They are gettin BRAVE

[Cris]

WOW why is the smallest bird one of the most brave? I went out to the feeder to check for ants and i hear hummmmm sure enough a hummer not 12 inches away from my face. after that i brought a chair outside and a few minutes later hummmmm but this time it wasnt at the feeder IT WAS TRYING TO LAND ON MY HEAD it was so close i could feel its wings touch my hair that is COOL. Do they do that to anyone else??? Why are they so interested in people???

COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL :h?: :bounce:

[crispycreme]

If it was checking out your head, it might be interested in your hair for potential nesting material (assuming you have hair, of course).

[crickieheather]

::sigh:: I still have no hummers, and mine were never that brave last year. Even 3 feet away, walking up to the window would scare them off. The nesting material comment is quite funny. I wonder if they'd actually use hair if you left some outside.

[Katy Penland]

LOL @ Matt!

Cris, they're among the feistiest little birds you'll ever encounter. If I wear clothing with flowers printed on it, they'll hummm over and check 'em out. When I take a feeder down to refill, I always have to gently shoo off at least one or two perchers who won't get off even after lifting it off the hook. In mid-summer, after all of them have gotten used to being around humans, we can walk out the back sliding glass door (where the 2 of the 3 feeders are located) and not a single bird will fly away.

Having said all that, do you think I can get a decent close-up shot of any of these guys? ;)

[crickieheather]

LOL @ Matt!

Cris, they're among the feistiest little birds you'll ever encounter. If I wear clothing with flowers printed on it, they'll hummm over and check 'em out. When I take a feeder down to refill, I always have to gently shoo off at least one or two perchers who won't get off even after lifting it off the hook. In mid-summer, after all of them have gotten used to being around humans, we can walk out the back sliding glass door (where the 2 of the 3 feeders are located) and not a single bird will fly away.

Having said all that, do you think I can get a decent close-up shot of any of these guys? ;)

The only way I can eve get a decent close-up shot of them is with a remote camera cord. They seem to be scared of the sounds the camera makes when focusing. I'd love to see some of your pictures!

[Cris]

NESTING MATERIAL Ha that might hurt a little. I'm gonna put some stuff out for them to make nests later. Are they going to get braver as they get used to me sitting out there?

COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL

[cfagyal]

Having said all that, do you think I can get a decent close-up shot of any of these guys? ;)
Getting good shots of hummingbirds, if you want to do it "right" requires equipment..but not a lot of work really.

1) Set up a feeder with no perches, and only one feeding hole (So that you know precisely where the bird will go and where it will hover, since it has to hover.
2) set up 3-5 flashes 1-2 feet away from the feeder pointing at different areas of the bird (the gorget, the top of the wings, the backgorund, etc), set those flashes as slave, set the flash on your camera as the master, set it to 1/16th or 1/32nd power
3) Sit about 8 feet or so away with a 300mm lens, pre-focus the lens on the spot where the hummingbird will be hovering (I generally just use autofocus, and focus on the feeder itself, and then move the camera 6 inches to the left/right on the tripod so that the feeder is a centimeter or less out of the frame), and wait :)

I'd say this is the most fun activity i've ever done in Ecuador and I can't wait to go do it again. Some day I need to do the same in Costa Rica, and Arizona, and some places in Brazil as well :)

[humminbird]

I get some excellent (published) shots with a Nikon Coolpix, a 125 mm lense, just the camera flash, from as much as 30 feet away. Fancy equipment is NOT necessary.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[cfagyal]

I get some excellent (published) shots with a Nikon Coolpix, a 125 mm lense, just the camera flash, from as much as 30 feet away. Fancy equipment is NOT necessary.

Mark
Bastrop, TXNone of what I mentioned is "fancy", but if you want to stop the wings of hummingbirds that fly at 60-100 beats per second, better equipment than you mentioned *is* absolutely necessary. No matter what you do, you won't stop the wings with that setup. The camera, nor the flash, especially an comes-with-the-camera flash, is not powerful enough nor are the shutter speeds fast enough. No trying to be harsh, just realistic...When you get down to technicals there are necessities for certain types of photos. It takes roughly 1/6000th of a second shutter speed to completely stop the wings in motion of a hummingbird. This is only achievable using better quality flashes which can be set to manual powers, and setting that manual power to about 1/16th power. This gives you a shutter speed of about 1/6000th of a second. Some smaller hummers require even faster speeds, upwards of 1/10000th of a second or faster, in which case you need 1/32nd power and potentially more flashes due to the reduced output of the flash. On a Canon 580EX, 1/32nd power only throws light about 18-24 inches.

