Instant nectar mix ?

[Cris]

Okay heres a stupid qustion for all of you. I was useing instant nectar mix before i heard that the red dye could harm the hummers. So i changed to making my own 4 parts water to 1 part pure cane sugar. My neighbor still uses the instant nectar mix. before i changed I had all of the hummers here but since i changed all the hummingbirds left my house and went to my neighbors house. THEY WONT TOUCH THE STUFF I MADE :C and i dont want to go back to the stuff with dye because it might harm them. Did i do something wrong? Why are they choosing the mix over the 4 to 1 recipe? HELP I WANT MY HUMMERS BACK........

[BarbaraM]

Hi Chris - I'm no hummer expert and perhaps I'll be corrected by those who Know more... But - seems to me the change is not in the taste of the nectar but in the amount of red displayed. Now that your feeder has less red showing, the neighbor's feeder(s) stand out more than yours. Try putting some more red around. A recent thread mentioned red ribbons as a temporary measure, planting attracting red-flowered plants, making sure your feeder(s) are visible to hummers flying over (not under trees, eaves, etc.).

It's a very good question, by the way, and I look forward advice from those who are more experienced. Barbara

[humminbird]

This is the first time I have ever heard of this, and I have been urging people to discontinue the use of red food color for more than 5 years. I am of the opinion that it probably has something to do with either the location of the feeders or appearance of the feeders. I would definitely not recommend going back to the red food color.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[Katy Penland]

Are there any environmental factors in your yard or right around the feeders that have changed, Cris? Any insects/bees/ants on/in the feeder itself?

[Cris]

I planted some honeysuckle and changed from the mix and I dont see many ants or bees on the feeder. Whats wierd is every once and a while when i get one to come over they take one sip a leave like it wasnt what they were looking for. If i dont get some more hummers in the next few days I'll replace the feeder with some fresh suger water and place it somewhere else. Don't worry about me going back to the mix i think i'm going to stick to the suger water. anyway i have another qustion does anyone make a hummingbird bath or should i just use a regular bird bath and not put as much water in it??? does anyone use a mister for their hummingbirds and do they like it????

[crickieheather]

I planted some honeysuckle and changed from the mix and I dont see many ants or bees on the feeder. Whats wierd is every once and a while when i get one to come over they take one sip a leave like it wasnt what they were looking for. If i dont get some more hummers in the next few days I'll replace the feeder with some fresh suger water and place it somewhere else. Don't worry about me going back to the mix i think i'm going to stick to the suger water. anyway i have another qustion does anyone make a hummingbird bath or should i just use a regular bird bath and not put as much water in it??? does anyone use a mister for their hummingbirds and do they like it????
Hummingbirds don't use regulr baths, as far as I know. They've been seen bathing in shallow running brooks, in hoses (people watering plants with a hose), on flat leaves in the rain, and under misters. People seem to get the most bathig hummers with the misters. BTW: people report that the misters actully increase the number of hummers around. You may well take some of them back from your dye-using neighbor by putting out a mister. As far as I know, they water must be running or moving is some way for a hummer to bathe there, so regular bird baths don't work.

[humminbird]

Chris:
How long has it been since you changed the water out? You should not be letting it go more than about 5 days without changing it. The water can sour and even ferment if you leave it longer than you should.
Hummingbirds will use SHALLOW birdbaths and they do love misters. I have some great photos of them in sprinklers but I do not recommend sprinklers in the southwest.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[Cris]

I put the water in it 3 days ago. After reading these posts i belive its the location of the feeder. I have mine under a tree where you cant see it very well but my neighbor has hers very visable and by a blooming vine that i'm sure humming birds love. And i don't think it's the suger water i'm using after all the mix is just suger with dye added isn't it(I'm hoping when the vine stops blooming the hummingbirds will return).I have GOT to get some pictures of some bathing hummers.

[streatham]

Hi Cris,

I have read from a variety of reputable sources that there is nothing at all harmful for hummers in the red dye - but at the same time that it doesn't do anything to encourage the birds either. Apparently the red dye is one of those common birding myths that won't go away.

http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/site/backyard_birds/myths/myths.aspx


Luke

[Rosah]

I find just the opposite to be true here Chris. Last year I experimented by putting the instant mix in one of their favorite feeders and the homemade nectar in another one exactly like it and hung them side by side. The instant mix didn't get touched and the hummers drained the homemade nectar by the end of the day. I'd say keep yours fresh and give it a little time.



Okay heres a stupid qustion for all of you. I was useing instant nectar mix before i heard that the red dye could harm the hummers. So i changed to making my own 4 parts water to 1 part pure cane sugar. My neighbor still uses the instant nectar mix. before i changed I had all of the hummers here but since i changed all the hummingbirds left my house and went to my neighbors house. THEY WONT TOUCH THE STUFF I MADE :C and i dont want to go back to the stuff with dye because it might harm them. Did i do something wrong? Why are they choosing the mix over the 4 to 1 recipe? HELP I WANT MY HUMMERS BACK........

[Rosah]

Chris, my hummers bathe in my regular birdbath almost every morning really early. I have some pictures of them but they aren't great because it really isn't light enough yet. I have a dripper on the bath that they use. I tried a mister but didn't have much luck with it.



I planted some honeysuckle and changed from the mix and I dont see many ants or bees on the feeder. Whats wierd is every once and a while when i get one to come over they take one sip a leave like it wasnt what they were looking for. If i dont get some more hummers in the next few days I'll replace the feeder with some fresh suger water and place it somewhere else. Don't worry about me going back to the mix i think i'm going to stick to the suger water. anyway i have another qustion does anyone make a hummingbird bath or should i just use a regular bird bath and not put as much water in it??? does anyone use a mister for their hummingbirds and do they like it????

[Ulli]

Well,
by no means I am an hummingbird expert, but here is another take on the problem.......
A factor could be the actual sugar concentration in the different nectars. Hummers can detect small differences in sugar concentration in nectar, and if they have a choice they may go for the more "valuable", i.e. the one with the slightly higher sugar concentration. Optimal foraging......

Ulli

[Katy Penland]

Hi, Ulli! I see this is your first post, so let me extend a warm welcome to you from all of us on staff here at BirdForum. :t:

[crickieheather]

Ulli makes a good point. Try experimenting with a better feeder location and a slightly higher sugar content.

