Stokes DLS

[Robert Ellis]

Well, how much would you lot pay for a pair? $900? $700? Even $500? These need to be very well done in order to compete with the HG/LX. The Vortex name does not carry a lot with it. Has anyone planned on taking a chance on them?

[ranburr]

Why buy a bino that says Stokes? Even if it is good, it is an unknown. How do you know they won't be out of business in a year or two? Who would handle the warranty work? If you decide to sell it, how do you determine resale value? Personally, I would stick with brands that have been around, will continue to be around, and have appeal with large segments of the optics population.

ranburr

[Curtis Croulet]

Stokes binoculars have the same business address as Eagle Optics, so clearly EO will handle warranty issues. If the brand per se doesn't survive, which would be a marketing decision (e.g. slow sales), then I'd expect EO to replace defective bins with whatever their closest comparable model is at that time. I'd suggest that Eagle Optics' chances of survival over the next few years are better than, say, Leica's. I'd judge bankruptcy for EO as less likely than acquisition, hopefully by another reputable optics supplier. Regarding resale value, you're right -- it'll be a long, long time before Stokes has the prestige of the top brands. But to me, of the factors leading to a decision between brands, resale value is well down the list.

[Robert Ellis]

Stokes binoculars have the same business address as Eagle Optics, so clearly EO will handle warranty issues. If the brand per se doesn't survive, which would be a marketing decision (e.g. slow sales), then I'd expect EO to replace defective bins with whatever their closest comparable model is at that time. I'd suggest that Eagle Optics' chances of survival over the next few years are better than, say, Leica's. I'd judge bankruptcy for EO as less likely than acquisition, hopefully by another reputable optics supplier. Regarding resale value, you're right -- it'll be a long, long time before Stokes has the prestige of the top brands. But to me, of the factors leading to a decision between brands, resale value is well down the list.

Vortex is another brand of the parent company for EO called Sheltered Wings, so I would agree with Chris. I would also agree with ranburr, why extend so much money for an unproven design from a company with no history in that segment?

I know EO is a grand company, but this is a new segment for Vortex, whose other binoculars until now have all been in the lower price range.

The company is probably trying to establish the Vortex brand more, but IMHO the piece would sell better as a line topper for Eagle Optics.

[dwalton]

FWIW, I've talked to several U.S. dealers at length this morning about the Stokes Vortex binos (8x42). They all raved like madmen about them. Apparently they all feel like these binos perfectly fil the under-$1000 price range with an excellent product. I won't go into the descriptions that I got from them, other than to say that they all feel that the build quality and image quality are excellent.

[John Traynor]

FWIW, I've talked to several U.S. dealers at length this morning about the Stokes Vortex binos (8x42). They all raved like madmen about them. Apparently they all feel like these binos perfectly fil the under-$1000 price range with an excellent product. I won't go into the descriptions that I got from them, other than to say that they all feel that the build quality and image quality are excellent.

My comment is a question. What is the love affair with IPD's that only go down to ~ 58mm? Many Pentax and EO models simply won't work properly for anyone with an IPD < 58mm and now the Vortex model comes out with an IPD at or above 58mm. The Audubon Equinox (an EO associated company) had a lower IPD (54mm) and I'm wondering why newly designed bins aren't designed with as wide a range as possible. FWIW, most roofs by Nikon, Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski go down to 56mm or less (Zeiss = 54mm).

I'll speculate that many mid-priced bins are created from existing housings and that "design" consists of selecting glass, coatings, and final finish. The Vortex, however, is pushing the $1000 mark so consumers should expect excellent build quality, focus control, cold-weather use, precise and stable collimation, shock resistance, fog and wateproofing, etc.

John

[Robert Ellis]

I'll speculate that many mid-priced bins are created from existing housings and that "design" consists of selecting glass, coatings, and final finish.
John

Bingo, that is why most specs, including IPD, are roughly the same. There are actually two popular designs out there. I wont say exactly a total list of which are related to which for fear of upsetting those here who represent the companies, but all the consumer needs to do is look at the diopeter ring, the end of the central hinge, and the eyecups to see which are related. By the by, alike housings are assembled in both Chinese and Japanese factories, so the same design could originate from either depending on price point.

I spoke to Vortex the other day and they report strong sales and demand through their affiliated retailers for the DLS.

[jasonsailing]

Bingo, that is why most specs, including IPD, are roughly the same. There are actually two popular designs out there. I wont say exactly a total list of which are related to which for fear of upsetting those here who represent the companies, but all the consumer needs to do is look at the diopeter ring, the end of the central hinge, and the eyecups to see which are related. By the by, alike housings are assembled in both Chinese and Japanese factories, so the same design could originate from either depending on price point.