See my competition entry, or some of the images in my gallery for examples. There is quite a difference between a blurred point and shoot shot and a 4 or 5 flash shot taken with a top notch lens. Just the optical quality differences between a Canon or Nikon SLR lens and a point and shoot lens like on a Nikon Coolpix makes a staggering difference. The resolution resolving power of a SLR lens such as the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM that I used for most of my shots is about 82 lp/mm (lines per millimeter). The resolving power of any point and shoot lens is at least half or that or more likely a lot ess than half of that. I was solely trying to give some information to Katy on how I took my shots :)

Cheers,

[crickieheather]

None of what I mentioned is "fancy", but if you want to stop the wings of hummingbirds that fly at 60-100 beats per second, better equipment than you mentioned *is* absolutely necessary. No matter what you do, you won't stop the wings with that setup. The camera, nor the flash, especially an comes-with-the-camera flash, is not powerful enough nor are the shutter speeds fast enough. No trying to be harsh, just realistic...When you get down to technicals there are necessities for certain types of photos. It takes roughly 1/6000th of a second shutter speed to completely stop the wings in motion of a hummingbird. This is only achievable using better quality flashes which can be set to manual powers, and setting that manual power to about 1/16th power. This gives you a shutter speed of about 1/6000th of a second. Some smaller hummers require even faster speeds, upwards of 1/10000th of a second or faster, in which case you need 1/32nd power and potentially more flashes due to the reduced output of the flash. On a Canon 580EX, 1/32nd power only throws light about 18-24 inches.

See my competition entry, or some of the images in my gallery for examples. There is quite a difference between a blurred point and shoot shot and a 4 or 5 flash shot taken with a top notch lens. Just the optical quality differences between a Canon or Nikon SLR lens and a point and shoot lens like on a Nikon Coolpix makes a staggering difference. The resolution resolving power of a SLR lens such as the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM that I used for most of my shots is about 82 lp/mm (lines per millimeter). The resolving power of any point and shoot lens is at least half or that or more likely a lot ess than half of that. I was solely trying to give some information to Katy on how I took my shots :)

Cheers,


Totally not true. The picture below was taken with a tiny Canon Powershot s400. It's a point-and-shoot the size of a deck of cards, and it sells these days for about $200. Nothing fancy in the setup either. I actually had it suspended from the same eave that the feeder is hung from, then just triggered it from inside with a remote capture program on my computer. I had the macro setting on and the flash on. It's all automatic with that camera. No fancy lenses, no fancy flash bulbs.

[cfagyal]

Totally not true. The picture below was taken with a tiny Canon Powershot s400. It's a point-and-shoot the size of a deck of cards, and it sells these days for about $200. Nothing fancy in the setup either. I actually had it suspended from the same eave that the feeder is hung from, then just triggered it from inside with a remote capture program on my computer. I had the macro setting on and the flash on. It's all automatic with that camera. No fancy lenses, no fancy flash bulbs.Not to be too harsh, but the bill isn't sharp, the eye isn't sharp, the wing's aren't fully stopped, the tail isn't sharp, and the shot overall is rather grainy and vignetted. There is quite a difference. Try printing that shot as a 16x20 like I have done with my hummingbird shots....Heck, try even printing a crystal clear "sellable" 8x10 or 5x7...neither of which is possible, as there is so much grain in the small web-sized image, that blown up at all the image would be irrevocably harmed. By the way, 8x10 = 2400x3000, 16x20 = 4800x6000.

If it produces what you want, that is fine, but I'm trying to make crystal clear is the distinction, as there is a marked distincition between quality camera gear which can produce shots which can be printed easily at 11x14, 13x19 and even 16x20 or 20x24 sizes, and point and shoot shots with cheap equipment which produces grainy, blurred, unsharp images. Making the statement "I can get GREAT shots with this 200$ point and shoot camera" really isn't a very truthful statement, unless your definition of GREAT is markedly different than mine. My definition of GREAT would be perfect clarity and sharpness throughout the bird from bill to tip of tail. Exquisite feather detail throughout. Minimal to zero grain in the image. Absolutely no hand-of-man (ie the feeder) in the image. Good lighting. Good background that isn't busy unless necessary or required by the subject (ie shooting antpittas, you will necessarily have a lot of habitat). GREAT does not mean "I was able to get an image of the bird".