[birdpotter]

I have to interject here, I don't think it is a good idea to have a higher sugar concentration. 4 to 1 is the highest recommended. 10 to 1 is the least you can get away with. Most flowers' 'sugar' content is equal to the 6 or 7 to 1 ratio.
I think if you get any more concentrated than 4:1, you will find that you have more of a syrup than a nectar.
But I could be wrong. If someone would like to, disprove me. It has been many years since my first ornithology class.

I agree with the positioning theory. That seems the most logical.

Good luck!

Beth

[humminbird]

I have to disagree with birdpotter. People researching the concentration of sugar in nectar are finding numbers in some species running close to 33% (1/3). It would not hurt to drop to 3:1 for a while then slowly go back to the 4:1 once the birds begin feeding. I would also try moving it to a better location - think about it, if you want to sell something you have to advertise.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[birdpotter]

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Best
Elizabeth

[Cris]

YEEEEHAW I just changed this morning to a 3:1 recipe and they are ALL OVER THE PLACE. Thank you Everyone. Mark you said to slowly go back to the 4:1 once the birds begin feeding. Does anyone know if it would harm them to stay at the 3:1??? they seem to like it a lot more.

[crickieheather]

YEEEEHAW I just changed this morning to a 3:1 recipe and they are ALL OVER THE PLACE. Thank you Everyone. Mark you said to slowly go back to the 4:1 once the birds begin feeding. Does anyone know if it would harm them to stay at the 3:1??? they seem to like it a lot more.

Congrats! As far as I know, the 3:1 won't hurt them, but they also need protein, and they tastyness of the sugarwater may keep them from going in search of it. You may want to slowly work back down towards a 4:1.

[Cris]

Okay I'll do that then

[humminbird]

The concern with 3:1 is possible impact on the kidneys of the bird. To my knowledge it has not been tested. I run 3:1 only during migration and in extreme weather. At all other times I drop down to as low a 6:1 with no impact on my hummingbird numbers.
The plants showing the 3:1 ratios are not common in natural situations.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[cfagyal]

Most books i've read, and most people i've talked to generally keep it at 5:1 or 6:1 like Mark just said. I'd definitely not leave it at 3:1...that is too highly concentrated in my opinion, though i'm not an expert...just someone who thoroughly loves hummingbirds :)

[krazyhorse]

i usually feed at a 4 :1.5 ratio but i will say in my area when there is a high consentration of insects they prefer the bugs over the fake nectar

[Curtis Croulet]

and they tastyness of the sugarwater may keep them from going in search of it.

Do you have any evidence or can you cite an authoritative source for this?

[humminbird]

Do you have any evidence or can you cite an authoritative source for this?

That would indeed be interesting to see Curtis.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[crickieheather]

Do you have any evidence or can you cite an authoritative source for this?


Hee. That's why I underlined MAY! No authority but my own guesses. 4:1 feeders are more well visited than 7:1 flowers, and high sugar ratio feeders means that the hummingbirds need to feed less often. As to that bit of info, it comes from this paper: http://www.nabt.org/sub/htdi/v62n04p292.asp

To quote it:
"Based on measurements and analysis of the bird's excreted fluids, Hainsworth and Wolf (1993) concluded that hummingbirds digest all sugar from sugar-water meals. Therefore, it is necessary to consider how often hummingbirds eat and the amount of food they consume daily. This is dependent upon the energy content of the food. As Hainsworth and Wolf (1993) stated, since hummingbirds feed on an assortment of flower nectars (including Fuchsia and Hibiscus, two of which we sampled in our field studies) with caloric values that range from 10 to 82 calories per meal (295 µL), the number of meals is directly related to the caloric-energy provided by the flower nectar.

Hainsworth and Wolf (1993) found that when a rich sugar solution (approximately 82 calories per meal) was used, a three-gram, male, ruby-throated hummingbird ate five meals in an hour--equivalent to a little less than 295 µL. However, when the sugar solution was diluted by one-half, the bird continued to eat the same volume for each meal. Now, however, the bird ate 14 meals in an hour. With the diluted solution and lower energy content, the crop released nectar more rapidly. Even more surprising, since each meal weighed about one-quarter gram, over the course of an hour the three-gram bird consumed 3.6 grams of food. In other words, the bird consumed 0.6 grams, or almost 20%, more in an hour than his body weight. This means that over the 12-hour daylight feeding period, this particular bird (which was assumed to be representative of the rest of the hummingbird population), ate 43 grams of sugar water, or a little more than 14 times his body weight (Hainsworth & Wolf 1993 ). This hummingbird example illustrates the nutritional importance of nectar to its pollinators."

Hainsworth, R., and L. Wolf. (1993). Hummingbird feeding: Hummingbird foods and feeding and questions using the 4:1 sugar-water ratio in feeders. WildBird, May 1993.

[humminbird]

[QUOTE=crickieheather]Hee. That's why I underlined MAY! No authority but my own guesses. 4:1 feeders are more well visited than 7:1 flowers, and high sugar ratio feeders means that the hummingbirds need to feed less often. As to that bit of info, it comes from this paper: http://www.nabt.org/sub/htdi/v62n04p292.asp

I find no evidence of this at all in my own experience. Whether I am running 3:1 (foul weather and migration) or 6:1 (most other times) I find proportionately (based on the number of hummingbirds that I would anticipate in this area from 11 years of data collected locally) the same number of birds visiting my feeders. I frequently see birds fly directly from my 3:1 feeders to Salvia greggii, Turk's Cap, Crossvine and other plants in the garden for a drink. I also frequently observe hummingbirds leaving my feeders, going to perch, and hawking insects several times BEFORE returning to the feeders.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[humminbird]

To quote it:
"Based on measurements and analysis of the bird's excreted fluids, Hainsworth and Wolf (1993) concluded that hummingbirds digest all sugar from sugar-water meals. Therefore, it is necessary to consider how often hummingbirds eat and the amount of food they consume daily. This is dependent upon the energy content of the food. As Hainsworth and Wolf (1993) stated, since hummingbirds feed on an assortment of flower nectars (including Fuchsia and Hibiscus, two of which we sampled in our field studies) with caloric values that range from 10 to 82 calories per meal (295 µL), the number of meals is directly related to the caloric-energy provided by the flower nectar.

