FZ20, indeed not a great choice ;)

[ssemone]

I've been on the quest for various methods to get more reach with my FZ20. Come join me!

So step one was get my hands on a Minolta ACT-100. Works like a champ. A bit of chroma if I blow exposures and/or high contrast situations, but all in all good for briding out to about 30-40 feet. As an aside, and I may start another thread elsewhere on this later, has anyone noticed a reduction in CA when turing OIS off? Some prelim tests of mine show that. If I get more time I'll post some samples.

Okay, back to the chase. So I got my hands on a moonfish group (great people over there at Moonfishgroup.com) 30mm eyepiece. This has a 49mm thread, which, I was able to thread my adpator tube onto. Hook that up to my refracting telescope and ... very little vignetting..however... no joy at anything over 1x. :(

Basically, I believe the issue is related to the way the FZ20 zooms. While the outer lense is stationary internal to that the lense moves futher away from the eyepiece the more you zoom. At anything over 2x you just get all vingetting and a big blurry mess as the eye relief becomes to great.

So indeed, while I solved, through the use of the moonfish group eyepiece (one could likely also use the DCL-52 from Williams Optics), the issue wrt vignetting, the way in which the FZ20 zooms basically prevents it from being a platform for digiscoping.

Any hints or suggestions otherwise (hehe, Sean, get yourself a Contax and be done with it! ;) ) gladly accepted.

So this brings me to other options for extending the FZ20. There are a couple options as I understand it:

1) Get a bike and get close to my subjects (hehe, I stole that line from a fellow over at dpreview ; )

2) Olympus TCON-300. Requires some custom mounting work. I think there was someone working on those some time ago.

3) Catadioptric lens. These are things like this...
http://people.freenet.de/server.alpha/fz20-144x-1.jpg

and these links too:
http://home.att.net/~infraredvideo/ir_video_000002.htm
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/canon_cameras_lenses.htm

What I am not sure about, other than the likely poor results I may get from these is which among them are intended to work as teleconverters or as lenses attached directly to the body of an SLR.


this also crossposted at dpreview. anything good turns up there you can check it out at:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=13045788

[Henry B]

Sean ,there is an other thread on the Fz20, have you seen it ?

[ssemone]

Sean ,there is an other thread on the Fz20, have you seen it ?

Indeed there is, if mine can/should be subsumed by that thread all the better, I think. I just didn't want to hijack their conversation with mine. :)

Cheers,

Sean

[wdkwild]

Hi Sean, I am trying to do just that, find a good TC for my new FZ20. Can you please tell me what lens is shown on your link :
http://people.freenet.de/server.alpha/fz20-144x-1.jpg ?
I was thinking I would buy an Olympus TCON-17 or Olympus TCON-14B but for one thing wonder if I would get same or better results by shooting 12x 432mm and crop. There must be some compromise in quality using other than the Panasonic TC (way, way too much $). Also I was looking at the Olympus TCON300 but don't want to customize if I don't have to. Thanks for any help you can provide. Bill

[IanF]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to Bird Forum :t:

I use the FZ20 as well. I combine it with the Tcon-17 1.7x converter though you do need an adapter to mount it properly. For a bit more reach I add the Tcon-14 in tandem but that does need a bit of DIY to cement a filter holder to the front of the lens so the Tcon-17 can be mounted.

More reach does equal poorer quality and the need for cropping to remove slight vignetting but sometimes you get shots that wouldn't be otherwise obtainable.

In the right circumstances the Tcon-17 works very well, by which I mean the sun behind you as in this shot - Red Grouse (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49749&nocache=1)

If the light is in front of you then CA can be a problem.

[Keith Reeder]

I agree with every one of Ian's words (it's mainly because of Ian that I own an FZ20 + Tcon17).

I'm still getting to grips with the combo, but the potential is (I think) pretty obvious in the pics I've attached - taken from about 30 feet away.

I know they're "only" swans, but I think that the quality of the image available from the camera + teleconvertor is indicated.

To join them up I bought a PA55H adaptor from http://www.pemaraal.com/fz10ac.html.

[Stuart R]

I agree with every one of Ian's words (it's mainly because of Ian that I own an FZ20 + Tcon17).

I'm still getting to grips with the combo, but the potential is (I think) pretty obvious in the pics I've attached - taken from about 30 feet away.

I know they're "only" swans, but I think that the quality of the image available from the camera + teleconvertor is indicated.

To join them up I bought a PA55H adaptor from http://www.pemaraal.com/fz10ac.html.


Hi Keith

Do the combinations and setups you are talking about work/fit the smaller and newer FZ5?

Cheers


Stuart R

[Henry B]

Stuart, if you go to www.stevesdigicams scroll to panasomic lots of info their..

[Henry B]

I mean panasonic,,oops.

[Keith Reeder]

Hi Stuart,

I'm not really sure.

I'm not familiar with the FZ5, and although Panasonic's own site suggest that add-on lenses aren't an option, I do note from DPReview etc. that "3rd party" solutions are available.

Hi Henry, the link should read http://www.steves-digicams.com.

[Henry B]

Your quite right Keith, I,m still undecided which to go for the fz5 or oly c765 any hints would be welcome hb.

[Keith Reeder]

I'd love to help Henry, but my experience of digital cameras is limited to the Fuji S3000, Canon A95 and the Panasonic.

I am really taken by the FZ20, and if the FZ5 was on a par I'd say you were onto a very good thing: but I note that the FZ5 doesn't have ED glass in the lens assembly, unlike the FZ20.