And i'm sorry, but there is ABSOLUTELY nothing "fancy" about any of the gear I mentioned. I might concede that a Phase One P25 is a "fancy" camera...but a digital SLR, a few flashes, and a 1000$ lens isn't "Fancy".

[wings]

You also need good weather, Chris. Rain cancels.

[cfagyal]

You also need good weather, Chris. Rain cancels.Yes rain would cause a problem. Overcast sky however is better than sunny conditions given the information i've provided, as then you don't need to deal with ambient light as well as flash. It is much easier to do multi-strobe hummingbird photography with flash as main light without having to deal with changing ambient light.

[humminbird]

Great shot considering the weather crickiefeather. IMHO, I have photos taken by myself and others on cameras using ONLY come with the camera photos that are sharper, clearer and fully frozen wings than on many I have seen with the multiflash set ups. Of course as I say, this is my OPINION. If you have the money to spend on a fancy (yes in my opinion what Chris describes is a fancy setup - again, my opinion) then that is great. Many can not do so and to frustrate them by saying they will not be able to get good shots is in my OPINION inacurate, untrue and unnecessary.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[cfagyal]

Great shot considering the weather crickiefeather. IMHO, I have photos taken by myself and others on cameras using ONLY come with the camera photos that are sharper, clearer and fully frozen wings than on many I have seen with the multiflash set ups. Of course as I say, this is my OPINION. If you have the money to spend on a fancy (yes in my opinion what Chris describes is a fancy setup - again, my opinion) then that is great. Many can not do so and to frustrate them by saying they will not be able to get good shots is in my OPINION inacurate, untrue and unnecessary.

Mark
Bastrop, TXMark,

Anything can be done incorrectly. I've seen plenty of professional setups such as i've described that don't always produce great results, as a result of using incorrect flash settings, or having problems with ambient light or whatever. All I was saying, is for professional quality images that stand up well to printing at large sizes (13x19, 16x20, 20x24 etc.), it requires good equipment. Keep in mind, most, if not all, point and shoot digital cameras don't have a Raw mode, and shooting in JPEG, even JPEG fine immediately loses you 4 pixels for every 1 in the image, so you are automatically degrading the quality of your image dramatically before you even get to post-shot processing on the computer using Photoshop. To take average web-sized photographs with average results, one can use much less pricey equipment. To each their own. I certainly don't have the quality of gear as some (I don't own a 500mm or 600mm lens, nor a 300mm f/2.8), but I do have a decent setup, and I have spent a significant amount of money over the last several years on camera equipment. But I have extremely high standards for what I view as acceptable. I probably throw 90% of what I shoot away, and out of the 5000+ images (or more, I never have counted) i've stored on my external HD, I could probably count under 25 images i'd consider "great", where everything truly came together to produce an exceptional image. Everything else is "good", "average" or "ok"...though most "average" and "ok" shots get deleted eventually.

[humminbird]

I agree with you entirely Chris. I do not want to use anything less than a good quality image unless I absolutely have to. And my employment requires displaying hummingbird images daily.
Yes, the equipment I am using does have a RAW option, but I hardly ever use it. I never require anything larger than a 3.5 X 5 image in good quality though.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[crickieheather]

Since I don't publish my shots, I'm happy with what I get. For a college student, a $3000 - $5000 camera setup IS fancy. My car isn't even worth that. I had to save for quite a while to buy the $400 one I have, so I'm pretty darn pleased with the output.

[cfagyal]

Since I don't publish my shots, I'm happy with what I get. For a college student, a $3000 - $5000 camera setup IS fancy. My car isn't even worth that. I had to save for quite a while to buy the $400 one I have, so I'm pretty darn pleased with the output.
I was in the same exact situation in college myself. I can truly sympathize. I didn't even have a 400$ camera in college...I didn't really start being able to save up for the gear I have until the last 3 or 4 years...and i've been out of college for 8 years now..

[Articuno]

I noticed all the smallest birds seem to be quite tame!! Over here the smallest is the Goldcrest. You can get incredibly close to them before they decide to fly off. But it's actualy finding them that's the trouble, I'd love to get a photo of one since they allow us to get so close. As for humming birds, my partner told me he found one on the road and he actually picked it up to move it to saftey, amazingly enough, it wasn't hurt, it just hummed off afterwards!