Hainsworth and Wolf (1993) found that when a rich sugar solution (approximately 82 calories per meal) was used, a three-gram, male, ruby-throated hummingbird ate five meals in an hour--equivalent to a little less than 295 µL. However, when the sugar solution was diluted by one-half, the bird continued to eat the same volume for each meal. Now, however, the bird ate 14 meals in an hour. With the diluted solution and lower energy content, the crop released nectar more rapidly. Even more surprising, since each meal weighed about one-quarter gram, over the course of an hour the three-gram bird consumed 3.6 grams of food. In other words, the bird consumed 0.6 grams, or almost 20%, more in an hour than his body weight. This means that over the 12-hour daylight feeding period, this particular bird (which was assumed to be representative of the rest of the hummingbird population), ate 43 grams of sugar water, or a little more than 14 times his body weight (Hainsworth & Wolf 1993 ). This hummingbird example illustrates the nutritional importance of nectar to its pollinators."

Hainsworth, R., and L. Wolf. (1993). Hummingbird feeding: Hummingbird foods and feeding and questions using the 4:1 sugar-water ratio in feeders. WildBird, May 1993.[/QUOTE]

While this makes sense, there are several questions that arise in my mind not seeing the technique used to analyse the fecal matter. There are several problems inherent in the analysis of this material that could affect the outcome.

The birds apparently eat the sugar meal when they need the energy, unlike humans who eat sugar because it tastes good!

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[Tz'unun]

I'm chiming in a tad late on this thread, but some issues have been raised that I believe would benefit from additional information.

First, streatham referenced an old Bird Watcher's Digest article in which the late Rik Blom stated that a San Diego Zoo study of red dye is a myth - which is true - and that "[t]here is not a single piece of proof that the dye causes problems" - which is debatable. Since this article was published, several scientific studies have come to light that cast significant doubt on the safety of Red #40, the dye used in most hummingbird feeders solutions. Lanny Chambers has summarized the evidence, with links to the papers in question, on his red dye page:

http://www.hummingbirds.net/dye.html

Second, it's certainly true that the 4:1 (by volume) recipe is almost universally recomended, but no one seems to be sure why since nectar research, including the recent studies Mark alluded to, reveals that this sugar concentration (around 18% by weight) is on the low side of the bell curve for the nectar of hummingbird-pollinated flowers. Some of the research is summarized in an article by Dennis Demcheck in the Lousiana Ornithological Society News:

http://losbird.org/news/0326_201_news.pdf
(scroll down to page 7)

Among the garden plants that Demcheck sampled, different species had different average concentrations (16.9% to 33.2%), and concentrations varied significantly even between flowers on the same plant. Most importantly for this discussion, sugar concentrations in many of the birds' favorite flowers were in the 25-35% range. Various more formal studies have found average sugar concentrations in the nectars of hummingbird-pollinated flowers in the neighborhood of 23 to 28%. At approximately 22.5% sugar by weight, a 3:1 solution is closer to the mean sugar concentration found in natural nectars and to the concentrations the birds prefer than 4:1, a recommendation that may have been based on a more limited nectar sample.

Third, I don't know of any evidence that suggests that stronger sugar concentrations in nectar discourage hummingbirds from hunting. There's some controversy over the relative importance of nectar and invertebrates in the birds' diets and conflicting evidence on how well various species can survive on just one or the other, but it's clear that they need and crave both. We use 3:1 routinely in our feeders and still observe hummers flycatching and see critters in their crops when we band them.

Chris, as long as the birds have a choice among feeders, flowers, and fresh water, you're not putting their health in jeopary by offering them a 3:1 solution, but keep in mind that it's both wasteful and environmentally shortsighted to offer a stronger sugar solution than absolutely necessary to keep your clientele loyal (and lure them away from the neighbor who still uses the red junk).
__________________
Sheri Williamson
http://tzunun/home.mindspring.com

[humminbird]

Well said Sheri. Unfortunately, I did not have access to Dennis or Lanny's materials while I was writing that last reply.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[NOTthePileated!]

I was going to say its probably the sugar concentration. So where do we stand on the whole store bought nectar solution. I remember that when i posted about this last winter that people were saying that it was bad, and that straight sugar and water would work..but i like the idea of giving extra nutrition with the storebought stuff. Any links or experts on this stuff? Whats up?

[Tz'unun]

...i like the idea of giving extra nutrition...

The manufacturers and sellers of commercial "instant nectars" want you to think that their products are better than homemade sugar water, but read the labels - most are >99% sugar (sucrose, a.k.a. ordinary white table sugar, often combined with smaller amounts of dextrose and/or fructose). This wouldn't be so bad, but they usually contain additives of questionable safety (Red #40, which in high doses has been linked to pre-cancerous DNA damage in lab animals) and practicality (artificial flavors that have no demonstrated attractive value except to gullible human buyers). Even those companies that add token vitamins, minerals, etc. hope you won't question the logic behind providing nutritional supplements in liquid form to wild, free-living hummingbirds who get their "hard" nutrition from eating invertebrates and drink natural nectar and feeder solutions just for the energy.

The nectar of hummingbird flowers is basically a sugar-water solution with some electrolytes and traces of other compounds that seem to be "contaminants" that the plants didn't bother to filter out. This summary paper spends most of its time covering the issues of sugar type and concentration but touches on other nectar components:

http://www.up.ac.za/academic/zoology/2003/pdf/ornithophily%20review.pdf

Bottom line: Homemade sugar water is cheap, easy, and amazingly close in chemical composition to the nectar of hummingbird flowers. For additional references pertaining to the mounting evidence against Red #40, read the page linked above in #29.

[krazyhorse]

wayyyyyyyyyy to much math, personally i still believe location and colors and flowers brings them in, hoping so anyhow

[NOTthePileated!]

Ok so, I thought hummers got alot of nutrition from the nectar. So this is not the case. I mean I always knew they ate insects and whatnot, but i thought the nectar was their majority of intake. So if this is correct then yea, sugar water is just as good.
We learn something new everyday...usually.

[Tz'unun]

...i thought the nectar was their majority of intake.

This is correct on a by-weight basis, but it has less to do with the overall nutritional value of nectar than with their extremely high energy requirements and the fact that nectar, whether natural or artificial, is composed mainly of water.

[Curtis Croulet]

Sheri, I wouldn't presume to tell you what you to use in your own feeders, but I do think the hummer-expert community should be consistent about recommending 4:1. Any discension on this will prompt some people to conclude that "even the experts can't decide" and take it as license to try anything they like -- hence the experiments with brandy, vanilla, brown sugar and Aspertame that we've seen in other forums.

