First post on binocularitis--lenghty and dense

[OpticsToad]

First time poster but I've been monitoring this board for several weeks and have mined most of the historical posts for reality-based info on bino recommmendations and their uses bird and wildlife viewing. I currently own and use Pentax DCF SP 8X32s (newly purchased to replace Steiner Safari 8X30s that hurt my head to look through) and Swift Aududon porros 8.5X44s. I've tested the Pentax and Swift in the field, stacked, daylight, twilight, dark night, open areas, wood, near and far, etc. The Swift are better optically and brighter (39 year old eyes talking) in my opinion but the Pentaxs win on usability (FOV, size, weight) and are still very good optically and fairly bright. Here is my dilemna and I hope the experienced bino owner can help move me off of center. I've done multiple before sunrise to after dark testing sessions to evaluate the Pentax under field conditions and they seem adequate. But, the Swift are brighter by a good margin. However, the Swifts are larger, have been returned already for a leaking eye-piece after dragging them through dew-covered brush, and are just "clumpy" as noted in another post. So, do I live with my Pentax limitations knowing they're "good enough" in the twilight? And what is good enough exactly? Do I go with some Pentax 8X42s (are they that much better to justify the pain of buying then selling the 8X32s?), do I go with some SP 10X50s known as great twilight binos and carry them exclusively or in combination with the 8X32s are appropriate? Do I just shut-up and carry the Audubons when I know I'm heading for twilight conditions and be extra careful? Or, at the suggestion of my wife, do I just chuck everything and go with a single, do-all pair of Leica's 8X43s or other flavor high-end bin? Are they REALLY that good overall? Sorry for the dense post but I afflicted with a bad case of the bino-flu and I'm wasting a lot of mental energy overthinking this issue and I figured this would be a good topic and food for thought for the expertise on this forum. Thanks in advance.

[Robert Ellis]

I would recommend two routes:

If you regularly bring a pack then carry something like the 10x50s, but even better a compact scope with a fixed 20x or 30x eyepiece. Look for an angled scope so you can pack a smaller tripod.

or

If you don't pack geat along, or have the extra cash, any of the top fullsize makes would be a nice upgrade in exchange for some weight. If you can't comfortably hand hold 10x the EL 8.5x gives a little boost over the 8x models, as wel as a little better twilight factor than the others. All things are subjective, so make your own decision, they are all very nice pieces. You will also get a wider fov compared to the Pentax 8x43.

[Katy Penland]

Hi, OT, a warm welcome to you from all of us on staff here at BirdForum!

I'm afraid I can't help you with your bins dilemma. I'm pretty much a one-pair kinda birder (B&L 10 x 42 Elites) that I've had for several years and love 'em. But I use them for more than birdwatching -- almost as much time spent on boats whalewatching (and birds, too, of course), so their being small, waterproof and easy to handle has served me well.

[FrankD]

Personally I think it would be smart to just choose one pair. There are several binoculars on the market that provide both a comfy, portable package along with excellent optical performance. You do not need to trade one for the other....but be willing to pay a fair price for it. The Pentax SPs are usually rated pretty highly in birding circles...normally right behind top of the line glasses from Nikon, Zeiss, Swaro and Leica. My guess would be that the 32 mm objective is limiting your "all purpose" hopes particulary because of their performance in low light conditions. A 42 mm model should remedy that issue and because of this I would think that the 8x43 Pentax SP would be the likely choice for your particular situation.

[Pileatus]

First time poster but I've been monitoring this board for several weeks and have mined most of the historical posts for reality-based info on bino recommmendations and their uses bird and wildlife viewing. I currently own and use Pentax DCF SP 8X32s (newly purchased to replace Steiner Safari 8X30s that hurt my head to look through) and Swift Aududon porros 8.5X44s. I've tested the Pentax and Swift in the field, stacked, daylight, twilight, dark night, open areas, wood, near and far, etc. The Swift are better optically and brighter (39 year old eyes talking) in my opinion but the Pentaxs win on usability (FOV, size, weight) and are still very good optically and fairly bright. Here is my dilemna and I hope the experienced bino owner can help move me off of center. I've done multiple before sunrise to after dark testing sessions to evaluate the Pentax under field conditions and they seem adequate. But, the Swift are brighter by a good margin. However, the Swifts are larger, have been returned already for a leaking eye-piece after dragging them through dew-covered brush, and are just "clumpy" as noted in another post. So, do I live with my Pentax limitations knowing they're "good enough" in the twilight? And what is good enough exactly? Do I go with some Pentax 8X42s (are they that much better to justify the pain of buying then selling the 8X32s?), do I go with some SP 10X50s known as great twilight binos and carry them exclusively or in combination with the 8X32s are appropriate? Do I just shut-up and carry the Audubons when I know I'm heading for twilight conditions and be extra careful? Or, at the suggestion of my wife, do I just chuck everything and go with a single, do-all pair of Leica's 8X43s or other flavor high-end bin? Are they REALLY that good overall? Sorry for the dense post but I afflicted with a bad case of the bino-flu and I'm wasting a lot of mental energy overthinking this issue and I figured this would be a good topic and food for thought for the expertise on this forum. Thanks in advance.