[humminbird]

None of what I mentioned is "fancy", but if you want to stop the wings of hummingbirds that fly at 60-100 beats per second, better equipment than you mentioned *is* absolutely necessary. No matter what you do, you won't stop the wings with that setup. The camera, nor the flash, especially an comes-with-the-camera flash, is not powerful enough nor are the shutter speeds fast enough. No trying to be harsh, just realistic...When you get down to technicals there are necessities for certain types of photos. It takes roughly 1/6000th of a second shutter speed to completely stop the wings in motion of a hummingbird. This is only achievable using better quality flashes which can be set to manual powers, and setting that manual power to about 1/16th power. This gives you a shutter speed of about 1/6000th of a second. Some smaller hummers require even faster speeds, upwards of 1/10000th of a second or faster, in which case you need 1/32nd power and potentially more flashes due to the reduced output of the flash. On a Canon 580EX, 1/32nd power only throws light about 18-24 inches.

See my competition entry, or some of the images in my gallery for examples. There is quite a difference between a blurred point and shoot shot and a 4 or 5 flash shot taken with a top notch lens. Just the optical quality differences between a Canon or Nikon SLR lens and a point and shoot lens like on a Nikon Coolpix makes a staggering difference. The resolution resolving power of a SLR lens such as the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM that I used for most of my shots is about 82 lp/mm (lines per millimeter). The resolving power of any point and shoot lens is at least half or that or more likely a lot ess than half of that. I was solely trying to give some information to Katy on how I took my shots :)

Cheers,
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/905804/Black-chinnedMaleDMSP.jpg

Chris:
Taken this weekend in Davis Mountains State Park with ABSOLUTELY NO FLASH.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[krazyhorse]

Ours will get quite close , so much they will ladn in my hands to eat off of the feeders or land on my shoulder or hat now and then while i am photographing other birds, they have quite a built in curiousity, last year my son had one actually fall asleep in his hand, now this is uncommon but was cute he didnt kow what to do and was like dad can i wake it up my hand is getting tired, my wife and i have both also held them , sometimes when they perch on your hands they get sleepy I do not know why maybe body temp, but is was and will be an experiance we as a family will cherish and remember always

[NOTthePileated!]

Theyre brave because they are quick as lightning! I remember at my granmothers...she had sat down on the porch with a gown on that had flowers all over it. One flew up to her right up to her midsection checking her out. she was like...what was that ol thang trying to do...you reckon it was gonna sting me....try to bite me...She didnt know if it was a bee or what. I told her they're attracted to the flowers on her gown...we both had a good laugh.
Did anyone ever see the guy on t.v. with the feeders in his trailor. He lived out in like Arizona or something. THey would come right in and feed. Like six at a time in his house! And he would put the solution in his mouth and hold a little fake flower on his lips and they would come up and drink from his mouth. Not the best for hygene for either, but still awesome! This was on a Public broadcast channel, or either discover. Cant remember, but i saw it. Crazy.

[Birdee]

When my husband and I lived in the country, we would often get accidentally "dive-bombed" by the ruby throated hummingbirds. He was wearing a red shirt one day and had one run right into him! It bounced off his chest, hovered for a second, and then took off!

They make the cutest little sounds when they fight with each other at the feeders!

[tugboatphil]

Cris,

Last summer I was hanging one of our feeders. It's a weeping mulberry tree right outside the kitchen window. The tree is pruned to have an umbrella effect when the leaves are on, so they like it for the protection.

Anyway, before I could get it hung up, there were 2 of them trying to land. We have about 8 or 9 during the peak times of summer. So I stood there holding the feeder, next to where it usually hangs. They started landing on the foot pegs and feeding. I had my step daughter go out and do the same thing. We got some grainy video of it on my digital camera.

Edit - I forgot, I think it's Perkys Pets Co. makes an insecticide barrier. It's a bell shaped plastic deal that hangs on the branch, and your feeder hangs under it. We used them last year and they work great!! Before, I would ring the base of the feeder pole with Diazinon and clear away branches that would touch it. I tried spraying Pam on the pole, but nothing worked as good as these. When I find it in the store, I'll post the correct name and such.

[humminbird]

[QUOTE=tugboatphil]Cris,

Last summer I was hanging one of our feeders. It's a weeping mulberry tree right outside the kitchen window. The tree is pruned to have an umbrella effect when the leaves are on, so they like it for the protection.