[Tz'unun]

As you can see from messages 15 and 22 in this thread, there's still a lot of variation in what people believe is the recommended ratio despite at least a couple of decades of relative consistency in recommending 4:1. Revising recommendations to reflect the current state of knowledge is the scientific thing to do, and it's scientists in the hummingbird community who have changed their recommendations to reflect data on sugar concentrations in the nectar of hummingbird flowers. Even Wolf and Hainsworth's scheme - of which I don't approve for reasons they failed to consider - is based on scientific data on nectar composition and hummingbird energetics.

I believe that the one thing on which we absolutely must be consistent is the basic formula: Plain white sugar + good clean drinking water. Period. NO honey, "raw" sugar, artificial sweeteners, distilled/purified water, dye, protein supplements, Kool-Aid, Gatorade, Jello, etc. It's been my observation that people who use stronger-than-recommended solutions often do so out of a lack of information, while those who experiment with weird additives tend to be motivated by perverse curiosity, the "If it ain't broke, why not try to fix it anyway?" school of tinkering. Even having the entire hummingbird community in lockstep on these issues isn't going to completely prevent this sort of meddling, but we should do our best to make sure that the vast majority of hummingbird enthusiasts recognize it as silly at best and dangerous at worst.

[Lady19thC]

First of all, you can purchase the premade stuff without dye, so that is a big option. Secondly, put out flowers that attract them and provide natural food. Salvia, fuschia, bee balm, butterfly bush, etc. They love things like day lilies, hollyhocks, anything with a trumpet shape, tuberlar shape. Use lots of reds, oranges and then bring in the pinks, blues and yellows. Cluster them, make the garden full of bloom. And get that feeder out into the open, where they can see it. Also change the water more frequently. I change mine every other day, and every day in the hot weather. I have found that makes a huge difference. And be sure to clean them correctly. :bounce:

[Curtis Croulet]

Sheri, I was impressed last year when you mixed new nectar for a feeder at my cabin by just dumping in an amount of sugar and water that "looked" right. The birds seemed to like the new stuff as well as the old. I'd agree that there's an unnecessarily anal-retentive aspect of the exact 4:1 recommendation and that worries about the effects of 3:1 are unwarranted. I'd be curious about the source for some of the weak concentrations recommended in this thread. At the strong end, I've occasionally seen the attitude in other forums of, "If x amount is good, then a whole lot more should be better," leading to people bragging about using 1:1 (invoking "concentraton envy").

[Tz'unun]

Curtis: In fairness to the flowers, a few species offer nectar that's the equivalent of 1:1. I don't approve of these syrupy solutions for a number of reasons, but as long as the birds have choices (flower nectar, neighbors' feeders with lower sugar concentrations, and clean water), I trust them to meet their own water needs.

Lady19thC: Your points about flowers and feeder hygiene are well taken. As for colorless commercial "instant nectar," I don't consider that a "big option" unless you mean a big optional dent in my bank balance. Out here in Arizona some feeding stations go through hundreds of pounds of sugar a year. Using these products - which sell for the equivalent of $4 to $6 a pound, between 6 and 17 times the cost of ordinary white sugar - would put us in the poorhouse! These products are >99% sugar, and there's nothing in that remaining <1% that justifies the astronomical cost. Try as I might, I can't think of a single good reason to use commercial "instant nectar" products of any kind.

[Lady19thC]

Actually, I was responding to the original poster and I guess it depends on where you are located. I usually get one or two hummers for the entire season-so buying a premade mix, without the dye, is very affordable up here in northern MA. Last night we had a frost, there aren't many flowers out, the season is very short, and we only get hummers for about 2 months. They eventually turn to the daylilies, and other flowers for nectar, instead of the sugar water, and then migrate back south, so I probably spend about $6.00 total for the entire summer on premade mix! We only get ruby-throats, and seem to be right around the line where they don't migrate any further North, so there isn't a huge hummer population here. Enjoy your multitude of hummers! I was actually very surprised to see one, this morning, since they usually don't show up until it is much warmer out.

[Tz'unun]

...buying a premade mix, without the dye, is very affordable up here in northern MA.

I'm still unclear on why you would want to do this. There are absolutely no advantages: it's far more expensive than plain white sugar, wastefully packaged, and - bottom line - no better for the birds even without the dye (and may be worse, depending on what else is in it). Based on what you currently pay for the commercial stuff, an entire season's worth of sugar is going to cost you less than a dollar, maybe even less than 50 cents. For more on this issue, please read message #32 in this thread.

[humminbird]

I have to concur with Sheri. If you are fortunate enough to live in a place where some of this stuff is sold without the red food color, and many of us can not find it, it is still going to be far more expensive than it is worth. Then when one considers all the "additives" that are supposed to benefit the birds but actually pass right through the birds, and in some cases it does not even provide the basics needed to make it (some have seen packages that say "just add sugar and water, what is in the package then?) it really makes more sense to make your own. Very easy, materials are available in every kitchen, and far more healthy for the birds.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[Beach Bum]

I'm new here as a poster, although I've been an occasional lurker for some time.

I hope no one minds my resurrecting this thread, but a few days ago, I did a Google search on the subject since I'd recently decided that I could mix sugar and water better than the merchandisers and for a lot less money.

I suspect there must be thousands of hits on the subject of Hummingbird nectar concentrations experiments. I didn't read through all them, and quite a few of them were written by Professors of Biology. However, here's what I got from some of them:

Using a multitude of concentrations, from 10% up to 70%, the one preferred by the greatest number of Hummers was around 50%. When the choices were narrowed to several selections within a narrower concentration range, the Hummers didn't seem to be able to distinguish between, let's say, 25% and 30%.

The main observed difference from the different concentrations was that the hummers visited less often if they we getting the higher concentrations. And, there was no change in the territorial-ism of the males based on concentration or reasonable distance changes between feeders. Territorial-ism seems to have more to do with specific geographical boundaries rather food supplies.

And, since I've gone to my own mix, without the dye, but with a slightly higher concentration, I think I'm getting more hummers that are probably feeding less often. Such is life.

Bob

PS: The larger type is easier to read beyond age 60 :brains: .

[KCFoggin]

Hi Beach Bum. I see this is your first post so a warm welcome to you from those of us on staff here at BirdForum :t:

I have always used the generally accepted mixture of one part sugar to 4 parts water. I can't put my hands on where the article is at the moment but it is again, generally accepted that the one part sugar to 4 parts water echos the nectar in flowers that they feed from.

Hope you enjoy your time here.

[Curtis Croulet]

Well, it's my understanding that sugar concentration in hummer-attractive flowers varies a lot, and it often exceeds the "standard" 1:4 sugar-water mix. Among the considerations here are economy (you don't want to use more sugar than necessary) balanced against nectar sufficiently interesting to invite return visits. Concentrations as high as 1:1 (i.e., 50% sugar) are probably not the threat to hummingbird-dom that they have sometimes been portrayed to be, but they're not necessary, either. I know of experts who go to 1:3 in cold-weather situations, but -- AFAIK -- most use and recommend 1:4 most of the time. You don't have to be anal about getting it exactly on-the-nose. A reasonable guess is fine. The people I personally know who have the most birds use 1:4 all the time. Location is the biggest part of this. The purest, most-precisely concocted nectar in the most hummer-friendly feeder will not achieve much in a poor location. Other than moving, there's not much you can do about it.

[humminbird]

Well said Curtis. Since it has been analyzed to contain as much as 25 mg of sugar, I am sure that trumpet creeper has a far higher concentration than the 4:1 (20%) people often urge (including yours truly). It is not essential to be "right on" with the concentration - I know people that are using as weak a solution as 8:1. This is, in my opinion, more of a threat to the birds than would be a 2:1 or even 1:1 mix, since the birds have to feed more often and are at an increased risk of starvation.
So where does the 4:1 come from? My understanding is that it is a close (notice not an exact) match for an average of commonly used hummingbird plants. Note, if trumpet creeper is a 2:1 or higher mix then some of these plants must be a very weak mix as well. People like a "recipe" that is easy to use and remember. The 4:1 fills that niche nicely.

[Beach Bum]

Thanks for the responses.

What you've said is pretty much what I got from the various articles I found. And my Google search kind of went away from the normal amateur bird watching group which do seem to rely on the 4:1 thing, which is what I've always followed.

As I recall, my Google search title was "Hummingbird Nectar Concentration Experiments", or two or three variations on that title. Needless to say, most of the hits I got were University studies done in various biology departments across the country. Some were far to ponderous to be useful, but several of them were quite readable and helpful. And most of them worked very hard to eliminate all other variables from the experiments. An interesting way to waste a Sunday afternoon. ;)

Bob

[Tz'unun]

Hi, Bob,

It looks like you might have read at least one of these articles:

Stromberg , Mark R. and Peter B. Johnsen. 1990. Hummingbird Sweetness Preferences: Taste or Viscosity? Condor 92: 606-612. (http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/files/issues/v092n03/p0606-p0612.pdf)

Blem, Charle R., Leann B. Blem, Joel Felix, and Jennifer Van Gelder. 2000. Rufous Hummingbird Sucrose Preference: Precision of Selection Varies with Concentration. Condor 102: 235-238. (http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/files/issues/v102n01/p0235-p0238.pdf)

These articles are very misleading and hard to compare with others because of the weird way that the authors figured their concentrations. The standard way of expressing sugar concentrations in nectar is by the weight of the sugar as a percentage of the weight of the solution. Using this method, you'd make a 50% sugar solution by adding 50 grams of sugar to 50 grams water, resulting in 100 grams of solution of which 50 grams is sugar. According to the "Methods" sections of these articles, the authors mixed solutions by combining X grams of sugar with 100 milliliters of water, which were then designated as "X%" concentration (1 ml water weighs 1 gram). At lower concentrations, this calculation is only a little lower than the standard expression, but the higher you go the farther apart they get!

If we use the standard calculation on the solutions described in the articles, a "10%" solution - 10 g of sugar added to 100 ml of water - contains only about 9.1% sugar by weight. The highest concentration offered in the first study, "40%", is really only 28.6% sugar, and the "70%" solution in the second study is only 41% sugar.

Various studies have found that the nectar of dozens of species of hummingbird-pollinated flowers ranges from less than 5% sugars by weight to nearly 55%, with the middle of the bell curve falling in the range of 20 to 25% - somewhere between 4:1 and 3:1 by volume. Various studies have found that the plants are apparently being a bit stingy, and that hummingbirds actually prefer slightly sweeter nectar than they usually get. If the authors' descriptions of their methods are accurate (and there's no reason to assume that they're not), it shouldn't come as any surprise that the "50%" solution - about 33.3% sugar by weight, a bit higher than the middle of the natural-nectar bell curve - was the most favored.

FWIW, I base my own feeder solutions on the middle of that natural-nectar bell curve, using 4:1 (about 18%) during hot and/or dry periods and 3:1 (about 23%) during migration and winter.

[Curtis Croulet]

I'd suggest that evolution has led hummingbirds to seek the sweetest nectar possible (maximum result for effort expended), but evolution never expected them to find unlimited quantities of the stuff. We like fat and sweets, but in the primeval world such things would have been rare and the result of much hunting or luck.

[Beach Bum]

I'm pretty sure one of the authors I read was Stromberg. But the best paper I recall was written by a couple of professors at, I believe, a university in Virginia. I should have printed it out. Anyway, you're right about how one measures the sugar and water. I doubt there's much uniformity about it but, fortunately, the little Hummers seem to be pretty adaptable.

And Curtis, I'm sure you're right that the hummingbirds had to work a lot harder before humans discovered how much fun they are to watch. Right now, I've got three feeders up and next spring, I think I'll add a forth. :t:

Bob

[Beach Bum]

Incidentally, I went to your website and read your article about feeding hummers. I was in the local wild bird shop this afternoon and noticed they had clear Hummingbird nectar there. I didn't notice whether they had the colored stuff or not.

However, it seems if a person realizes that the red dye stuff is bad, why bother buying a bottle of pre-mixed sugar-water when it's so easy to mix at home? And so much cheaper.

Bob

[Tz'unun]

However, it seems if a person realizes that the red dye stuff is bad, why bother buying a bottle of pre-mixed sugar-water when it's so easy to mix at home? And so much cheaper.

That's the $64,000 question, ain't it? I think it's because aggressive marketing by manufacturers and retailers has convinced us that what we make at home can't possibly be as good as what we buy in a store. Sometimes that's true, but this is one of many cases where it's definitely not. But the companies that market that junk are getting rich off gullible folks.

"Designer water" is another example of how marketing has manipulated us consumers, but ironically bottled water is more likely to improve the quality of your hummingbird feeder solution than prepackaged "instant nectar."

[Curtis Croulet]

Tz'unun, you and I saw, in that other forum that we deserted last year, instances of people coming in with the health-food mentality, the idea that sugar water is "junk food" (like a diet of Cokes for us), that it promotes diabetes in hummingbirds, and that hummers hooked on it will not get necessary nutrients -- unless we intervene and provide it for them. The purveyors of store-bought nectar prey on and take advantage of these misconceptions.

[Tz'unun]

The purveyors of store-bought nectar prey on and take advantage of these misconceptions.
That they do. What I find mystifying is that none of the manufacturers has made a real effort to produce and market an "instant nectar" based on the composition of real nectar. Instead, in a product whose package claims that it "duplicates as closely as possible the natural nectar derived from flowers," we get tartaric acid, sodium benzoate, and artificial food coloring [Red #40] and flavorings - none of which occur in natural nectar.

The ingredients list of "Natural Springs Nectar" - one of the "just add sugar" products - is longer and scarier, and their marketing tactics - as Curtis knows - are downright offensive. Their products carry the message "As Advertised in Audubon Magazine!" as though this constitutes some sort of endorsement. Even worse, their packages recommend against feeding sugar water to hummingbirds, quoting John James Audubon lamenting the short lives of CAPTIVE hummingbirds fed only a sugar or honey solution. Gee, I guess they couldn't get anyone who's been dead for less than 150 years to weigh in on the subject! Someone at the company obviously realized that the Audubon name provides instant credibility in the minds of many naïve bird lovers, and they've been taking shameless advantage of that fact.

In theory, a base of mineral-enriched water to which you add sugar is a good idea, given that the quality of tap water varies much more than that of table sugar, but Natural Springs goes way overboard with artificial coloring, vitamins, and preservatives in an attempt to preserve the vitamins. If you really want to pay close to six bucks a gallon and still have to supply the sugar, you might as well just make your feeder solution with Perrier or Evian - at least it doesn't have dye or preservatives. On the other hand, if you really want to pay six bucks a pound for a "just add water" product, go to the gourmet grocery and buy superfine baking sugar. Better yet, add a couple of pounds of gourmet sugar to a gallon of designer water - you'll get a little over a gallon of primo feeder solution for only about $18!

[Beach Bum]

While we're on the subject of nectar, I've heard two theories on when to bring in the feeders and store them. One person on one of the forums said feed them until they decide on their own to leave. Another person said I should bring the feeders in when I think it's too cold for them and force them to leave.

I've tried it both ways, but I'm inclined to believe the Hummers know better than I as to when they're ready to go.

Thoughts?

Bob

[humminbird]

While we're on the subject of nectar, I've heard two theories on when to bring in the feeders and store them. One person on one of the forums said feed them until they decide on their own to leave. Another person said I should bring the feeders in when I think it's too cold for them and force them to leave.

I've tried it both ways, but I'm inclined to believe the Hummers know better than I as to when they're ready to go.

Thoughts?

Bob

IMHO, PLEASE leave the feeders up as long as birds are there. The nonsense that a feeder can keep a healthy bird from migrating goes against everything we observe in our own gardens every fall - our feeders are up and yet thousands of birds migrate anyway.

Mark

[Beach Bum]

IMHO, PLEASE leave the feeders up as long as birds are there. The nonsense that a feeder can keep a healthy bird from migrating goes against everything we observe in our own gardens every fall - our feeders are up and yet thousands of birds migrate anyway.

Mark

That makes the most sense to me. The person who told me otherwise, is one of those who wants to consider themselves to be an expert on everything, but isn't. Common sense says the birds know better than we do about when it's time to ship out.

Bob

[craig whitmore]

hi friends: Isn't it amazing this thread has been running for almost a year and a half. May I throw in a couple of observations. Manufacturers of fishing lures don't make them to attract fish, fish have no purchasing power. They make them to attract fishermen. The corollary---manufactures of commercial nectars make them to attract birders, not hummingbirds. I have been feeding 4 to 1 by volume for over 50 years, and guess what, have not had a single complaint. One trick I stumbled on while feeding down in Mexico in Baja California, was to place a hollowed orange peel under the feeder, keep it moist and in a few days, lo and behold, a colony of drosophilae.
When the birds come in to feed the air from their wings stirs up the fruit flies, and you will be treated to hawking right in front of your eyes. We all have observed how territorial these rascals can be. Location, location, location. If the feeder is placed so there is a protected perch a few yards from the feeder, they will hang out there to protect their territory.
Off thread---Mr Temecula. If you are still on board. re: that remarkable picture you posted some time ago of dozens of rufous at your feeders during migration. Do you get them both spring and fall? I get a few here in the southern Cascades in the spring, not in the fall. Read somewhere that fall migration is east of The Sierras. What's your take.
Craig :hi:

[humminbird]

Off thread---Mr Temecula. If you are still on board. re: that remarkable picture you posted some time ago of dozens of rufous at your feeders during migration. Do you get them both spring and fall? I get a few here in the southern Cascades in the spring, not in the fall. Read somewhere that fall migration is east of The Sierras. What's your take.
Craig :hi:

That is my understanding Craig. We get them here in Central Texas in the fall and winter - very few after February.

Mark

[Curtis Croulet]

Off thread---Mr Temecula. If you are still on board. re: that remarkable picture you posted some time ago of dozens of rufous at your feeders during migration. Do you get them both spring and fall? I get a few here in the southern Cascades in the spring, not in the fall. Read somewhere that fall migration is east of The Sierras. What's your take.
Craig :hi:
The photo you're probably thinking of was taken by Frank Janzen of Mountain Center, CA, 40 miles east and 4000 feet above me.

[Beach Bum]

For anyone interested, I found one of the articles I ran across about a month ago. If anyone wants to read it, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Bob

Here's the address:


http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:IayXQmrN4i4J:elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/files/issues/v102n01/p0235-p0238.pdf+hummingbird+nectar+concentration+experim ents&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

[Tz'unun]

For anyone interested, I found one of the articles I ran across about a month ago. If anyone wants to read it, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Bob

Here's the address:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:IayXQmrN4i4J:elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/files/issues/v102n01/p0235-p0238.pdf+hummingbird+nectar+concentration+experim ents&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

Bob, this is the other article I cited in message #49 in this thread. As I mentioned in that message, the authors used the same screwy method for making sugar solutions that are way off from the true percentages you'll find referenced in other papers. To take their method to the extreme, you'd get a "100%" solution by adding 100 grams of sugar to 100 grams of water. This sort of sloppy science ends up being very misleading if you don't read the Methods section carefully and compare the resulting solutions to the accepted standard.

I find the PDF version much easier to read. You can find it here (http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/files/issues/v102n01/p0235-p0238.pdf)

[Beach Bum]

Sheri,

Thanks. I appreciate the insight. The article was interesting and seemed thorough. However, all I was willing to take from it was that 4:1 is not hard fast. I'm not trying to turn the world upside down, but I'm always interested in details. And, again, all the article really did was confirm what others have said, that Hummers feed from a variety of flowers with a range of nectar concentrations. What a dull world it would be for the Hummers if every flower out there was exactly 4:1. |;|

Bob

[Beach Bum]

Resurrecting a very old topic, here's an article I came across today.

Bob
==========================================


From WildBird magazine, May 1993, with permission:

Hummingbird Feeding
Researchers Studied Hummingbird Foods and Feeding and Question Using the 4:1 Sugar-Water Ratio In Feeders
by Reed Hainsworth, Ph.D. and Larry Wolf, Ph.D.

Obtaining the food needed to live from day to day is a fundamental part of life for birds. Imagine small hummingbirds discovering a large amount of food in one place, such as a feeder. For them a feeder is supernatural. Within a very short time at a feeder, a small, hungry hummingbird can solve its immediate requirements for food.

The very size of hummingbirds makes their survival an even bigger adventure. Hummingbirds must eat more than their weight in food each day, and they fulfill this need by eating often. Because their survival depends critically on eating frequently more than any other animal - they continually face the danger of starving.

Hummingbird Meals
How much and how often do hummingbirds eat? When we studied hummingbirds in the laboratory, we found that they, like humans, eat meals. A meal is a relatively quick and large intake of food, which is followed by time when no feeding occurs while the energy that has been consumed is used. In the lab, hummingbird meals are easy to observe because the birds fly from feeders back to a perch, and they do not come back to a feeder until they are ready for their next meal.

An X-ray of a Magnificent Hummingbird shows what happens to a meal once it is eaten. Food initially passes to an elastic sac in the neck called a crop, which serves the same storage and supply functions as a stomach. Small amounts of food empty from the crop and pass to the Intestine, where sugar is assimilated into the blood.

Measurements of excreted fluids show hummingbirds digest all the sugar from sugar-water meals. How often hummingbirds eat meals, and the amount they eat in a day, depends on the energy content of food. Hummingbirds feed on a variety of flower nectars with caloric values that may vary from 10 to 82 calories per meal (1/100 fluid ounces).

We found that when using a relative rich sugar solution, a three gram male Ruby-throated Hummingbird ate five meals an hour. For each meal he consumed a little less than 1/100 of a fluid ounce.

When we diluted the food by one-half, the Ruby-throat continued to eat the same volume for each meal, but he ate 14 meals an hour, or one meal every four or five minutes. The crop emptied more rapidly when the energy (sugar) content of its food was lower. Each meal weighed about one-quarter gram, so with 14 meals an hour, the three-gram bird ate 3.6 grams, or more than his weight in one hour! Over a 12-hour daylight feeding period, this hummingbird ate 43 grams of sugar water, or 14 times his weight in food. Even with the richer food, he ate 5.4 times his weight in a day.

The Impression from this frantic eating schedule seems to confirm that a hummingbird might very quickly starve to death if it does not eat in a short time. How, then, do these birds manage to survive overnight without eating?

To find out, we measured the amount of energy they used compared to the energy they ate. We measured energy they used while they perched and while they hovered, and we found a three-gram hummingbird used 15 times more energy in a minute to hover than to perch. When we added up the energy a hummingbird used after it ate a meal, we found it went back to eat again before it had utilized all the energy it had eaten. Some energy from each meal was saved and stored as fat.

Energy storage keeps a hummingbird from starving, but not for long. The energy stored by the end of a day usually is just sufficient to survive overnight.

What happens if a hummingbird cannot feed enough, or if it is cold and more energy must be used to keep warm overnight? Fortunately, hummingbirds, like hibernating mammals, can lower their body temperature overnight to conserve energy.

However, we found that hummingbirds do not lower their body temperature unless there is a danger they actually may starve. Even with their abilities to save some energy and to conserve energy in an extreme crisis, the impression is that small hummingbirds face big problems because they must eat often.

One way to help solve the problem is to eat energy-rich food; a hummingbird can store more energy from each meal, so their survival problems are reduced by feeding on rich foods. Hummingbirds spend most of their feeding time visiting flowers to eat nectar. Is it a rich food?

Nectar
To the ancient Greeks, nectar was the drink of the gods, thus you might think nectar is pretty special. Actually flower nectar is a simple fluid composed mainly of water and sugar. Anyone who has sucked a honeysuckle or petunia blossom can testify to nectar's sweetness.

Analysis of the nectar from 124 plant species showed that it is composed of a combination of sucrose (table sugar), glucose and fructose. None of the nectars contained only glucose or only fructose. When we gave hummingbirds a choice between feeders containing sucrose and those with only glucose or only fructose, they preferred the sucrose.

Nectar also contains very small amounts of protein, and sodium and potassium salts. However, hummingbirds get most of their protein by eating small insects for a short time each day.

We were interested to know the sugar concentration, or the amount of sugar dissolved in a volume of water contained in lower nectar. This information would show how natural foods influence hummingbird feeding, and what sugar concentration to mix so hummingbird feeders provide the same food values that hummingbirds get from flower nectar.

We found that sugar concentrations differ widely among plant species, so no single sugar-water concentration is representative of all flower nectars that hummingbirds eat. The lowest sugar concentration we found was 10 calories in flowers of Iris missouriensis in the mountains of southeastern Arizona, while the highest, 82 calories, was for a Salvia in the Sonoran Desert in the same region.

The mean average sugar concentration for 65 plant species was 32 calories; the highest concentration was more than twice that, while the lowest was more than three times less than the average. This means hummingbirds will eat more or less frequently depending on the sugar concentration of nectar in the flowers they visit.

Sugar Solutions
Considering such large differences In nectar sugar concentrations in flowers, it is possible to mix different solutions of sugar and water to achieve different goals, while still providing food similar to what the birds obtain from plants. Backyard birders have two major goals: to provide food to attract hummingbirds so they continue to visit, and to maintain feeding frequencies so it is easier to watch and enjoy the birds' behavior.

A hummingbird Is more likely to stay at a feeder when it first arrives if the feeder contains a relatively rich sugar solution. A 60 calorie solution can be mixed for this purpose with equal volumes of sugar and water (1:1 ratio). This high concentration is important to replenish energy reserves during migration, and to fuel the territorial exploits of males and nesting activities of females.

Once hummingbirds have been attracted with a rich sugar solution for two or three weeks, a lower concentration will increase their feeding activity and still provide sufficient energy. To promote high rates of feeding activity, mix one part sugar with four parts water (1:4 ratio). This 10-calorie solution is similar to lower sugar concentrations in nectar produced by some plants.

It will seem like there are many more hummingbirds visiting your feeders because each bird will feed 10 to 12 times an hour in comparison to two or three times an hour with richer food. If you wish to make the change from high to low sugar concentrations more gradual, the "average" 35-calorie concentration can be mixed with one part sugar and two parts water (1:2 ratio).

It Is not necessary to always provide the same concentration as the average found In flowers. Like a feeder for seed-eating birds, a hummingbird feeder is efficient because a bird can find and eat a meal very quickly. Although a higher caloric food in a feeder is more efficient for the birds, it decreases their feeding activity. It helps if neighbors coordinate changes in sugar-water concentrations because hummingbirds always prefer a higher sugar-water concentration. By studying the feeding behavior and physiology of hummingbirds in relation to flower nectar sugar concentrations, it has become obvious there is no best or most healthful feeder solution. Regardless of what sugar-water concentration you use, be sure to keep your feeders clean and your nectar fresh for the birds.

Dr. Reed Hainsworth and Dr. Larry Wolf are Professors of Biology at Syracuse University in New York. They have been studying hummingbird physiology and ecology for 25 years in the United States and tropical America.

[Tz'unun]

Bob, that 14-year-old article has already been discussed in this very thread. See messages 26-29. It's also discussed in this thread:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=43317&highlight=Hainsworth

[Greg Scott]

(Returning to the original question) I think that the change from colored nectar to clear may have caused the temporary decline in hummingbird visits.
You didn't say if the feeder has any or much red on it. As a photographer who works in campsites in Madera Canyon and Cave Creek Arizona, I'm VERY competitive with other photographers and their feeders. I think that I get an advantage in shadier campsites, for example. I also have used red "fake" stained glass paint, obtained from a hobby shop, to paint the outside of the clear glass in my hummingbird feeders. I feel that this may give me an "edge" in attracting hummers. Another photographer I know hangs about a half dozen red plastic disposable cups in nearby trees to lure the birds into range.

It could be that your birds "assumed" that your feeder was empty because they were used to seeing more red (nectar), and it took them a while to discover that it was, indeed, stocked. Hummingbirds adapt very quickly to changes in nectar production in flowers, for example, and perhaps this is a variation of that sort of short-term behavorial adaptation.

My guess that using a decreasing mix of red nectar and clear nectar would have gradually made the transition from red to clear with no decrease in hummingbird activity.

At home, I have plenty of red hummer flowers, and use more feeders each with red at the feeder port. It seem to make no significant difference which feeders I use. A further note: I cut all the perches off of my hummer feeders. The birds don't need them, and as a photographer, I'd prefer to get a shot with little or no hummer feeder in the photo.

You can see my photos (and my Dad's) at http://www.gregscott.com. Some of the photos are the highest resolution hummingbird photos that I've seen on the web, and they're very sharp and clear generally, because I use high speed flash to freeze the blur on the wings, etc.

Here's a sample from this year:
http://www.gregscott.com/gjs_2007_spring/hummingbird/20070311_1941_100_0554.rufous_humminbird.jpg

[Greg Scott]

my previous post was virtually unreadable because of the wide body because of the large photo. Here's the text of the above post in a more readable form:
(Returning to the original question) I think that the change from colored nectar to clear may have caused the temporary decline in hummingbird visits.
You didn't say if the feeder has any or much red on it. As a photographer who works in campsites in Madera Canyon and Cave Creek Arizona, I'm VERY competitive with other photographers and their feeders. I think that I get an advantage in shadier campsites, for example. I also have used red "fake" stained glass paint, obtained from a hobby shop, to paint the outside of the clear glass in my hummingbird feeders. I feel that this may give me an "edge" in attracting hummers. Another photographer I know hangs about a half dozen red plastic disposable cups in nearby trees to lure the birds into range.

It could be that your birds "assumed" that your feeder was empty because they were used to seeing more red (nectar), and it took them a while to discover that it was, indeed, stocked. Hummingbirds adapt very quickly to changes in nectar production in flowers, for example, and perhaps this is a variation of that sort of short-term behavorial adaptation.

My guess that using a decreasing mix of red nectar and clear nectar would have gradually made the transition from red to clear with no decrease in hummingbird activity.

At home, I have plenty of red hummer flowers, and use more feeders each with red at the feeder port. It seem to make no significant difference which feeders I use. A further note: I cut all the perches off of my hummer feeders. The birds don't need them, and as a photographer, I'd prefer to get a shot with little or no hummer feeder in the photo.

[humminbird]

my previous post was virtually unreadable because of the wide body because of the large photo. Here's the text of the above post in a more readable form:
(Returning to the original question) I think that the change from colored nectar to clear may have caused the temporary decline in hummingbird visits.
You didn't say if the feeder has any or much red on it. As a photographer who works in campsites in Madera Canyon and Cave Creek Arizona, I'm VERY competitive with other photographers and their feeders. I think that I get an advantage in shadier campsites, for example. I also have used red "fake" stained glass paint, obtained from a hobby shop, to paint the outside of the clear glass in my hummingbird feeders. I feel that this may give me an "edge" in attracting hummers. Another photographer I know hangs about a half dozen red plastic disposable cups in nearby trees to lure the birds into range.

It could be that your birds "assumed" that your feeder was empty because they were used to seeing more red (nectar), and it took them a while to discover that it was, indeed, stocked. Hummingbirds adapt very quickly to changes in nectar production in flowers, for example, and perhaps this is a variation of that sort of short-term behavorial adaptation.

My guess that using a decreasing mix of red nectar and clear nectar would have gradually made the transition from red to clear with no decrease in hummingbird activity.

At home, I have plenty of red hummer flowers, and use more feeders each with red at the feeder port. It seem to make no significant difference which feeders I use. A further note: I cut all the perches off of my hummer feeders. The birds don't need them, and as a photographer, I'd prefer to get a shot with little or no hummer feeder in the photo.


Greg:
While they still had color on them, I have seen times when a feeder that did not have a spot of red on it has been attended as well or better than nearby feeders that were red. I think the important thing, as you imply, is color, not necessarily red. If there were not color on his feeder though, I would sure like to know where he got it and what the manufacturer was thinking. Generally they tend to try to give us all the "eye candy" possible to sell the things.