I've no idea how critical that is in practice - the test pics I've seen of the FZ5 have been excellent - but it might be more important if adding a teleconvertor is a priority.

And I've no idea of how the Oly performs - things like start-up speed, shutter lag, metering and mode options, auto-focussing speed, continuous shooting performance and whatnot - but I can say that I'm happy with how the Panasonic implements all of these things with the FZ20.

Best of luck with the decision.

[wdkwild]

Hi Ian, thanks for the welcome and thanks to all others posting on this issue. Your photo is impressive. I have been and still am sick so took a while to get back here. I still would like to know what lens was (link not longer shows jpeg) shown and talked about
http://people.freenet.de/server.alpha/fz20-144x-1.jpg , some type of Catadioptric Lens. Beside that I am impressed witht the shots with the Oly tcon 17 but for some reason believe the tcon 14b may be a better choice for me on my FZ20. I assume both arte good and both work. It would be nice to have the extra 100mm. The glass on the 14b looks larger so more light? I shoot birds but also other wildlife where I would love to have something like 1300mm.

[wdkwild]

Hi Keith

Do the combinations and setups you are talking about work/fit the smaller and newer FZ5?

Cheers


Stuart R


Hi Stuart, I just purchased my FZ20 recently after thinking about the FZ5. Panasonic states that the FZ5 does not have the same internal (?) process to use a TC that the FZ20 does have. Since I have not purchased a TC yet don't even know how it works with mine as far as some setting to use TC. I looked at the 5 but can't remember if it has enough treads to mount a TC safely. I will attempt to find some kind of bracket when I do get a TC for my 20. Pahasonic, of course, selld one for their FZ20/TC combo.

[wdkwild]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to Bird Forum :t:

I use the FZ20 as well. I combine it with the Tcon-17 1.7x converter though you do need an adapter to mount it properly. For a bit more reach I add the Tcon-14 in tandem but that does need a bit of DIY to cement a filter holder to the front of the lens so the Tcon-17 can be mounted.

More reach does equal poorer quality and the need for cropping to remove slight vignetting but sometimes you get shots that wouldn't be otherwise obtainable.

In the right circumstances the Tcon-17 works very well, by which I mean the sun behind you as in this shot - Red Grouse (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49749&nocache=1)

If the light is in front of you then CA can be a problem.

I am still not sure which is better to use alone, TCON 17 vs. TCON 14b. From another site "The reports show that tcon17 got light fall off at maximum zoom... and the chart say tcon14b is better than tcon 17...?? "
Conversion lens compatibility list
http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/compati/di000390e.cfm#renz1

Just found this applied to FZ10:
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/FZ-10/Converters/Lenses/Telephoto.html

With this TCON-14B, you can zoom the camera lens to about 3X without getting vignetting. This is an advantage if you do not wish to remove the converter lens frequently. At 3X, the actual focal length is 152.25mm = 35mm×3×1.45. Hence, there is no focal length gap with this TCON-14B. In other word, you have the coverage from 35mm to 609mm!

Note that this TCON-17 does have light fall-off. The following image shows the light fall-off at the corners of TCON-17. The on-camera lens is at 420mm and the combined focal length is 714mm. This is a major disadvantage of using the TCON-17.

[Keith Reeder]

Hi Wdkwild,

this "internal process" in the FZ20 is a menu option which tells the camera you're using a convertor.

Frankly, it seems to make not one bit of difference to image quality whether it's selected or not: it simply changes the zoom indicator display from 1x - 12x, to 6x - 12x (IIRC).

I leave it off on my camera when I've got the Tcon 17 in place without detriment.

[IanF]

As Keith says I likewise don't adjust camera settings when using the Tcon17/B300.

I'm afraid I have never tried the Tcon14B, just the Tcon14 both of which are of course 1.45x converters whereas the Tcon17/B300 are 1.7x converters.

Even at 12x zoom there is slight vignetting but I find occasions are few and far between that a bird fills the frame so there is always some scope for cropping the vignetting. As to how pronounced the vigneting also depends on camera settings, primarily aperture. It's nice to close down the lens a bit to gain more depth of field, but doing so makes vignetting more apparent.

Using a converter also causes softening of the image and loss of some detail, which isn't too bad using the Tcon17, but is still noticeable comapred to the lens alone.

I'd say it was worth giving the Tcon14B a go, the Sony HGD1758 is the one I'm more familiar with that people use with the FZ10 and FZ20 as an alternative to the Tcon17. It seems to be a marginally better lens.

[Keith Reeder]

Yep,

the vignetting is there, but by no stretch of the imagination would I ever call it "a major disadvantage of using the TCON-17" - and in fact it's usually only visible at all (in my experience) when the shot is against a clear sky.

And when I was using it in a (brightly lit) wooded area recently, I was getting faster shutter speeds with the Tcon on than I was with it off, shooting the same subject (on auto) - would this not mean that the Tcon was allowing more light in than the camera lens itself?

[IanF]

I find the same. The Tcon17 has very good light gathering powers and doesn't hinder exposure times at all.

If you use the camera set to 'P' then the lens stays wide open at f2,8 even at 12x and there is very little in the way of vignetting. If however you use the camera on the 'A' setting then the camera defaults to f8 which is good for depth of field but with the Tcon17 fitted the vignetting is more noticeable, though still only slight, mainly so when downloading the images to the computer.

It's a great piece of glass for the money and a lens I'm still happy with - in fact it never comes off the camera!