You have an owner's advantage I suggest you capitalize on. The Swift's centerfield optics are excellent and I suggest you have them with you when you look for an all-purpose roof. You will be surprised to find more expensive models that aren't as good and others that are marginally better. It's very easy to be fooled into thinking a bin is better than it is, especially under fluorescent lighting. In my opinion, once you've experienced a crystal clear image in a bin, nothing else will satisfy. Furthermore, if you compromise on optical quality, you will always be nagged by the thought you're missing something...and you probably are! The centerfield of the Swift is an excellent benchmark and I suggest you use it to your advantage.

I understand the "performance" of 10X50's in twilight but I'm going to, once again, disagree with the conclusions. My Ultravid 7X42 takes me so far into darkness I think I should build a campfire and start roasting marshmallows. Certainly, a 10X would show more detail (under ANY lighting) but the magnification advantage is often destroyed by handshake, especially in low light. The question I always ask is: What good is detail if handshake destroys it? Truthfully, I see very few 7X's in the field, where 8's and 10's dominate. MOST serious birders I encounter use 10X glasses and the funny thing is I'm sure I experience as much as they do. My picture is smaller and long distance ID's are sometimes beyond my ability, but I view with far less handshake and, for me, that translates into a superior view. However, if I could find a 10X that offered the stability and wide FOV I enjoy so much, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Magnification IS the reason we use a bin!

Good luck.

John

[OpticsToad]

Thanks so much for all the comments. Found a great price on some Zeiss 7X42 Classics and they're on the way! Might be posting some bis for sale soon ;-)

[elkcub]

...
Or, at the suggestion of my wife, do I just chuck everything and go with a single, do-all pair of Leica's 8X43s or other flavor high-end bin? Are they REALLY that good overall? ...

Hi OT,

Welcome aboard.

Let's cut to the chase. Your wife is right. :flowers:

Elkcub

[Pileatus]

Thanks so much for all the comments. Found a great price on some Zeiss 7X42 Classics and they're on the way! Might be posting some bis for sale soon ;-)


Another wise birder chooses 7X. You must have read my post!!
Let us know how you like/love them.

John

[Pinewood]

Thanks so much for all the comments. Found a great price on some Zeiss 7X42 Classics and they're on the way! Might be posting some bis for sale soon ;-)

Dear OT,

Many on birdforum love and use the Zeiss 7x42 classic, including me, even if it is not my sole binocular.

Use it for many years of

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[OpticsToad]

Actually the great deal on the 7X42 Classics was too great to be true. Now, have some lined up for $820 or so. Would you all recommend that route? Or spring for the FLs, BNs for the extra cash? Sorry for the repetative questions but I know you all have been there and I'm betting your hindsight is 20/20.

[henry link]

Used or new? $820 is fine for new (with a North American warranty). IMO $500-600 is more like it for used in very good condition, and then only if they are post 1988 with phase coating and the transferable NA warranty.

[OpticsToad]

$820 as a like-new demo w/ warranty. Best FL 7x42 price is $1221. Is the FL $400 better?

[elkcub]

$820 as a like-new demo w/ warranty. Best FL 7x42 price is $1221. Is the FL $400 better?

The warranty for Zeiss reconditioned or demo binocs is very tricky. I do not think it's lifetime or transferrable as Henry Link recommended. In several respects the FL is "better," but consult your wife again. She knows best. ;)

Regards,
Elkcub

[Jonathan B.]

$820 as a like-new demo w/ warranty. Best FL 7x42 price is $1221. Is the FL $400 better?

If this is an in-store demo which has never been sold, and it is being sold by a licensed dealer, then the warranty would almost certainly be in effect. $820 is a good price, though until very recently (like a couple weeks) Eagle Optics and Christophers, Ltd., both had new ones at under $800 with USA warranty. Neither has it on their website now. About once a month a mint one comes up on eBay, either gray market or from the original owner with the warranty properly filed at the time of purchase.

You really might want to think about FL or Ultravid. And you might look for a good deal on a Trinovid 7x42. There are many of them still in stock, and I have seen quite a few at attractive prices.

[OpticsToad]

Thanks for the Trinovid suggestion. Snatched one up today! Now I'll have a fairly well-rounded collection of optical delights with the 7X42BNs, 8X32SPs, 8.5X44 820s and a Spacemaster spotter for going long. Think I'll be covered and that's the story I'll tell my wife when she asks when I'm selling the other stuff :-)