Interesting. Every site I have ever been at that has good numbers of hummingbirds (I am talking hundreds or multiples thereof) has the feeders in the open - separate and apart from the shelter which is vital to these birds. Sorry, but when I see people who are running 150 feeders with so many birds I can not hear myself think tell me to keep the feeders in the open - NOT under trees - that is what I will do.


Mark
Bastrop, TX

[tugboatphil]

Gosh, it never even occurred to us that it might not be a good spot. We just put it out and they went right to it. We also have one that is below the level of the top of our rhododendron bush. It's kind of in a bowl area. The females like it a lot, as they can kind of hide in there while the males are battling for turf.

Here's the item I previously mentioned for keeping ants off. Sorry, but my "Green Stamp" camera doesn't have very good resolution for close ups. It is made by Perky Pets.

[humminbird]

Gosh, it never even occurred to us that it might not be a good spot. We just put it out and they went right to it. We also have one that is below the level of the top of our rhododendron bush. It's kind of in a bowl area. The females like it a lot, as they can kind of hide in there while the males are battling for turf.

Here's the item I previously mentioned for keeping ants off. Sorry, but my "Green Stamp" camera doesn't have very good resolution for close ups. It is made by Perky Pets.


Sorry. Didn't mean to jump all over you. All of the indications I am getting in my work point toward keeping feeders and, as much as possible feed plants, in the open where these birds can see them easily and, more importantly, where they can see avian predators easily and get out of the way. I have three feeders active right now - one under shade and two in the open. Today I walked right up to the one under shade and startled a little male on it. I don't know who was surprised more - he or I , since there is "never" a bird on that feeder. The others are in use all the time.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

[crickieheather]

Sorry. Didn't mean to jump all over you. All of the indications I am getting in my work point toward keeping feeders and, as much as possible feed plants, in the open where these birds can see them easily and, more importantly, where they can see avian predators easily and get out of the way. I have three feeders active right now - one under shade and two in the open. Today I walked right up to the one under shade and startled a little male on it. I don't know who was surprised more - he or I , since there is "never" a bird on that feeder. The others are in use all the time.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

I have three feeders. and just a week ago, finally got some hummers coming. There are three female ruby throats. One feeder is out in the sun (NE side), one is window mounted (SW side), and the third is one of those glass hanging feeders hanging under the eaves of my apartment (NE side also). One female prefers to use the one in the sun, one of them likes the window mounted one, and a third likes the red glass one. Only one of the three feeders is actually out in the open. The window mounted and the glass one have a limited, if any, view of the sky. I have even seen the NE female at the SW feeder.

[wings]

WOW why is the smallest bird one of the most brave? I went out to the feeder to check for ants and i hear hummmmm sure enough a hummer not 12 inches away from my face. after that i brought a chair outside and a few minutes later hummmmm but this time it wasnt at the feeder IT WAS TRYING TO LAND ON MY HEAD it was so close i could feel its wings touch my hair that is COOL. Do they do that to anyone else??? Why are they so interested in people???

COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL :h?: :bounce:
________

Indeed they can be brave. They've buzzed me when I watered my backyard plants. Probably wanted a spritz bath. Anyway, I just got back from the "hummingbird capital of the world" (SE Arizona). Here are some pics.
Photo 1: Black-chinned hummer.
Photo 2: Broad-billed hummer
Photo 3: Broad-billed hummer

[cfagyal]

________

Indeed they can be brave. They've buzzed me when I watered my backyard plants. Probably wanted a spritz bath. Anyway, I just got back from the "hummingbird capital of the world" (SE Arizona). Here are some pics.
Photo 1: Black-chinned hummer.
Photo 2: Broad-billed hummer
Photo 3: Broad-billed hummer
Wings: I would claim that the hummingbird capital of the world is Tandayapa in Ecuador, where you can see more species in 15 minutes at their feeders than have ever occured in Arizona :) I had 17 species in 15 minutes there last September and 20ish species for the 4 days I was there. Add to that the ones I saw at Yanacocha and Guango and Bellavista and I believe I got 30-35 in my week in Ecuador...pretty spectacular place..so much so i'm going back for a 3rd time in November.

Arizona is defintiely the hummer capital of the US though :)

[Katy Penland]

Chris, sorry to be so late rejoining the discussion, but thanks sooooo much for all the technical detail on your photographic set-up. I've already copied your posts and filed them away for a day when I can take the time to do some serious shooting. Most of what I shoot, especially in the yard, is opportunistic and for documenting species -- i.e., totally utilitarian, not an ounce of artistry to be found. LOL! But as I say, one of these days... :t: