahhh ....

I should be better organised. I just spent ~ an hour looking for the other two step-down rings that came with my Swarovski adaptor. I've been using the 28mm one for the Coolpix, but it came with 3: 28mm and two others. I found one of them: it's 43mm. Can't find the other. Maybe it's 52 mm and I don't have to buy one?

I know I saw them just the other day.

Gahh ....

[iporali]

OK - I get it! The DCA barrel has separate "plates" that you can screw to the camera. If this is the case and can you find the 52mm ring, it should fit directly to the Canon adapter and you don't need a special step-down ring. :t:

Ilkka

[Aleix Comas]

For Tannin,

The DCA originally didn't come with the 52mm step-down ring, it was included later on at no extra cost.

Cheers,

[Tannin]

Thanks Aleix. I know my adaptor came with three step-down rings, so I guess the 52mm is the missing one. It's in the house somewhere.

sigh

[sky4082]

DCA came with 28mm, 37mm, 43mm, so I think you lost the 37mm !

[Tannin]

Thanks Sky. You just saved me turning the whole house upside down. Really! I might have wasted 6 or 8 hours doing that.

I'll see if I can find someone to make the part for me. Might be easier than messing around trying to order one ready-made. I saw a link somewhere (in this thread) to a supplier who stocks them, but it's probably easier to get one made than to mess about with overseas mail order. But I'll Google it first, just in case.

[john-henry]

Some comments to Ilkkas reply:
I just got the Canon A95 so i'm quite new on that, but i starting to get a grip on it.
Yes the zoom is “weird” but I don’t se this as a big issue. It’s quite a small step between the steps. I have had no problem attaching my camera to different computers without installing any drivers. Probably a matter of what kind of OS and version you use.
I can’t understand what you mean by “The normal ISO value is only 50”. You have ISO 50, 100, 200 and 400. You have a BULB exposure in manual and Tv mode up to 15 sec. Maybe this is not enough, but it’s there.

There’s I nice feature that allow you to save your custom settings. I also learned a few days ago that you can save the zoom level. So when starting to digiscope you just switch to custom and all your favourite settings are there.


Clas

P.S. I had to test the zoom steps. Theres 7 steps. I took one shot with every step and looked at the exif data. Focal length/35mm equivalent:
8/39, 10/49, 11/54, 14/68, 16/78, 19/92, 23/112. Actually the Focal length is, accourding to Canon, 7.8-23.4 D.S.


Hi Clas
As another new A95 user I, and many others no doubt, would very much like to know how you managed to save the zoom position into mode C.

many thanks

john-henry

[clascronlund]

It was just a good luck that i find it out, how to save the zoom setting.
First I set the zoom to the desired level (and everythig else you want to save).
Next push the MENU button.
In the left column, go all the way down to "C Save settings".
Push the SET button.
You have to be aware that you can only do this in the C, M, Av, Tv, P mode.

/Clas

[john-henry]

It was just a good luck that i find it out, how to save the zoom setting.
First I set the zoom to the desired level (and everythig else you want to save).
Next push the MENU button.
In the left column, go all the way down to "C Save settings".
Push the SET button.
You have to be aware that you can only do this in the C, M, Av, Tv, P mode.

/Clas


Clas
Thanks for a great tip, just tried it and it's exactly as you say, even when coming back from 'sleep mode'.

Regards
john-henry

[jiminlondon99]

Tannin
It may be worth contacting Swarovski direct as although I am not impressed with all their products, their after sales service is IMO excellent. I would not be surprised if they sent the 52 mm FOC. Please update us on your progress as I have an ageing Coolpix and a DCA with the 52mm adapter.......
jim

[Billis]

Hi All I am a complete newby to bird watching and am on the search for my first camera, there seems to be a lot on the forums about the Canon A95 would you think this is a good start for me? I know nothing about lenses so any advice about them also would be appreciated.

[SteveC]

Hi All I am a complete newby to bird watching and am on the search for my first camera, there seems to be a lot on the forums about the Canon A95 would you think this is a good start for me? I know nothing about lenses so any advice about them also would be appreciated.

I was the same Billis but from the advice I got from this forum I went for the A95 and have no regrets. I've only had it a few weeks now but its a cracking camera and I have managed a few good shots just through my bins, now i've got my scope it can only get better.
If you go for this canera you wont be disapointed.

Check out Pixmania, they offered the best deal I could find.

[john-henry]

Hi All I am a complete newby to bird watching and am on the search for my first camera, there seems to be a lot on the forums about the Canon A95 would you think this is a good start for me? I know nothing about lenses so any advice about them also would be appreciated.

Billis
I can thoroughly recommend the A95, it's an all-users camera, easy to use and gives excellent results.
Have a good read of the several threads available in the forum regarding connecting it to your telescope, how other people use it etc. it will give you a good idea of what it's all about before you buy one.

regards

john-henry

[Billis]

Thank you for the advice i will check out the deals and look at the lenses in the forum.

Is there an easy way to get back to your threads? I always have to scroll through pages to find them again?

sorry I'm a complete newbie to this :h?:

[john-henry]

Thank you for the advice i will check out the deals and look at the lenses in the forum.

Is there an easy way to get back to your threads? I always have to scroll through pages to find them again?

sorry I'm a complete newbie to this :h?:


Billis
If you decide to buy one Pixmania seems to offer the best deal, £205 delivered and with a 2 year guarantee.
If you are having problems finding the threads make a note of the heading for the ones that interest you (the heading in left hand column, those on the right are latest additions to it) this should save a lot of searching.

cheers
john-henry

[rogerscoth]

Billis
If you decide to buy one Pixmania seems to offer the best deal, £205 delivered and with a 2 year guarantee.................
I have just bought one from Cameras2u.com for £198.74 (incl.P+P)
see:- http://www.cameras2u.com/products/details.cfm?PRODUCT=9459A007AA
This is my second camera from them, and I have been very pleased with their service. They have a good rating on Pricerunner.com.

Roger

[Yelvertoft]

Hello everyone,

I've been looking for a camera that is suitable for both digiscoping and general use. After reading this thread I had a play with the A95 as it seemed to be highly recommended but finally settled on the Sony DSC-W12 (same as W1 but different colour). I found the Sony had less vignetting than the Canon when used with the elderly Kowa TS-601 and (V. narrow) 30x eyepiece I'd borrowed to try with it. Given the narrow FoV with this eyepiece I'd say it was a fairly severe test. I've since bought the TS-601 scope and a (not quite so vintage) 20x eyepiece. I can get a clear field with no vignetting at about 1.2x optical zoom on the camera lens and the 20x non-wide eyepiece.

I'm still hand-holding without an adaptor and going through a bit of a learning curve regarding what you can and can't do, but I'm having fun and the pictures themselves cost nothing. Some very early attempts are on my gallery, all shots are "full frame" without cropping. They don't come close to some of the shots I've seen from you guys but it's early days yet, I'll get there with patience - a bright sunny day may help too.

The Sony DSC-W5 has the same lens system as the W1/W12 so should work just as well. Other reasons for buying the Sony over the Canon? Startup time is faster and the Sony is smaller/more pocketable with a much bigger/sharper screen and I found the settings easier to navigate.

For a threaded filter adaptor at less than the ridiculous £30 charged by Sony do a search on ebay.com for VAD-WA. Pattern part inc. P&P from US is £16, this item has better 52mm thread than genuine Sony part too. I'm waiting for a mate with a lathe to make me a replica of the genuine Kowa adaptor.

Duncan.

I'm a total newbie at this. :h?:

[Billis]

I have just bought one from Cameras2u.com for £198.74 (incl.P+P)
Roger

Hi Thought i'd share my senior moment with you, I Bid on Ebay for a brand new canon A95 and got it for £170 + £14.99 p&p =£184.99, I thought 'wow' thats not bad, then found out it was plus VAT! Oh no! It cost £217.36 in the end. What a wally I am, I dont get any better with age.

[Yelvertoft]

Hi,

To anyone else reading this thread that hasn't bought a camera yet, there are more options than the Canon A95. The makers of the LE Adaptor liked the Sony W1, I tried one after reading this review http://www.lensadapter.com/products/sony-w1-review.htm by them. I prefer it to the Canon.

By all means try the A95 but I wouldn't want things like "there is no other camera apart from the Canon A95 that is any good for digiscoping" to become self perpetuating myths. This is what appeared to become a pseudo-fact with the Nikon 4500 or earlier versions. I tried researching for information on digiscoping with cameras other than 4500/Kyocera/Contax and came away with the distinct impression I was wasting my time trying other models. It seems the A95 is going the same way.

By the way Billis, I enjoyed your "moment", I know that feeling, though I wouldn't regard myself as a senior just yet.

Regards,

Duncan.

[iporali]

By all means try the A95 but I wouldn't want things like "there is no other camera apart from the Canon A95 that is any good for digiscoping" to become self perpetuating myths. This is what appeared to become a pseudo-fact with the Nikon 4500 or earlier versions.
Duncan,

Good points. I agree that with the Coolpix 9XX/4500 there were some self perpetuating myths (like that superior "internal" zoom and the swivel body thing). However, when we have now learnt to attach cameras with external zooms to our scopes, we probably can not become as easily fixated with a single brand/model as previously.

I have briefly tried one of Sony's W-models (not V as I mentioned above - sorry) and it surely has its merits: it probably is faster than the A95, it may perform better in low light and the large display is a very nice bonus. It also feels more solidly built. But it is also more expensive, uses expensive memory sticks and - IMHO - offers less focus and exposure controls. But if the Sony requires even less eye-relief in the eyepiece, this feature alone may make it better for some scopes.

Regards,

Ilkka

[Yelvertoft]

when we have now learnt to attach cameras with external zooms to our scopes

If anybody is looking for step up or step down adaptor rings, camera adaptor tubes (for many brands including Canon), then I found this place that had a bigger range than I imagined was possible.
http://www.camerafilters.com/pages/cg.aspx
They couldn't help me with an adaptor ring to fit onto the 41mm external thread on the base of a Kowa eyepiece boss but they did at least look around for me and respond to my enquiry. 41mm must be odd because they seemed to do every other size under the sun. Could be a good source of bits for those people wanting to make their own "home-brew" adaptors. Postage outside of US is a bit steep but it could still be cheaper than paying "genuine item" prices given the weak dollar at the moment and could be a source of parts that aren't available locally.

Duncan.

[chris_ly]

Hi Duncan

You don't need to look so far, a UK company, SRB film, has a wide range of adaptor rings & will make to order. You can find them at http://www.srbfilm.co.uk.

They are usually at the Birdfair.

BTW I have no commercial or other connection with this company.

Regards

Chris

[Colin S]

"You don't need to look so far, a UK company, SRB film, has a wide range of adaptor rings & will make to order. You can find them at http://www.srbfilm.co.uk."


Has anyone tried/got the SRB digiscoping mount described in the link above? It sounds good but does it work as well as suggested?
Col

[Keith Reeder]

I had one for a wee while, Colin.

It certainly did the job, but it was too fiddly for my personal needs - it wasn't "quick on, quick off", by any stretch of the imagination, and it didn't allow me to access the eyepiece zoom as I had hoped it might.

But if you were happy to put the adaptor on at the start of the day and leave it in place until you done, then it would be fine.

[Mickymouse]

By all means try the A95 but I wouldn't want things like "there is no other camera apart from the Canon A95 that is any good for digiscoping" to become self perpetuating myths. This is what appeared to become a pseudo-fact with the Nikon 4500 or earlier versions. I tried researching for information on digiscoping with cameras other than 4500/Kyocera/Contax and came away with the distinct impression I was wasting my time trying other models. It seems the A95 is going the same way.

Very good point, I for one would be very interested in how others are getting on with various other makes of camera the more unlikely the better, who knows there might be a lesser known brand that is brilliant, I should be honest and say I use a Canon A510 but the best pic I have managed so far was a complete fluke with my Minolta X20 but that's life.

Mick

[Yelvertoft]

I for one would be very interested in how others are getting on with various other makes of camera the more unlikely the better, who knows there might be a lesser known brand that is brilliant

Mick

Given that there are a huge number of scope/eyepice/camera combinations possible, it seemed most appropriate to me to take my scope, with my eyepiece, into a camera shop and try several models in the appropriate price range.

Everyone seems to agree that you shouldn't buy a scope or binoculars without trying them first, the same applies to cameras. Some will work with your scope, some won't. You may find models that no-one has suggested here (or elsewhere) that work really well with your combination. You may find others that assorted forums rave about that you simply don't get on with for other reasons. Cameras, just like other optics, can be very personal.

The only sure-fire way to know is get out there and try them together with your own scope. All decent camera shops these days stock a huge range and will let you play with them for a while. Just hand-holding the camera over the eyepiece will give a very good idea, very quickly, of what's going to work, and what isn't.

Having let you try them and avoided buying a potential lemon, it is worth giving them your business and buying from them, even if it does mean spending £10 more than you could have got it mail-order. Haggle, many shops will price match mail-order or come close if pushed.

Regards,

Duncan.

[Skean]

Has anyone looked at the Nikon Coolpix 7900? I am not sure but the shutter speeds may be faster and power consumption lower and its 7.1 MP!

[iporali]

Has anyone looked at the Nikon Coolpix 7900? I am not sure but the shutter speeds may be faster and power consumption lower and its 7.1 MP!
Hi,

I have never tried it, but in terms of vignetting (or the lack of it) it seems quite good. If you saw my post elsewhere MY PROBLEM is that I just hate the "scene-exposure" concept used in many point-and-shoot cameras. I know what aperture priority does, but I don't know how to use party/indoor, beach/snow, sunset, dusk/dawn, night landscape, close-up, museum, fireworks show, copy, backlight, panorama assist, and underwater "scenes" - and I don't want to waste my life trying to learn it. That is why I like A-Canons.

Best regards,

Ilkka

[Ghostly Vision]

Can I ask a stupid, unresearched question?

I have a Kowa scope, with the Kowa-own adaptor, used currently with a CP4500.
With my 21x WA lens, I get no vignetting at all, even at minimum zoom on the camera.
In many respects it is a perfect combination - but there are those issues of shutter-lag, outdated sensor (I think we need to be at 7mp+ to get real quality results), and terribly slow multi-shot.

On the plus side, the levels of manual settings are perfect for me as a semi-beginner, and the macro is unparallelled (I do a lot of Flower photography as well as digiscoping).

Is there a replacement that would suit ME?

My basic question is whether a camera with an external zoom would suit my set-up; I am not planning on changing my scope, or the adaptor (which is very good, and new too). I could keep the CP for Botany purposes, so the new one doesn't necessarily need to have a brilliant macro - but it would help, and the CP could help to fund my new camera.

Card format is less of a problem to me also, since I had a Sony camera before, and saved one or two of my cards, and the wife insists on SonyEricsson phones (which also use memroy stick these days).

Any tips welcome. I am not considering buying for a fe wmonths, so if there is anything on the horizon, I would be happy to wait for it to come down in price.

GV

[Robert L Jarvis]

Hi
This was exactly the subject of my thread before this titled "New Camera". Sony now have a W7 with over 7mp and a 2.5 lcd screen. Between all the latest cameras I think it is very difficult to say one is better than the other. In the end it surely comes down to choice and price. I have Sony memory sticks already, so that is not a problem and also have standard memory cards which I use with the DSLR so that is no problem. Not everyone is that fortunate so that can affect choice as cards or sticks are not cheap, so that can be a factor. If you buy Sony their memory sticks can only be used with their cameras and that could be the main point against Sony, it looks probably for most people to look to other brands whose accessories are more versatile.

Robert

[Labrax]

I recently bought a Canon A95 on the grounds that it is pretty much the only camera for under £200 that gets "Highly Recommended" on dpreview (www.dpreview.com). When I bought it I was not planning to use it for digiscoping, but having taken a few shots just holding it up to the scope (see squirrels below) I bought a Baader adaptor (£30, see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=30084) and it seems to work very well. Using a Nikon Fieldscope 60mm ED and 30x WA eyepiece, i can zoom to fully wide and still get no vignetting, which makes finding birds so much easier. The adapter only arrived this morning, so once I have some decent results with it i'll post them.

[Tannin]

An update: I bought the Canon, some time ago now, and waited ages to finally organise a way to attach it to the Swarovski adaptor. I went to Tasmania without it - still trying to make do with a very sick Coolpix, and having to do manual by guess and by god exposure for everything. Not pleasant. Wildlife photography is hard enough at the best of times ....

On arrival home, I had just a single day before setting off on another trip - clearly nowhere near long enough to organise an adaptor ring by mail order from the UK. But the Nikon was hopeless. What to do?

I took the spare 43mm adaptor plate for the Swarovski adaptor (the Coolpixes use the 28mm adaptor plate, remember, and the Canon needs 52mm) and glued the camera's filter adaptor onto the Swarovski adaptor plate, using 5-minute Araldite.

It works perfectly!

Excellent camera. I wouldn't go back to using a Coolpix now, the Powershot A95 is clearly superior.

Good advice from all here at Bird Forum (as always), so thanks a lot. I'll post with more detail (and some pictures of my glued-together digiscoping rig) in a day or two when I get a spare moment.

[pes]

Hi,

I have never tried it, but in terms of vignetting (or the lack of it) it seems quite good. If you saw my post elsewhere MY PROBLEM is that I just hate the "scene-exposure" concept used in many point-and-shoot cameras. I know what aperture priority does, but I don't know how to use party/indoor, beach/snow, sunset, dusk/dawn, night landscape, close-up, museum, fireworks show, copy, backlight, panorama assist, and underwater "scenes" - and I don't want to waste my life trying to learn it. That is why I like A-Canons.

Best regards,

Ilkka

I tried the CP7900 on several scopes including my Nikon ED 82. You are right, in terms of vignetting, it is really good (no vignetting at all from wide to tele on a 30x DS eyepiece for instance). It is also very responsive, battery life is nice and the screen better than a lot of cameras.

But, as you pointed it out correctly, the lack of manual settings is really a problem in the field. A pity that I have to shoot in "portrait mode" to privilege a large aperture :-((
And sometimes it is very difficult to understand the logic of these scene-modes. I have missed a lot of pictures because of this :-((

I also have found that the 7mp are actually NOT an advantage in several occasions: the resolving power achieved by many scopes is often too small to take advantage of the extra pixels. This type of camera does need really good optics. I guess this comes from both the very small lens diameter and high pixels density of the sensor. For example, when used with a 30x DS eyepiece mounted on the ED 82, sharpness is good at wide end, but the scope cannot resolve enough details when the camera is at full zoom. I have found that an image shot at full zoom does not convey much more details than an image shot at wide settings and upsampled in postprocessing.

While enthousiastic at the beginning with the CP7900 (I thought naively that the high numbers of scene modes could replace the lack of manual settings :eat: ), after several weeks of trials, I changed my mind and now I dissuade people to use this camera for digiscoping LOL

Hope this helps,
Pierre

[Erwin Driessens]

I've been digiscoping for a week with the Canon A95 and Swarovski ATS80HD,
and I'm impressed by this combination. Good results for a beginner, see my
gallery for a few examples:

http://birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/21067

[Keith Reeder]

Beginner or not Erwin, they're really high quality images - very impressive.

[rogerscoth]

I've been digiscoping for a week with the Canon A95 and Swarovski ATS80HD..........Erwin, May I ask - what eye-piece and adaptor did you use with your Swaro. 'scope to get such good pictures?
I also have the ATS80HD 'scope (with the 20-60 zoom eye-piece) and A95 camera combination, and have nearly finished making an adaptor to suit.

Roger

[BLB]

I have the the swarovski ATS80HD spotting scope. I'm just getting into digital scoping and thinking about buying the Canon A95. I'm having trouble finding out what kind of eye piece and adaptor did you use. Besides the camera and scope what else do I need? Do you use a remote for the camera? Thanks for the help? Brady

[christineredgate]

I see you have found the thread,Brady.

[Keith Reeder]

Hi Brady,

Swarovski produce their own "swing out" camera adaptor, the DCB, but it's expensive, I understand.

More info here:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=20440

Aside from that option, about the easiest and most cost-effective way to connect the A95 is to buy a Canon LA DC52D, which is an adoptor ring/lens hood which locks onto the front of the camera and provides a thread onto which you can attach a tube adaptor like the Digimount from Photosolve and elsewhere:
http://www.photosolve.com/main/product/digimount/

Note that because the LA DC52D provide a 52mm thread you'd need a step-down(?) ring to attach it to one of the adaptors shown - but other companies produce versions which will attach directly to a 52mm thread.

Or, you can by 3rd party equivalents of the LA DC52D which provide a 37mm thread such as the one from Lensmate:
http://www.lensmateonline.com (site seems to be down at the moment).

As to the eyepiece, I don't know the Swaro range, but the consensus is that a lower magnification EP is the way to go - if you have the zoom, the lowest magnification on that would be a fine place to start.

While the A95 doesn't have a threaded shutter release button, Eagle Eye do an adaptor which screws into the tripod thread of the camera and provides a very workable mount for a remote cable - it's a very good idea to use one.

[Erwin Driessens]

Erwin, May I ask - what eye-piece and adaptor did you use with your Swaro. 'scope to get such good pictures?
I also have the ATS80HD 'scope (with the 20-60 zoom eye-piece) and A95 camera combination, and have nearly finished making an adaptor to suit.

Roger

I use the 20-60x zoom. Don't forget a heavy tripod and cable shutter release,
to avoid vibration. I have been able to make some sharp shots at 1/20 second.
A fluid head is handy to aim and fix the scope quickly, and it also seems to
absorb vibrations. With enough light and practice, I think it is possible to shoot while following a (distant) subject in motion. Left hand to focus, right hand to aim and trigger the digiscope.

I try to stay at 20x, with the camera at 13.6 mm, which is the smallest
magnification you get with this combination, without vignetting. Up to now,
my experience with auto-focus is that it usually fails... So I put the A95 in
manual focus mode, with center magnification on, and focus the old-fashioned
way. Manual focus also allows minimal shutter lag of the system.

I'm using a home-made adapter that fits snugly on the eyepiece rubber on one
end, and mounts onto the A95 bajonet at the other end. It is a prototype to find
the optimal distance between camera lens and eyepiece lens. By turning the
eyepiece rubber, you can vary the distance between the lenses, but I have not
yet experimented enough to know the optimal distance. There are many variables: scope zoom factor, camera zoom factor, camera aperture, focus
distance. Right now I like to be in the field practicing on wildlife, instead of doing
some optics testing...

I noticed that the depth of field seems to vary quite a lot under different
settings. I have to figure out more about this effect.


Good luck,
Erwin