I'm confused, Robert. Are you saying you believe there are only two binocular "designs" on the market today? Wow, that's quite a claim.

Jason

[Robert Ellis]

I'm confused, Robert. Are you saying you believe there are only two binocular "designs" on the market today? Wow, that's quite a claim.

Jason

No, but many of the most popular low- to mid-priced roofs share a heritage. Ever wonder why most 8x42s have around a 330' field of view? Tweaking with the oculars can give a little more eye relief to model x while giving a little wider field or closer forcus to model z.

Many brands source production from the same few Asian production facilities. Modern economics at work.

[Robert Ellis]

Now if we can get them to tell me which company is handling the production I can make a better guess whether they are worth the price or not.

[Otto McDiesel]

I'd suggest that Eagle Optics' chances of survival over the next few years are better than, say, Leica's.

Leica may very well change owners and be re-organized, but the name and the company will be there because the little red dot makes money by itself.

And it will take another 100+ years for Eagle Optics to match the longevity of Leica. Leica has survived two great wars and several storms in the global economy, and it's still around. I am not sure Eagle Optics would have survived events such as the stock market crash of the 1930s for instance. EO will vanish weeks after SHTF (you know what hits the fan) because they are a just a company among others. Leica will be around forever, because they are a cultural, historical, and technical symbol. Not to mention that they make great products.

[Otto McDiesel]

Now if we can get them to tell me which company is handling the production I can make a better guess whether they are worth the price or not.

One of the two or three in Japan, probably.

[Bruce Webb]

The Stokes DLS binoculars have been reviewed on the Optics4Birding.com site and concludes that "while Vortex DLS binoculars are relative newcomer to the crowded binocular market" they are "well designed and well executed, and we think birders are really going to like them."



Bruce Webb
Optics4Birding

[John Traynor]

Let me correct one more time...

Vortex changed the specs on their site. They now read:
IPD ranges for DLS bins
8X42 = 58-76 mm
10X42 = 58-76 mm
http://www.vortexoptics.com/products_stokes_birding_dls.html

If anyone quoted my first post, please delete the reference.

John

[Robert Ellis]

The Stokes DLS binoculars have been reviewed on the Optics4Birding.com site and concludes that "while Vortex DLS binoculars are relative newcomer to the crowded binocular market" they are "well designed and well executed, and we think birders are really going to like them."


Bruce Webb
Optics4Birding
Good find Bruce. Gracias.

[Otto McDiesel]

Beware of this:
"We did note that the depth of field is fairly shallow on the Stokes DLS binoculars – there isn’t much “play” in the focus, emphasizing a need to be precise when focusing."
according to the optics for birding web page.

[cfagyal]

I just purchased these binoculars after talking to some people, to replace my stolen Bausch and Lomb Elite 10x42's. One birder I talked to said they liked the Stokes DLS better than their Swarovski EL's. Said she thought the color was more true, and the image was just as sharp. That to me speaks volumes, especially given the EL's cost 2x as much.

I was pretty skeptical as well about the Vortex name, but I must admit the build quality looks/feels excellent, and the optics seem top notch so far.

Some other notes:

* The neck strap is very soft and comfortable, unlike some binoculars i've seen.
* The case is quite functional and well designed too.
* The bins come with a silky smooth lens cloth which seems to work quite effectively.

[dwalton]

Chris, I'd love to hear your impressions on the Stokes after you've used them for a bit. Having someone say that they are as good as the ELs is quite a statement.

Thanks,
Doug (over in da U.P. of Michigan)

[cfagyal]

Doug,

I'll be out birding quite a bit Saturday and Sunday, so I'll post some impressions Sunday evening.

Cheers,

[John Traynor]

Doug,

I'll be out birding quite a bit Saturday and Sunday, so I'll post some impressions Sunday evening.

Cheers,

Chris,

Your photo of the Kestrel http://www.avianphotos.org/Arizona/slides/AmericanKestrel3.html
completely blew me away. What equipment do use to get your pics?

Thanks.

John

[cfagyal]

Chris,

Your photo of the Kestrel http://www.avianphotos.org/Arizona/slides/AmericanKestrel3.html
completely blew me away. What equipment do use to get your pics?

Thanks.

John
That was taken at the Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum, with a Canon Eos10D and a Canon 400mm f/5.6L USM lens. Appreciate the kind words :)

[jacquot]

I'm thinking about these. After a couple of years, can you give some additional in the field comments--or anyone else using these bins?